Experience with Liars?

[FarFetched]

My STBXW seems to have a problem telling the truth. I noticed it before things got bad between us. If she forgot to pay a bill, she would swear up and down that she paid it, despite all the evidence pointing to the contrary. She would also, occasionally, swear that she had tried to call me several times on a given night, but my phone (and hers) had no indication of incoming or outgoing phone calls. Now, after all the issues that have come up with her in the last few months, with the shady business between her and this other guy, her lying has gotten worse.

 

I found compelling evidence of an affair, and she denied it from the start, regardless of the plain evidence staring her in the face. She then lied about her relationship with him, lied about when she stopped talking with him. Most recently, after she had said she cut off communication with him, she lied about going to a certain city for a work conference. Turns out, the conference was in a different city, and guess who was there?

 

Lastly, she and I can have a discussion where I will tell her it's best that we go our separate ways, because I can't deal with her actions and untruthfullness anymore. She will agree, and then as soon as I say we're done, she'll say "Oh, that's too bad, because I was finally ready to move out there and work on the marriage. Too bad...." The only time she says she wants to set a date to move out here, is after I tell her I'm filing for divorce. But, why would I believe her when she won't stop lying to me?

 

Example: I was supposed to fly home this weekend to celebrate my birthday out there, as she was throwing me a party with all my friends in attendance. We talked the day before, and she said she still wasn't sure whether she wanted to work on the marriage or not, so I said I would file the divorce papers and the divorce would be finalized in 6 months. She said that was fine, but that "she would probably be calling me shortly thereafter to ask if she could move out here." Right. So a couple days later, I found all this stuff out that she has been lying to me about in the last few months (she tells her best friend everything, who relayed it to me). I called her and told her I wasn't coming, as I was not pleased that she has been untruthful. I refused her calls the rest of the evening, and sent her an administrative email for what to expect with the divorce papers. I also told her I wasn't interested in hearing from her again unless it was related to the divorce filing. She texts me the next day, all upset that I believed her friend over her. I explain to her that I can't trust her, because every time I do, she lies. This is when she said, "Too bad you didn't come. I was going to surprise you with a one-way ticket to move out there in a few weeks. Oh well, too late now..." I asked her why she would let me think we were getting divorced for two weeks so she could maintain a surprise? WTF? This isn't a puppy you're presenting me with, here. She seriously does this every time I tell her I'm going to move on without her. Why would she not just let me move on? Why does she have to make me think that she was going to give this a shot, and try to get me to feel guilty for ending it? During conversations where we have discussed possibly working things out, she NEVER mentions this stuff. Only to try to guilt me; I can only assume she's lying about her intentions.

 

Her comfort in telling lies to maintain her distorted reality is truly disturbing. I honestly think she believes her lies sometimes. Is this the sign of a compulsive or pathological liar?

[Brokenlady]

Her comfort in telling lies to maintain her distorted reality is truly disturbing. I honestly think she believes her lies sometimes. Is this the sign of a compulsive or pathological liar?

 

Or perhaps a manipulative sociopath. No empathy for anyone and it sounds like she is absolutely shameless. Will manipulate to get whatever she wants. Try not to let it get you, that's why she does it in the first place, to jerk you around.

[phineas]

The parrallels between your STBXW & mine are frightening.

mine is a manipulator for sure.

[carhill]

See, that's how she always was but you were brainwashed into believing otherwise.

 

Accept it for what it is and act in a way which protects your interests from that truth.

[FarFetched]

It's so weird, because she SEEMS like such a nice person when people meet her. None of my friends could imagine she's capable of doing what she has done. My aunt, on the other hand, recognized that she seemed to be putting on a fake persona the first time she met her. Like she was trying to superficially be charming.

 

The other weird thing about her is that she would be SO loving toward me: write me the sweetest notes, put forth all this effort to show how much she cares about me and how much she loves our relationship, etc. Then, a day later, she would be wondering whether we should be together because she hasn't been happy for a long time. "What about yesterday?", I would ask. "Oh, I was just putting on a happy face." Then, a couple days later, it was back to her loving the relationship again. For some reason, I thought this was normal...

