His Needs vs. Her Needs- Can't Achieve Compromise

[Brokenlady]

Yeah but option#2 is like having your arm chopped off in a guillotine.

Option #1 is like having it slowly ground through a meat mincer.

 

And anyway...they can sow anything back on these days.

 

LMAO! I have little to laugh about today, so caught up in tears. I needed that, thank you.

[Brokenlady]

Option 2 is short-term pain. You recover and move on.

 

Option 1 is forever pain... until you become numb.

 

 

 

You're already in pain. It's nothing new. The only choice is whether you want a scenario where the pain has an eventual endpoint through moving on to something new, and better, or an endpoint in misery, despair and numbness. I really don't see any other choices here.

 

Thank you. That helps put it in perspective. It is just so hard to come to terms with.

 

He texted me to say that he is disappointed in me. He thought I understood when he told me it was going to be a long process for him. I said that I got disappointed too, I was thinking that certainly by now he would be able to meet my needs. He agreed that it was best that we move on. But he couldn't resist a little threat - he won't contact me when he finally has boundaries with his ex-wife because he "knows" I will have moved on (and a little bit of spite). He said he knows I will be happier without him. I agreed. We talked about returning house keys and I told him I needed some time to do that. In a few weeks, I will pop them in the mail, I guess.

 

Going home from work early today to see my therapist.

[OWoman]

He texted me to say that he is disappointed in me. He thought I understood when he told me it was going to be a long process for him.

 

It's still all about him, for him.

 

The sad thing is, even if you were the perfect little fiancee, waiting meekly while he got his act together - it wouldn't end there. You'd have created an entrenched pattern of it being all about him, of his needs taking precedence and yours being put on the backburner, simmering away in building resentment. The time will never come for him to say, right, let's get down to meeting YOUR needs now because I'm doing just great... He'll become so used to you taking care of him that the threat of you withdrawing that and expecting him to stand on his own two feet will seem like a rejection. (Or, he'll come to resent you for being "the sorted one" taking care of him - and he'll feel emasculated in the R and will start acting out)

 

I wouldn't worry about his "threat" though - the chances of him drawing "appropriate" boundaries with his xW are so remote (unless she draws them, for her own sanity) since he doesn't even recognise this as a problem.

 

Hang in there.

[Phateless]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunk_costs Interesting. So I have two choices here:

 

1) Suffering with his emotional cheating with his ex-wife, and the insecurity, fights and loss of self-esteem that entails.

 

2) Suffer being alone for awhile & feel rejected, but having the chance to meet someone new.

 

Looks like a no-brainer does it? But I'm going to be in pain either way.

 

1) Indefinite and probably permanent with very little return.

 

2) Finite and short-term, with infinite potential for return.

 

Invest in the short-term pain for the longer term goal of finding a genuine and true connection.

[jj33]

Oh honey Im so sorry. DONT give back the ring. SELL IT.

 

And give back the keys ASAP. This bs that he knows you will have moved on is more passive aggressive BS hoping you will say no i will never move on I love you and he will say well then you need to (basically put up with my cr*p for as long as it takes)

 

Im so sorry it has come to this. It must seem unreal...

 

Big hugs

[Brokenlady]

It's still all about him, for him.

 

The sad thing is, even if you were the perfect little fiancee, waiting meekly while he got his act together - it wouldn't end there. You'd have created an entrenched pattern of it being all about him, of his needs taking precedence and yours being put on the backburner, simmering away in building resentment. The time will never come for him to say, right, let's get down to meeting YOUR needs now because I'm doing just great... He'll become so used to you taking care of him that the threat of you withdrawing that and expecting him to stand on his own two feet will seem like a rejection. (Or, he'll come to resent you for being "the sorted one" taking care of him - and he'll feel emasculated in the R and will start acting out)

 

I wouldn't worry about his "threat" though - the chances of him drawing "appropriate" boundaries with his xW are so remote (unless she draws them, for her own sanity) since he doesn't even recognise this as a problem.

 

Hang in there.

 

I think this post was incredibly insightful and probably completely correct. Thank you.

[Brokenlady]

Still hurting a lot today. He called last night. I let the machine get it. Just told me he loved me and wanted me to know that he knows he has to speed things up with his ex-wife. So I cried for about an hour, watched a movie and went to bed.

