ADF Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I think you''re right, herenow. I notice many people in the middle of complicated, compromised situations--e.g. having extra-martial affairs, cheating on SOs--talk as if they have no agnecy whatsoever. They don't make any choices--according to them, things "just happen." As in, "I didn't mean to cheat on my girlfriend, but it just happened," or "I got drunk and ended up fooling around with this guy." WHAT RUBBISH! Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Not always. It is a generalization and when people express their greatness through self-righteous tough love, other people tend to expect more from them. What's funny is, I've seen their behavior make people more defensive defeating the purpose of what they say they're trying to do. So, I wonder if the taunting is really for the OW/OM. Link to post Share on other sites
Heather1 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Wow, that's quite a concrete statement. I look back & wonder when my (then) best friend & I crossed the line, and it was a year after we met & we were both under extreme stress. Our first kiss was the day before my 3rd funeral in 3 months of my closest friends. 1 expected death, 2 not expected at all. For me it was never a decision like, "Hey, that guy's hot & I think I'll just have some fun and forget about consequences or his family & mine." In my case, it was the perfect storm & I'm having a hard time getting out (we both are). But yeah, I would have strolled down the street a few years back thinking that I was untouchable too. God only few of moral perfection, and I'm glad they're on here posting. Good for you. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 When I was on my 20's, I said I would NEVER cheat, I was a person with true dignity and self respect. Then never came a long and I cheated with a married guy. Of course, I had all the excuses in the world why I did it. Well that experience CEMENTED the fact that I can easily now say, I will NEVER cheat again. Why, because I've come so far spiritually since my scum bag actions and know that I'm not the type of person to ever get to that low level again. Bless all that pain because it restores my self dignity. Link to post Share on other sites
Heather1 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'll agree with you there Red Devil, after this experience I would never do this again! You just never knows what life throws your way to put you in a vulnerable spot, but after you've been in that spot, you know! The whole, "walk a mile in my shoes" or casting stones. I can say I've never cast stones.... Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I will NEVER cheat again. I would never do this again! After people have done something one time, it's even easier to do it a second time. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 After people have done something one time, it's even easier to do it a second time. You know, you go around many posts pegging people like you know them so well!!!! You know nothing! Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 It is a generalization and when people express their greatness through self-righteous tough love, other people tend to expect more from them. What's funny is, I've seen their behavior make people more defensive defeating the purpose of what they say they're trying to do. So, I wonder if the taunting is really for the OW/OM. Wow. I've never been called 'self-righteous before. Unless I'm reading your post incorrectly, I'd say its probably best that you ignore my posts if you feel that they are taunting you. Link to post Share on other sites
Virgo1982 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Wow. I've never been called 'self-righteous before. Unless I'm reading your post incorrectly, I'd say its probably best that you ignore my posts if you feel that they are taunting you. They aren't taunting me. I'm not taunting you. But what do you think about the whole tough love approach? Is it effective, or do people just become defensive? Does taunting help? Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 After people have done something one time, it's even easier to do it a second time. And just for the record, it can become a precursor to never doing it again! Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 After people have done something one time, it's even easier to do it a second time. By your logic, if I kick my dog one time, it makes it easier for me to kick him again. Hmm. So anything that I do one time, I am more than likely to do again. Interesting. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 By your logic, if I kick my dog one time, it makes it easier for me to kick him again. Hmm. So anything that I do one time, I am more than likely to do again. Interesting. Yes, if you told me that you "never" kick you dog, that you only kicked it that one time but that you'd "never do it again." Well, I wouldn't believe you. You already kicked it before. Link to post Share on other sites
MizFit Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Of course humans can say 'never'. We can say lots of things and if the circumstances are right (or wrong) all of that reserve goes out the window. I said never for 46 years...it was the one thing in a marriage that I would not tolerate (ask the husband who was unceremoniously dumped upon my discovering his A) and I had no desire to be part of. Then I met someone and I developed very strong feelings very quickly and it happened. All of the 'nevers' went right out the window. Could I have changed or stopped it, yes. Now that he is my xmm do I wish I had, not on your life. I'm back to a negative outlook, but I'm not saying 'never'...I'm saying 'I don't see it happening again'. I'm not talking about xmm-I'm talking about mm at all. We are all capable of things that our moral codes tell us not to do...every person is in a different situation to every other person. I can say I would never kill someone, but if my situation were that of a parent who had to kill to protect a child I know I'd bloody well do it. Never is a great word and a fabulous commitment, but at times in life it's a guideline because situations can lead us away from what we would normally do. I'm not slagging off anyone who is saying an emphatic 'never'...I'm just giving my humble opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
lori22 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Sure your situation now is fine and you feel as though you can say you will never cheat or be involved with a MP,but how do you know your situation 2,5,or 10 years from now. Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I think there are a lot of people who will go their whole lives and NEVER be in an affair, and will never even think about it. I think there are a lot of people who think they will NEVER be in an affair, but find somewhere down the road that they thought wrong. I think that there are people who are so appalled by the thought of an affair that they can honestly say that they will NEVER be involved in an affair, and will fight so hard against any urge they may later encounter to the contrary, that they really will NEVER be in an affair. I don't think any of us ever thought we would be in an affair before we were in OUR affair. I am sure most of us thought NEVER! For the most part, even we OTHERs do not think affairs are right and moral, and therefore NEVER set out to be party to one. (though if I do not admit that some people go and seek affairs just for the sheer hell of it, and may have never thought NEVER... then someone will come along and remind me.) Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Sure your situation now is fine and you feel as though you can say you will never cheat or be involved with a MP,but how do you know your situation 2,5,or 10 years from now. REALLY NID, 10 years from now you could be a crack whore walking the street sleeping with anyone for $10! I don't understand the logic of: YOU can neve say never because I said it once then ended up doing it anyway because I wanted to. What about the people who said never and never did. My reasons aren't necessarily moral ones as they are VERY personal ones. Does the reason behind ones convictions have any bearing on ones ability to stick to them? Link to post Share on other sites
