JamesM Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 "IMO it is just one step from an affair when we set physical standards for our spouses. It becomes a seemingly justifiable reason for a spouse to use, when he or she says that "my overweight spouse won't lose weight, so she or he does not love me." However, I had a friend of mine years ago, who was a personal trainer. She was fit as fit could be. Very toned, shapely, pretty, etc etc. Her husband didn't ask her to do this, it was her choice, her passion and lvoe for health and being fit. She taught yoga, and weight training at the local gym. BUT obviously weight or outward appearances wasn't an issue with her husband. He ran all around on her. It didn't matter to him how toned and in shape she was was. That is the key. In this case (which IMO doesn't apply to this one), there may have been entirely different reasons for the affair(s). I would like to clarify my statement to read..."When we set any sort of standard for our spouse to meet in order to gain our love, then IMO our marriage is one step away from an affair or a divorce." Link to post Share on other sites
PandorasBox Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 That is the key. In this case (which IMO doesn't apply to this one), there may have been entirely different reasons for the affair(s). I would like to clarify my statement to read..."When we set any sort of standard for our spouse to meet in order to gain our love, then IMO our marriage is one step away from an affair or a divorce." I understand what you're saying and I agree. Link to post Share on other sites
frustrated_one Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 I do think if you live in an area where there's lots of eye candy, then it can force people to look beyond the wrapper. However, I'll go back to Dr. Harley, though, who has identified 10 emotional needs men/women have. For some people, the physical appearance just isn't in their top five. "IMO it is just one step from an affair when we set physical standards for our spouses. It becomes a seemingly justifiable reason for a spouse to use, when he or she says that "my overweight spouse won't lose weight, so she or he does not love me." I know this might be a little off topic but just wanted to throw this in there. I do think its important for people to have or maintain a healthy weight for lots of reasons. However, I had a friend of mine years ago, who was a personal trainer. She was fit as fit could be. Very toned, shapely, pretty, etc etc. Her husband didn't ask her to do this, it was her choice, her passion and lvoe for health and being fit. She taught yoga, and weight training at the local gym. BUT obviously weight or outward apparences wasn't an issuse with her husband. He ran all around on her. It didn't matter to him how toned and in shape she was was. I know, and have seen some men or one in particular on here before, I can remember that did not believe a person could run around on a very pretty or handsome physically fit spouse. Well its true, it happens alot. Link to post Share on other sites
seoa Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 (edited) Last night I got gently poked at about my weight. She was bantering but she meant it. So I am going to make the effort to change it as it makes wife happy. I really don't see this as a big deal. I KNOW she loves me. I KNOW she is not going to be nasty or mean about it. Would bet my life on that. She DOES HAVE a lust based preference. She is not a biatch about it. I do not feel put upon. This is so completely different from FOs situation - she does *not* feel loved by her hubbie right now - he has cut off all affectionate touch - she gets no hugs, no caresses - he won't do anything more than peck her on the cheek twice a day... This is about so much more than the sex... This is about a guy who was in a 10-year virtually-sexless relationship - by HIS choice... He's just not that fussed about sex, and he's using FOs own body-image-issues to avoid dealing with his own issues (she's got more than her fair share of the usual female unhealthy mental attitude about her weight, and always has done)... This is why some of us have been 'bashing' him... If FOs hubbie had taken the LOVING attitude that your wife has done - had made her feel loved & appreciated - then she would have found it a million times easier to get motivated... Instead, he's just been mean to her... What if you approached your wife for a bit of nookie last night, and she pushed you away impatiently, looked at you with disgust, walked out the room, while saying something spiteful about how ugly you now are...? If she didn't do that, then you are not experiencing what FO has been experiencing, and you cannot equate your two situations... Edit: and the worst of it is, she's defending him... She's read that awful 'His Needs, Her Needs' guy's book, and between the author & her hubbie & her own belief that she's always been "too fat" even when she was young & thin, has decided that he is *allowed* to be this spiteful to her... Apparently it's OK to be horrible & mean to your spouse if she's not meeting your every need... Compassion & love while you work through the issue (because it is important that we make an effort to meet our SO's needs) is not a part of the marriage relationship...!? Edited November 16, 2009 by seoa Link to post Share on other sites
