Prayers are ALWAYS answered!

[JamesM]

But if God is omniscient, then he would have already known that man would fall into temptation and 'sin'. Why would a benevolent God set up man to fail and then bring down suffering upon him for doing so?

 

Very good questions which honestly (and this is not a copout) would take hours of discussion. If someone was truly interested then there are many good books and websites that discuss this.

 

God did not set up man to fail. Man did that on his own. He had a choice and chose wrong.

 

Deeds have consequences.

 

first off, sorry you were offended by me not capitalizing the name of Jesus, it was not intentionnal, in my language we do not capitalize names, so I am not used to doing that,

 

I apologize for taking offense. I saw that you and Malefant did it, so I responded to yours. I don't hate anyone for having a different belief than I. Anger doesn't translate into hate here.

 

For the record...and I can be quoted, if not done to offend, then feel free to not capitalize.

 

I would praise Jesus too if he would appear to me, but that is never gonna happen

I am sure many atheists would do the same if he would appear to them as he appeared to Thomas, atheists are not stupid, we do not refuse eternal life and embrace hell we just doubt their existence

 

Having asked what would it take to convince an atheist that God exists, I don't know that seeing Jesus would do it. Many think it would still be a trick.

 

As for it never happening, then if God does exist, we will all see Jesus one day.

 

it was luck, luck exists, things with rare odds of occuring occur. if there is 0.001% of someone healing from cancer, which is a rare odd, your friend's healing is justifiable because I can assure you tens of thousands died this year worldwide in his/her place of cancer

 

You call it luck. I call it a miracle.

 

I would liketo see an amputee grow a new arm o leg, that's a miracle.

 

So a miracle is defined as something that never happened before or completely defies the laws of nature?

 

about the last part, I am not blaming God for all the suffering, yes I know we must rely on ourselves, I am saying he did not help

 

And I wonder the same, too, why God does what He does. Man may cause suffering but why is it still here. Some then make the leap to mean that because there is no God because there is suffering. I cannot do that.

 

nope sorry, it was a mistake from my part. I do not like to insult feelings, I don't think your adversary will listen to your arguments if he is too busy hating you

 

No hate coming from her by any means. I enjoy a good discussion. And I apologize for taking offense. Your intentions were not what I had assumed, and I think it was wrong of me to assume.

 

TBH i've been on enough of these type of threads to know that these arguments dont lead anywhere, i just wanted to state my opinion.

 

And that is my view as well. My intentions are NOT to be condescending or vicious or hateful. I truly do enjoy a good debate on many topics, and this is one of them. Among my many posts here are responses to some very good debates. I learn by hearing opposing viewpoints.

 

I totally respect your wish to not offend anyone, and I dont say what i say in order to offend, i say it because it is how I feel. if people have any problems with that, thats fine, i wont apologise for having my own opinions.

 

Opinions are great, but grammatical rules are intended to make reading easier and more uniform.

 

about that last part, I am studying pharmacy, and you cannot imagine how difficult and hard and risky it is

 

point is, hopefuly I will graduate, and if I were to invent a cure for something, and in the end someone says it was God's miracle done by the hands of a man, I will choke that person

there is nothing miraculous about discovering a cure

 

I can imagine, because when I majored in chemistry and biology, I studied alongside of many pharmaceutical students. My father was a pharmaceutical research scientist. Without disclosing too much, I can say that he was on a team that discovered a major drug used round the world. And I could go on. In no way do I think calling a discovery means that the person's intelligence is not necessary, or that anyone could have discovered that cure. I do say that you even gave yourself a rebuttal below.

 

one person is lucky enough in his life to discover a cure and he is praised, many people spend 40 and 50 years researching and do not discover anything, and they die and no one hears about them. there is nothign miraculous about discoveries, people sacrificed their lives for it

 

And that is the point. Does it mean that the ones who never discovered a miracle cure were less intelligent? Or perhaps are you calling God's miracle and direction..."lucky?"

