Spark1111 Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 After a difficult childhood, I became a devotee to counseling. It helped me recognize my triggers, my weaknesses and my strengths. I feel I successfully overcame my childhood insecurities and grew into the strongest adult I could be emotionally. Occasionally, when I knew I needed it, I'd go in for a "tune-up." Since DDAy, I and my WS have BOTH been in IC and MC, he for the first time, and it is a huge help in sorting out ourselves and our relationship. With all the pain expressed in this forum, I was wondering if anyone has sought professional guidance for their situation? And....if not too personal, what does the counselor encourage? Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted November 15, 2009 Share Posted November 15, 2009 With all the pain expressed in this forum, I was wondering if anyone has sought professional guidance for their situation? And....if not too personal, what does the counselor encourage? My H went to IC. He was encouraged to "allow" himself his own needs, wants and desires, and to stop putting everyone else first all the time. He was encouraged to explore what HE wanted, and how he could best get that by making decisions and choices that considered HIMSELF as well as everyone else. He was encouraged to be true to himself and his values, and to choose a life and a partner that best reflected those values. Family counselling was more directive. He was encouraged to dump the BW and build a "real" family for his kids, with someone he could love and who loved him back. It's what his friends had been telling him for years... Link to post Share on other sites
wheelwright Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I have liked your posts up till now. But I have to wonder what you hope to hear from OW from this question? I did a little IC after xMM went to work on his marriage. I was steered to look for reasons I had the A in my deeper history. It was painful and helpful to look at these issues. But it never explained to me why I fell so in love. Can love be unravelled in counselling? I doubt it. Only an assessment of someone's values and childhood issues can be. And these may well cloud the whole heartbreaking scenario. I have to look at the A now as a huge crisis that forced me and xMM to address our issues. But I still feel in my soul it was about love, and circumstances, cowardice, and other factors lead us here. However, having to deal with and hopefully heal my issues is a consolation prize. Therapy might be no more than consolation and healing for losing what matters to us and reconciling with our less than perfect lives. I am in an ambivalent state to a degree. Because counselling is what led my xMM to throw me under the bus. And I hope this will bring him true healing. But I also feel that he gave away so much (not just me). Counselling (not all counsellors) upholds society's values, and these value marriage. The question is, are affairs destructive or liberating? What do you think? Link to post Share on other sites
Jaspe_Loco Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I recently began marriage counseling. I only did it because my attorney suggested I give it a try to keep up appearances in the event my W want to fight and because my wife begged me to try one more time... to keep an open mind. In my 4 counseling sessions with a very patient and understanding counselor, I have discovered that it was probably the worst thing I could do. I discovered that my resent for my wife wasn't for the affairs and the betrayal, it was because she essentially stole the last 17 years of my life and I can never get it back. She did every thing she could to tear me down to the point she was the center of my life only to betray me over and over again.... and not only with affairs. A guess in a way, the counseling has been good for me even though it has not produced the intended result. At least I know the real source of my resentment. Link to post Share on other sites
MizzBlue72 Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 My ExH and I went to MC. The counselor stated we had many problems to work on, and my ExH didn't want to work on it. He had many issues HE needed to work on in IC that he refused to go to. I did go to IC. It helped a lot - just not in the case of the A. I told the IC about the A. She told me flat out that everything he told me is a lie, and to end it, just as my friends have told me, and tell me to this day. I have tried to go NC many many times over the last year, and I always fail. It's NOT that I can't date someone else. Problem is, I don't want to!! I hold the MM up on this golden pedestal, and no person I meet even holds a candle to him. I know - complete WARPED sense of relationship, self, you name it -- yeah. I ended up firing my IC over the A. She and I came to the conclusion that she could not help me any longer if I would not listen to reason. Some times I wonder if I should have stuck with the counselor ... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Spark1111 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 My H went to IC. He was encouraged to "allow" himself his own needs, wants and desires, and to stop putting everyone else first all the time. He was encouraged to explore what HE wanted, and how he could best get that by making decisions and choices that considered HIMSELF as well as everyone else. He was encouraged to be true to himself and his values, and to choose a life and a partner that best reflected those values. Family counselling was more directive. He was encouraged to dump the BW and build a "real" family for his kids, with someone he could love and who loved him back. It's what his friends had been telling him for years... I am happy to hear he found empowerment to make difficult choices that would allow him and his children greater happiness. I, better than most, know the courage that step takes. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Spark1111 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 I have liked your posts up till now. But I have to wonder what you hope to hear from OW from this question? I did a little IC after xMM went to work on his marriage. I was steered to look for reasons I had the A in my deeper history. It was painful and helpful to look at these issues. But it never explained to me why I fell so in love. Can love be unravelled in counselling? I doubt it. Only an assessment of someone's values and childhood issues can be. And these may well cloud the whole heartbreaking scenario. I have to look at the A now as a huge crisis that forced me and xMM to address our issues. But I still feel in my soul it was about love, and circumstances, cowardice, and other factors lead us here. However, having to deal with and hopefully heal my issues is a consolation prize. Therapy might be no more than consolation and healing for losing what matters to us and reconciling with our less than perfect lives. I am in an ambivalent state to a degree. Because counselling is what led my xMM to throw me under the bus. And I hope this will bring him true healing. But I also feel that he gave away so much (not just me). Counselling (not all counsellors) upholds society's values, and these value marriage. The question is, are affairs destructive or liberating? What do you think? Thank you for your honesty, and it is a great question you pose. No, counselling cannot cure a broken heart....I agree. I think the affair identifies unmet needs, most definitely. I think an affair can be a huge diversion from a long-time, suppressed unhappiness within a person who then looks to bandaid from without, i.e. --their affair partner. I have never judged others for developing deep feelings for another, and have stated so repeatedly on these boards. It is the secrecy that speaks of confusion to me, and the subsequent pain to all in the triangle when a choice has to be made. It is also the pain of waiting, waiting, waiting --sometimes for years--for a choice to be made. As for counsellors upholding family values, I disagree. Not all do or should. Good ones should be helping a client discover what is in their best interests for a happy future. Sometimes that is re-committing to the marriage, other times it is ending it. I do not understand why you would like me less for posing this question? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Spark1111 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 I recently began marriage counseling. I only did it because my attorney suggested I give it a try to keep up appearances in the event my W want to fight and because my wife begged me to try one more time... to keep an open mind. In my 4 counseling sessions with a very patient and understanding counselor, I have discovered that it was probably the worst thing I could do. I discovered that my resent for my wife wasn't for the affairs and the betrayal, it was because she essentially stole the last 17 years of my life and I can never get it back. She did every thing she could to tear me down to the point she was the center of my life only to betray me over and over again.... and not only with affairs. A guess in a way, the counseling has been good for me even though it has not produced the intended result. At least I know the real source of my resentment. Jaspe Loco, I believe knowing the real source of ANY emotion is hugely empowering and can give the necessary courage to make a real choice for a future --Your future. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Spark1111 Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 My ExH and I went to MC. The counselor stated we had many problems to work on, and my ExH didn't want to work on it. He had many issues HE needed to work on in IC that he refused to go to. I did go to IC. It helped a lot - just not in the case of the A. I told the IC about the A. She told me flat out that everything he told me is a lie, and to end it, just as my friends have told me, and tell me to this day. I have tried to go NC many many times over the last year, and I always fail. It's NOT that I can't date someone else. Problem is, I don't want to!! I hold the MM up on this golden pedestal, and no person I meet even holds a candle to him. I know - complete WARPED sense of relationship, self, you name it -- yeah. I ended up firing my IC over the A. She and I came to the conclusion that she could not help me any longer if I would not listen to reason. Some times I wonder if I should have stuck with the counselor ... Very, Very honest, Miz Blue. You are right....The counselor can lead us to water...but cannot make us drink! My own denial has hindered my growth at so many times during my life: A defense mechanism from childhood that kicks in and allows me, with my blinders on to be happy enough...for now. But when I have grown sick and tired of being sick and tired with the same outcome, over and over again....is when I have been personally been ready to do some painful self-examination and...really grow as a person. You do not have to be an OW/OM to be in a relationship that is less than satisfying....for love. It DOES TAKE TWO, working hard, to make it what I envision it could be. Link to post Share on other sites
wheelwright Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Thanks for answering. And your assessment of the problems around having an affair is to the point - pain and waiting. However, I think sometimes the AP is not a band-aid but someone who genuinely inspires love. Apparently (can't remember source sorry), the act of falling in love can reintroduce people to an emotional state where they can address and heal old wounds. From what I have read here about WSs who recommit to M, they can sometimes do this with great love and a caring about solving M problems. Without having their hearts reawakened, it may not have been possible. And I still like you. Was just a bit unsure about this thread starter to begin with. Must have touched a raw nerve. Link to post Share on other sites