frustrated_one Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 See bold below: This is so completely different from FOs situation - she does *not* feel loved by her hubbie right now - he has cut off all affectionate touch - she gets no hugs, no caresses - he won't do anything more than peck her on the cheek twice a day... Fortunately, this all changed this weekend with several long conversations. This is about so much more than the sex... This is about a guy who was in a 10-year virtually-sexless relationship - by HIS choice... He's just not that fussed about sex, and he's using FOs own body-image-issues to avoid dealing with his own issues (she's got more than her fair share of the usual female unhealthy mental attitude about her weight, and always has done)... This is why some of us have been 'bashing' him... If FOs hubbie had taken the LOVING attitude that your wife has done - had made her feel loved & appreciated - then she would have found it a million times easier to get motivated... Instead, he's just been mean to her... I agree. However, he was not mean on purpose, however. What if you approached your wife for a bit of nookie last night, and she pushed you away impatiently, looked at you with disgust, walked out the room, while saying something spiteful about how ugly you now are...? If she didn't do that, then you are not experiencing what FO has been experiencing, and you cannot equate your two situations... My husband did push me away when I made a grab for his crotch. He says it was because we were over a friends house and what if they had come in? I have never caught him looking at me with disgust, walked out of a room or said something spiteful about me being ugly. That has just never happened, as I can recall, in our relationship. I certainly don't think I ever wrote anything on this forum about it. You are making my husband sound like a horrible man and he is NOT. He is a wonderful guy and treats me so well in every area of our married life except this one. Edit: and the worst of it is, she's defending him... She's read that awful 'His Needs, Her Needs' guy's book, and between the author & her hubbie & her own belief that she's always been "too fat" even when she was young & thin, has decided that he is *allowed* to be this spiteful to her... Again, you are mischaracterizing my husband's actions. I have never written he has been spiteful. I am not excusing or saying he is allowed to be spiteful. I think Dr. Harley's book has been very helpful in helping me to reconsider my husband's need for a physically attractive wife and would recommend it to everyone. Apparently it's OK to be horrible & mean to your spouse if she's not meeting your every need... Compassion & love while you work through the issue (because it is important that we make an effort to meet our SO's needs) is not a part of the marriage relationship...!? If you have read my updates from over the weekend, then you would know that love and compassion are present in our marriage relationship. We are both human. We make mistakes. We try our best. What a woman may read into her husband's actions or visa versa can be very different from what is actually meant. We love each other and we are both now actively working to make our marriage one that fulfills each others needs. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Women are hardwired to respond to a physically larger/stronger man. My wife is poking at me - because she wants me to GAIN some weight. I am a bit too thin now. James, You walk the walk ethically better then anyone I know. That said, I chuckled when I read your comment about weight requirements and infidelity. My very Catholic wife would never, ever, ever cheat. She doesn't have a weight "requirement." for me. She sure does get irritated when I fail to simply make a bit more effort and maintain a certain level of stockiness. Her viewpoint is that she has a strong hardwired preference, it is not that hard for me to accommodate, and it is lazy for me to not bother. I would without reservation bet my life she doesn't cheat on me and wouldn't cheat even if I got rail thin again. She does not see weight as a basis for cheating, or fully denying sex. But it is a turnoff for her for me to do that. I find it a bit irritating that folks with a weight preference are being vilified - and now described as one step from infidelity. There is a spectrum of behavior related to physical attraction. I LOVE garlic. I never eat anything with garlic unless wife is with me - and willing to eat some also. She hates garlic breath - very sensitive to it. But if we both eat the same thing - no problem. So my avoidance of garlic is not a hardship I endure to prevent my wife from disliking my breath - running out of the house and cheating with my neighbor. Nope. I avoid garlic to be considerate. I always do, whether or not we are going to connect that night. But the utter certainty there will be no sex is a general factor in my being careful with garlic. If anyone really thinks a spouse is shallow for not wanting to have sex with someone has garlic breath - speak up. I've read many of your posts and doubt you could have put on more then 10lbs (on a much larger frame) to draw ire from your spouse........ Actually I'd be much more distressed in your situation where such a small change could have a huge affect. In the OP, I also noted an earlier post where a female put on 10 lbs and her fitness obsessed husband was turned off a gorgeous still skinny female.... Link to post Share on other sites
