Happy, healthy long-term - but marriage is not for him...

[Dhanna]

*sigh*

 

My partner and I have been together for almost 6 years. We have an amazing and healthy relationship. He is my best friend, my lover, he listens and puts me first above all hobbies and friends. He is supportive and inspiring. He is generous and kind. He is one of my heroes in this life. I admire him a great deal. Our issue is not one of commitment. He is 100% committed to our relationship.

 

For the past 4 or so years, I have brought the conversation about marriage to the table. He knows that I want to be married - that I don't feel our status as "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" is accurate. He understands that I view marriage as the creation of a family and he understands the heartache I have knowing his family will never consider me "family" until we are married. My family already refers to him as family. We do not plan to have children and I lost my mother a few years ago to cancer when I was 32. My family is decreasing quickly and I recognize this ongoing feeling of unease because the world around us refuses to acknowledge we are a family, my partner and I. Of course I shouldn't care what the world thinks of my relationship, but it is a constant reminder.

 

In the past year two of our good friends have gotten married. One being his previous partner of 10 years. Their relationship fizzled and they remained friends. It is not weird or unusual. They just realized they were meant to be friends, not lovers. But the reason I bring this up is because her marriage sparked something in me that made me feel raw and vulnerable. Maybe she left him because she knew my partner would never want to be married? Maybe she felt what I feel now. I wont talk to her about it because I don't want to invite her into the intimacy of my relationship.

 

Anyways. Our periodic talks usually have me crying and offering 10 sound reasons for our getting married. Over the years I have felt like if I just became better, prettier, skinnier, he would want to marry me. This is my own psychosis - not something he has made me feel. And during each talk, he says he just doesn't think about it. It isn't something that is ever on his mind. So our talks are generally one-sided, because he hasn't actually thought about it, even though I ask him to.

 

Last night he spoke more authentic words. He made it clear that he lives in the moment and that he changes when he feels required or pressured to live up to some ideal. I understand this. And given who he is, I beleive him. But he also said that marriage isn't something he wants. He can't explain why (again, because he wont think about it). But it was clear that a marriage between us is not likely to happen.

 

I explained to him that it sucks being in a position where I feel like he gets to call the shots. That he is so unwilling to sit with this and understand the insecurity it raises for me... That no matter how true it is that this is all him - my self esteem and sense of long term security (family) is what is on the line. It isn't a matter of marry me or I am leaving you. Its not that simple.

 

Who in their right mind leaves such a healthy, happy relationship? I know some people will point to this issue as a cause of suffering. And it is. But in the context of our entire relationship - marriage isn't what makes us so strong.

 

What hurts me is how he is willing to communicate about every and any thing under the sun. He holds me through my tears, he soothed me during my mothers illness and death. He loves my family and is completely involved. But this one topic seems to be where he wont consider my view.

 

And the bottom line is, I don't want to have to convince anyone to marry me.

 

So. I am grieving at the loss of the fantasy. The words from last night resonate through me and I feel I have to decide if I am willing to let go of my want to honor the whole relationship. Or if this will end up adding to my already fragile ego in such a negative way - our relationship begins to die.

 

I am a strong person who chooses the path of wholeness and healing. So I am not walking away from a healthy relationship just to find some jerk willing to be a husband. That is foolish. And the notion that this issue is so black and white is way too 1950's for me. This guy loves me. I am not questioning his commitment or love.

 

I need to decide how to let this lifelong fantasy fade away. I have to figure out how not to be jealous of all the people around me getting married. I have to be at peace with being a "girlfriend" until I am 95. And I have to accept that no matter how long my partner and I are together, I will never be included in his family ancestry.

 

The question is... can I do it?

 

sadly,

Dhanna

[Dhanna]

effort to delet

Edited November 22, 2009 by Dhanna
want to edit original post

[allina]

effort to delet

 

Why are you trying to delete?

 

Is there any way he will come around and for you? To fulfill your dream of being married?

 

It sounds like he treats you better and loves you more than many husbands do their legal wives. Is there any way you could be happy not being married? It seems like you have an ideal relationship, just not the legal label.

 

Remember that just because people around you are getting married doesn't mean that their love is any more real than yours. It doesn't mean that they are loved more than you. Chances are there are many things about your relationship that your married friends would be jealous of.

[OpenBook]

It sounds like you believe that getting married will solve all your problems. Trust me - it won't! It will more likely compound them.

 

And this really disturbs me --

 

my self esteem and sense of long term security (family) is what is on the line.

 

Your self-esteem should not be dependent on anyone else. Ever! Whether you're married or not.