OpenBook Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I don't understand the logic of: YOU can neve say never because I said it once then ended up doing it anyway because I wanted to. What about the people who said never and never did. What about them? Are you (and the OP) looking for a Gold Star here? Do you want an acknowledgment from all of us lowly sinners that you are on a higher and loftier plane than we are? Do you want us to grovel at your feet? Or is it that you are "trying to help us" get up there with you in that high elevation, so we can be just like you? Why do you assume we would want to be like you? Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 In another thread it was mentioned that since we are all "human" we can't say "never". A few months ago I got into a heated discussion with an OW because I said I could never have an affair. She told me that I could not be sure and I insisted that I can. How can I be so sure? Because I know myself better than anyone. First, I would leave my H if I felt I wanted to be with an OM. Second, if I were single, I could never be interested in a MM who would cheat on his wife. That would be a huge turn off in every way. However, that is not what I want to say in this thread. I was intrigued by the statement regarding affairs, that humans make mistakes. Now, I agree that no one is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. But, as a "human" when I make decisions, I think about how my actions will effect other "humans". I think that is what so many people who see affairs as wrong and destructive can't understand. How anyone can do something knowing that someone (maybe even themselves) could get hurt. A person doesn't need to be a BS, AP or ever involved in an affair to think they are wrong, they just have to be "human" So, another poster may consider affairs to be human, but my definition of being human means looking out for humanity as a whole and trying to do my best to help and not hurt others. I also don't think being human means you get what you what at the expense of others. I guess that is the difference between just being a human and being humane. JMO So in Here Nows opinion people who cheat or engage in affairs are inhumane. Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Link to post Share on other sites
Fallen Angel Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) So in Here Nows opinion people who cheat or engage in affairs are inhumane. Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. You are right, everyone is entitled to their opinion, I for one (and as I read it you are too) one who does not happen to agree with that opinion. I am someone who is currently engaged in an affair. I am also someone who is currently engaged in several community outreach programs that serve people even less fortunate than myself. (And trust me when I say that these days it is harder and harder to find people in more dire straights than myself.) I am also someone who has been known to share my meal with a stranger who was hungry, when I was unsure where my next meal was coming from. I have donated one of my last two dollars to charity. I have helped feed and clothe the hungry and homeless. I have donated blood, I have signed up on the bone marrow donor list. I checked the box to be an organ donor. I have invited a local prostitute to come have Thanksgiving dinner with myself and my family because she has no one to be with on that day. I have taken in and fed and found homes for dozens of stray pets. I have worked as a volunteer in a hospital reading to and playing with sick children whose parents had to leave the hospital sometimes to sleep/work. I have grocery shopped in my own home (cause i had no money to spare) to help feed a neighbors family after she lost her job. (and dropped the food bags on her porch so she didn't know where they came from.) So I would have to say that I am far from inhumane. Though it appears that my one act of selfishness in loving and wanting a man, who OFFERED HIMSELF TO ME to love, makes me inhumane in the eyes of many. But no matter how many times someone tries to give me the inhumane/compassionless tag to wear, I just simply refuse to accept it. Edited November 21, 2009 by Fallen Angel Link to post Share on other sites
joyz Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 A few months ago I got into a heated discussion with an OW because I said I could never have an affair. How can I be so sure? Because I know myself better than anyone. First, I would leave my H if I felt I wanted to be with an OM. Second, if I were single, I could never be interested in a MM who would cheat on his wife. what if you were dating a single guy for 2 years and then he marries someone else while still dating you? thats what happened to me. i was an "OW" during the shock, denial, what just happened phase!, which lasted a while. you might know yourself, but you don't know for sure what circumstances life will put you through. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Sure your situation now is fine and you feel as though you can say you will never cheat or be involved with a MP,but how do you know your situation 2,5,or 10 years from now. I don't have to ever know what the situation is, I know God and I know me. Affairs aren't my weakness. I have other vices that I probably couldn't use the word "never" with. But with affairs, never is a just that, never. Been on the receiving end, seen devastation, watched others be destroyed for years. I couldn't put that kind of pain on someone else. Watching my own kids faces, knowing what it did to me and our extended families. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Yes, if you told me that you "never" kick you dog, that you only kicked it that one time but that you'd "never do it again." Well, I wouldn't believe you. You already kicked it before. That's not the way humans work. Most have some internal norms that allow them to feel empathy and learn from the pain they cause others so that they won't repeat that pain. If not learning from the internal, then the external rewards and punishments. Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'm trying to figure out why it brings out the defensiveness in people that others who've never cheated, say they never will? Not everyone copes by cheating. C'est la vie. Link to post Share on other sites
Ariadne Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 learn from the pain they cause others so that they won't repeat that pain. If not learning from the internal, then the external rewards and punishments. They knew about the pain all along, no need to learn, and if they went through something traumatic as "experiencing" the pain, then the second time around it will be not as traumatic. That will certainly not stop them, and the external didn't work before. The only way things won't happen again is if the circumstances won't repeat. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 By the way, when I was 18, I swore I would never eat red meat of pig again, I'm 43 and still not eaten either. And I say I'll never eat them again. I can say with the same confidence that I'll never be a low life cheater again, period! Does that make me self rightous because I've come through this storm to become spiritually stronger, not at all. But when I was healing from my pains, mistakes and douche-baggery, I had others who walked the path to healing that guided me with their "tough love". Thank goodness I was smart enough to listen and not be a lost soul for longer than I needed to be Link to post Share on other sites
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