NowhereToHide Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 "IMO it is just one step from an affair when we set physical standards for our spouses. It becomes a seemingly justifiable reason for a spouse to use, when he or she says that "my overweight spouse won't lose weight, so she or he does not love me." I know this might be a little off topic but just wanted to throw this in there. I do think its important for people to have or maintain a healthy weight for lots of reasons. However, I had a friend of mine years ago, who was a personal trainer. She was fit as fit could be. Very toned, shapely, pretty, etc etc. Her husband didn't ask her to do this, it was her choice, her passion and lvoe for health and being fit. She taught yoga, and weight training at the local gym. BUT obviously weight or outward apparences wasn't an issuse with her husband. He ran all around on her. It didn't matter to him how toned and in shape she was was. I know, and have seen some men or one in particular on here before, I can remember that did not believe a person could run around on a very pretty or handsome physically fit spouse. Well its true, it happens alot. When women like Christy Brinkley and Halle Berry have husbands that cheat on them, that is the biggest proof there is that cheating doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the attractiveness of the spouse. I mean, honestly... what were these guys thinking? Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Mem, I quote the portions that apply. And as I read your last post, you reiterated how your wife is NOT setting any standards for you to meet if you want sex. Instead she is making her thoughts known as a wife and husband with open communication can do with each other. Mem, the comparison can be made here if in a month or two, your wife says that she will no longer have sex with you until you lose a certain amount of weight. I would like to clarify my statement to read..."When we set any sort of standard for our spouse to meet in order to gain our love, then IMO our marriage is one step away from an affair or a divorce." James, You walk the walk ethically better then anyone I know. That said, I chuckled when I read your comment about weight requirements and infidelity. My very Catholic wife would never, ever, ever cheat. She doesn't have a weight "requirement." for me. So...your wife can tell you to gain (did you really say...gain?!? I was once there in our early days of marriage. ) weight without giving you an ultimatum. This is entirely acceptable IMO. It is when a person uses these standards as requirements that there is a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Mem, I quote the portions that apply. And as I read your last post, you reiterated how your wife is NOT setting any standards for you to meet if you want sex. Instead she is making her thoughts known as a wife and husband with open communication can do with each other. So...your wife can tell you to gain (did you really say...gain?!? I was once there in our early days of marriage. ) weight without giving you an ultimatum. This is entirely acceptable IMO. It is when a person uses these standards as requirements that there is a problem. Mem11363 has one of the more curious relationships here, but you continue to beat around he bush when it comes to this situation. You who has such an issue in your marriage with a wife who can not give you a straight answer about the lack of sex. FO had a simple problem (may not be such a simple solution)..... I for one can understand the husband's lament and the fact she knew it and still did very little to address (20 or 30 lbs ago) it really does perplex me. Then again your view when asked how you would react to the need to lose weight if that was the answer to the sex problem as if that is really different from a request to help more around the house, be more attentive and romantic to restore your sex life is okay.... You state that there would be resentment or concern. I don't get it.... They are all reasonable requests.... FO on top of it said in the OP she actively hated exercise and did not want to do it and did eat bad food. Is that different from a male who is told that his messiness (using an example) was turning off his wife, then refusing to pick up after himself????? Link to post Share on other sites
giotto Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 If you knew your wife was not having sex with you because you had put on 50 lbs, you'd take it off for her, for your health and for YOUR SEX LIFE. If my wife said that and withheld sex, then I would resent it and I would not lose it... it would probably push me to eat even more... Link to post Share on other sites
