His Needs vs. Her Needs- Can't Achieve Compromise

[Brokenlady]

Ok, now I'm feeling thoroughly sorry for myself. A quick cry at work. Wondering if he ever cared for me at all, again. I hate that he can cause me to come utterly unglued. Why did I do this to myself? And why do I even feel compelled to be sad over the loss of something that isn't so great to begin with?

[torranceshipman]

The sadness will pass...it sucks, though. I'm not surprised you're feeling sorry for yourself but keep your head up high - you just completely altered your future - in a good way - by choosing to step forward without a manipulative, lying jerk!

[VictoryisMine]

Post #31 Quote "...awoke this morning to a forwarded email from him. Ironically, he received it from his ex-girlfriend (ex of 20 years ago)..."Unquote.

 

Brokenlady, he is communicating with an old girlfriend?

 

My story, in short, this past year.

 

Got involved with a MM. The next two months, in love. He moves out, house up for sale, divorce is filed. Next two months, he moves back in his house with his stbxw (expense reasons, he says). It's going on two months he is living there... with his stbxw. I was pretty pissed off when he did this in the first place, but going on two months, i told him "Until you are DONE with her, i don't want anything to do with you".

 

10 days later he calls to say basically wife is gone, but he has 'opened communication' with an old girlfriend from 15 years back.... All hell broke loose.

 

I haven't heard from him 5 weeks now. I doubt i will.

 

Brokenlady, a lot you wrote makes me believe you got a nut on your hands. Paranoid Disorder to be exact. He will start a 'relationship' with this old girlfriend i fear... for you. Be prepared.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

And why do I even feel compelled to be sad over the loss of something that isn't so great to begin with?

 

Because hopes and dreams don't die so easily. Because, he's actually a "great man" in your mind and realizing otherwise means you have to rewrite history. No way would anyone be mourning a loser, but you didn't see him as a loser so you morn what you THOUGHT he was rather than who he is.

[Phateless]

Hi,

I'm very nervous about this whole thing, so please be gentle with me. My fiance and I have been seeing each other for four years. He was married when we started (I know, I know), but he has been seperated for about a year and the divorce was final two months ago. We got engaged shortly thereafter. For context, we each have kids, none together.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about the engagement. I don't think I have the level of enthusiasm I should have because of how he handled things in our relationship and how he continues to be very enmeshed with his ex-wife. He says I am trying to change him, but really I am just trying to change how he treats me.

 

I cannot shake the feeling of being the "mistress" still. In the last month he has given me the bi-monthly guilt-ridden speech about how he's thinking of going back to her for his kids sake, asked me to leave his house because his ex-wife was coming over to pick something up, and just a couple days ago he shushed me for the millionth time when his ex-wife called his house. He spends most of his time (non-work hours) at his ex-wife's house and he does chores there. Just yesterday he spent several hours raking her leaves. It apparently alleviates his guilt over the affair he had with me.

 

Despite the divorce, and knowing he's with me, she still wants him back. She does not know we're engaged and I know he will not tell her. Supposedly they've stopped having long drawn-out emotional conversations about getting back together, but if true, that's only been the case for a few weeks. Everytime I talk to him about how upset I am with his lack of boundaries with her he says I'm being unreasonable and don't appreciate all he's done to be with me. Really, I don't think it's that. It's just that I've been on the back burner a very long time and have not been getting my secuirty needs met. He wants me to wait longer and I'm getting very resentful about that. It's a real clash between how he needs to handle the end of his marriage and how I need him to handle our relationship. It's like he feels his needs should always trump mine, and that seems wrong. But in the reverse, by my complaining, it's like I'm saying my needs should "win". And then I end up feeling awful selfish.

 

He lets his ex-wife into our relationship in this and other ways. I know he's told her that the amount of time he spends with her bothers me. I feel like he is continually inviting her into our relationship the same way he invited me into the marriage. Maybe I deserve that, but it doesn't seem to bode well for us as a couple. When I tell him it seems like they are still not transitioned to a platonic co-parenting relationship he starts talking to me about how his ex has shifted emotionally. But I'm more concerned about the fact that his feelings aren't shifting - the fact that our relationship is in many ways contingent upon his ex's emotions.

 

In many ways I think - and by his own admission - he spends a lot of time there to spend a few hours wrapped up in the illusion that the family is still togther, like nothing ever happened. So....

 

From my perspective, he has a long way to go before he's ready to let go of his marriage and I am growing increasingly resentful. He has in many ways lost his investment in his individual counseling and I suspect he'll end it soon. He is not enthusiastic about counseling with me, but I think he'd go if i pressed the issue. I'm becoming indifferent to the whole thing - I don't cry anymore and although I love him very much, I wonder if the way he's handled all this has ruined my "in love" feelings for him.

 

Should I wait around some more? Will that be the nail in the coffin of our realtionship if I do? I just don't know what to do because it seems like we really can't compromise on how to get both our needs met (his for enmeshment with his ex-wife, and mine for him not to be enmeshed with her/security for me).

 

WOW! With all due respect, you are setting yourself up to get hurt. Get out now! Are you nuts?!

[Brokenlady]

WOW! With all due respect, you are setting yourself up to get hurt. Get out now! Are you nuts?!

 

Simple and succint. Its possible that I might be nuts. I'm still trying to figure that out.

[Brokenlady]

10 days later he calls to say basically wife is gone, but he has 'opened communication' with an old girlfriend from 15 years back.... All hell broke loose.

 

I haven't heard from him 5 weeks now. I doubt i will.

 

Brokenlady, a lot you wrote makes me believe you got a nut on your hands. Paranoid Disorder to be exact. He will start a 'relationship' with this old girlfriend i fear... for you. Be prepared.

 

Wow, I'm so sorry that happened to you.

 

In my case, he's maintained a distant frienship with this woman for the last 20 years, so it's not as if he's gotten a sudden pang of nostalgia. They actually had a terrible relationship as a romantic couple, but they do ok as friends. She calls him every few weeks. Nothing that particularly concerns me. His ex-wife never liked the fact that they maintained contact, and freaked out when she discovered they had lunch last week (as if it's any of her concern now that they're divorced anyway!). But, honestly I am quite sure the only woman he's going to choose over me is the mother of his children.

 

Not that this helps me any.

[jj33]

Oh honey time for some tough love.

 

STOP STOP STOP.

 

You are NOT a contestant in a beauty contest. You are NOT someone to be "chosen" over someone else. I hate him for putting you in this position.

 

STEP BACK. Give him a chance to chase you. If you dont and if he doesnt, the dynamic of the relationship will always be that he is the prize and you are d*mn lucky to be in his presence.

 

Big hugs

[VictoryisMine]

Brokenlady, of course i hope i'm wrong. But you story sounds a lot like mine, in a way.

 

If he is truly Paranoid, he will take what his wife has done (filing divorce) as a back stab, and not 'want' her. If he is truly Paranoid, he will take your 'taking a stand' as abandonment, and not want you either. So, here is this ex girlfriend, who... 'understands'.

 

Hope i'm wrong.

[Brokenlady]

Brokenlady, of course i hope i'm wrong. But you story sounds a lot like mine, in a way.

 

If he is truly Paranoid, he will take what his wife has done (filing divorce) as a back stab, and not 'want' her. If he is truly Paranoid, he will take your 'taking a stand' as abandonment, and not want you either. So, here is this ex girlfriend, who... 'understands'.

 

Hope i'm wrong.

 

The old girlfriend living with a boyfriend. If he's truly stupid enough to take her back after all they went through, more power to him. He'll get exactly what he deserves.

 

He was actually relieved that his ex-wife filed and finalized the divorce, because then he didn't have to. He knows she only did it to try to slap him back to the way he was, and she's still begging him to come home constantly. He has a drawerful of cards from her that ask him to come back. The sad thing is that if she had managed to pretend that she didn't care, if she had backed off and was really moving on instead of obsessively begging him to come back, I think he probably would have gone back. But that's just my opinion.

 

If he turns to anyone as a result of me pulling back, it will be his ex-wife. Not because he loves her, not because he's dying to be back with her, but because he really really can't stand the idea of being alone and doesn't have anyone else on the back burner that might be a better match for him than his ex-wife. He told me once that since he knows he'll never find anyone better for him than me, he might as well go back to her if it doesn't work out with us. How romantic .

[justforfun]

Oh honey time for some tough love.

 

STOP STOP STOP.

 

You are NOT a contestant in a beauty contest. You are NOT someone to be "chosen" over someone else. I hate him for putting you in this position.

 

STEP BACK. Give him a chance to chase you. If you dont and if he doesnt, the dynamic of the relationship will always be that he is the prize and you are d*mn lucky to be in his presence.

 

Big hugs

 

But isn't stepping back just giving him the option to choose you over his wife? He's still in the position of choosing.

 

A man that chases you doesn't mean anything as far as him being able to have a proper relationship with you. In fact chasing you because you have withdrawn from him is usually a sign of something problematic in him.

[jj33]

Agree with you but the dynamic between them is SO toxic and so terrible that staying and waiting and being resentful (rightly so) is going to eat away at her and cause the relationship to deteriorate futher. It has.

 

He has done the wrong thing and she has sat ther saying please say this isnt true... please do the right thing.

 

That has gotten her nowhere. And nothing.

 

Walking away is her only option. If he comes after her they have an opportunity to start afresh. DATE like normal people. Forget the engagement ring. The engagement ring is an insult to everything she deserves from an engagement period and a fiancee.

 

Something has to break the toxicity of what has gone before. Walking away and waiting for HIM to man up and say I am 100% sure this is what I want. I want a future with you and am committed to that.

 

Without her sitting there waiting and coaxing him to make it happen.

[jj33]

And just I would disagree that he is still choosing. If he comes back and she is no longer "engaged" and they start from scratch, then she is reevaluating whether she will choose him at that point in time whether its a month or 6 months from now.

 

Its a lot different there than standing by fighting with him because he isnt clearly choosing you.

[Phateless]

Simple and succint. Its possible that I might be nuts. I'm still trying to figure that out.

 

This guy cannot POSSIBLY be worth all this ridiculousness. Why on earth are you even considering tolerating this?

 

Get out and within a couple of weeks you'll be so glad you did. Trust me, this whole situation has Jerry Springer written all over it.

[jj33]

Phateless I must agree with you.... and Broken you are NOT going nuts. He is gaslighting you within an inch of your life.

[NoIDidn't]

Wow, I just read this thread.

 

I agree with Phateless. Get out now. Don't look back.

[Brokenlady]

So I guess it's fair to say that the consensus is that attempting counseling is pretty pointless. I flip flop on that, but in my head, I agree. I guess I am having real trouble with both fear and looking down the barrel at having wasted such a long time. And I was clearly wrong about him being able to meet my needs. I thought he was it. And I hate hate hate being wrong.

 

Still silence from him. Maybe he'll make it easy for me to disappear. If I don't get caught up in feeling so damn rejected that is.

[NoIDidn't]

I'm sorry, Brokenlady. Its a hard spot you are in. Invested so much in the relationship and not quite ready to end it in your heart, but sick of it in your head.

 

I wish he wasn't doing this to you (the gaslighting and seemingly stringing you along until he can return to his W).

 

(((Brokenlady)))

[Brokenlady]

This guy cannot POSSIBLY be worth all this ridiculousness. Why on earth are you even considering tolerating this?

 

Get out and within a couple of weeks you'll be so glad you did. Trust me, this whole situation has Jerry Springer written all over it.

 

I know he's not. I guess I only question it because of the huge investment I've made already.

 

Jerry Springer? LOL. Back in the good ol' days when he was home with the ex-wife and seeing me on the side he used to "joke" about having a 3-some. I don't think it was completely a joke, so I "jokingly" told him he was an a**hole for even joking about that.

[Brokenlady]

I'm sorry, Brokenlady. Its a hard spot you are in. Invested so much in the relationship and not quite ready to end it in your heart, but sick of it in your head.

 

I wish he wasn't doing this to you (the gaslighting and seemingly stringing you along until he can return to his W).

 

(((Brokenlady)))

 

Thank you.

 

He can return to his ex-wife at any time. I don't think he's biding his time with me to get to her. He could do that anyday. She would take him back with no hesitation (I've heard it from her, and his family). He thinks about it, I know, but he knows what that means going back to, and losing me of course - so he's not set on that. He isn't set on anything except the usual for MM - both.

[Phateless]

I know he's not. I guess I only question it because of the huge investment I've made already.

 

Jerry Springer? LOL. Back in the good ol' days when he was home with the ex-wife and seeing me on the side he used to "joke" about having a 3-some. I don't think it was completely a joke, so I "jokingly" told him he was an a**hole for even joking about that.

 

My sister, the psychology major, mentioned to me the term "sunk costs." After a certain point you just have to accept that everything you already invested is lost, and the best move is not to invest further.

[Brokenlady]

Four years of my life. All an illusion. That's so hard to swallow. I thought it meant something when he moved out. I thought it meant something when he divorced. I thought the engagement meant something. Or rather, that was all stuff I wanted to have meaning, but it just didn't mean what I wanted it to in reality. I thought he loved me, but was just too weak to do what he needed to do. If I live to be a million, I will never understand why it had to be this way. It hurts so badly.

[Brokenlady]

My sister, the psychology major, mentioned to me the term "sunk costs." After a certain point you just have to accept that everything you already invested is lost, and the best move is not to invest further.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs Interesting. So I have two choices here:

 

1) Suffering with his emotional cheating with his ex-wife, and the insecurity, fights and loss of self-esteem that entails.

 

2) Suffer being alone for awhile & feel rejected, but having the chance to meet someone new.

 

Looks like a no-brainer does it? But I'm going to be in pain either way.

[justforfun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs Interesting. So I have two choices here:

 

1) Suffering with his emotional cheating with his ex-wife, and the insecurity, fights and loss of self-esteem that entails.

 

2) Suffer being alone for awhile & feel rejected, but having the chance to meet someone new.

 

Looks like a no-brainer does it? But I'm going to be in pain either way.

 

Yeah but option#2 is like having your arm chopped off in a guillotine.

Option #1 is like having it slowly ground through a meat mincer.

 

And anyway...they can sow anything back on these days.

[OWoman]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs Interesting. So I have two choices here:

 

1) Suffering with his emotional cheating with his ex-wife, and the insecurity, fights and loss of self-esteem that entails.

 

2) Suffer being alone for awhile & feel rejected, but having the chance to meet someone new.

 

Looks like a no-brainer does it? But I'm going to be in pain either way.

 

Option 2 is short-term pain. You recover and move on.

 

Option 1 is forever pain... until you become numb.

 

 

 

You're already in pain. It's nothing new. The only choice is whether you want a scenario where the pain has an eventual endpoint through moving on to something new, and better, or an endpoint in misery, despair and numbness. I really don't see any other choices here.