To single OW/OM out there, ask the right question!

[White Flower]

I try very hard not to get into a debate with people about opinions as everyone has the right to voice theirs but......How can you say some of the things you say to and about OW when you have been one yourself?? Did you have any feelings for your AP or was it just sex?? We as OW KNOW we are wrong, we also KNOW the MM/MW is wrong but we ARE here in this situation and we OBVIOUSLY want help to find a way out of the mess WE have got ourselves into else WE wouldn't be posting on here.

If we could turn the clock back I'm sure many OW would not get involved but we have and we can't change that so advice saying DON'T get involved in the first place really isn't advice at all, we know this now!!

 

So I guess what I am trying to say is if you just want to vent anger or make us feel like the scum of the earth that is fine but don't try to dress it up as advise!

 

And as for asking the right question I am living proof that not ALL MM will lie when you ask the right question, sometimes you will get the answer you really don't want to hear and it is then, YOUR CHOICE what you do with that information.

Again it is all about perception. Not wanting to speak for Red Devil but I can only assume she was young at the time of her A, that her A was not the most significant R in her life, and did not see her MM as anything other than a cheater as well as herself. If all these things are true, then no need to ask deep questions; only a need to get out!

 

I asked questions and some of the answers hurt. But having him see the pain on my face made him want to be a better man and do the right thing. You can't know something like that without taking the risk. Ask the questions.

 

RD, I get the sense that you saw yourself as a FWB to your exMM and nothing more. If you had seen your R with him as one of deep love you wouldn't feel the need to use such heavy labels such as 'cheaters'. You would have just seen yourselves as lovers and him as perhaps the love of your life. In that case, you would have surely seen the need to ask deep questions. Any R worth having deserves communication and deep consideration.

Edited November 22, 2009 by White Flower

[hopeless4u]

Again it is all about perception. Not wanting to speak for Red Devil but I can only assume she was young at the time of her A, that her A was not the most significant R in her life, and did not see her MM as anything other than a cheater as well as herself. If all these things are true, then no need to ask deep questions; only a need to get out!

 

I asked questions and some of the answers hurt. But having him see the pain on my face made him want to be a better man and do the right thing. You can't know something like that without taking the risk. Ask the questions.

 

RD, I get the sense that you saw yourself as a FWB to your exMM and nothing more. If you had seen your R with him as one of deep love you wouldn't feel the need to use such heavy labels such as 'cheaters'. You would have just seen yourselves as lovers and him as perhaps the love of your life. In that case, you would have surely seen the need to ask deep questions. Any R worth having deserves communication and deep consideration.

 

Yeah I agree which is why I try not to get into debates with people and all advise is welcome, even the very harsh hits home sometimes. I just needed to make a point thats all.

 

My MM also hates it when he see's me in pain which I think is part of the reason he can't let go. This time round though I am strong, strong enough to know 100% that I will not fall back into our old ways, I can't. It was 1 thing being with a MM when his M was already failing but to have found out he is still giving her the green light to be intimate makes me sick to my stomach!! I'm actually shaking with temper as I type just thinking about it!!

That said, he isn't a bad man, just very messed up I think and if this is the thing that makes him face up to things then great, if not, with that 'thought' in my mind I can honestly say I can and will walk away!!

[RedDevil66]

Again it is all about perception. Not wanting to speak for Red Devil but I can only assume she was young at the time of her A, that her A was not the most significant R in her life, and did not see her MM as anything other than a cheater as well as herself. If all these things are true, then no need to ask deep questions; only a need to get out!

 

I asked questions and some of the answers hurt. But having him see the pain on my face made him want to be a better man and do the right thing. You can't know something like that without taking the risk. Ask the questions.

 

RD, I get the sense that you saw yourself as a FWB to your exMM and nothing more. If you had seen your R with him as one of deep love you wouldn't feel the need to use such heavy labels such as 'cheaters'. You would have just seen yourselves as lovers and him as perhaps the love of your life. In that case, you would have surely seen the need to ask deep questions. Any R worth having deserves communication and deep consideration.