Thornton Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Sex in a marriage is a given. It's not a motivator or a bargaining chip. Whoah there... you're basically saying that once a man/woman is married they have no right to decide what to do with their own body, i.e. they must continue to have sex with their spouse even if they no longer desire them. I beg to differ; no matter how long I was married for, my body (and the decision of what to do with it) remains my own. The law agrees that nobody has the right to tell me what to do with my body, whether I'm married or not. There seems to be a "I can get as unnattractive as I want, and he'd still better still find me attractive, godammit" mind-set that is seriously at odds w/reality, and human nature... There have been a few honest replies, but the majority seem really out there... Oh well, not really my problem I guess, just trying to be honest... Agreed... the idea that someone can become as unattractive as they like and still expect their spouse to find them attractive is not at all realistic. 50lbs overweight at 5'2" is to my mind human walrus territory Sorry but I have to agree with this. I wouldn't desire a fat husband any more than the OP's husband desires a fat wife. I imagine it is this way for many people who have trouble loosing the pounds. Their bodies are set to be a certain weight and it must be a constant battle to keep the weight off. Sorry but that's a load of nonsense. If you stuck these people in the middle of Africa where there's very little food and they were required to do exercise by fetching water etc, do you really think they'd remain fat? It's a physical impossibility - the fact is that if you stop eating so much and exercise more, the weight comes off. The problem lies with people who don't exercise, and people who cannot stop eating - their appetite is set at a certain level, they consume too much food at each meal and possibly snack in between on entirely the wrong foods, because they've come to view it as normal. It isn't normal, but these people have no idea because they aren't aware of what a slim person actually eats. They think they're eating the right amount, but they couldn't be further from the truth... hence why they're fat. Link to post Share on other sites
EmmaLou Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 If my wife said that and withheld sex, then I would resent it and I would not lose it... it would probably push me to eat even more... Exactly... Even though the whole thing would be about me wanting more sex... if I had the promise of that on condition of losing weight, I would resent that I would have to change myself for my partner to desire me.... and that he would sexually reject me until I was lighter. I would feel very differently about him.. and that he wasn't the person I thought he was.. and so then wouldn't want to have sex with him anyway after that, knowing he's examining my every curve and comparing me to other women. I wouldn't think... "Oh good, a solution! Thankyou for telling me I'm a fatty, I'll do something about it right away just so I can get some sex from my HUSBAND. I'm ever so grateful.... " Hehe.... TDP, I don't agree that the weight thread didn't deserve the attention it did, but don't think you should get the hard time you do in your sex threads. You do sound like a great husband. Link to post Share on other sites
EmmaLou Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Everyone seems to have quite opposite end opinions on this, which is okay if both partners have the same way of thinking... and a complete mess if they don't. It's all about unconditional/conditional love... figure out which one you have. I have to say, the men and women have surprised me here... I thought all the men would be the ones saying their partners must stay slim, and the women would be the ones calling them shallow. Just goes to show you can't generalise! Link to post Share on other sites
OneTwo Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) ...and so then wouldn't want to have sex with him anyway after that, knowing he's examining my every curve and comparing me to other women...I wouldn't think... "Oh good, a solution! Thankyou for telling me I'm a fatty, I'll do something about it right away just so I can get some sex from my HUSBAND. I'm ever so grateful.... " Hehe.... . If my wife said that and withheld sex, then I would resent it and I would not lose it... it would probably push me to eat even more... I guess I don't understand the dynamics of the relationships that Emma and giotto and JamesM have. If my wife gave me an indication of anything I could do that would make her feel more attracted to me, to make her more intimate, or to make her more phyically attentive, I would make that one of my goals. I'm not saying it wouldn't hurt my feelings, but if it was as important as something that is affecting her attraction to me as a mate, I think I would get over the comment and focus on the concern. After all, she has said other things that either hurt or pissed me off, but I didn't do the exact opposite just to escalate the situation into a fight and therefore prove her point more than my own... Why is it that if your spouse tells you what is causing a problem that you would then do the exact opposite and use it to detroy the marriage? Do you think that if your h or w told you that they are losing their attraction to you because you are getting too fat, and then because they told you, you decide to pack on an additional 20 lbs that somehow you have won? What if then they left you (or you leave them for withholding sex), and you decide to hit the streets as a new single looking for a new mate. Do you think that extra 50-80lbs would serve you well? Or, would you then slim down to attract a new mate? What does that say about your feelings about your ex -- I won't lose the weight for you, but I'll slim down to attract a stranger. I guess I just don't get it. James you say that if you wife indicated that your weight was a problem that you would be put off or whatever. Yet, she has done a hell of a lot more than hurt your feelings about your weight: she has told you to get sex somewhere else. After that comment, calling you a fatty or anything else is mere child's play. James, this post is not an attack on you whatsoever. I am keeping up with your posts as I find them relevant and facinating. I just find it rediculous that eveyone says they would fight back if their spouse told them they were fat, yet their spouse can go stone cold on them and withold sex, affection, and intimacy, and yet you guys still stick around. I guess it's pride and ego above all else...."I am Walrus. Hear me roar!" Edited November 17, 2009 by OneTwo Link to post Share on other sites
