Prayers are ALWAYS answered!

[ToBeFair]

You can confirm that God exists, you can deny that God exists. One thing you can not do is IGNORE Him

 

When someone challenges you to provide prove that god exists, that is the best you can come up with ????, it doesn't even make any sense (obviously you can ignore god if you don't beleive he exists, I ignore god all the time just as I ignore Sauron, destroyer of worlds)

 

Please, if you can't provide any proof that A even exists , you really should not state that A causes B to happen. Until someone can provide some PROOF that A (in this case God) exists, it cannot be said to be the cause of B (in this case the answering of Tony T's prayers).

 

If I was to state to you that the only reason you exist is because the small fribbits that live in the 4th dimension of nardol had a bet one day, the first question from you should be 'who are the fribbits and can you please demonstrate or explain their existence' so that I can look at this claim in more detail.

 

Or are we back in the dark ages ?

[Rooster_DAR]

Same with the constitution, or maps, or history books? How about archeology?

 

No comparison here. These are based on provable observations.

 

How about the inherit fact that if you put your hand on a hot stove it'll get burned?

 

Plain ridiculous to even use this as a comparison.

 

You can confirm that God exists, you can deny that God exists. One thing you can not do is IGNORE Him

 

Completely untrue. You cannot confirm that god exists, however you can believe that god exists. The latter statement is true, however if I were to say that god did not exist, then it would just be an opinion as nobody at this time can prove otherwise.

 

Cheers!

[Moose]

When someone challenges you to provide prove that god exists, that is the best you can come up with ????

Of course. You have a will of your own. Just because I know that God does indeed exist doesn't mean I have to prove it to someone who doesn't know God themselves. You've chosen by your free will to deny Him. We can disagree, we don't have to divide...

 

I also know a man that goes by, "Eb". He's an older gentleman that I work with. Can I prove to you that he exists? If I sent you picture? How about a copy of his Driver's License? How about his social security number? All of these could be easily de-bunked with your way of thinking....you'd call everything fake unless you actually met him. Well, I've met God. No, I don't have a picture, he doesn't drive and He owns everything so He doesn't need a SSN.

 

Just because I know for a fact that God exists doesn't mean you have to agree with me, proof or no.

You cannot confirm that god exists

To another person whom doesn't believe in Him, you're absolutely right.

however you can believe that god exists

When I've witnessed with these two eyes of mine, the anserwed prayers I've received, and what I've witnessed in other lives, you're absolutely wrong.

[ToBeFair]

Well, I've met God

 

Wow, I'm intrigued. I've never discoursed with someone who has actually MET God. I'm SOOO full of questions.

 

What did he look like ?

Who was his father ?

What's this stuff about him being his father but also a ghost ?

Why the illusion of free will, doesn't his omnipotence exclude this possibility ?

Why the platypus ?

Why make dinosaurs only to wipe them from the face of the earth ?

Why starve poor inocent children to death ?

Why are good people puncished for no reason ?

Why ...

 

Please , tell me, when you met him, what questions did you ask ?, what were the answers ? Where did you meet him ? , is it possible I could meet him ? I would love to meet him, if I did meet an omnipotent being then I could happily live the rest of my life conscience free, knowing that I could do anything I wanted and it would make no difference, I could murder, steal, lie, screw whoever I wanted, it would make no difference as the mere existence of an omnipotent being totally excludes all free will and consequence. If he was omnipotent then he knows everything, which means all things must already be decided.

 

Ah what a life that would be.

 

 

I also know a man that goes by, "Eb". He's an older gentleman that I work with. Can I prove to you that he exists? If I sent you picture? How about a copy of his Driver's License? How about his social security number?

 

I trust you on the Eb issue, why would you make that up ? Why would I make up the 'fribbits' ? you believe in them don't you ? why would I lie ?

 

you're absolutely wrong.

 

Hmmm, think not !

[Tony T]

I would like to, once again, clearly state: It has been MY experience that EVERYTIME I address a prayer to God, it is absolutely...in no uncertain terms...answered in some way. I may not like the answer at the time but later on I understand completely why it was answered as it was.

 

I appreciate everyone's input and I am extremely sorry for others' experiences. Prayers are answered according to the level of faith you have that God will answer them. It necessarily follows that if you are a nonbeliever, and I completely respect that, your prayers may not be answered. Anytime you expect something to happen but have a strong belief it won't, whether or not you have prayed for it, it's probably not going to happen.