 

I have another somewhat related soap opera occupying me today. My daughter told me that my xH's girlfriend moved in. So, since she's spending a lot of time around my kids, i did a little reasearch. Turns out she's been married less than a year and hadn't moved out from her H's until after September, at the very least. My xH has been with her at least 6 months. She only filed for divorce last week. And it gets better, this woman is the same woman (I hadn't out it together before) that was aggressively hitting on the ex-fiance 2 weeks ago at his office. So either she's playing my xH or he's manipulating to try to get personal information about me. Either way, she's a real peach to have around my kids.

 

Does it get any better? Why me?

[jj33]

by ex fiancee do you mean mm now dm? Or someone you were engaged to prior to meeting your exH?

[Brokenlady]

by ex fiancee do you mean mm now dm? Or someone you were engaged to prior to meeting your exH?

 

I meant DM. It's completely random. I couldn't make this crap up. As long as she's good to my kids, I guess I don't much care what she does. I hope for xH's sake though that she isn't the skank she appears to be.

[justforfun]

Still hurting a lot today. He called last night. I let the machine get it. Just told me he loved me and wanted me to know that he knows he has to speed things up with his ex-wife. So I cried for about an hour, watched a movie and went to bed.

 

I'm sorry for your pain. But I like the way that you are dealing with it. Cry, movie, bed. Sounds like self-care. Very important for you right now. I really commend you for that, really.

 

I have another somewhat related soap opera occupying me today. My daughter told me that my xH's girlfriend moved in. So, since she's spending a lot of time around my kids, i did a little reasearch. Turns out she's been married less than a year and hadn't moved out from her H's until after September, at the very least. My xH has been with her at least 6 months. She only filed for divorce last week. And it gets better, this woman is the same woman (I hadn't out it together before) that was aggressively hitting on the ex-fiance 2 weeks ago at his office. So either she's playing my xH or he's manipulating to try to get personal information about me. Either way, she's a real peach to have around my kids.

 

Does it get any better? Why me?

 

Don't make the mistake of intertwining these issues and letting them overwhelm you. That would make you vulnerable to giving into the xMM.

 

These are two separate issues that require two different heads on to deal with. One you are the partner, lover, confused xstbW. In the other you are a parent being concerned for your children. You've done your research. That's a good thing. And in the way that you write it sounds like you were not anywhere near stalking her Facebook page! But now you have that information that is something to be mindful of. Which sounds exactly where you are going with it.

[Brokenlady]

I'm sorry for your pain. But I like the way that you are dealing with it. Cry, movie, bed. Sounds like self-care. Very important for you right now. I really commend you for that, really.

 

 

 

Don't make the mistake of intertwining these issues and letting them overwhelm you. That would make you vulnerable to giving into the xMM.

 

These are two separate issues that require two different heads on to deal with. One you are the partner, lover, confused xstbW. In the other you are a parent being concerned for your children. You've done your research. That's a good thing. And in the way that you write it sounds like you were not anywhere near stalking her Facebook page! But now you have that information that is something to be mindful of. Which sounds exactly where you are going with it.

 

You're right. I make use of easily available public web court record searches and google. That's all.

[jj33]

As crushing as all this is, and I cant imagine how crushing it must be ((Broken)) it is lucky to an extent. A near miss.

 

You were ENGAGED to someone who is behaving like this now before you are married.

 

If you had continued to go along with it all thinking "things will change in time" you could be posting in 3 years saying i was the OW, I was understanding when we got engaged that he was fresh out of his marriage, and now nothing has changed.

 

Im sorry but he is being incredibly selfish. And you are being incredibly strong.

 

He needs to man up and take responsibility for his feelings.

 

He needs to acknowledge that he made a mistake giving you an engagement ring before he had processed his divorce and the termination of his marriage.

 

Its great that he loves you and wanted to let you know that he wanted to spend the rest of his life with you, but it was premature. And that is boldly written all over his behavior.

 

The problem is he wont do that. He is acting like its all fine and normal. Its fine and normal IF you arent engaged and IF you give him 3-6 months or however long he needs to process everything before getting closely involved again.

 

Some people are emotionally "out" by the time they divorce. He clearly wasnt. So he needs that time. Hes giving it to himself but at your expense and that is not good.

 

It also doesnt bode well for how he would handle conflict in your marriage (if things had progressed). Has he learned NOTHING from the past?

 

Take good care

[fooled once]

BL

 

((hug))

 

I am so glad you let the machine get his pathetic voicemail.

 

I think this entire relationship has been so sad for you.

 

BUT - you did learn something from it!

 

(1) do not date mm

 

(2) you learned about YOU

 

(3) hopefully, you learned you will NEVER EVER again be someone's 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc priority. You WILL be #1

 

(4) you learned what YOU need to be happy

 

He isn't worthy of your love. Go where you can be celebrated and appreciated. Can you image Christmas? He would be rushing over there to spend Christmas with her and his kids. He would be having dinner with them. He would be making sure the "kids" got her gifts.

 

He isn't emotionally divorced from her; and I am not sure if/when he ever will be.

 

I am divorced. I couldn't get my ex to move out fast enough. I packed 1/2 the house for him. I wanted him out so badly.

 

I didn't call him to come do things at the house. I MOWED the huge yard. I racked the leaves. I cleaned the snow off the driveway.

 

Had he showed up to do anything I would have told him to get lost. I didn't need him to do anything.

 

Your FORMER fiance is using the kids as an excuse to continue to be in her life. My H has kids from a former marriage. Never did he think it was his responsibility to help her around the house. He has his kids at his house on his time. Sure he missed out on somethings, but that is part of divorce.

 

 

I am sorry you are hurting, but I would much rather you hurt NOW than continue to stay in a relationship where you are minimized.

 

Take time to grieve the ending; but put a period on the end of this relationship. You deserve so much more, I hope you know that. Never settle for fear of being alone. Much better to be alone and happy than alone in a relationship where you are miserable.

 

I don't think you have much more to say to him. He cannot meet your needs and don't you dare let him minimize your needs anymore!

 

I wish you much luck in your grieving process.

[jj33]

And Broken I think you have passed a big hurdle. There is a part of us that wants to "be right". Having invested so much, sometimes we stay in things because we think, Ive gone this far, invested my heart and soul and everything else, put everything on the line for this I cant quit now.

 

If I stay just a little bit longer thing will turn around.

 

But youve past that point. At this point its bad energy after good.

 

Im so proud of you that you are not jumping now when he contacts you.

 

Big hugs

[justforfun]

And maybe this won't apply to you but maybe it will. If you find yourself slipping back a bit, forgive yourself. It's understandable to be stronger some days than others. But if you give in once it doesn't mean that you've failed. It can all be a part of the process of moving forward. Two steps forward, one step back. Just remember what it is you have, what you need adn what you need to do to get there.

 

You have a man that is no good for you. You need to be over that relationship. And do whatever it takes to get there.

 

(hop over to the thread I started on my trying to understand my lack of need for commitment..Calendula has posted some amazing advice on there...some of it may help you...from about page 3 onwards)

[Brokenlady]

Can you image Christmas? He would be rushing over there to spend Christmas with her and his kids. He would be having dinner with them. He would be making sure the "kids" got her gifts.

 

He isn't emotionally divorced from her; and I am not sure if/when he ever will be.

 

Yes, I can imagine that he'll stay overnight at her place Christmas Eve (despite earlier promises not to) and not seeing him at all that day. I can imagine sitting at home by myself after my kids have gone to their father's house in the afternoon. And it makes me both sad and angry.

 

You're totally right about the lack of emotional divorce. It was like the divorce was this hot potato they threw around just to hurt each other, but neither of them wanted it. And after all this time, one can bet it will be a very long time, if ever, until he manages an emotional divorce. I think he will have to be one of those people that has to learn the hard way. I think he has to move back in with her for a week or two and have her make his life a living hell to get his closure.

 

I am divorced. I couldn't get my ex to move out fast enough. I packed 1/2 the house for him. I wanted him out so badly.

 

I didn't call him to come do things at the house. I MOWED the huge yard. I racked the leaves. I cleaned the snow off the driveway.

 

Had he showed up to do anything I would have told him to get lost. I didn't need him to do anything.

 

Yeah, me too. And when I tell DM this stuff, he gets all mad - that I'm trying to force him to do things "my" way because I think it's "better" (arrogant). But he's always there doing laundry, cooking, carpet cleaning, lightbulb changing, etc. He has even grocery shopped for her numerous times (with his own money, on top of child support) and unpacked and put them away for her. She often asks him to complete these tasks (to in effect keep him in the mindset of being household husband), but oftentimes he does this stuff on his own. He hassles her about how she budgets (and honestly I figure this is not only none of his concern, but none of his business!). He spied on her Facebook page and noted she might be dating soon. All of these things that normal people who want to be away from each other don't do.

 

He has his kids at his house on his time. Sure he missed out on somethings, but that is part of divorce.

 

And this is part of what he can't handle. He doesn't want to give anything up. He flatly refuses. I think in his mind it would be the equivalent of choosing me over his kids because now he says he would have stayed with her were it not for falling in love with me. (all my fault, of course).