hopeful1980 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Whoah there... you're basically saying that once a man/woman is married they have no right to decide what to do with their own body, i.e. they must continue to have sex with their spouse even if they no longer desire them. I beg to differ; no matter how long I was married for, my body (and the decision of what to do with it) remains my own. The law agrees that nobody has the right to tell me what to do with my body, whether I'm married or I stand by what I said. Sex should not be used as a motivator in a marriage. It's not withheld so that you get your way. You give your body to your spouse freely, not because you think that by doing so you can maniuplate them into losing weight or cleaning up more around the house or making more money... Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 If my wife gave me an indication of anything I could do that would make her feel more attracted to me, to make her more intimate, or to make her more physically attentive, I would make that one of my goals. Why is it that if your spouse tells you what is causing a problem that you would then do the exact opposite and use it to destroy the marriage? James you say that if you wife indicated that your weight was a problem that you would be put off or whatever. Yet, she has done a hell of a lot more than hurt your feelings about your weight: she has told you to get sex somewhere else. After that comment, calling you a fatty or anything else is mere child's play. James, this post is not an attack on you whatsoever. I am keeping up with your posts as I find them relevant and fascinating. First, thank you for taking an interest in my threads. Seriously. Second, I did not say I would not do what she asked. In fact, I would do it with vigor, BUT...if that weight had to be kept there for her to retain her desire for sex with me, then I would question her depth of love for me. Sex in marriage should be an expression of love and while physical attraction does play a role in it, I can honestly say that it is not a primary concern. No, that doesn't give either partner the "freedom" to give up caring for themselves. I guess the best comparison is to think of sex with someone you love versus sex with someone to whom you simply are physically attracted. There is a big difference IMO. Looks play a much bigger role in the sexual desire when you do not love their personality and "soul." So for me to be told that "My lack of interest in sex with you (as your wife) is because you no longer are physically fit (or you have turned gray, or you have wrinkles, etc.)" says that "I do not love you for being you and for what you do." Does that make sense? I guess the question is...how effective are ultimatums and should sex be used to manipulate behavior? Interesting to note...last night's paper had a column by Ann Landers in which a man wrote about his wife not having sex with him until he quit smoking. It has been a year. Ann's reply? Quit smoking. Too bad she doesn't allow rebuttals. Link to post Share on other sites
mem11363 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I guarantee every single poster here has some very strong preferences. They may not be weight - they may be much more important things. But you have them. And if I were to get your spouses to start misbehaving in those areas your love for them would change over time. It would. Hell - if it was your children doing it the same is true. I flat out dispute the very notion of unconditional love that includes a clause which reads: YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO TRY. Mem, I quote the portions that apply. And as I read your last post, you reiterated how your wife is NOT setting any standards for you to meet if you want sex. Instead she is making her thoughts known as a wife and husband with open communication can do with each other. So...your wife can tell you to gain (did you really say...gain?!? I was once there in our early days of marriage. ) weight without giving you an ultimatum. This is entirely acceptable IMO. It is when a person uses these standards as requirements that there is a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Umm...not all women. Superficial women, yes. Because women who disagree with you are inferior. Nice. Link to post Share on other sites
