Malenfant Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 That was exactly my point. Any mention of the word religion sends all the athiests into a flurry of "OMG, prove to me there's a God! Prove it!". This topic started degenerating the instant any of the first 4 posters opened their mouths. Just because we disagreed with Tony doesnt mean our points are invalid. i personally find it quite laughable that someone can state in no uncertain terms that prayers are always answered. I simply brought up an example of people who's prayers have not been answered. obviously as we are talking about praying to god, the thread is about religion and therefore more than likely to attract comments from people who have strong opinions on the subject. If prayers were in fact always answered, that would be a valid reason for me to re-consider my atheist convictions, and therefore it does become an argument about whether god exists. I was merely asking for validation of the opening statement. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Tony T Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Just because we disagreed with Tony doesnt mean our points are invalid. i personally find it quite laughable that someone can state in no uncertain terms that prayers are always answered. Prayers are ALWAYS answered for me. Maybe it's because I have some sort of inside track. Maybe it's because I don't come to the trough very often. Maybe it's just a coincidence. Laughable or not, it happens...always has. I'm sorry it doesn't work for others. I'll have to examine exactly what it is that I'm doing right and pass it along. Meantime, I find all responses in this thread stimulating and I am heartbroken that others don't get the same results I do. I think Atheists are welcome to pray too. I don't know who they would direct their prayers toward...maybe the nearest traffic signal. But it's certainly worth a try. Link to post Share on other sites
TheLoneSock Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Maybe it's because I don't come to the trough very often. This is a unique and interesting statement. To any that might not understand, he means that he doesn't pray to God for every little thing he may want or need in life. In short, he doesn't ask for help unless he really needs it. That's important. That's how I interpreted it anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
TheLoneSock Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I don't know who they would direct their prayers toward...maybe the nearest traffic signal. Lol, maybe Darwin, Dawkins, Freud... Bill Nye the science guy. Link to post Share on other sites
Malenfant Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Reread the thread. I was not the first to "spout" the Bible. Besides, the life of Jesus is in the Bible and the miracle of wine is in the Bible. How best to explain or respond than by using the Bible? using the bible is not valid because its not an accurate method of determining what happened over 2000 years ago. there isnt anyway of knowing whether any of the things in the bible were true. just because someone wrote that jesus turned water into wine doesnt mean it actually happened. Not true. As I stated, it would take more than a few sentences to adequately answer the question. But yes, I have to agree...critics have not always found the answers sufficient. BTW, first you accuse me of spouting from the Bible, and then you accuse me of not spouting from the Bible? If I used the Bible to explain suffering (which I kinda did if you reread), then it would not be sufficient, I am sure. However, by man came sin into the world. And because of sin there is suffering. why on earth would god bother to create a race who is capable of sin? to test them? why bother? it makes no sense at all, blaming sin on man just acts as a control mechanism to force people to be nice to each other. so where does the 'free mind' aspect come into it then? if we're given our own minds, why then be punished for using them any way we see fit? Questioning WHY God does what He does is different than saying He doesn't exist because of what man caused. Watch some clips by Ravi Zacharias on youtube. He gives some answers to this question. As for questioning God, many do feel that if God exists and being defined as much greater than man, then yes, our place would not be to question as one day all will be answered...whether we like it or not. And just because we understand them does not make them miracles. i'm not saying man's actions disproves god's existance. i'm asking why god would allow innocent people to suffer at the hands of a man that he created? in that case, he made man to be cruel to each other, and more importantly, cruel to people who dont deserve it. why on earth would he do that? With all due respect...based on the sentence above, I can only wonder if you truly know the rules. As a way to help you, I provided a link (which is not Christian oriented BTW ) to clear this up.... http://www.libraryonline.com/default.asp?pID=48 Note: Names for the Bible – Capitalize all names for the Bible, for parts and versions of the Bible and all names of other sacred books. Creeds and Confessions – Capitalize all names of creeds and confessions of faith and general Biblical terms. Deity - Capitalize all names for Deity Examples: · Father · Almighty · God · Lord · Holy Spirit · Son of Man · Messiah · Lord of Hosts · Redeemer · Savior · Holy Trinity Devil - Capitalize all names for the Devil I guess that about covers it. It is not meant as condescension but if anything, as anger. It just befuddles me that anyone would think not using proper grammar somehow makes God or Jesus disappear. If anything, then I would call the deliberate act of not capitalizing that which should be capitalized because one wants to degrade God or Jesus....condescending. I mean this only as an opinion and not as the "gospel truth." Surely you cant honestly believe that i use lower case so i can 'make god and jesus disappear'? i dont believe anyway, so why would i need them to? I dont care much for rules, especially ones that dont allow for self-expression, which is what i was using lower case for. If it makes you angry, then i'm sorry that it does, it was not my intention to offend. i'm not degrading anyone, after all, i dont care if you spell my name all in lower case. Link to post Share on other sites