justforfun Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 After a difficult childhood, I became a devotee to counseling. It helped me recognize my triggers, my weaknesses and my strengths. I feel I successfully overcame my childhood insecurities and grew into the strongest adult I could be emotionally. Just playing devil's advocate here. But, that really doesn't ring true for me. If that were truly the case then would you have started an affair? Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Just playing devil's advocate here. But, that really doesn't ring true for me. If that were truly the case then would you have started an affair? SPARK didn't start an affair. Spark's HUSBAND started an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 To be honest - I'm not a huge fan of counseling nor counselors. IMO there are very few who are worth their weight in feathers. That said - when/if you do find a good one, THEY are worth their weight in precious gems (much more valuable than gold!!) Anyway, yes, I did go to counselors, during many of my most difficult stages of life. For the most part, they were of little aid in my turmoil of the moment. I must, though, disagree with a prior statement by someone that counselors will mostly try to uphold societal "rights". A truly good counselor will NOT simply to that. They will to the best of their ability attempt to help you find the answers that will work towards your happiness. Link to post Share on other sites
wheelwright Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I agree silktricks. But the counsellor will themselves be filtering things through a set of cultural values. How many western counsellors will suggest polygamy as a way forward? It would not occur to them that this might bring happiness. And in our cultural environment it will not. So the counsellor has to rest on their judgement of what the cultural environment suggests as best. And this is their judgement. They have to factor it. I think our society on the whole values family and commitment above romantic love. So an individual questioning these values (via an A) will be gently nudged back towards society's values, which indeed they have in themselves anyway. And conforming to these values may bring someone more happiness than going against the grain. Counsellors know this. So we end up with a question; are societal values more important to happiness than romantic love? Most counsellors would think so (JMO), when discussing with a WS. I agree that they will sift some things. But the bias will remain. A lot of the time, we go to a counsellor because our personal considerations are in conflict with societal expectations. I think when we go to counselling, one main question is 'help me conform to society. I think I am failing. This causes me pain.' So the counsellor naturally helps. Whether this is right or wrong, I haven't decided yet. Probably neither. Just a reverting to grey. Link to post Share on other sites
justforfun Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 SPARK didn't start an affair. Spark's HUSBAND started an affair. Me bad I got confused with the acronyms. Help me out with them? ps. Counseling rocks. But I don't think we as unqualified can decide how the counselor will view things. Believe me, I've had more counseling than you can imagine over the years. And in no way can you judge a counselor or make assumptions about their perspective unless you go see one. They are all individuals and I have only seen maybe one or two in 20 years that may have had some sort of bias. And looking back I think it may have had something to do with my perspective. IMO, OP should shop around. Very important. And find someone she is comfortable with. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I must, though, disagree with a prior statement by someone that counselors will mostly try to uphold societal "rights". A truly good counselor will NOT simply to that. They will to the best of their ability attempt to help you find the answers that will work towards your happiness. Any GOOD counsellor will do that. That said, it also depends on where they're located. Counsellors affiliated to religious organisations are likely to conform to a religious, sanctioned line; counsellors belonging to a conservative "marriage and family society" are likely to seek to preserve the family unit at almost all cost; counsellors employed by one's organisation are likely to want to maximise your productivity and encourage you along the path the facilitate that aspect best. And then of course there are the theoretical orientations of counsellors - feminist counsellors are likely to focus on the power dynamics in a R, while client-centred counsellors will be all about feelings. CBT counsellors will want to equip you with a skillset to deal with a situation in as short a space of time as is realistically possible, while Freudian analysts will want you to lie back and talk about childhood trauma for YEARS... You have to shop around and find an approach, a setting and a counsellor that suits your particular needs at that particular time if you're to derive value from it. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Me bad I got confused with the acronyms. Help me out with them? Click on "FAQ" on the menu bar, above. The most common ones are listed there. Link to post Share on other sites
justforfun Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Click on "FAQ" on the menu bar, above. The most common ones are listed there. Thanks but I didn't find WS, IC or MC on there. I thought that WS was wronged spouse? I'm still struggling to understand the post. Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks but I didn't find WS, IC or MC on there. I thought that WS was wronged spouse? I'm still struggling to understand the post. WS = Wandering Spouse, wicked spouse or woefully inadequate and downright evil spouse, depending on the poster and the context IC = individual counselling MC = marriage counselling Link to post Share on other sites
justforfun Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 WS = Wandering Spouse, wicked spouse or woefully inadequate and downright evil spouse, depending on the poster and the context IC = individual counselling MC = marriage counselling Thanks. Sorry for sidetracking the thread. I'll read over it again now and be quiet.. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts