hopeless4u Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 So it breaks your heart to be without them, of course it does, YOU/I love them. I have been 'in love' for far to long and I have been looking for something to make me 'see sense', well I got it yesterday thanks to LS helping me ask the right question. For those who don't know my story, OW sucked in by MM, he's not a bad person but he is still a MM and I've been with him for 2years! I love him more than I love myself, obviously. I found out yesterday by asking the right question(read previous threads/posts) he is still being physical with his wife, something I was lead to believe wasn't happening (again previous posts) so my advice and the reason for the post is ask the question and make sure he answers it correctly and doesn't tell you what you need to hear. My MM has never lied to me(so he says) and I do believe that but he has always answered my questions(as they are asked) and I have finally realised I asked the wrong questions or maybe the right questions just in the wrong way thinking it made things ok but he WILL answer the way that suits HIS needs, whether that be him feeling better for what he's doing or his guilt for how you are feeling. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 So true. You would be surprised how many of them WANT to share everything with you. Just don't be afraid of what you might hear. If you're sleeping with someone, you shouldn't fear asking any kind of question at all. And demand the truth. Sometimes, making it safe for them to express the truth is a delicate thing. The truth may make you scream with anger but holding back the anger is what you need to do to get the truth. Be calm and patient and he will spill the beans. Link to post Share on other sites
Author hopeless4u Posted November 21, 2009 Author Share Posted November 21, 2009 Very true White Flower. I have never questioned that he was honest with me when I asked a question but I do now see how the OW can be as betrayed as the BW/BS. I truly believed him when he said being with me was easy because he could be honest! I had no reason to think he was lying to me, why would he, I know everything! Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Very true White Flower. I have never questioned that he was honest with me when I asked a question but I do now see how the OW can be as betrayed as the BW/BS. I truly believed him when he said being with me was easy because he could be honest! I had no reason to think he was lying to me, why would he, I know everything! Well, be careful with that because there was a time I thought I knew everything. He seemed like such an open book with me but I did dig and find out more. Be very careful! Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'm confused what this is about. What do you mean, ask the right questions? What questions and why ask them? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I had no reason to think he was lying to me, why would he, I know everything! How interesting that this is exactly how most BSs feel until they find out that they are being lied to as well. Link to post Share on other sites
Mini-Me Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I'm confused what this is about. What do you mean, ask the right questions? What questions and why ask them? RD, I believe this particular question was: "are you still having sex with your wife?" and the MM's answer was YES.... OP was suggesting that she was lead to believe that they werent still engaging in love making, and she found out yesterday that indeed, they are. I commented to another poster just yesterday that OM/OW's are deathly afraid to "ask the right questions, the right way". They are afraid if they do, their MM/MW will get upset and go running back to their marital castle, pull up the drawbridge leaving them all alone, while they watch from afar as the MM/MW jumps back into the arms of the BS, happily ever after..... SO, they don't ask the "black and white" questions. Instead, they ask a "coloring book" question. Like handing their cheating MM/MW an outlined question for the MM/MW to color in as they see fit - awwww how beautiful.. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 thanks for clarifying Mimi, but really, I don't think the other cheater has any rights to ask any questions of their married lovers?! The other person has entered into an affair with someone who has someone else in their life and that other person has no rights to what the married person is doing. I'm really stumped, because do cheaters who are with married people really think they have ANY rights with when it comes to the lives of the people they are cheating with? Link to post Share on other sites
Mini-Me Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 thanks for clarifying Mimi, but really, I don't think the other cheater has any rights to ask any questions of their married lovers?! The other person has entered into an affair with someone who has someone else in their life and that other person has no rights to what the married person is doing. I'm really stumped, because do cheaters who are with married people really think they have ANY rights with when it comes to the lives of the people they are cheating with? It's "Mini", and it's not about "rights", it's about what you are being told, or what the MM/MW is making you believe, that the marriage is broken, that they are on their way out, and that you are where they are headed.. Many of us believed that we just "showed up early".. at first... again, this isnt about any "legal right" Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 thanks for clarifying Mimi, but really, I don't think the other cheater has any rights to ask any questions of their married lovers?! The other person has entered into an affair with someone who has someone else in their life and that other person has no rights to what the married person is doing. I'm really stumped, because do cheaters who are with married people really think they have ANY rights with when it comes to the lives of the people they are cheating with? I am a woman having a relationship with a man who unfortunately is married to someone else. I ask the same questions I would ask any man I have a relationship with. I don't see our relationship as different from any other relationship, except that there is one more person being affected by it. I wonder how stumped you really are. Obviously my moral code as an OW is different than yours. I can't believe that is a surprise to you. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I am a woman having a relationship with a man who unfortunately is married to someone else. I ask the same questions I would ask any man I have a relationship with. I don't see our relationship as different from any other relationship, except that there is one more person being affected by it. I wonder how stumped you really are. Obviously my moral code as an OW is different than yours. I can't believe that is a surprise to you. It does surprise me, because when I was a cheater, I never asked the married guy I was with any questions about his life. I had no rights to. And what I bolded, this is some of the deepest denial I've seen thus far on LS. You have no rights because cheating is not a relationship, it's cheating. I'm not a cheater anymore by the way, I did it once close to 10 yrs ago. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 It's "Mini", and it's not about "rights", it's about what you are being told, or what the MM/MW is making you believe, that the marriage is broken, that they are on their way out, and that you are where they are headed.. Many of us believed that we just "showed up early".. at first... again, this isnt about any "legal right" Sorry, Mini :-) Ok, so that is the first huge mistake; believing what a cheater tells you. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Does anyone get that cheating is a union of lies, deceit and total disrespect, why would anyone believe there are any rules to this sort of union?! There are no rules. He's married to his wife and has every right NOT to tell you if he's sleeping with his wife. If he tells you otherwise and you believe him, your bad! And p.s. any man if offered sex will take it. Do you think if he's having sex with his wife, he'll tell you? NO! Why, because then the illusion that he's all yours is shattered and then he gets less from you. It's parasitic behviour. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Heather1 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 I would never ask that question! It's not a normal relationship by any means. Flat out, MM are having sex with their wife. There's the answer, you don't even need to ask. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Spark1111 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 hopeless4u, that must have taken a lot of courage to ask the right question, regardless of the pain it caused you to find out the truth. My fWS's OW asked how often he and I were intimate and he told her rarely to almost never. She never asked him to define rarely. He never did. We were intimate at least once a week during his affair. I took it as an indicator that although he was a million miles away emotionally, we were in better shape than many others. I know, stupid me. And as I have learned more of the relationship in MC and through discussion, I still remain amazed at what was not spoken of, not questioned during his affair. That took guts. Be proud of yourself. Link to post Share on other sites
Mini-Me Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Sorry, Mini :-) Ok, so that is the first huge mistake; believing what a cheater tells you. we get that, now.... That is the purpose of this post, to "help" others see it, not to make them feel worse. Seems you have a little "edge" about you.. You "OK"? So back to that purpose: Yes indeedy, ask your sweetie, did you screw your spouse tonight? Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 we get that, now.... That is the purpose of this post, to "help" others see it, not to make them feel worse. Seems you have a little "edge" about you.. You "OK"? So back to that purpose: Yes indeedy, ask your sweetie, did you screw your spouse tonight? an edge? Is reality an edge? Here is a better idea, how about not getting involved with married people and then there is no need for any questions? Seems MUCH more logical to me! Link to post Share on other sites
jennie-jennie Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 It does surprise me, because when I was a cheater, I never asked the married guy I was with any questions about his life. I had no rights to. And what I bolded, this is some of the deepest denial I've seen thus far on LS. You have no rights because cheating is not a relationship, it's cheating. I'm not a cheater anymore by the way, I did it once close to 10 yrs ago. What baffles me is that people 10 years later have a need to post aggressively about this issue. I am from a different culture. I have a different moral code. Thus my tag line: "Unapologetic Other Woman". Link to post Share on other sites