[carhill]

She was thinking the relationship. People who have no soul do that. The reasons for having no soul are many. Regardless, faking emotions to manipulate should be punished by a life sentence of nothing, zero, emptiness. Justice

[FarFetched]

Oh, another lie I forgot to mention (this is a big one). She always used to tell me how disgusting and despicable she found cheating. Nonetheless, she was always suspicious that I would leave her for another woman someday, regardless of my assurances I wouldn't. Well, I came to find out that when she and I started dating, she was still with her long-term boyfriend (she told me she was single). She didn't break up with him until about two months later when she and I became "official". So she was technically cheating on him and lying to me about it. Disgusting.

[sumdude]

This sounds all to familiar to me.. did you marry my ex wife by any chance?

 

She's not likely to change. She manipulates people with words, probably gets a feeling of power and control from it. As difficult as it's going to be you should let her go. You have probably been going half crazy for years trying to read between the lines of everything she says trying to determine truth from fiction. Pathological lairs often have personality disorders such as Borderline or Narcissistic disorder.

 

My ex as well was for a long time appearing to me to be the sweetest most loving woman. My friends and family had doubts about her from the start. She also told me how much she hated lairs and cheaters. In the end she left me for another man. Pretty sure she was having the affair for a while before and she had the gall to accuse me of cheating. Looking back I wonder just how many affairs there might have been.

Edited November 16, 2009 by sumdude

[phineas]

This sounds all to familiar to me.. did you marry my ex wife by any chance?

 

She's not likely to change. She manipulates people with words, probably gets a feeling of power and control from it. As difficult as it's going to be you should let her go. You have probably been going half crazy for years trying to read between the lines of everything she says trying to determine truth from fiction. Pathological lairs often have personality disorders such as Borderline or Narcissistic disorder.

 

My ex as well was for a long time appearing to me to be the sweetest most loving woman. My friends and family had doubts about her from the start. She also told me how much she hated lairs and cheaters. In the end she left me for another man. Pretty sure she was having the affair for a while before and she had the gall to accuse me of cheating. Looking back I wonder just how many affairs there might have been.

 

Same here.

 

Mine would wake up in the middle of the night, talk to her boyfriend or text him then wake me up for some nookie & tell me how much she loved me.

 

Here i'm thinking I got a great wife that loves me.

 

Whoops guess not.

[ann09]

Ok. Here's a truth that's hard to admit. I have been a compulsive liar for many years. Never was before...but became one. Once you start, there's no stopping it. It gets easier and easier. I am not proud to admit this at all. I type this with all the shame one could ever feel about one self. I lied to my husband. I lied to the OM. I lied to everyone so much that I almost started to believe myself. Scary.

 

I used to lie to my husband just to "keep the peace". Say nice things to him just so he wouldn't investigate me. Well, something in me changed about 6 months ago. Maybe therapy helped me - I don't know. But I took a LONG, hard look at myself and realized I had no idea who I had become. The day that happened, I decided I had to change. I hated myself.

 

I agree, most people can't change. And trust me, it's a work in progress EVERYDAY for me. I lied about my spending, where I was going and who I was with, whether or not I was leaving my husband. I lied to the OM that I was going to an attny. I lied to everyone - including my children. There I was trying to teach them to be good honest people and I was a liar all along.

 

Each day that goes that I don't lie is a good day. And I refuse now to even tell small white lies in fear that the whole cycle will start again. It's a wonderful feeling - but I can't help be scared that I could become that person again.

 

I am sorry about your wife. There is no excuse ever to lie. It's the worst trait a person could ever have. One of these days I will be able to look in the mirror again and like myself. Not there yet, but I am hopeful.

[dazedandconfused2008]

ann...that was a real honest post. I think you should be proud of yourself...for taking that long hard look at yourself (that is really hard to do for a lot of people) and seeing the person you had become and didnt like...but also taking the first steps in becoming the person you want to become...that you can like. Continue on that path of working on yourself and feeling good about you...dont worry about making everyone happy...if it requires sacrificing the part of you that goes against your inner personal values and beliefs...then its not good for you as a person or for them.

Happiness (i like to say serenity/peace) can only be found from within...and looking for it in other people is the biggest mistake people make.