Thornton Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I stand by what I said. Sex should not be used as a motivator in a marriage. It's not withheld so that you get your way. You give your body to your spouse freely, not because you think that by doing so you can maniuplate them into losing weight or cleaning up more around the house or making more money... The law would disagree with you. A man who insisted that his wife had to give her body to him freely, regardless of her own desires, would very soon find himself in prison for rape. While I agree that sex should not be used as a motivator, nor witheld to get your own way, I do think that a person has the right to refuse to have sex if they don't want to. "Witholding" sex implies that the person wants it but is purposely witholding it as blackmail... that isn't the case here, because the OP's husband simply doesn't want sex with someone he finds unattractive. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 .... Superficial women, yes. I could never love a man because of his money. .... That looked to me like you were belittling women who differed from you in their dating and mating preferences. How is it not belittling to them to call them superficial? Link to post Share on other sites
BentSpine Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Some women on these threads overestimate what it takes to reach ejaculation as a man. Simply put, men can reach ejaculation without getting very sexually excited but more importantly, men can reach ejaculation without becoming sexually satisfied. A man isn't turned on by his hand either but nevertheless it can bring him to orgasm through sheer stimulation. But masturbation never satisfy the longing for having sex with an attractive woman. Masturbating doesn't bring a smile to his face, doesn't make him feel content. I man with an overweight woman may feel as though he is masturbating and get little satisfaction from it. That's the reason he doesn't initiate sex: the sex feels like getting masturbated by someone who resembles a fat man. (A fat woman resembles a fat man.) Also, I don't judge some women who are turned off by not being wealthy even though I'm not well off. Our needs are beyond our conscious control and are what they are. As long as there are women who hold other needs than wealth more highly, I'm screwing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Interesting to note...last night's paper had a column by Ann Landers in which a man wrote about his wife not having sex with him until he quit smoking. It has been a year. Ann's reply? Quit smoking. Too bad she doesn't allow rebuttals. If he took up smoking after they were in a committed relationship, was told it was a turnoff and was affecting their sex life and now was smoking like a chimney...... Then Ann is absolutely right..... Other wise like the weight issue it is up to him to cut down significantly or go sexless..... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Toodamnpragmatic Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 For four years + you have been trying to find an answer to your "sexless" marriage. To my original premise as to how easy the weight problem is (not losing weight, but knowing what the problem is), you have said you would resent the idea that you needed to lose weight, but would do it. You then quoted the Ann Landers article and the smoking issue. It seems to me you don't want an answer, because if you are told what "You need to do" to fix the sex problem, then there will be some level of resentment at doing what is necessary (weight was friggin simple).... The resentment to my thinking is if your wife ever does "rediscover her sexuality/need for sex" I would be so upset that 4-15 years were wasted in coming to an answer.... Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 According to Webster's dictionary superficial "implies a concern only with surface aspects or obvious features". http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/superficial Again, in keeping with my argument, I clarified that's about people who marry soley for money or soley for looks. Even in Hopeful1980's post where she states women will marry for money, isn't that less about the person they're marrying as a person and more about what that person can provide for them materially? I don't think use of the term superficial is incorrect. Well if they actually pasted the money on themselves. Seriously, you CAN judge a book by it's cover, people do it all the time and they continue to do it because it works most of the time. A successful guy is very likely to have a lot of the characteristics most women want. Also ... Most women place some significant weight on a mans ability to provide, and in the 21st century (so far) that means earning power. Men don't generally give a rip what a woman earns, if they care at all it's generally because they find a woman who is hard working attractive or sometimes because they want to be shielded from possible future alimony payments. Now that's romantic. Link to post Share on other sites
clv0116 Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I wouldn't call placing weight on a man's ability to provide, and marrying for money the same thing. One implies that it's one portion of the overall package, and the other as a sole reason for attaching themselves to someone. Ah well when people say "marry for money" I don't figure that really happens very often. It's probably exceedingly rare that money is really the sole reason, but it's often a major FACTOR, that's very common and I think that's what old 1980 was talking about. I want a maid, BTW. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts