His Needs vs. Her Needs- Can't Achieve Compromise

[OpenBook]

Yes it's funny how I've changed things he said were hurtful to him, even if I thought they were dumb. He will not return the favor. It's almost a passive-aggressive thing like: I left my wife for you, and blame you for the associated pain, so now I'm going to do whatever I want to do and screw you if you don't like it. He chooses to do things he knows will hurt me just so he can keep options open with his xW. I think that's incredibly disrespectful to me (and her too). He even asked me at some point if he treated me badly. I almost laughed. He just doesn't get it. I said if you think that what you're doing- still acting like her partner and hiding me from the one person who apprently matters is treating me well then we have a fundamental perception conflict.

 

Yes, he is not treating you well at all, hands down, no question. But I wonder if it has more to do with THE WAY YOUR RELATIONSHIP STARTED as opposed to whether he is "delusional" or "a jerk" as others seem to think. (I highly doubt you would have fallen in love with a delusional jerk in the first place!!)

 

In my experience, you (the general "you") have to train 'em early in any romantic relationship. The things that happen at the very beginning of the relationship have a lot to do with how a man ends up treating you later. If you accepted whatever he dished out as his OW, and now you're demanding more from him - well, most men just can't make that switch, even when the terms of the relationship have been re-negotiated. He still sees you and thinks of you the same as he did at the very beginning of your relationship.

 

I believe that most post-D fMM/fOW situations don't work out in the long-term for this very reason.

 

Just a thought. I am very sorry this isn't working out the way you wanted it to. But (from reading your posts here) I am quite confident in your ability to land on your own two perfectly capable feet... although this one is probably going to take awhile to sort through. [[hugs]]

[OWoman]

Yes, he is not treating you well at all, hands down, no question. But I wonder if it has more to do with THE WAY YOUR RELATIONSHIP STARTED as opposed to whether he is "delusional" or "a jerk" as others seem to think. (I highly doubt you would have fallen in love with a delusional jerk in the first place!!)

 

In my experience, you (the general "you") have to train 'em early in any romantic relationship. The things that happen at the very beginning of the relationship have a lot to do with how a man ends up treating you later. If you accepted whatever he dished out as his OW, and now you're demanding more from him - well, most men just can't make that switch, even when the terms of the relationship have been re-negotiated. He still sees you and thinks of you the same as he did at the very beginning of your relationship.

 

I believe that most post-D fMM/fOW situations don't work out in the long-term for this very reason.

 

Just a thought. I am very sorry this isn't working out the way you wanted it to. But (from reading your posts here) I am quite confident in your ability to land on your own two perfectly capable feet... although this one is probably going to take awhile to sort through. [[hugs]]

 

There's a lot of sense in this. The same way it's easier for a MM to D a BW he's begun to disrespect (by having an A) and start afresh in a new, respectful R with someone else than to try to build a respectful M with the woman he's reduced in his eyes by his actions.... in the same way it's difficult to break the "old" patterns of an A that is based on fundamental disrespect and an imbalance of power and replace those with a healthier dynamic. Which is why I argue so strongly that OWs should establish, within the bounds of the A, the seeds of the R they'd like to have with the MM post-A (should that be what they want), rather than waiting "until he leaves".

 

Several people have argued here that the OW has little power in an A, and that it's really hard to change the A so that it is based on mutual respect, and on a healthier balance of power. I've argued that you get what you settle for - if you insist on being treated with respect you'll get that (yes, in an A) and if a particular MM isn't willing to offer that, then he's not worth being in ANY kind of R with (A or otherwise - who wants to be treated like rubbish?). It's a lot easier, IME, to set your expectations out clearly FROM THE OUTSET and stick to those, than to try to renegotiate new terms (more advantageous to you - and, possibly, materially less advantageous to him) down the track when you're already invested. Hoping that this will all change once your "status" shifts is optimistic. If he's not treating you with respect before, why should he suddenly "see the light" and change his behaviour later?

[Brokenlady]

I can't image us not having a tree for when my H's kids came over. But then again, his kids don't need to go to his house because he is always at the ex's house.

 

This is exactly his thinking.