 

 

I don't think you have much more to say to him. He cannot meet your needs and don't you dare let him minimize your needs anymore!

 

I can think of all those times where he'd shush me or walk outside with the phone (so his ex-wife wouldn't hear background noise). He continued to do that even after she told him she knew exactly why he was doing that. He said he "hoped I didn't find that insulting". Of course it's insulting. How could that NOT be insulting? He'd ask me to hide my car in his garage and a whole bunch of other nonsense to essentially erase my existence when it came to his ex-wife. He'd be relieved if there was a near miss to her seeing something of mine. It was sickening, and heartbreaking.

 

He swore things would be different once the divorce was final. He wouldn't hide me anymore. That came and went and nothing changed. Now I'm supposed to wait around for her to get a boyfriend. At the end of the day, my realtionship with him is fully contingent upon her, her moods, her action, her her her. Never us. So, in reality, there is no "us". He said he doesn't know how to get beyond his guilt. He can't shake it, and it's worse now that his ex has stopped her hot pursuit. He said that I should "know" that he's never going back because he's withstood so much pressure to do so and has not, but what does that really mean when he's never really left in the 1st place? Whether he goes back or not isn't even really a concern, its the never really leaving, the emotional marriage remaining.

 

I wish you much luck in your grieving process.

 

Thank you.

[fooled once]

How are you doing today??

[Brokenlady]

How are you doing today??

 

Not well. Work is slow and so I have too much time to think. He came by unannounced yesterday. Stupidly I opened the door. He started talking about nonsense stuff, day to day trivialities, as if nothing happened. I guess I stood there listening hoping that he'd experienced some sort of epiphany and could say something that would move me. Finally I asked him what the point of the visit was. He said "I just wanted to see you." After a long while he said: "I know I have to speed things up, that I can't keep going along like this." I said that he can take as much time as he wants, I just can't sit here and wait for some external event to our relationship to change things. It's been too long. He started getting annoyed, and went on about how much he gave up "for me" and then threw in a line about how he knows I have suffered, but he figures that "we're even." Completely delusional. I have never, nor could I ever treat someone the way he has treated me as second best for so long.

 

And of course he noticed I wasn't wearing the ring and basically accused me of trolling for men already. And he complained that I was being mean to him, calling him a "sap" for caving to his ex-wife's constant demands and manipulations. (I did say that, and I stand by it). Later, in a moment of weakness, I asked him to stay overnight with me (it was late) and he gave me some lame excuse. I believe he must have been expecting a call from his ex-wife or something similar such that he didn't want to be "caught" being with me at my house. I got mad all over again and he left. Then I cried. A lot.

 

I made me so mad that he did that because when we talked he said he knows I will be happier without him (only because he was hoping I would protest), and I said : "I know I will," and I meant it. It was understood that he needed to leave me alone to stop hurting me. But he's too selfish to even do that. Too selfish to set boundaries with the ex-wife and put me first, and too selfish to let me go based on his unwillingness to do the first thing.

 

I vasciallate between anger and sadness. I imagine he's at his house losing a great deal of sleep trying to figure out what kind of stunt he can pull to get my attention and distract from the fact that he still wants to have it both ways. That seems to be his pattern. He seems to know that the problem is his - not his ex-wife, not mine, and that if he can't make it work with either of us, he's going to be very lonely because he won't be able to make it work with anyone. Faced with that reality, he won't let either of us go. Changing himself just doesn't seem to be a viable option for him.

 

I am trying to keep the perspective that who I want him to be and who he is are two completely different things. I know you are right about the holidays. I even told him so at some point. It is better that I be away from him and have no expectations than to be crushed when he inevitably lets me down.

[fooled once]

Not well. Work is slow and so I have too much time to think. He came by unannounced yesterday. Stupidly I opened the door. He started talking about nonsense stuff, day to day trivialities, as if nothing happened. I guess I stood there listening hoping that he'd experienced some sort of epiphany and could say something that would move me. Finally I asked him what the point of the visit was. He said "I just wanted to see you." After a long while he said: "I know I have to speed things up, that I can't keep going along like this." I said that he can take as much time as he wants, I just can't sit here and wait for some external event to our relationship to change things. It's been too long. He started getting annoyed, and went on about how much he gave up "for me" and then threw in a line about how he knows I have suffered, but he figures that "we're even." EVEN? What is he, 2? EVEN? How did you make him suffer? WTF is he even talking about? We're even? He thinks because you hurt him some how, it is okay that he has hurt you in such a bone crushing way ~ because it makes you even? WTF? He is completely delusional. Completely delusional. I have never, nor could I ever treat someone the way he has treated me as second best for so long. You are right, you couldn't treat someone like that because you aren't a self centered, pansy who is emotionally tied to someone.