[JamesM]

i just wrote out a post in reply to JamesM, which was a nice one and not being nasty or anything, and when i clicked 'submit' it asked me to log in although i was already logged in!

then it lost my whole post!

grrr... it will have to wait now.

How annoying

 

Let me help you out on that one. I have done it more than once before I figured out what I was doing wrong. It is incredibly frustrating to spend so much time on a post and lose it all.

 

When you get the screen to log in, log in again using the big pink area in the middle of the screen. (Do not use the one in the right corner.) If you use the one in the middle of the screen, then you will see your post get submitted as usual.

 

You could have also used the back arrow on you browser, and my guess is that your brilliant post was still there.

 

I appreciate that you take the time to respond. But sadly, I am heading to lunch.

[627]

So a miracle is defined as something that never happened before or completely defies the laws of nature?

yes, otherwise wining the lottery is a miracle

in my country we have 4 million people and the odds of winning the lottery is one over 5 million, it is won once every 2 weeks on average

if I were a christian and I won the lottery I'd say it is God smiling down on me, however the truth is that the odds of wining are one over 5 million and given that an average of 3 to 4 million tickets are sold per week, someone is inevitably going to win it

 

And that is the point. Does it mean that the ones who never discovered a miracle cure were less intelligent? Or perhaps are you calling God's miracle and direction..."lucky?"

they were not less intelligent, they just did not look in the right place

and again what I call luck and small odds you call God

probability exists, if there is a 5% odd of findign a cure for aids by examining it, and 20 scientists were studyign aids, 1 of them will discover the cure, it is inevitable, while the other 19 will die and not be famous and not discover anything

 

odds, statistics

 

1 out of 5 million people wil lthe lottery, if 5 or 6 million tickets were sold overall, someone has to win it, and it could be anyone of us, that does not mean God prefered me over someone else who was poorer and much more believing than me

and yes sometimes rich people win the lottery while poor people who needed the money because their father needed a surjery or because they were taking the house do not

[Tony T]

I truly believe prayer is answered always...except when one asks that a thread on LoveShack remain on topic.

[TheLoneSock]

Lol look at all the flaming going on. The first 3-4 responses were all attack, attack, attack. Some people are religious, get over it.

 

Any time someone mentions their religion or faith, there are 2-3 other people demanding proof and questioning the sanity of said person. Critics and cynics is what you are, not realists or free-thinkers.

Edited November 20, 2009 by TheLoneSock
typo

[RA1]

You say prayers are always answered? Let's make that the assumption that there is a god and he answers prayers. What does he do when different people pray for contradictory things? He can't grant all their prayers, he would have to grant some and deny others, yes?

[Midnight Rider]

for thousands of years africans have been praying for food and to be rid of disease. has one loaf of bread fall from the sky? ever? for 2000 years not a cookie fell from the sky to feed anyone

 

Why don't you fly over there and help feed them. Donate some money. Is God supposed to do everything? God sometimes works miracles and acts through people. Stop being so cynical and critical of Jesus, and try not to assume you know how God thinks and should act.

[quankanne]

and what are you saying? that miracles occur only in absolute necessity?

jesus' first miracle was turning water into wine so that some dumb guests can continue getting drunk at some wedding, is that more important that curing cancer?

 

jesus raised someone from the dead(according to the bible) when his followers were hungry he made fish and bread to feed them... he could have told them to just go home and eat, no one was gonna starve

 

Thomas, who had witnessed many of jesus's miracles still doubted his resurection and he still got the luxury of jesus appearing before him to see and believe

and it is written

 

Quote:

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

how come we never get to see a real miracle?

how come when we pray for real things like food, safety, peace we never get it?

for thousands of years africans have been praying for food and to be rid of disease. has one loaf of bread fall from the sky? ever? for 2000 years not a cookie fell from the sky to feed anyone

 

WE have the power to effect that change which we seek. Or, rather, if you're looking for a miracle, we cooperate with God in making said miracle come true. Those folks praying for "very real things like food, safety, peace" realize that it's not God's heart we have to move in order for said miracles to happen, it's man's. Thus the organizations that fight for justice, that collect and distribute food and clothing to those in need, who travel across the globe building shelter and digging wells or providing livestock to feed/support people.

 

the parable of the fishes and the loaves: Interesting that you bring this up. For years I've heard this homily preached at Mass, but the best suggestion yet came from the priest who pointed out that the miracle wasn't that Jesus "created" all that food – because he could have, lickety-split – but that the people opened up their hearts to share with strangers. *This* is the true miracle, of any situation, that people start thinking about others rather than just focus on self.

[quankanne]

God shall feed the hungry

 

and he does ... when man helps others, he's using his hands to do the work of God. BTW, good luck with the pharm. studies!

[Ross PK]

Why don't you fly over there and help feed them. Donate some money. Is God supposed to do everything? God sometimes works miracles and acts through people. Stop being so cynical and critical of Jesus, and try not to assume you know how God thinks and should act.

 

Lol, the point is he/she shouldn't have to fly over there and help feed them. If God is real and is supposed to be so powerful that he created people out of thin air, he should have helped them already by waving his magic wand or however the **** he does it.

[Ross PK]

God shall feed the hungry

 

and he does ... when man helps others, he's using his hands to do the work of God. BTW, good luck with the pharm. studies!

 

Why does God need men to help him feed some peeps? He supposedly created the friggin universe on his own didn't he?

[627]

Why don't you fly over there and help feed them. Donate some money. Is God supposed to do everything? God sometimes works miracles and acts through people. Stop being so cynical and critical of Jesus, and try not to assume you know how God thinks and should act.

well because jesus told us how he was going to work according to the bible

and according to the bible jesus has no problem performing miracles when asked, not once did jesus deny performing a miracle to someone who asked according to the bible

why is it not so in real life? that's all I am saying

 

and I am doing my part in helping to improve the world, God is not asked to do everything, God is asked to do something, and clearly. how about... I don't know, how about God feeds 1/3 of the african countries and leaves 2/3 to us?

 

WE have the power to effect that change which we seek. Or, rather, if you're looking for a miracle, we cooperate with God in making said miracle come true. Those folks praying for "very real things like food, safety, peace" realize that it's not God's heart we have to move in order for said miracles to happen, it's man's. Thus the organizations that fight for justice, that collect and distribute food and clothing to those in need, who travel across the globe building shelter and digging wells or providing livestock to feed/support people.

if you give every human enough food to survive the next day everyday, the world's production would not be enough

we need God

do you realise that about a billion people are starving? do you realise what 1 billion loaf of bread more in consumption would do the the market? it's humanly impossible to feed the hungry

we did not even say we want to give shelter and heating and electricity for everyone

Edited November 20, 2009 by 627

[RA1]

 

...if you're looking for a miracle, we cooperate with God in making said miracle come true.

Quankanne, the OP said god always answers prayers. I think you are saying that is a false proposition as it stands in that simple form?

[Tony T]

Somebody early on obviously prayed for free speech...and IT WAS GRANTED!!!

[RA1]

Somebody early on obviously prayed for free speech...and IT WAS GRANTED!!!

Since you said "everything is possible" and "prayers are ALWAYS answered", why don't you pray for us all to agree with your original post? Then the next messages after mine will all agree with your first post and provide evidence for your propositions!

[Tony T]

Since you said "everything is possible" and "prayers are ALWAYS answered", why don't you pray for us all to agree with your original post? Then the next messages after mine will all agree with your first post and provide evidence for your propositions!

 

My original post is nothing to agree or disagree with. I did not put forth a question. It was actually meant to say that MY prayers are answered. Since all of my prayers are answered and many of others here are not, I am one lucky guy. Most likely I worded it incorrectly. It should have said that God answers MY prayers ALWAYS!