 

I am sorry he has hurt you this way. BL, he isn't going to change. He isn't going to realize he can't have it both ways ~ he can't be divorced and be there all the time yet expect you to be engaged to him and deal with this. This is so incredibly disrespectful. I am sickened by the fact that your (hopefully former) fiance spends the entire day with his EX wife and you can't even talk to him. I know for a fact that there is plenty of time during Christmas to talk to the one you love. The first year H and I were dating, I had gone to visit my parents for Christmas (with my son) and I spent most of the day on the phone with him and we weren't even engaged yet. I couldn't wait to get home to spend time with him.

 

Well again, it shouldn't be a surprise to me because my place has always been on the outside. Pretending all is right as rain with the ex-wife has always taken pecedence over my feelings, so why should it be any different now? He can't figure out a way to mesh to the worlds...allow me to exist in his innnerworld with his kids without shattering the illusion that all is ok with his ex-wife and his marriage. For whatever reason, he needs to maintain that to keep guilt at bay, or something.

 

I hope you know that this isn't a real relationship. It is like he got engaged to keep someone one the side in case things don't go well with the EX. He is such a jerk. He just expects you to sit quietly by and wait for whenever he has time for you and he is DIVORCED!! Ugh....

 

Actually I think it's the opposite - he's keeping his ex-wife on the side in case it doesn't work out with me. But either way, it's really really wrong.

 

What are your Thanksgiving plans?

 

I'll be with my kids and a family member, and I'll have my kids most of the weekend because although it is my ex-husband's weekend, he will be working. So, at least I will not be totally alone. I will likely be totally alone from christmas afternoon on through the weekend, and that's going to be tough for me, especially knowing that DM will be up with his ex-wife playing emotional "dodgeball" or whatever it is they do.

[Brokenlady]

Yes, he is not treating you well at all, hands down, no question. But I wonder if it has more to do with THE WAY YOUR RELATIONSHIP STARTED as opposed to whether he is "delusional" or "a jerk" as others seem to think. (I highly doubt you would have fallen in love with a delusional jerk in the first place!!)

 

In my experience, you (the general "you") have to train 'em early in any romantic relationship. The things that happen at the very beginning of the relationship have a lot to do with how a man ends up treating you later. If you accepted whatever he dished out as his OW, and now you're demanding more from him - well, most men just can't make that switch, even when the terms of the relationship have been re-negotiated. He still sees you and thinks of you the same as he did at the very beginning of your relationship.

 

I believe that most post-D fMM/fOW situations don't work out in the long-term for this very reason.

 

Just a thought. I am very sorry this isn't working out the way you wanted it to. But (from reading your posts here) I am quite confident in your ability to land on your own two perfectly capable feet... although this one is probably going to take awhile to sort through. [[hugs]]

 

Well thank you validating that. He honestly has looked at me like a deer in headlights when I say he's not treating me well. He really doesn't see it. I'm supposed to fall over with gratitude just because he moved out and divorced even though I'm still treated like a mistress.

 

As to the rest of your post - yes, I've wondered if we were doomed from the start. I remind him of the fact that he is a cheater and he hates that part of himself. He kept saying that he left his ex-wife SOLELY to be with me. So, slow pace or no slow pace, he's resenting me already because I'm not in lockstep with being a good little girlfriend and accepting this crap anymore. The whole thing feels like it was doomed from the start. It may help me to think of it that way because I have a tendency to take his rejecting/disrespectful behaviors personally.

 

He said he can look at himself in the mirror and know that he tried the best he could with me. If he truly believes that, then it should be pretty obvious that nothing is going to change.

[Brokenlady]

He just forwarded me an email he sent to his ex-wife. It was full of complaints, the bulk of which was surrounding his indignation that she removed him from her health insurance. Now, he knew she was going to do this at some point, but apparently he discovered today that she did so 2 months ago without telling him. Funny thing is, he isn't all that pissed about her not giving him warning, he's pissed that she did it at all. Like she owes him the favor of paying for him to be on her health insurance because he gives her support and other financial help on top of that. That is so ridiculous! It is like he is calling her out because she stepped out of her "good wife" role. (You know, the role he claims he doesn't want her in anymore! ) WTF?