 

And of course he noticed I wasn't wearing the ring and basically accused me of trolling for men already. Yeah, in between the bouts of tears and anger, you have gone out to a bar trolling for the next guy Did I mention he is delusional????

 

And he complained that I was being mean to him, calling him a "sap" for caving to his ex-wife's constant demands and manipulations. (I did say that, and I stand by it). Hey, you called it like you see it and Later, in a moment of weakness, I asked him to stay overnight with me (it was late) and he gave me some lame excuse. I believe he must have been expecting a call from his ex-wife or something similar such that he didn't want to be "caught" being with me at my house. I got mad all over again and he left. Then I cried. A lot. I can only image how badly you are kicking yourself for that moment of weakness and then to have him not stay. I am so sorry.

 

I made me so mad that he did that because when we talked he said he knows I will be happier without him (only because he was hoping I would protest), and I said : "I know I will," and I meant it. It was understood that he needed to leave me alone to stop hurting me. But he's too selfish to even do that. Too selfish to set boundaries with the ex-wife and put me first, and too selfish to let me go based on his unwillingness to do the first thing. He isn't just selfish, he is a jerk. He is so centered on HIS needs. His WANTS. His exwife and you. Something is keeping him tied to her besides the kids. I truly believe he is emotionally tied to her. I think he still cares for her and is hoping if he stays around, she will take him back.

 

I vasciallate between anger and sadness. I imagine he's at his house losing a great deal of sleep trying to figure out what kind of stunt he can pull to get my attention and distract from the fact that he still wants to have it both ways. That seems to be his pattern. He seems to know that the problem is his - not his ex-wife, not mine, and that if he can't make it work with either of us, he's going to be very lonely because he won't be able to make it work with anyone. Faced with that reality, he won't let either of us go. Changing himself just doesn't seem to be a viable option for him. I will repeat that he is a very selfish human being. He knows that his inability to emotionally distance himself from his ex wife is hurting you; yet he refuses to do anything to change it. Instead, he wants you to learn to deal with it. And you should NOT learn to deal with it because you deserve to have him emotionally tied to you. It seems like had has no real issue hurting you, since he continues to do it over and over and over. He is putting his ex wives needs/wants ahead of yours ~ the woman he asked to marry him. That is screwed up.

 

I am trying to keep the perspective that who I want him to be and who he is are two completely different things. I know you are right about the holidays. I even told him so at some point. It is better that I be away from him and have no expectations than to be crushed when he inevitably lets me down. You are dead right - he is going to let you down again when he is at his ex wives house playing family during the holidays while you sit home alone.

 

I am so sorry. I am too lazy to do quotes so I put my thoughts/views in bold above.

[NowhereToHide]

Fooled... you ROCK.

[jj33]

Oh sweetie... Im so sorry. Look I know you arent ready to give back keys etc...

 

But if you can find it within yourself, CHANGE THE LOCKS. Do it for you.

 

You dont need the exchange with him and you dont need him showing up unannounced at your door with the ability to come in if you are not answering.

 

And the COLASSAL NERVE of him to make a remark about the fact that you arent wearing the ring.

 

Ill be generous and say he is confused, very very confused. But so confused that he is dangerous to your emotional well being.

 

Im so sorry you are going through this.

 

Big hugs

[HarmonyHope]

I am so sorry. I am too lazy to do quotes so I put my thoughts/views in bold above.

oops, didn't mean to post this here.

Edited November 24, 2009 by HarmonyHope

[Brokenlady]

I guess I made him suffer by forcing him to make a choice. By complaining about my needs not being met. About causing him to think about the fact that the problem is him. Somehow he figures that "anguish" is comparable to innumerable nights alone, crying in bed, and being sold out at nearly every possible oppurtunity. Call me immature, but yes, I do think my wounds are bigger and bleed more. I don't feel I inflicted much on him. His pain is caused by his choices, not my complaints. My pain is also caused by his choices, and my own.

 

He is still emotionally tied to her but he isn't hoping she'll take him back, he just wants the option open. She's been begging him to come home the whole time. Now that she's stepping back a bit I think he's squirming because although he doesn't want to go back to her, he wants to have the choice, mostly because he hasn't fully let go.

 

Yes it's funny how I've changed things he said were hurtful to him, even if I thought they were dumb. He will not return the favor. It's almost a passive-aggressive thing like: I left my wife for you, and blame you for the associated pain, so now I'm going to do whatever I want to do and screw you if you don't like it. He chooses to do things he knows will hurt me just so he can keep options open with his xW. I think that's incredibly disrespectful to me (and her too). He even asked me at some point if he treated me badly. I almost laughed. He just doesn't get it. I said if you think that what you're doing- still acting like her partner and hiding me from the one person who apprently matters is treating me well then we have a fundamental perception conflict.

 

You know, he refuses to get a Christmas tree at his house. He is going to have one celebration at his ex's house and will likely spend the whole day there. I understand not wanting to do 2 christmases the first year out, but we went through this same thing last year! It's like he doesn't want to decorate or do anything to distract from the fact that his "reaL' place is with his ex-wife. Like last year, he will be with her all day and it is understood that I can't even call him up there to see how his day is going because I'm not supposed to exist to his ex-wife. The more I think about it I am sure our holiday season would have been nothing but more fights and tears.

 

Crying again this morning. Wish I could go home and nap for a week or two.

[fooled once]

I guess I made him suffer by forcing him to make a choice. By complaining about my needs not being met. About causing him to think about the fact that the problem is him. Somehow he figures that "anguish" is comparable to innumerable nights alone, crying in bed, and being sold out at nearly every possible oppurtunity. Call me immature, but yes, I do think my wounds are bigger and bleed more. I don't feel I inflicted much on him. His pain is caused by his choices, not my complaints. My pain is also caused by his choices, and my own.

 

He is still emotionally tied to her but he isn't hoping she'll take him back, he just wants the option open. She's been begging him to come home the whole time. Now that she's stepping back a bit I think he's squirming because although he doesn't want to go back to her, he wants to have the choice, mostly because he hasn't fully let go.

 

Yes it's funny how I've changed things he said were hurtful to him, even if I thought they were dumb. He will not return the favor. It's almost a passive-aggressive thing like: I left my wife for you, and blame you for the associated pain, so now I'm going to do whatever I want to do and screw you if you don't like it. He chooses to do things he knows will hurt me just so he can keep options open with his xW. I think that's incredibly disrespectful to me (and her too). He even asked me at some point if he treated me badly. I almost laughed. He just doesn't get it. I said if you think that what you're doing- still acting like her partner and hiding me from the one person who apprently matters is treating me well then we have a fundamental perception conflict.

 

You know, he refuses to get a Christmas tree at his house. He is going to have one celebration at his ex's house and will likely spend the whole day there. I understand not wanting to do 2 christmases the first year out, but we went through this same thing last year! It's like he doesn't want to decorate or do anything to distract from the fact that his "reaL' place is with his ex-wife. Like last year, he will be with her all day and it is understood that I can't even call him up there to see how his day is going because I'm not supposed to exist to his ex-wife. The more I think about it I am sure our holiday season would have been nothing but more fights and tears.

 

Crying again this morning. Wish I could go home and nap for a week or two.

 

The last paragraph which I bolded --- what a complete jack a**. Seriously.

 

I can't image us not having a tree for when my H's kids came over. But then again, his kids don't need to go to his house because he is always at the ex's house.

 

I am sorry he has hurt you this way. BL, he isn't going to change. He isn't going to realize he can't have it both ways ~ he can't be divorced and be there all the time yet expect you to be engaged to him and deal with this. This is so incredibly disrespectful. I am sickened by the fact that your (hopefully former) fiance spends the entire day with his EX wife and you can't even talk to him. I know for a fact that there is plenty of time during Christmas to talk to the one you love. The first year H and I were dating, I had gone to visit my parents for Christmas (with my son) and I spent most of the day on the phone with him and we weren't even engaged yet. I couldn't wait to get home to spend time with him.

 

I hope you know that this isn't a real relationship. It is like he got engaged to keep someone one the side in case things don't go well with the EX. He is such a jerk. He just expects you to sit quietly by and wait for whenever he has time for you and he is DIVORCED!! Ugh....

 

What are your Thanksgiving plans?

[Nodoal]

I have read a few of the posts and all i can say is stay strong. This guy is some piece of work, and you need to do to make sure that his crazy logic doesnt infect you.

 

He is damaged, and the more contact he has with you the more you'll start to believe that confused man.

 

Do whatever it takes, listen to your voice of reason. Deep down im sure you know whats right for you.