TheLoneSock Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'm not a religious nut by any stretch but I can tell you with absolute certainty that my prayers have ALWAYS been answered, in one way or another. Being religious is fine; spouting absolute rubbish is not. Actually, his exact statement was that his prayers are always answered, in one way or another. Who are you to tell him he's wrong? Link to post Share on other sites
Malenfant Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Actually, his exact statement was that his prayers are always answered, in one way or another. Who are you to tell him he's wrong? I'm not a religious nut by any stretch but I can tell you with absolute certainty that my prayers have ALWAYS been answered, in one way or another. No matter what your beliefs, if you close your eyes and talk to your God in silence and ask for what you need, you will see miracles...ABSOLUTE MIRACLES!!! The ONLY thing that is required is FAITH...the faith that your requests will be fulfilled. I must caution. It's extremely important that you are asking for what you need, not necessarily what you want. If you pray for a certain person and that person is wrong for you, you may very well get that person in your life...and the hell with it. Be careful that way! Pray for the solution that will be right for your life. Another thing to remember. NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE!!! i've highlighted the bit where he tells us that all of our prayers will also be answered. bit of a big thing to make assurances about, that is, if he's only speaking for himself? Link to post Share on other sites
Midnight Rider Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Lol, the point is he/she shouldn't have to fly over there and help feed them. If God is real and is supposed to be so powerful that he created people out of thin air, he should have helped them already by waving his magic wand or however the **** he does it. I was reading you other thread about how you claim everything in your life goes wrong and that nothing good happens to you... so, it is no surprise to hear you make the above statement. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Actually, his exact statement was that his prayers are always answered, in one way or another. Who are you to tell him he's wrong? Check the Subject line of the thread (on the assumption that is hasn't been edited by a mod since its original posting... ) Ask and you will be given and the answer, at the moment, may be NO. The universe is not interested in time. Prayers sometimes take time. African Americans prayed for a black president for several centuries before they got one. Prayer requires patience. If you are a happy person, waiting is no big deal. I agree that if you are hungry, waiting IS a big deal but organizations around the world are working day and night on this and other similar problems. Well, if you take as a given that the definition of "always be answered" is "anything that results from a prayer, including nothing for an indefinite time, represents God's will, wisdom, and judgement" then I have no problem accepting the original premise that all prayers are answered. But isn't that kind of like my amazing ability to predict the outcome of a dice roll? (It's going to be between 1 and 6 this time, I just know it...) Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Actually, his exact statement was that his prayers are always answered He "clarified" that after I started my response to his OP. Who are you to tell him he's wrong? Err, who exactly do I have to be? Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Toki Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I have never made but one prayer to God, a very short one: 'O Lord, make my enemies ridiculous.' And God granted it. Link to post Share on other sites
RA1 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Well, if you take as a given that the definition of "always be answered" is "anything that results from a prayer, including nothing for an indefinite time, represents God's will, wisdom, and judgement" then I have no problem accepting the original premise that all prayers are answered. Very well said! If that was the OP's meaning, then it was a trivial observation. If he meant what he said in a no-trivial way, then he's patently wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross PK Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 I'm going to pray for an ice cream sudae to magically appear in front of me, if it doesn't happen, this will prove that the OP is wrong. *Prays for ice cream sundae* Link to post Share on other sites
Ross PK Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Nope, it didn't happen. Oh well, looks like I'll have to go out and buy one. Link to post Share on other sites