 

And long-term security? It's an illusion. Just ask the millions of people (many of whom were close to retirement) who are now out of work, with their life savings depleted. Their "long-term security" just went up in smoke.

 

What you are looking for your partner to provide may be exactly what he is so afraid of - someone who looks to him to be responsible for their self-esteem and security. He shouldn't be responsible for that. YOU should be.

[Lauriebell82]

Why are you trying to delete?

 

Is there any way he will come around and for you? To fulfill your dream of being married?

 

It sounds like he treats you better and loves you more than many husbands do their legal wives. Is there any way you could be happy not being married? It seems like you have an ideal relationship, just not the legal label.

 

Remember that just because people around you are getting married doesn't mean that their love is any more real than yours. It doesn't mean that they are loved more than you. Chances are there are many things about your relationship that your married friends would be jealous of.

 

Yes, well put Allina.

 

On the flip side, he has told you flat out he is not interested in marriage. It might not even be you because obviously he isn't going to be going anywhere. It sounds like he still wants to be with you, he just doesn't want to be married. I know how much you want to *hope* he will come around, it just not might be so though.

 

The only thing I can tell you is that if marriage IS of great importance to you then you will need to find a way to be happy without it (if you want to be with him). Can you do that? Not an easy task. The problem is that you may begin to feel some resentment for the fact that he refuses to marry you and you will never be TRULEY happy. Now of course that's the worse case scenerio, however it's quite possible that will happen by the way you are talking.

 

IMO it's okay to want to be married, and it's okay to not want to. That's each of your rights. BUT, he doesn't have to change what he wants, why should you? Never settle for less then you deserve/want!

[bluestraps]

If you're happy I think you should keep the relationship going. I think you guys are lucky because you seem to be a stable, thoughtfull, inteligent woman. You have stayed togther ,and I assume you both have been faithfull to each otherMy girlfriend just broke up with me, because I didnt ask her to marry me after a 10 year relationship , that was to say the least difficult at times.If he truly loves you and wants to be with you He should feel lucky that youre not giving him ultimatums like "marry me or i'm gone", "Arent you afraid of loosing me" or "I want to be married because Im geting older and everyonelse is getting married but me"Maybe you should tell him that you will need to leave if he doesnt ask you to marry him. Maybe you need to be more forcefull Spook him alittle.On the other hand maybe just say nothing and he may ask you. Its 6 years , Maybe by 8 years he will ask you . Do you really want to go thru a breakup and need to go thru all the trouble of finding a new guy.Just think , you get a great guy but the one thing that is givving you trouble is that he does not want to get married.There is something stopping him that either he cant explain or something really holding him back He may just be scared to get married ,it's like a big step.But If I were him I'd ask you . Because I just lost the most important thing in my life because i waited too long

[Tizzy]

Have you asked this man why he doesn't want to get married? Has he ever been married or engaged before? What was his parents' relationship like? I'd try to find the answers to those questions, as that might give you some insight into his unwillingness to marry.

 

You say you have a happy healthy relationship but I think you are fooling yourself. You just wrote a long OP about how UNhappy you are over this marriage thing. That's not happiness. That's you asking the LS community to make you feel better about settling for less than you feel you want and deserve. Absolutely nothing happy about that. It actually sounds sad to me. Been there done that, in fact just ended a relationship myself because I refuse to settle for less than what I want and need. And you should too!

 

So what if you've been with this guy for 6 years? You want different things. You NEED different things. It doesn't matter why you want marriage, you shouldn't have to convince yourself everyday that not ever being married is okay with you. You will constantly be at odds with yourself. Who can live like that? If marriage is what you want and what will make you happy I suggest going out and finding a guy/relationship that will fulfill that need. Your man is just one out of billions on this planet. Why should that one person have so much control over your life and your destinty and most importantly, your happiness?

 

Don't settle. There's nothing fair about your boyfriend getting all of his needs met while yours are left hanging out to dry. Take a break from him. Work on your ego and self esteem. If he comes around (highly doubtful) and says he wants to get married, great! But either way, you'll be healed and whole enough to tell him you aren't settling anymore. By settling you are simply setting yourself up for misery.

[Tethys]

I've read a few of these posts where a woman wants to get married, but doesn't want to give their boyfriends an ultimatum. Is this because it makes the woman seem like she's too marriage-obsessed? Or because healthy relationships are supposed to be about communication and compromise, and not playing games? Maybe these (mostly younger?) women need to think more like men in this regard and realize at the end of the day that they can either live with marriage or they need to move on.