 

I'm sure he sent me the email to show me he's drawing a line in the sand with her, but ironically, it shows me the exact opposite. It is both infuriating and saddening.

[mem11363]

Really and truly. Until you do that he is going to see you as a free option. And he is going to want you as a backup if he is thinking about trying to move back home because he and his wife are going to have a LOT of tension for a while.

 

At this point you owe him nothing. I agree he truly wants you both chasing him - nicely though - and without any anger or resentment or jealousy.

 

Exactly what color are the clouds in his fantasy world?

 

 

He just forwarded me an email he sent to his ex-wife. It was full of complaints, the bulk of which was surrounding his indignation that she removed him from her health insurance. Now, he knew she was going to do this at some point, but apparently he discovered today that she did so 2 months ago without telling him. Funny thing is, he isn't all that pissed about her not giving him warning, he's pissed that she did it at all. Like she owes him the favor of paying for him to be on her health insurance because he gives her support and other financial help on top of that. That is so ridiculous! It is like he is calling her out because she stepped out of her "good wife" role. (You know, the role he claims he doesn't want her in anymore! ) WTF?

 

I'm sure he sent me the email to show me he's drawing a line in the sand with her, but ironically, it shows me the exact opposite. It is both infuriating and saddening.

[fooled once]

There's a lot of sense in this. The same way it's easier for a MM to D a BW he's begun to disrespect (by having an A) and start afresh in a new, respectful R with someone else than to try to build a respectful M with the woman he's reduced in his eyes by his actions.... in the same way it's difficult to break the "old" patterns of an A that is based on fundamental disrespect and an imbalance of power and replace those with a healthier dynamic. Which is why I argue so strongly that OWs should establish, within the bounds of the A, the seeds of the R they'd like to have with the MM post-A (should that be what they want), rather than waiting "until he leaves".

 

Several people have argued here that the OW has little power in an A, and that it's really hard to change the A so that it is based on mutual respect, and on a healthier balance of power. I've argued that you get what you settle for - if you insist on being treated with respect you'll get that (yes, in an A) and if a particular MM isn't willing to offer that, then he's not worth being in ANY kind of R with (A or otherwise - who wants to be treated like rubbish?). It's a lot easier, IME, to set your expectations out clearly FROM THE OUTSET and stick to those, than to try to renegotiate new terms (more advantageous to you - and, possibly, materially less advantageous to him) down the track when you're already invested. Hoping that this will all change once your "status" shifts is optimistic. If he's not treating you with respect before, why should he suddenly "see the light" and change his behaviour later?

 

OW, I do agree that people in relationships should let it be known up front what they expect, how they expect to be treated, etc.

 

But when you (general you) are sneaking around, stealing moments, waiting by the phone, etc., isn't it hard to establish what you really want later? I mean, you (general you) put up with the stolen moments, etc in the beginning because that is what many affairs are..... but that is not how true relationships start. There is a dating process, going out together, calling without it being a 'quick call' in case the wife comes in, or you go out to "the store" (when in reality, the MM only agreed to go to the store so he could call the OW). I think it is hard as an OW in the beginning to start making demands of time when in reality, the MM can't give that. They can't take the OW to the local cafe in case the wife or one of her friends is there.

 

UNLESS - Like GEL did - she said "Nope - I am not doing that" (not those exact words obviously ) but she made it known UPFRONT she wasn't going to play that game.

 

But it is the rare OW that does that, from my experiences and from what I read on here. More OW are more than willing to be the ones waiting, and waiting and waiting for that quick call, the quick stop over on the way home, etc.

 

In BL's case, she became the fiance. That is totally different than the OW.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that ANY person in a relationship should be treated with respect. But isn't the terms of an affair already disrespectful since he isn't really 'hers' to begin with and he technically disrespects her by going home to his wife? By going on vacation with his wife? I mean, if 2 people were single, would any single woman feel respected if her boyfriend went on vacation with an ex girlfriend? Or went to dinner each night with an ex? I just don't get how a MM treats the OW with respect in that regard since he is technically already in a relationship with his wife and he has to respect her wishes of .... not having an affair?