 

As for praying for the direction of other people and events, these are intercessory prayers and sometimes they are effective. I personally believe that whether or not they are answered in the affirmative has a lot to do with the other person, persons or events and little to do with the person who is praying. This kind of prayer certainly shows our level of compassion for others.

 

Again, I am sorry for those whose prayers are not answered in some way. I consider myself very lucky. To be honest, I have no idea why this happens except for the fact that I have absolute, total faith they will be answered based on a lifetime of my prayers being answered. As a postscript, I do not pray selfishly for lottery numbers or things of that sort.

[ToBeFair]

I would like to, once again, clearly state: It has been MY experience that EVERYTIME I address a prayer to God, it is absolutely...in no uncertain terms...answered in some way. [/Quote]

 

As you state that your prayers are always answered could I ask you, as one human being to another, to make the following prayers to your god and let me know when you understand the answers you receive:-

 

1. Please stop killing small children for no good reason.

2. Please stop all rape, murder, pilage etc that you currently allow to happen.

3. Please make your presence known irrefutably to all people of the world , and stop the debate over wether there is a god or not (this should stop a lot of the killing in the name of God\Allah\Ghandi etc)

4. Please stop all unfairness, poverty, etc

 

I'm not greedy , that will do for starters.

 

thanks

 

ps, just post the answers you receive on this post and I will keep my eye on it.

[Crusoe]

God shall feed the hungry

 

and he does ... when man helps others

 

I am not religious but I will say an Amen to that. When man helps others, truly be that man and you will answer your own prayers.

[Moose]

What did he look like ?

Who was his father ?

What's this stuff about him being his father but also a ghost ?

Why the illusion of free will, doesn't his omnipotence exclude this possibility ?

Why the platypus ?

Why make dinosaurs only to wipe them from the face of the earth ?

Why starve poor inocent children to death ?

Why are good people puncished for no reason ?

Why ...

I have a better question....why do those who consider themselves "intellectuals" disregard the obvious?

 

It always reminds me of Billy Bob Thorton in Slingblade..."Reckon we oughter put gas in it, emm hem..."

 

This is not in the spirit of the original thread. Perhaps you need to create a new one?

[ToBeFair]

This is not in the spirit of the original thread. Perhaps you need to create a new one?

 

I disagree entirely.

 

IMO all my comments have been in the spirit of the OP. The OP states that 'God answers ALL my prayers', a point the OP has repeatedley backed up. You have backed this up as well.

 

In the spirit of rational, logical analysis, of the sort that has led humanity to the point on which we now stand, I asked for either the OP or yourself to substantiate this statement by starting at the beginning, ie by providing some proof that God exists in the first place. As neither of you have seen fit to do this (and to be fair it would be a bit tough) I have asked that the OP pray to his God and request a number of quite reasonable things, the sort of things that most reasonable humans would wish for.

 

When the OP gets his answers from his god regarding these issues , I trust he will post the answers of this thread for us all to see. In the meantime, the weak and innocent will continue to suffer and die, injustice will be rife, and uncertainty will reign supreme. But I am glad the the OP has his individual prayers always answered. It heartens me to know that Tony's prayers are answered and his life enriched, but maybe if god wasn't so busy responding to the prayers of one individual , he (or she) might have more time to sort the other bad stuff out.

 

Until you can provide me with proof of the existence of God, or answer any of the questions that I have asked the OP to ask his God, what more can you say that is of any use to this thread. It appears that all you can do is sprout (sic - xmas reference) rhetoric and quote bits from an old work of fiction.

Edited December 31, 2009 by ToBeFair

[Moose]

What did he look like ?

 

I haven't seen Him Face to face. I won't know what He looks like until I'm completely sinless and in His presence. Scripture does say that we are made in His likeness however, this does not mean physically in my opinion.

 

Who was his father ?

 

He is the "Alpha and Omega". He has always been, and always WILL be. He is THE Father of all.

 

What's this stuff about him being his father but also a ghost ?

 

If you are referring to the Holy Trinity, that would take pages and lots of server space. In short however, God is not a physical being, so through his Spirit He sent His only Son born of a virgin, being fully man, and also fully divine in order to pay our sin debt sin the fall of man in the garden of eded, then left us His Holy Spirit since one man, (being Christ) can not be everywhere, everytime, all of the time.

 

Why the illusion of free will, doesn't his omnipotence exclude this possibility ?

 

Nope. All things....including our decisions are according to His perfect Will. Free will is only an illusion when YOU, (as a finite being) can not see the consequences whether good or bad.

 

Why the platypus ?