 

I also think that whether or not desires are granted by prayer depends largely on the belief that it will happen. It's a metaphysical thing as much as a religious thing. I don't know.

 

If prayer doesn't work for others, I am very sorry and I suggest that they either do nothing at all or look for other ways to find their seemingly impossible requests be granted by the universe.

 

I did not mean for this to get into a controversial religious thread. I meant to simply state what is true for me. That is all. Over and out.

[TheLoneSock]

That was exactly my point. Any mention of the word religion sends all the athiests into a flurry of "OMG, prove to me there's a God! Prove it!".

 

This topic started degenerating the instant any of the first 4 posters opened their mouths.

[disgracian]

Lol look at all the flaming going on. The first 3-4 responses were all attack, attack, attack. Some people are religious, get over it.

Being religious is fine; spouting absolute rubbish is not. Others will "attack" you for it because that's how the meritocracy of ideas works. When people say blatantly untrue and disgustingly self-absorbed things like "Prayers are ALWAYS answered!" they're going to cop flak for it, and deservedly so.

 

It shows a massive and wilful ignorance of the world and the injustice in it.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

I did not mean for this to get into a controversial religious thread.

You have got to be joking.

 

Cheers,

D.

[627]

That was exactly my point. Any mention of the word religion sends all the athiests into a flurry of "OMG, prove to me there's a God! Prove it!".

 

This topic started degenerating the instant any of the first 4 posters opened their mouths.

what is wrong with debates? no one got hurt, we traded opinions, we kept it clean...

to me, every debate opportunity is like a test of my belief, every time I debate, it is meant for me to see if my arguments make sense, and if it is really what I am convinced off. I'm not obsessed with turning people, there is nothing in it for me.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I dunno, I'm a little burned on the praying thing. I prayed every day for my baby, and he died inside me anyway. A part of me died that night in the ER as well.

[Tayla]

I dunno, I'm a little burned on the praying thing. I prayed every day for my baby, and he died inside me anyway. A part of me died that night in the ER as well.

 

No words can express what you endured...So sorry.

[Tayla]

on the manner of prayer, so often its mis-used for self reasoning. Praying for health and it doesnt come, Praying for loved ones, war victims, those Less fortunate.

 

Prayers are answered. Just some folks dont like the answers given, which is NO. Prayer is not a bargaining tool if you have a true faith. "Dear Lord if you just make my ill friend well I will go to church more"- His response, Go to church or not, your friend is ill, deal with it with my support.

 

I damned the creator many times for NOT listening to me and my wishes, then one day it dawned on me, When did I listen to the wishes of others and the way the world really is. It stopped being about My *needs* or how I wanted the world to be. Prayer is not a personal plea...if so then yeah, stop praying in that way....

[627]

on the manner of prayer, so often its mis-used for self reasoning. Praying for health and it doesnt come, Praying for loved ones, war victims, those Less fortunate.

 

Prayers are answered. Just some folks dont like the answers given, which is NO. Prayer is not a bargaining tool if you have a true faith. "Dear Lord if you just make my ill friend well I will go to church more"- His response, Go to church or not, your friend is ill, deal with it with my support.

 

I damned the creator many times for NOT listening to me and my wishes, then one day it dawned on me, When did I listen to the wishes of others and the way the world really is. It stopped being about My *needs* or how I wanted the world to be. Prayer is not a personal plea...if so then yeah, stop praying in that way....

but this reasoning contradicts what jesus says, which is ask and you shall be given

[Tony T]

but this reasoning contradicts what jesus says, which is ask and you shall be given

 

Ask and you will be given and the answer, at the moment, may be NO. The universe is not interested in time. Prayers sometimes take time. African Americans prayed for a black president for several centuries before they got one. Prayer requires patience. If you are a happy person, waiting is no big deal. I agree that if you are hungry, waiting IS a big deal but organizations around the world are working day and night on this and other similar problems.