 

I think you bring up an EXCELLENT point of respect. If my H when we were dating limited what he could give me because out of duty to someone else, then I wouldn't have been with him (the exception to this, IMHO, is children. I understood his schedule with the visitation of his children and respected that). BUT if every time we tried to make plans, he couldn't because of his kids, then we never could have gotten our relationship - the dating part - going if he was constantly putting his children's needs above mine. I have a child so I understand the needs of a child but I also had my own needs.

 

I don't think I am expressing myself well Too much on my mind about what all I have to do for Turkey day tomorrow!

[fooled once]

This is exactly his thinking.

 

Well again, it shouldn't be a surprise to me because my place has always been on the outside. Pretending all is right as rain with the ex-wife has always taken pecedence over my feelings, so why should it be any different now? He can't figure out a way to mesh to the worlds...allow me to exist in his innnerworld with his kids without shattering the illusion that all is ok with his ex-wife and his marriage. For whatever reason, he needs to maintain that to keep guilt at bay, or something.

 

Actually I think it's the opposite - he's keeping his ex-wife on the side in case it doesn't work out with me. But either way, it's really really wrong.

 

I'll be with my kids and a family member, and I'll have my kids most of the weekend because although it is my ex-husband's weekend, he will be working. So, at least I will not be totally alone. I will likely be totally alone from christmas afternoon on through the weekend, and that's going to be tough for me, especially knowing that DM will be up with his ex-wife playing emotional "dodgeball" or whatever it is they do.

 

I am sorry

 

I remember the 2nd Christmas with the MM I was seeing --- he was off with his wife on vacation -- while I sat at home... alone. My son had gone to his fathers for the day (thank God my ex was never good at exercising his visitation). I was absolutely miserable. I think this is when I really started thinking that I would NOT continue to live this way forever. We split for good 6 months later. Those 6 months were the most miserable of my life to date.

 

I hope by Christmas, you are much more well healed emotionally and it doesn't hurt as bad as you are predicting.

[fooled once]

He just forwarded me an email he sent to his ex-wife. It was full of complaints, the bulk of which was surrounding his indignation that she removed him from her health insurance. Now, he knew she was going to do this at some point, but apparently he discovered today that she did so 2 months ago without telling him. Funny thing is, he isn't all that pissed about her not giving him warning, he's pissed that she did it at all. Like she owes him the favor of paying for him to be on her health insurance because he gives her support and other financial help on top of that. That is so ridiculous! It is like he is calling her out because she stepped out of her "good wife" role. (You know, the role he claims he doesn't want her in anymore! ) WTF?

 

I'm sure he sent me the email to show me he's drawing a line in the sand with her, but ironically, it shows me the exact opposite. It is both infuriating and saddening.

 

He just truly doesn't get it. And you are right - it is the opposite. She has no obligation to keep him on the insurance. It actually sounds like for many things, she is semi-ready to give him up. But he keeps turning up like a bad penny.

 

I can't say I blame her for not stopping him from raking the leaves - I mean, free labor and she didn't have to do it. Wonder if he will rush over if it snows and shovel that too? I could have used him around when I was single.

 

Did he say anything in the email to you?

 

Does he not get that things are REALLY bad and you are seriously looking to end this relationship?

 

I do NOT think you are ready for dating. You can't just jump from one guy to another like some do. You don't need that headache in your life right now. I think you need time for YOU *hug* Dating would be a huge disaster because your heart is still with someone else and your heart is hurting. Wouldn't be fair to you or to any guy you might meet.

[Brokenlady]

I can't say I blame her for not stopping him from raking the leaves - I mean, free labor and she didn't have to do it. Wonder if he will rush over if it snows and shovel that too? I could have used him around when I was single.

 

It wasn't an act of volunteerism, she asked him to do it in a rather manipulative way. And she asks him to change lightbuls and I have no doubt she will ask him to shovel snow. But hopefully he gets the good sense to knock that crap off someday.

 

Did he say anything in the email to you?

No.

 

Does he not get that things are REALLY bad and you are seriously looking to end this relationship?

 

I think he gets it, he just feels helpless to change it. He really feels he's doing the best he can. And he knows it isn't good enough.

 

I do NOT think you are ready for dating. You can't just jump from one guy to another like some do. You don't need that headache in your life right now. I think you need time for YOU *hug* Dating would be a huge disaster because your heart is still with someone else and your heart is hurting. Wouldn't be fair to you or to any guy you might meet.

 

I tend to agree.

[Brokenlady]

The anger I have is really getting to me. It occurs to me that a lot of things I repressed from the time when he was still with his ex-wife is finally coming out now. I think that's why so many of even smaller things he does now piss me off so much - it isn't just what's happening now, it's a trigger to the years of being hidden and denied. It all leads back to all the hurt I had but didn't feel safe enough to express before he left the ex-wife for me. I was afraid he wouldn't leave at all and dump me if I complained.

 

Whatever happens, I have to find a way to let that anger go before it eats me alive. And to be fair, a good portion of that anger is at myself - afterall - it was my choice to invest 4 years of my life in this. At night, I visualize some of the most hurtful incidents, like pictures in a book I tear out, crumple and burn. I just don't know how to let this stuff go.

[White Flower]

The anger I have is really getting to me. It occurs to me that a lot of things I repressed from the time when he was still with his ex-wife is finally coming out now. I think that's why so many of even smaller things he does now piss me off so much - it isn't just what's happening now, it's a trigger to the years of being hidden and denied. It all leads back to all the hurt I had but didn't feel safe enough to express before he left the ex-wife for me. I was afraid he wouldn't leave at all and dump me if I complained.

 

Whatever happens, I have to find a way to let that anger go before it eats me alive. And to be fair, a good portion of that anger is at myself - afterall - it was my choice to invest 4 years of my life in this. At night, I visualize some of the most hurtful incidents, like pictures in a book I tear out, crumple and burn. I just don't know how to let this stuff go.

It sounds like you need to consider IC in order to learn how to let it go because you are right, if you don't it will eat you alive. Do it for you.

 

Big hugs.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

its interesting. after the A ended i am now very angry at how i allowed myself to be treated, and also how HE let me be treated. i am not less of a person, and if he loved me he wouldnt stand for me to be treated as such, let alone be the one doing it.

[White Flower]

its interesting. after the A ended i am now very angry at how i allowed myself to be treated, and also how HE let me be treated. i am not less of a person, and if he loved me he wouldnt stand for me to be treated as such, let alone be the one doing it.

I agree with this. There is no reason for any bad treatment at all. The least he could do is step up and protect the way you are treated and portrayed. You didn't do this all by yourself.

[howcouldInotknow]

Don't ignore the signs they are there. I was dating a separated man (long separation, Not recently separated) for about a year and a half. We got engaged. He had no contact with his STXW and then boom suddenly one day they are reconciling. I had no clue he still felt so strongly about her. She was never apart of our relationship. The sigs are all there for a reconciliation. Plus my XMM was the one who filed for a divorce. It might be hard but in the long run its an act of self preservation. Leave him alone and let them figure things out. He is in no way ready to let go of that marriage. So actions speak louder than words in my opinion

[pizzagirl]

Well you have the OM all figured out but act as if your complicity in your treatment YOU accept is all HIS fault. First Whose fault does not matter at this point. You are either going to choose to address that your kids need a mother capable of providing some home of emotional stability or not.

 

You are getting something from this drama. I won't begin to try to analyze why you would let someone treat you like a used dishrag and keep accepting lies as currency that only behavior proves to be of worth. You are still a side dish and as you describe it all you know this is true, but you still keep going back. You want to know the truth about this jerk, tell another trusted MALE figure, a father, or brother and you will get a knowing answer. But that does not matter. This drama has satisfied a need. If you really wanted an emotionally available man you would not have chosen and stayed with this guy.

 

You aptly describe this guy and all his behavior and you keep going back. So why don't you want an AVAILABLE man? Do they seem to needy or weak, or not independent. Do they not trip your trigger? next time he calls stand in front of a mirror and laugh at yourself and feel how connected you are to this drama and why you won't move on with your life. I would sau you need to talk to a professional but they WHY I choose unavailable men conversation at $150 an hour is pretty much a waste of time and money. Is WHY really important. When this guy gets you to demean yourself enough you may finally quit. My guess is He will quit You first and find a new patsy to listen to his Victim stories and another women who will want to save a little boy in mens clothing.

[Alpha Female]

And to be fair, a good portion of that anger is at myself - afterall - it was my choice to invest 4 years of my life in this.

 

This is so resonating. As OW, we are willing to put up with a lot, all because we one day hope the MM will leave the M for us. When he doesn't, then we feel like it was all a huge waste of time, and then we can only hate ourselves for feeling stupid for believing in it.

 

But I really think all of love and relationships is a big risk. There is no more guarantee of things working out dating a single man (though the odds are certainly better!). I dont think you can look back and beat yourself up on this Broken, because for years you believed in love, and were willing to take a chance it would work out. Just because it didnt, doesn't necessarily nullify your choice, but it might serve as a cautionary tool for the future. In that case, then whatever the ultimate outcome of this R, all of this has been a great learning experience, even though right now, today, you dont care to learn a thing. But in time, you will, and will grow from this.

 

Good times, bad times - all serve to strengthen and teach us.

 

Be good to yourself today.

[Brokenlady]

9 this may sound cruel, but it's not meant to be)

 

This guy cheated on his wife with you- that kind of tells you what he seesas "acceptable behavior' in himself. But now you expect him to be loyal and faithful to you? i have laways heard that past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior- maybe that's true, maybe not. But it does provide food for thought.

 

my best advice to you is to let this guy go, and find someone who is truly able to love you, and only you.

 

If you believe people can't change beyond their past behaviors, your going to have a real problem finding anyone who is acceptable. 80% of people's relationships are affected at some time or another by infidelity, so that means there are a lot of cheaters out there and that you are more likely to meet someone who has cheated in their past than not. So, if I rule out anyone who has ever cheated, ever used drugs, ever stolen something, etc - I figure ther'll be about 100 men left on earth who'll meet my criteria. That's not going to make for good odds.

 

Point is, I believe people can grow beyond their mistakes. If I didn't, I'd have no hope for myself.

[Brokenlady]

We're going to be going to couples counseling this week. I guess I feel like I have to try. I know he wants things to improve and I need to make some adjustments to myself too.

 

I really want to let the simmering anger go. I've been holding my ground about refusing to listen to any sentence that has his ex-wife's name in it (because they usually upset me as they illustrate how emotional their interactions still are). I can't stop him from acting or feeling any particular way, but I can at least not have to listen to it or waste any more mental energy on it. We have trust issues with each other - I worry he'll go back to his ex and he worries I'll leave him because he's done too much damage. I think at this point I would do best to fake faith in his commitment to me. It doesn't save me any hurt by being so guarded. And maybe, just maybe, if I can make myself safe enough for him, he'll find it easier to let go of her.

 

I really hope this counselor doesn't suck.

[carhill]

Thanks for updating.

 

IME, I saw the counseling process to be a positive. If the psychologist had not been a good fit, then we would have tried someone else, remaining confident in the process.

 

The holidays are a difficult time to be going through this. Our MC spanned two holiday seasons. Stay positive and take breaks (from counseling and/or 'dealing with this') as appropriate. Enjoy life.

[Brokenlady]

There are not a ton of options available to me through my insurance, but I could switch if we needed to. This therapist didn't immediately inspire a lot of confidence, but we did reschedule and I guess we'll see how the next session goes.

 

I got a bit annoyed because I sent the therapist a brief 2 page letter explaining who all the players were, how our relationship started, and the basic issues we wanted to address. He clearly didn't even look at it, but claimed he had and just "needed refreshing". So we started from scratch. He addressed with DM that his lack of boundaries with his ex is not only detrimental to our relationship, but also prevents his children from getting closure on the divorce. He suggested that he start seeing his IC more often (but I know that isn't going to happen) because he really needs to work through letting go of the marriage. He encouraged him to take small steps and tried to get him to agree to at least not be in his ex-wife's house anymore. I know I shouldn't be, but I was a bit surprised by his reaction. DM refused, got a bit indignant about how he "built that house" and feels admantly that his children like and want to see their parents together in the same house. He doesn't see that it can be upsetting and confusing for them given the long separation and divorce (as it is to my kids if my xH doesn't leave promptly after dropping them off.)

 

IMO, what he's doing is a bit of a bait and switch - providing the kids with a flimsy illusion of being together with their mother (which very often ends in fire-y arguments anyway). The therapist said that DM cannot live in that illusion forever, to which he agreed, but I know he still feels helpless to do anything because he's just unwilling to let go. DM said there's three people in the relationship, me, him, and his guilt.

 

DM said that part of why he is afraid to let go and fully embrace me is that he's afraid I'll leave him if he puts all his eggs in my basket. He says he knows I love him, but thinks I dislike him, and gets discouraged by my unhappiness at the lack of boundaries with his xW. I guess I just don't believe that if I pretended to be giddily ecstatic all the time that he'd be any more inclined to loosen the death grip on his marriage, and frankly, I prefer honesty.

 

I am scared, and sometimes I wake from awful nightmares surrounding the situation. I hope we all find some peace soon.

[Phateless]

There are not a ton of options available to me through my insurance, but I could switch if we needed to. This therapist didn't immediately inspire a lot of confidence, but we did reschedule and I guess we'll see how the next session goes.

 

I got a bit annoyed because I sent the therapist a brief 2 page letter explaining who all the players were, how our relationship started, and the basic issues we wanted to address. He clearly didn't even look at it, but claimed he had and just "needed refreshing". So we started from scratch. He addressed with DM that his lack of boundaries with his ex is not only detrimental to our relationship, but also prevents his children from getting closure on the divorce. He suggested that he start seeing his IC more often (but I know that isn't going to happen) because he really needs to work through letting go of the marriage. He encouraged him to take small steps and tried to get him to agree to at least not be in his ex-wife's house anymore. I know I shouldn't be, but I was a bit surprised by his reaction. DM refused, got a bit indignant about how he "built that house" and feels admantly that his children like and want to see their parents together in the same house. He doesn't see that it can be upsetting and confusing for them given the long separation and divorce (as it is to my kids if my xH doesn't leave promptly after dropping them off.)

 

IMO, what he's doing is a bit of a bait and switch - providing the kids with a flimsy illusion of being together with their mother (which very often ends in fire-y arguments anyway). The therapist said that DM cannot live in that illusion forever, to which he agreed, but I know he still feels helpless to do anything because he's just unwilling to let go. DM said there's three people in the relationship, me, him, and his guilt.

 

DM said that part of why he is afraid to let go and fully embrace me is that he's afraid I'll leave him if he puts all his eggs in my basket. He says he knows I love him, but thinks I dislike him, and gets discouraged by my unhappiness at the lack of boundaries with his xW. I guess I just don't believe that if I pretended to be giddily ecstatic all the time that he'd be any more inclined to loosen the death grip on his marriage, and frankly, I prefer honesty.

 

I am scared, and sometimes I wake from awful nightmares surrounding the situation. I hope we all find some peace soon.

 

You need to get out of this relationship. You are operating under the assumption that "...if we can just work this thing out, everything will be perfect!"

 

It doesn't work that way. This guy has major baggage and it will manifest itself in all sorts of different ways. You are doing this to yourself by staying with him.

[Brokenlady]

You need to get out of this relationship. You are operating under the assumption that "...if we can just work this thing out, everything will be perfect!"

 

No, he has a lot of work to do on himself. And in theory he's working on that in IC. But quite rightly, his IC is focused on him, and he needs to be reminded sometimes that his change doesn't occur in a vacuum, it all affects me too. The therapist didn't say anything to him that I haven't said to him before, but I can tell that he was more receptive having heard it from him.

 

His baggage is really heavy, and I have some of my own. That is why we're both in IC. We both need to heal ourselves, but it would be nice if we didn't lose sight of being together while we do it. It's worth a shot anyway.

[Alpha Female]

Broken - I like this therapist! He seems to have nailed DM's issues in one session. And I like that DM was honest about his actions, even if his rationale isn't the healthiest.

 

But, I do like that the therapist kept hammering him about how damaging his behavior was to your R. I think hearing this from someone who is not you, may help it actually sink in.

 

Keep up with it. Let's see if DM starts amending some behaviors.

[HarmonyHope]

It sounds like not much is going to change. Cut your losses.

Edited December 17, 2009 by HarmonyHope