My ex lies and continues to lie. Seriously...i could see him drop his fork and be like...i saw you drop your fork...and my ex would be like...no you didnt...i would be like yeah i did...i just saw you...then he would come up with this long story that sounded so believable that i even started to believe that it could be true...(questioning my own self even though i saw him drop the fork). But I also know he struggles with his self worth and hates himself. In his mind...he lies to "protect" us from the truth...which will cause pain (but the lies cause even more pain than he even knows and is more damaging). Lies to himself to "protect" himself from the truth....which will cause pain. Lying is very progressive to the point where the person lying doesnt even know what is true or not anymore. Their lies become "their truth". Like ann said....it gets easier and easier and they even start to believe their own lies. Its avoidance and denial of truth...to whats really going on deep inside..cuz that causes pain....to not accept responsibility to anyone or themselves for their behavior...cuz that would be truthful and cause pain. Its...really sad...and really not worth being in that relationship anymore for me.I cant believe anything he says anymore because in the back of my mind...i would always be wondering what is the real truth and i cant live like that for the rest of my life. Do you Farfetched?

Lying turns into second nature because its worked for them for so long. People CAN change if they WANT to change but i do know its up to that person to want it not anyone else....out of curiosity ann...think back to what was it that made you take that long hard look at yourself?

[confused71]

Wow,the lying thing seems to be common with a lot of these walk aways.Nothing my ex has said to me since she started her affair ,and probably before then,has been the truth.

We are now divorced and she still tries to manipulate me with lies.

 

The latest was about a month and a half ago when she texted me out of the blue to say she is single now....I was like so what??

So then she asks to borrow some money.The first time I refused but the second time she claimed she was desperate.

So like a complete fool I lend her $100.Only to find out she had moved OM into the house that same week .(when we split she claimed she was never going to live with a man again)

 

And I dont know about anyone else....but my ex goes absolutely crazy when I confront her about her lies with evidence .Says the most horrible things....Anyone else have this??

[Gunny376]

Well Confused its been my general experience in Life that if you loan someone $100 and you never see nor hear from them again? Its money well spent.

 

Peace of mind?

 

Priceless.

 

And, Oh yea! Everytime you catch them in their spuned tangle of lies? Your instantly just became the biggest SOB that ever walked the face of the Earth.

 

But yet they will still presist in their denial and lies ~ its right out of the cheater's handbook, page 12 I believe? And I quote:

 

"If caught in bed doing the deed, its imperative that you DENY, DENY, DENY! Say nothing, simply get up and begin getting dress even taking time to make the bed.

 

Even ten years later if they bring it up? Deny it ~ "Damnit woman! I told you ten years ago I was not sleeping with that woman! Are you going to believe me or your lying eyes!"

[eeyore1981]

My husband is a compulsive/pathological whatever other kind there may be liar. He's very, very manipulative. His mother is the same.

 

My tolerance for this from my husband is getting weaker every single day. I quit speaking to my MIL some time ago, life is just too short.

 

I am currently not speaking to him over some lying he has done. Usually I am very vocal, I like to try to talk things out and get them settled, but this has been pointless. Now I just pretend he isn't here. What a way to live.

 

MC on Wednesday. Maybe a light bulb will go off, if not for him, then maybe for me.

[Gunny376]

Being a carrer Marine ~ Honor, integrity, and honesty are everything.

 

I learned very early in my carrer that your reputation will carry you far ~ even save your butt!

 

I got caught up in a situation at work that had been going on for eighteen years ~ (I've been there five +) and got caught up in a 'blanket" punishment in which everyone got two days off without pay.

 

Indeed, I was the one that brought the issue to the forefront when confronted with the problem.

 

I've since established the reputation at work that I may fall short? But I will not lie, tell half-truths, nor jepordize my integrity, nor my honor. Even if may cost me my job?

 

When the two days without pay deal went down? Payroll didn't take it out of my pay.

 

I called my boss and told him so. I could have just kept my mouth shut, and it would have gone un-noticed?

 

A lot of "just doing the right thing?" ~ is just doing the right thing!

 

As a woman that once worked for me once told me?

 

"Just do the right thing! Just do the right thing! You know what it is! God wrote it upon your heart the day you were born! You know what the right thing to do is!"

[lookin2wardthefuture]

My STBXH is also a huge liar. It makes me wonder how many lies he's fed me over the years, because up until all of this bs started, I would have told you he's a pretty honest person. D&C Is correct these kinds of people tell so many lies that they begin to believe them. And it is just like a giant web of deciet, it just keeps growing, because as we all know every time one lie is told another must be told as well.

Another thing that is scary abouth liars is I believe hey have a running dialogue or conversation going on in their own heads at all times. My STBX would swear that he had had a conversation with me about something that needed to be taken care of (he certainly was'nt going to do it) and I knew damn well we'd had no conversation whatsoever. That's when they make you out to be the bad guy. He'd say "see you never listen or pay attention to me." It's all part of the liar manipulation process.

[ann09]

Wow,the lying thing seems to be common with a lot of these walk aways.Nothing my ex has said to me since she started her affair ,and probably before then,has been the truth.

We are now divorced and she still tries to manipulate me with lies.

 

The latest was about a month and a half ago when she texted me out of the blue to say she is single now....I was like so what??

So then she asks to borrow some money.The first time I refused but the second time she claimed she was desperate.

So like a complete fool I lend her $100.Only to find out she had moved OM into the house that same week .(when we split she claimed she was never going to live with a man again)

 

And I dont know about anyone else....but my ex goes absolutely crazy when I confront her about her lies with evidence .Says the most horrible things....Anyone else have this??

 

 

That's what liars do. Get defensive and panic which sends them into a rage. If we freak out enough we can turn it around somehow and take the atttention off the lie itself. Almost similar to just confusing the person we are lying to. A calm, rational person doesn't get like this.

[FarFetched]

I think she's trying to make me feel guilty. She sent a long email yesterday talking about how she how distraught she was at work after I called her out on her lies and told her I wouldn't be coming to visit. She told me how she hasn't eaten in three days, and she told me she feels empty and alone right now. She also said she plans to move away from where she is now, as she feels as though everybody is against her right now. Her words were, "I just want to disappear". Lastly, she forwarded an email a friend sent her about how disappointed that I had to cancel my visit (and therefore, the birthday party). It was if to say, "See what you did by cancelling your visit?" This woman refuses to accept any personal responsibility for her actions. I have completely ignored both messages.

[sumdude]

I think she's trying to make me feel guilty. She sent a long email yesterday talking about how she how distraught she was at work after I called her out on her lies and told her I wouldn't be coming to visit. She told me how she hasn't eaten in three days, and she told me she feels empty and alone right now. She also said she plans to move away from where she is now, as she feels as though everybody is against her right now. Her words were, "I just want to disappear". Lastly, she forwarded an email a friend sent her about how disappointed that I had to cancel my visit (and therefore, the birthday party). It was if to say, "See what you did by cancelling your visit?" This woman refuses to accept any personal responsibility for her actions. I have completely ignored both messages.

 

Seems pretty clear that she has some sort of personality disorder. Borderline or histrionic .. though I'm not a shrink so don't take this as a professional opinion. Either way has she ever sought counseling? You can't fix her or change her. You probably need to let her go for sure. Still you might want to bring it up with her. These are pretty classic actions.

[confused71]

That's what liars do. Get defensive and panic which sends them into a rage. If we freak out enough we can turn it around somehow and take the atttention off the lie itself. Almost similar to just confusing the person we are lying to. A calm, rational person doesn't get like this.

 

Definately.Whenever I confronted her with evidence of lying it was always met with screams of 'why are you spying on me 'etc.Fly into an absolute rage and make me feel like I was in the wrong.

 

And Ann09 ,I have a bit more respect for you after you admitted about the lying thing.Maybe you are starting to think about your life a bit more and this is a step in the right direction.

Having been on the receiving end of someone who lies and completely re-writes history I know the pain it causes for everyone.

[ann09]

Definately.Whenever I confronted her with evidence of lying it was always met with screams of 'why are you spying on me 'etc.Fly into an absolute rage and make me feel like I was in the wrong.

 

And Ann09 ,I have a bit more respect for you after you admitted about the lying thing.Maybe you are starting to think about your life a bit more and this is a step in the right direction.

Having been on the receiving end of someone who lies and completely re-writes history I know the pain it causes for everyone.

 

 

Thank you.

 

Lying has been the hardest thing for me to admit about myself. I lost myself in it. I am sickened over the lies I have told - and even more sickened at the lengths I went to and embellishments I told. What's worse, it actually got easy. It's somewhat an addiction. Once you start it just spirals out of control - I swear I started to believe myself somehow.