Mini-Me Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 an edge? Is reality an edge? Here is a better idea, how about not getting involved with married people and then there is no need for any questions? Seems MUCH more logical to me! um.. I am not involved with a married person. I was, just like you, but not anymore and never again, unless I am married to them... I just think that it serves the people here that ARE currently involved to help them see that they can ask the tough questions, and if they are afraid that this might upset the MM/MW and causes them to run back to their BS, then thay should take a real, hard look at how f*cked up that is.. and perhaps they too will become free, like you and me, don't you see, that it could be?? Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 What baffles me is that people 10 years later have a need to post aggressively about this issue. I am from a different culture. I have a different moral code. Thus my tag line: "Unapologetic Other Woman". No need to be baffled and my posts are agressive only to those who take little sympathy for the hurt they cause others. Different cultures have different moral codes that actually make one an unaplogetic cheater? Wow, what culture is this? Humans all follow the same moral standards and culture is such a POOR excuse for living a life of lies. Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 (edited) um.. I am not involved with a married person. I was, just like you, but not anymore and never again, unless I am married to them... I just think that it serves the people here that ARE currently involved to help them see that they can ask the tough questions, and if they are afraid that this might upset the MM/MW and causes them to run back to their BS, then thay should take a real, hard look at how f*cked up that is.. and perhaps they too will become free, like you and me, don't you see, that it could be?? I agree it's wise for a cheater to ask the tough questions, but only if these questions are going to give answers on giving strength to leave the affair and not to find out if "their" man/woman is being untrue. They are all cheating, there is no truth in any of it. But I get it. I was so in denial when I was having an affair. No one was able to knock much sense into me But now that I'm away from that madness, I see how crazy it is to ask a man you're cheating with if he's sleeping with his wife? When I was cheating, the cheater I was with once called me to tell me he was going away for 2 weeks on vacation with his wife. I was so hurt and in shock. How could he do this to me?! He told me he didn't love her or that he had sex with her. Surely they were going to have sex when away?! See the insanity here! Am I the only one who sees the madness in this? Or maybe I'm not really getting the reason for asking it?! Edited November 21, 2009 by RedDevil66 Link to post Share on other sites
Mini-Me Posted November 21, 2009 Share Posted November 21, 2009 Am I the only one who sees the madness in this? Or maybe I'm not really getting the reason for asking it?! no, you are not the only one, and I dont see why you feel that way. It is once these questions ARE asked, that the madness becomes clearer... There are OW on here that can put up with it. I, for the life of me can not see how. There are others that have blinders on and wont ask the question.. I dont know, I dont get it either.. NOW Link to post Share on other sites
RedDevil66 Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 no, you are not the only one, and I dont see why you feel that way. It is once these questions ARE asked, that the madness becomes clearer... There are OW on here that can put up with it. I, for the life of me can not see how. There are others that have blinders on and wont ask the question.. I dont know, I dont get it either.. NOW Ok, well then if the questions are asked for clarity and to gain the strength to see the madness, then yes, by all means, one needs to ask. But again, asking a cheater who is deep into decpetions and lies will only result in answers laced with deception and lies. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted November 22, 2009 Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ok, well then if the questions are asked for clarity and to gain the strength to see the madness, then yes, by all means, one needs to ask. But again, asking a cheater who is deep into decpetions and lies will only result in answers laced with deception and lies.Only if he/she still wants to cheat. It is everyone's prerogative to change. It is human nature to grow. Link to post Share on other sites
Author hopeless4u Posted November 22, 2009 Author Share Posted November 22, 2009 Ok, well then if the questions are asked for clarity and to gain the strength to see the madness, then yes, by all means, one needs to ask. But again, asking a cheater who is deep into decpetions and lies will only result in answers laced with deception and lies. I try very hard not to get into a debate with people about opinions as everyone has the right to voice theirs but......How can you say some of the things you say to and about OW when you have been one yourself?? Did you have any feelings for your AP or was it just sex?? We as OW KNOW we are wrong, we also KNOW the MM/MW is wrong but we ARE here in this situation and we OBVIOUSLY want help to find a way out of the mess WE have got ourselves into else WE wouldn't be posting on here. If we could turn the clock back I'm sure many OW would not get involved but we have and we can't change that so advice saying DON'T get involved in the first place really isn't advice at all, we know this now!! So I guess what I am trying to say is if you just want to vent anger or make us feel like the scum of the earth that is fine but don't try to dress it up as advise! And as for asking the right question I am living proof that not ALL MM will lie when you ask the right question, sometimes you will get the answer you really don't want to hear and it is then, YOUR CHOICE what you do with that information. Link to post Share on other sites
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