Trimmer Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 It may sound disingenuous of me to claim it at this point, but my intent was not to ridicule. Even as a staunch non-believer, I still understand that prayer is a matter of faith. One who is truly faithful will entrust his or her prayer with God to do with as He will, and entrust that it will be answered in God's way and in God's time. Such a believer won't be praying for ice-cream. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Why does God need men to help him feed some peeps? He supposedly created the friggin universe on his own didn't he? honey, he doesn't *need* for us to do anything, he's merely presenting opportunities for us to respond to that divine impulse we've got inside to help others. I wish I had my copy of the article a friend ran in his diocesan paper a couple of months back, on giving ... the author described the three different types of giving a person practices. The first two are based on selfish motives, i.e., that in doing A, then we benefit by receiving B. The third, giving selflessly from the heart without expecting anything in return, is true giving, because we are responding the way He hopes we will respond: Openly and without a thought of self. So, again, God doesn't *need* for us to help him feed people, he's giving us the opportunity to respond from the heart to benefit others without benefitting ourselves. Which, in turn, makes our hearts "grow two sizes bigger," the way the Grinch's did in the Dr. Seuss book ... Quankanne, the OP said god always answers prayers. I think you are saying that is a false proposition as it stands in that simple form? nope, didn't say that or imply it: God answers prayers, plain and simple. Often in ways we don't expect or want, but when all's said and done, in ways that make us grow spiritually. Somebody early on obviously prayed for free speech...and IT WAS GRANTED!!! :laugh: nice! Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 This is a unique and interesting statement. To any that might not understand, he means that he doesn't pray to God for every little thing he may want or need in life. In short, he doesn't ask for help unless he really needs it. That's important. Tell LB she wasn't praying for something she REALLY needed. I'm betting she will disagree with you. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Tell LB she wasn't praying for something she REALLY needed. I'm betting she will disagree with you. With all sympathy to LB, and I think she knows I care enough not to say anything that is hurtful...and I certainly am not trying now.... An answer can be a yes or a no. And at the time, the answer received may not be the answer we want. However, many can say from experience that later the answer was the best for them...even when they first thought it was not. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 With all sympathy to LB, and I think she knows I care enough not to say anything that is hurtful...and I certainly am not trying now.... An answer can be a yes or a no. And at the time, the answer received may not be the answer we want. However, many can say from experience that later the answer was the best for them...even when they first thought it was not. My answer was responding to the assumption that people whose prayers are NOT answered are asking for frivelous things. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 My answer was responding to the assumption that people whose prayers are NOT answered are asking for frivolous things. Sorry...my mistake. We may agree on this one, because I think many will tell you that prayer should be for even the littlest things in life. Link to post Share on other sites
donnamaybe Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Sorry...my mistake. We may agree on this one, because I think many will tell you that prayer should be for even the littlest things in life. Well, that may be true of some people, but I personally feel prayer should be reserved for the important stuff. I just felt that asking that your baby's life be spared was rather important. Link to post Share on other sites
northstar1 Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Ask and you will be given and the answer, at the moment, may be NO. The universe is not interested in time. Prayers sometimes take time. African Americans prayed for a black president for several centuries before they got one. Prayer requires patience. If you are a happy person, waiting is no big deal. I agree that if you are hungry, waiting IS a big deal but organizations around the world are working day and night on this and other similar problems. So if someone waits long enough, that prayer may be answered at some point? It might not happen in the lifetime of the people who prayed, but someone will benefit someone someday, is that what your basic assumption is? It would seem if that is the case, the law of averages would be more at play than the result of prayer. Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster_DAR Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 So if someone waits long enough, that prayer may be answered at some point? It might not happen in the lifetime of the people who prayed, but someone will benefit someone someday, is that what your basic assumption is? It would seem if that is the case, the law of averages would be more at play than the result of prayer. Took the words outta my mouth. Prayers are always answered by the person reasoning an intuitive event that has to be at the hands of God. The law of averages is almost always missing when seeking answers to prayer. Cheers! Link to post Share on other sites
Ross PK Posted November 23, 2009 Share Posted November 23, 2009 Love the avatar, northstar. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted November 24, 2009 Share Posted November 24, 2009 Usually there are three outcomes: 1. Yes 2. No 3. Not yet In His Infinite wisdom, and our finite minds can not comprehend His logic. Only one thing is certain....all things happen according to His will. Link to post Share on other sites
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