 

 

I was 33 when I had the affair and I was more in love with this guy than anyone I've ever been with.

I was not young, but truly emotionally immature 10 yrs ago.

 

My affair with him lasted over a year. And I truly believed he was my future and my life. He lived 3 hrs from me and I was prepared to move my life, quit my job and start all over with him.

That's how in love and delusional I was.

He told me he was going to leave his wife and that I was his world, and I believed him. But I also felt I never had the right to ask him if he was sleeping with his wife.

I never felt I had the right to intrude on his other world.

 

Listen, there is NO sense in affairs, They are just a bunch of jumbled, raw and out of control emotions.

 

I didn't need to ask the right questions to leave, I just needed to regain my dignity and knew it was time.

 

And I call it as I see it. Sugar coating the terms such as OW is, to me, is not reality. I was a cheater, and anyone having an affair is a cheater.

Calling oneself OW seems neat and tidy, and it's not!

[RedDevil66]

 

So I guess what I am trying to say is if you just want to vent anger or make us feel like the scum of the earth that is fine but don't try to dress it up as advise!

 

.

 

no one has the power to make you feel like scum, only you have that power.

I've never called the cheaters on here scum, I've referred to myself as scum when I was cheating.

 

And I call tell you this, the best advice I got when I was cheating is the same advice I offer here. It was called reality. I'm not dressing anything up, I think I am pretty open and honest about my advice.

Take it or leave it. I don't really care.

 

I just know what got me out of my fantasy land and on to a better way of living.

 

Just don't read my posts, it's simple! :-)

[hopeless4u]

no one has the power to make you feel like scum, only you have that power.

I've never called the cheaters on here scum, I've referred to myself as scum when I was cheating.

 

And I call tell you this, the best advice I got when I was cheating is the same advice I offer here. It was called reality. I'm not dressing anything up, I think I am pretty open and honest about my advice.

Take it or leave it. I don't really care.

 

I just know what got me out of my fantasy land and on to a better way of living.

 

Just don't read my posts, it's simple! :-)

 

 

I have no problem reading your posts or anyone else's and some of what you say I totally agree with. I was just pointing out that some of what you say doesn't come across as advice thats all.

[hopeless4u]

RD, I believe this particular question was: "are you still having sex with your wife?" and the MM's answer was YES....

 

OP was suggesting that she was lead to believe that they werent still engaging in love making, and she found out yesterday that indeed, they are.

 

I commented to another poster just yesterday that OM/OW's are deathly afraid to "ask the right questions, the right way". They are afraid if they do, their MM/MW will get upset and go running back to their marital castle, pull up the drawbridge leaving them all alone, while they watch from afar as the MM/MW jumps back into the arms of the BS, happily ever after.....

 

SO, they don't ask the "black and white" questions. Instead, they ask a "coloring book" question. Like handing their cheating MM/MW an outlined question for the MM/MW to color in as they see fit - awwww how beautiful..

 

 

In my case I have asked on more than 1 occasion if he was still sleeping with his W, his answer was 'well we share the same bed' so ok as a MM I have to live with that. On another occasion when asked the same question he said 'I can assure you none of that is happening', again leading me to believe they were not being intimate but this time I asked and he said he couldn't 'perform' anyway as he felt like he was betraying me, which lead me to my next question of how he knew he couldn't 'perform'?? And then the BOMBSHELL came, he knew because he was still doing everything but sex!!

[Lucky_One]

he said he couldn't 'perform' anyway as he felt like he was betraying me, which lead me to my next question of how he knew he couldn't 'perform'?? And then the BOMBSHELL came, he knew because he was still doing everything but sex!!

 

Well, it's good to know that he can still do everything but penetration without betraying you.

[hopeless4u]

Well, it's good to know that he can still do everything but penetration without betraying you.