 

Good question. Personally, I like to think God has a sense of humor. To be honest, I've never asked Him...

 

Why make dinosaurs only to wipe them from the face of the earth ?

 

Interesting that you think dinosaurs no longer exist. How did you come to that conclusion?

 

Why starve poor inocent children to death ?

 

Back to free will.

 

1. Who's to judge these children are innocent?

2. Who's responsible, and why haven't you worked on resolving this dilema?

 

Why are good people puncished for no reason ?

 

How do you know these are, "good" people? Even so, I believe people who are in God's will and are punished anyway is so they may edify fellow followers through the same trials.

 

Why ...

 

Ask Him yourself. Scripture wasn't written for us. Scripture was written TO us.

As far as your post to Tony....what you ask is illogical. It's as if you want God to make a perfect world. Without evil, there would be no good. Without sadness, there would be no happiness. Without darkness there would be no light....and so on....

[Tony T]

As you state that your prayers are always answered could I ask you, as one human being to another, to make the following prayers to your god and let me know when you understand the answers you receive:-

 

1. Please stop killing small children for no good reason.

2. Please stop all rape, murder, pilage etc that you currently allow to happen.

3. Please make your presence known irrefutably to all people of the world , and stop the debate over wether there is a god or not (this should stop a lot of the killing in the name of God\Allah\Ghandi etc)

4. Please stop all unfairness, poverty, etc

 

I'm not greedy , that will do for starters.

 

thanks

 

ps, just post the answers you receive on this post and I will keep my eye on it.

 

I would not do this for you because the spirit under which you have asked these things is not pure and you are a cynic. In time, something will happen in your life and you will change directions. Meanwhile, I do wish the very best for you.

[Love Hurts]

I agree unless you ask amiss, and ummm whats that? Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. [James 4:3] A good example is; asking for a few mill dollars to impress your friends and family with......That is so not going to happen. Its a total ask amiss.

[disgracian]

First, it is your responsibilty to provide there is no, "god" since this is your claim.

How many times do people have to explain to you the burden of proof before you learn? It is not possible to prove something does not exist. If you want to argue, prove to me that Thor does not exist somewhere.

 

Cheers,

D.

Edited December 31, 2009 by disgracian

[OpenBook]

My original post is nothing to agree or disagree with. I did not put forth a question. It was actually meant to say that MY prayers are answered...

 

I did not mean for this to get into a controversial religious thread. I meant to simply state what is true for me. That is all. Over and out.

 

So... in the spirit of staying on-topic, I'll go out on a limb and try to guess what kind of responses you ARE looking for. I'll assume that the very act of your initiating this thread was to elicit responses to your beliefs that you have "put forth" here - even though you claim you were simply describing your experience. So I'll throw my 2 cents into the ring based on that assumption. You've stated your beliefs, so now I'll state mine. I hope this meets with your approval.

 

I believe that prayer - on top of my own hard work, and doing my part - is by far the most effective way to get things done, and live a happy life.

 

I also believe that the atheists, doubters and denyers are every bit as important in God's eyes as the believers... and their views are no less valid than any other.

[ToBeFair]

1. Who's to judge these children are innocent?

 

Wow, to me this says so much about your attitude. I have nothing more to say to you.

[ToBeFair]

I would not do this for you because the spirit under which you have asked these things is not pure and you are a cynic. In time, something will happen in your life and you will change directions. Meanwhile, I do wish the very best for you.

 

Pity, you are right, on all matters religous I am very cynical, if I have made a mistake and there is a god, I'm sure he will understand that it is ultimately his fault for endowing me with an inquiring mind, the sort of mind that after many years of logical study, of both many religous texts and many scientific ones has come to the conclusion, principally on the fact that there is not one piece of evidence to suggest otherwise, that God does not exist.

 

I have no malice towards people who still believe in god, until a few years ago so did I, in many ways I envy them the 'fall back' that they must have in difficult times. I must confess that in Really difficult times my brain still reaches out for that certainty I used to share when I was younger. But every ounce of reasoning in me fights and insists that the notion of God makes no sense.

 

I honestly would LOVE someone to prove me wrong.

 

Re your prayers, I am not being sanctimonious, but if I did believe in God and found that my prayers WERE being answered, I would find it in poor taste to firstly come onto a site like this where so many people's prayers are NOT being answered and effectivly gloat, and secondly to ask my God for any personal favours, if I found that my prayers were being listened to then I would definitely ask for an end to all the suffering, poverty etc in the rest of the world.