[FarFetched]

Despite my ignoring her emails the day before, yesterday she messaged me and sounded all bright and chipper. She was talking to me as if we were best friends and nothing had ever happened. I was very short in my responses, and eventually asked her if there was something she needed to talk with me about. When she said no, I told her to have a good day. A bit later, I emailed her a copy of the property settlement and asked her to review it. She eventually agreed to it, and then said she is coming out here (4 hour flight) in a couple weeks. I asked her why, since I had already packed all her things. She said she was coming because she wanted to see me, and since I couldn't make it this weekend, she wanted to come out here. I reminded her why I didn't want to see her this weekend, and that still applied. She then says she is flying out here to see me, and then plans to fly home to put in her two-weeks at work and then buy a one-way ticket to move out here for good. She spoke about it as if her decision to do this was certain. Attempting to see if she was being truthful, I said, "Great. Since you're committed to moving out, why not buy the one-way ticket now? You told me a couple days ago that you had already done it anyway, so just repurchase ie." Well, she then asks if she can just get it when she gets back from here, and when I ask why, she says she's still unsure if she wants to move out here or not because she feels unloved and unsupported. Unbelievable. She is obviously coming out here for some other purpose, as she flip-flops from wanting to move here to being unsure in a matter of minutes.

 

I did more research on this, and she does exhibit strong signs of having borderline perosnality disorder. Really, it was uncanny how accurate the description was. I told her last night that the only chance she could possibly have in saving our marriage is to show up at the door with her suitcase in hand. Otherwise, I'm not going to talk to or see her in any way. Am I okay just keeping things like this, or should I send a long email telling her we are absolutely done (and starting NC) and explain all the reasons why (meanwhile suggesting she see somebody, like a counselor or something).

[ADF]

She could be a compulsive liar, or she just could be an utterly amoral, manipulative, self-centered person. Take you pick. But who cares? You'll be well rid of her soon.

[WalkInThePark]

Ok. Here's a truth that's hard to admit. I have been a compulsive liar for many years. Never was before...but became one. Once you start, there's no stopping it. It gets easier and easier. I am not proud to admit this at all. I type this with all the shame one could ever feel about one self. I lied to my husband. I lied to the OM. I lied to everyone so much that I almost started to believe myself. Scary.

 

Ann, what made you a compulsive liar. You say you weren't one before. What event triggered this, or did it gradually happen over time?

[dazedandconfused2008]

Farfetched....it could very well be borderline personalilty disorder. I am pretty sure that is what my ex has as well. Your lady seems to show signs of "jekyll and hyde" symptoms of BPD. People that use lying, manipulating, denial, etc have used it for so long to cope and get what they need and want to overcome problems and issues have probably done it for so long...that is has become second nature to them. You would be surprised how common BPD really is and personality disorders are usually the hardest to diagnose because by the time the person realizes that there is a problem, their lives have already fallen apart. (Sometimes falling and falling hard is what they need though).

 

Regardless...the only thing is...the only way for her to overcome any of this is for her to hit her rock bottom and WANT to get help for herself. There is really nothing you can do for her. Even if you were to say i think you have a problem and should get help...she would look at you like YOU are the problem and try and twist things around..OR she would agree just to please you or shut you up...but reality being..why would she change when her heart isnt in it and she hasnt had any reason to change?

 

Bottom line is you need to COMMIT to something. Stay or go. Stay and keep playing this game with her where you both will continue to hurt and fall (it gets worse...believe me ive been there)....or leave and work on yourself and find yourself (leading up to inner peace and chance of happiness for yourself)....and maybe she will see what her actions are causing..but that is up to her to figure out.

 

I cant tell you what to do...but from my own experience...i did that back and forth game for over two years. It has sucked me dry...trying to keep my ex in my life...trying to "help" him...trying to make him "see". I listened to the lies...allowed him to manipulate me...let him use me....EVERYTHING. I fought that little voice inside telling me "thats enough" i wanted him and wanted it to work...and when i thought it couldnt get any lower...it did. I did all this because i loved him...and to be honest...despite everything he did to me....i still do. I finally went nc (absolutely nothing) this past month...and have come to realize that i loved him so much...i lost me...and i wasnt helping either of us. I love him so much...i had to let him go...so that he can go through what he needs to go through...and all i can do is hope that one day he wakes up to get help...and finds himself too. Letting go is so hard...but i am getting ME back...a piece at a time.

 

Sometimes love isnt always about hanging on....sometimes its about letting go.