 

 

He had said once before that his W had tried to hold his hand when they were walking once and he found an excuse to let go as he felt he was betraying me so you can imagine my surprise when I found this out.

Its out now though and as I said in a previous post my head and heart finally agree with each other and hopefully I can move forward now and if it is with him he knows what needs to be done and he knows I will not compromise on this.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

he knew because he was still doing everything but sex!!

 

How many married men do you think are sleeping in the same bed with their wife and doing everything BUT SEX???? Don't be naive, he's trying to pacify you. He slipped while trying to pacify you. People who can't keep up with their own stories are liars.

[NoIDidn't]

There will come a point when asking the right question will get you the most painful answers ever.

 

I had found out that my bf (now an ex) had recently gotten engaged to the girl that he told me he was no longer with. So I asked him about that. He told me "yes", but that he still had space in his life for me. Incredulous, I asked him as what. He told me as "[his] mistress".

 

Sometimes, asking the right question isn't so much about what the answer is, but what you do with the information.

 

I would have been a fool to keep going back and forth about staying with him, when I was told upfront exactly what I was to him. I walked and never looked back. I didn't hang around and give him the opportunity to make me compromise the agreement between my head and my heart. And I think this is what you should do. Honestly, I see nothing in this for you other than more questions and the final announcement to you from him that he never intends to leave his marriage and that you can take it or leave it, as you already know that he is married (he's already used that line on you - and my ex used it on me as well.)

[hopeless4u]

he knew because he was still doing everything but sex!!

 

How many married men do you think are sleeping in the same bed with their wife and doing everything BUT SEX???? Don't be naive, he's trying to pacify you. He slipped while trying to pacify you. People who can't keep up with their own stories are liars.

 

 

Yes I was naive, I think I knew this was going on but didn't want to believe it, I must of else I wouldn't of needed to ask the question. Maybe because I heard it straight from the horses mouth so to speak it hit the right spot. I'm stronger now and he knows it:)

[Confused4Now]

he knew because he was still doing everything but sex!!

 

How many married men do you think are sleeping in the same bed with their wife and doing everything BUT SEX???? Don't be naive, he's trying to pacify you. He slipped while trying to pacify you. People who can't keep up with their own stories are liars.

I have to so agree with this....This was the main reason I moved out when I started my Divorce. I knew if i was in the same house I would work my way back in the Bedroom. I mean us men are human but I was in love with my MW and I really didn't want to look at her and lie. My Ex if not a bad looking woman either and even though I was not emotionally attached to her as I was with my MW. I could see myself doing the deed....so I didn't want to put myself there.

[hopeless4u]

There will come a point when asking the right question will get you the most painful answers ever.

 

I had found out that my bf (now an ex) had recently gotten engaged to the girl that he told me he was no longer with. So I asked him about that. He told me "yes", but that he still had space in his life for me. Incredulous, I asked him as what. He told me as "[his] mistress".

 

Sometimes, asking the right question isn't so much about what the answer is, but what you do with the information.

 

I would have been a fool to keep going back and forth about staying with him, when I was told upfront exactly what I was to him. I walked and never looked back. I didn't hang around and give him the opportunity to make me compromise the agreement between my head and my heart. And I think this is what you should do. Honestly, I see nothing in this for you other than more questions and the final announcement to you from him that he never intends to leave his marriage and that you can take it or leave it, as you already know that he is married (he's already used that line on you - and my ex used it on me as well.)

 

 

I agree and I have ended it with him, we are still friends as we work together and even after everything I still believe he is a good person but this time I feel different, stronger about my decision. I can not and will not be anything more than a friend to him until he has left his W and this time I'm not waiting around for the result, if I'm single and still want him if/when he leaves then who knows.

[hopeless4u]

I have to so agree with this....This was the main reason I moved out when I started my Divorce. I knew if i was in the same house I would work my way back in the Bedroom. I mean us men are human but I was in love with my MW and I really didn't want to look at her and lie. My Ex if not a bad looking woman either and even though I was not emotionally attached to her as I was with my MW. I could see myself doing the deed....so I didn't want to put myself there.

 

 

This is interesting, my MM said after our conversation that basically I was saying nothing can happen between us now then until he moves out as he can't promise me that he won't be physical/intimate with his W while he is still living there! Another reason I feel stronger this time. As far as I am concerned if he is still being intimate with his W then he shouldn't be with me.

[justforfun]

I'm at a loss as to why you would think that asking 'the right questions' would get you honest answers. Isn't this another attempt to make yourself feel like you have some control in this relationship, you can get the truth if you want to, and to try and pretend their is some sense of truth in the relationship?

 

It's built on lies, deceit and betrayal. You can just inject honesty by asking 'the right questions.' The only thing you can honestly tell yourself is that he is a liar.

 

What other situation could you be in where you could expect the other person to answer honestly just because you asked 'the right questions?' It really doesn't make logical sense.

[jennie-jennie]

My MM has always answered honestly to questions about having sex with his wife, even though he knew the answer would hurt me. Now when he does not have sex with her any longer, he himself brings up the subject every now and then, reassuring me that that is still the case. I don't need to ask anymore.

 

I do believe him because I do not see the point of torturing me for 3 1/2 years, only to suddenly start lying.

 

If he would have sex with her after she had initiated it, I would be okay with that. I know the pain of rejection. I am not expecting him to put her through that. But she seems surprisingly okay with having no sex life, which most likely was part of the problem to start with.

Edited November 23, 2009 by jennie-jennie

[justforfun]

My MM has always answered honestly to questions about having sex with his wife

 

And you know this to be true? How?

[RedDevil66]

I would be okay with that. I know the pain of rejection. I am not expecting him to put her through that.

 

Ahhh, how thoughtful and considerate of you to think about his wife.

Now how about stop schtooping him if you don't want her to go through pain?!??!

 

 

Man oh man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[White Flower]

I was 33 when I had the affair and I was more in love with this guy than anyone I've ever been with.

I was not young, but truly emotionally immature 10 yrs ago.

 

My affair with him lasted over a year. And I truly believed he was my future and my life. He lived 3 hrs from me and I was prepared to move my life, quit my job and start all over with him.

That's how in love and delusional I was.

He told me he was going to leave his wife and that I was his world, and I believed him. But I also felt I never had the right to ask him if he was sleeping with his wife.

I never felt I had the right to intrude on his other world.

 

Listen, there is NO sense in affairs, They are just a bunch of jumbled, raw and out of control emotions.

 

I didn't need to ask the right questions to leave, I just needed to regain my dignity and knew it was time.

 

And I call it as I see it. Sugar coating the terms such as OW is, to me, is not reality. I was a cheater, and anyone having an affair is a cheater.

Calling oneself OW seems neat and tidy, and it's not!

Inquiring is not the same as intruding. Sleeping in the BW's bed is intruding because that violates living space but asking MM to look introspectively at his R with his W helps him to see what kind of decisions he needs to make and well as the OW.

 

To the bolded part, how did those EMRs we see so much around here turn into happy Ms if they were 'raw and out of control emotions'? Asking questions is how. It's called communication and enough love and drive to become committed to the one you love.

[NoIDidn't]

To the bolded part, how did those EMRs we see so much around here turn into happy Ms if they were 'raw and out of control emotions'? Asking questions is how. It's called communication and enough love and drive to become committed to the one you love.

 

In all honesty, WF, we only see a lot of out of control emotions around here. There are only two or three regular posters that have actually married their MP of all of the posters that have been through here since I've been posting.

 

And there is a marked difference in the way that the OPs in those situations handled themselves. The affairs that are coming off as raw and out of control emotion, don't generally end up as marriages.

[White Flower]

In all honesty, WF, we only see a lot of out of control emotions around here. There are only two or three regular posters that have actually married their MP of all of the posters that have been through here since I've been posting.

 

And there is a marked difference in the way that the OPs in those situations handled themselves. The affairs that are coming off as raw and out of control emotion, don't generally end up as marriages.

I should have stated that differently and you're right, there are not a lot. However, those EMRs that did become Ms certainly utilized communication at the core of their foundation. And they weren't afraid of the answers when they asked hard questions.

[jennie-jennie]

Ahhh, how thoughtful and considerate of you to think about his wife.

Now how about stop schtooping him if you don't want her to go through pain?!??!

 

 

Man oh man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

To clarify I meant sexual rejection when you are in a steady relationship. You want sex, your partner rejects you.

 

His wife and I are in love with the same man. There is nothing I can do about that. I can't "give" him to her like it was a piece of candy I could just as well do without. Just like she is not going to "give" him to me. It is not within my power to spare her from the pain of him having an EMR. But as long as he still is with her and she suspects nothing, I think it would be cruel of him (and of me to expect it) to reject her sexually if she takes the initiative.

 

And yeah, yeah, you are going to say it is within my power to let him go. I just am not that empathetic.

[OWoman]

To clarify I meant sexual rejection when you are in a steady relationship. You want sex, your partner rejects you.

 

His wife and I are in love with the same man. There is nothing I can do about that. I can't "give" him to her like it was a piece of candy I could just as well do without. Just like she is not going to "give" him to me. It is not within my power to spare her from the pain of him having an EMR. But as long as he still is with her and she suspects nothing, I think it would be cruel of him (and of me to expect it) to reject her sexually if she takes the initiative.

 

And yeah, yeah, you are going to say it is within my power to let him go. I just am not that empathetic.

 

It's not only a question of your "empathy" (or otherwise), it's also a question of his free will. You cannot force him to love his W, or to love her exclusively. While you can choose not to reciprocate his attention or feelings, you can't turn his feelings for you off like a tap. That is entirely his choice, and implying that it's your responsibility to make him do so is simply naive and misguided.

[OWoman]

In all honesty' date=' WF, we only see a lot of out of control emotions around here. There are only two or three regular posters that have actually married their MP of all of the posters that have been through here since I've been posting.[/quote']

 

GEL

OWoman

Old Europe

Girl with Glasses

HappyAtLast and his OW

 

Together, but not M:

TogetherForever

ComplicatedLife

and some others I can't quite place right now

oh, and of course Lyssa - RIP

 

It would be interesting to go through the archives at LS and see what the stats reveal. I suspect the vast buik would be "unknown outcome" since many people stop posting here without a clear resolution being evident, but of those with known outcomes, it would be interesting to see what the short-term, and longer-term, outcomes were.

 

/end t/j

[NoIDidn't]

GEL

OWoman

Old Europe

Girl with Glasses

HappyAtLast and his OW

 

Together, but not M:

TogetherForever

ComplicatedLife

and some others I can't quite place right now

oh, and of course Lyssa - RIP

 

It would be interesting to go through the archives at LS and see what the stats reveal. I suspect the vast buik would be "unknown outcome" since many people stop posting here without a clear resolution being evident, but of those with known outcomes, it would be interesting to see what the short-term, and longer-term, outcomes were.

 

/end t/j

 

I don't find it helpful to keep listing these names as if there is some sort of hierarchy of who was the better OW/OM.

 

This was posted in response to a series of post explaining the "raw" and "out of control emotions" exhibited by some/most in this forum. So would it be helpful to name their names as well?

 

Other than the late Lyssa who was actually engaged to marry her guy, I can't see why to include the second list as the point was about married affair couples, not those that avoided marriage for whatever reasons.

 

I think the stats would bear out the fact that most affairs just don't end in marriage, no matter how anyone tries to skew it.

 

(Is this really so off-topic as to be a t/j? If so, sorry guys. Its just so interesting to see how people who once had affairs always separate themselves into groups based on how the affairs ended as if one affair was better than the other because of the way it ended. IMO, the ends never justify the means.)