[disgracian]

Re your prayers, I am not being sanctimonious, but if I did believe in God and found that my prayers WERE being answered, I would find it in poor taste to firstly come onto a site like this where so many people's prayers are NOT being answered and effectivly gloat, and secondly to ask my God for any personal favours, if I found that my prayers were being listened to then I would definitely ask for an end to all the suffering, poverty etc in the rest of the world.

Quoted for truth.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Moose]

How many times do people have to explain to you the burden of proof before you learn? It is not possible to prove something does not exist. If you want to argue, prove to me that Thor does not exist somewhere.

 

Cheers,

D.

Prove to me Thor does exist.

 

You have a tendency to turn tables. Once again, I don't have the capabilty to make you....me.

 

If I could, you'd have no doubt that God does INDEED exist.

 

Please don't take offense to this, but it surprises me that your wife, (being a believer) hasn't made this perfectly clear to you.?

[Moose]

Wow, to me this says so much about your attitude. I have nothing more to say to you.

Truth isn't pretty....and most of the time it hurts...

[disgracian]

You have a tendency to turn tables. Once again, I don't have the capabilty to make you....me.

Yes I do. It's an effective device for showing somebody how illogical they are being. Yet somehow I sense that you didn't quite grasp it in the end. I'll have another go:

 

If you won't accept the challenge to prove Thor does not exist, and indeed cannot do this, then it shows that your earlier statement ("First, it is your responsibilty to provide there is no, "god" since this is your claim.") is vacuous. No matter what you say, I can counter with "But you don't know everything, you haven't been everywhere, haven't uncovered every single pebble in the universe, so you can't say for sure that Thor doesn't exist."

 

And that's exactly what you'd say to somebody who took up your challenge. If we didn't have this burden of proof concept, there is nothing we could rule out no matter how silly it was. The Flying Spaghetti Monster is another way of expressing this point.

 

So, in future could you kindly drop this tired old canard from your repetoir? It would be most appreciated.

Please don't take offense to this, but it surprises me that your wife, (being a believer) hasn't made this perfectly clear to you.?

She has read some of our exchanges and has reached the same conclusion as I have. So, none taken.

 

Cheers,

D.

[disgracian]

Truth isn't pretty....and most of the time it hurts...

Do you think people start sinning the moment they leave the womb?

 

Cheers,

D.

[Tony T]

I'll assume that the very act of your initiating this thread was to elicit responses to your beliefs that you have "put forth" here - even though you claim you were simply describing your experience.....

 

I also believe that the atheists, doubters and denyers are every bit as important in God's eyes as the believers... and their views are no less valid than any other.

 

I did not desire to advance by beliefs as much as my experience. I am terribly sorry that many of the prayers of others here are not answered or that they misinterpreted what I wrote. I am beginning to think that in some way I have gotten the prayer thing right.

 

I also believe that all persons, athiests, doubters, etc., are important to the universe. However, I don't think that prayers can be manifest if a person does not believe. What would be the point? The core issue of prayer is the BELIEF that it will be answered. This is as much metaphysical as it is religious. If we don't believe a prayer will be answered, it most likely won't. That principal is advanced in the bible as well as many modern books including, most recently, The Secret.

 

Bottom Line: My prayers are always answered. Perhaps it's because I am able to recognize the answers...or because I expect answers. I am sorry for those who do not receive answers.

[Moose]

Yes I do. It's an effective device for showing somebody how illogical they are being. Yet somehow I sense that you didn't quite grasp it in the end.

 

Nor would I, you aren't me, and I am not you. Knowing God is a personal relationship. Somehow I sense that you're incapable of grasping this.

 

So, in future could you kindly drop this tired old canard from your repetoir? It would be most appreciated.

 

As much as I enjoy our discussions, I cannot.

 

She has read some of our exchanges and has reached the same conclusion as I have. So, none taken.

 

I'm wondering then, if she's a believer or follower as I've explained earlier.

 

Cheers,

D.

I believe we are sinners at CONCEPTION. Not just "sinners" as we leave our Mother's womb.

[Star Gazer]

I would like to, once again, clearly state: It has been MY experience that EVERYTIME I address a prayer to God, it is absolutely...in no uncertain terms...answered in some way.

 

Really? Don't you pray that posters won't go off topic?

[AgentD]

Really? Don't you pray that posters won't go off topic?

You have a good point.

 

I've allowed this thread to continue, but not to spark debate, however it is coming to the point that I will be forced to close this thread if it continues.

 

Participants are invited to begin a new thread. I would, however like for those who are sparking controversy not participate, or I will be forced to close future threads as well.