 

If you put it in terms of what a man wanted--if she wasn't interested in sex anymore, I would think everyone would support him saying "either we start having sex in the next couple months (or we work on why we're not), or I'm leaving". So why would it be so wrong for a woman to say the same thing?

 

OR, why not just say that getting married is important to you and that you might start keeping your eyes open for a guy interested settling down? I read somewhere that men get complacent when they come to believe there's no chance their g/f or wife would ever leave them--they no longer have to work to keep things interesting b/c he knows she isn't going anywhere. Maybe this is where your b/f is at?

 

This may be all terrible advice, so please tell me if I'm off the mark here folks. Ironically, I'm in the same boat as this poster's b/f in that I have a g/f that wants to get married. I don't have a problem getting married, I just have doubts about our relationship and making it permanent with a marriage.

[Tethys]

You say you have a happy healthy relationship but I think you are fooling yourself. You just wrote a long OP about how UNhappy you are over this marriage thing. That's not happiness. That's you asking the LS community to make you feel better about settling for less than you feel you want and deserve. Absolutely nothing happy about that. It actually sounds sad to me. Been there done that, in fact just ended a relationship myself because I refuse to settle for less than what I want and need. And you should too!

 

Tizzy - Nice post. Inspiring. I'm curious--how did you find the strength to leave your relationship? Was it difficult to leave? Or were there negatives to the relationship that made it easier to end it?

[Woggle]

He probably sees what his married friends go through and he wants no part of it. Maybe if you eventually prove to him that you will actually be commited once you get married and not be a walkaway wife he might reconsider. He needs to see that you won't cheat the minute some other guy awakens passion in you and that you won't eventually start to look at him as a brother.

[Dhanna]

I appreciate all of your insight and advice. There are two things occuring with my situation. The first and most important - I am not happy with myself. I am in a slump in my life and not providing myself the structure, friendship and love I need to move out of this slump. Amazingly enough, my partner gives me the space I need to go through my process - but never too much space. He is by my side, holding my hand and reminding me of how much he loves me. This is a fact I take for granted. I come from a long line of unhealthy relationships. After taking 4 years off and going through therapy, I was blessed to meet this man. He comes from a loving home with parents who have been happily married for 45 years. He hasn't any major truamas. I, on the other hand, come from an unstable background - though my parents remained married - my mother was abusive to my father and I (emotionally and verbally).

 

So here is this guy, with little baggage and a heart as big as the world and I can't seem to bring myself to feel good enough for him. This is the real issue.

 

The marriage thing for me is not about a party and a white dress. IN fact, I find most traditional aspects of weddings to be mysogynist and outdated. For me, it is about becoming a family. It is simply the step after "boyfriend/girlfriend" and is more appropriate for what our relationship is - a marriage with out the title. I am a ceremonial person - he knows this about me. In fact, I imagine this is part of why he loves me. It is a celebration of a healthy, happy union. Pretty simple.

 

We have had many talks about this subject. He has tried to put into words what his reservations are about marriage. The truth is, his one flaw is a fear of change or a fear of growing up. To him, being married will mean he is an adult. Nevermind that he is 41. Ironically, he is the most responsible/stable person I know. But something about marraige brings up issues of feeling old.

 

We are going to seek a couples counselor in the very near future. Hell, he didn't have any issues about seeing someone. I know so many women whose husbands are so stubborn they refuse to see a counselor. The reason we want to see someone is not to determine if this relationship is viable. We need an objective person to help us make sense of our own issues about marraige and help relate those feelings to each other.

 

I can live without being married. I would never give up the most inspired relationship of my life just because of this. But my job, first and foremost, is to establish peace in myself - grow out of this slump and be a better partner to him. I need to come to terms that he loves me and that my baggage is not in control of my worthiness.

 

When you have spent most of your life feeling inferior, it is a challenge to start seeing oneself as worthy and deserving.

 

Thanks for all your advice.

 

Dhanna

[BlackLovely]

Hey Sweetie,

This is going to sound cliche, but no man will love you the way you need/want unless you love yourself. Your boyfriend knows that you have low self esteem and that you are insecure. This is how he plays you like a puppet. Only you can stop this by standing up for what you believe in. Not an ultimatum, but a clear statement of what you want from him.

 

Before I fell in love with me, all of the men I was with treated me like garbage. When I met my fiance, I was very happy with myself. He used to try the make-up to break up nonsense, until I finally told him not to contact me until he figured out what he truly wanted. I let him know that I had no time for games and that if he didn't want to make a commitment, he needed to tell me so that I could move on. When he came begging back, I told him I needed to take a month for myself. I had to make sure he was serious, so that I didn't get hurt again by his wishy washy behavior. He has more than made up for all this; we have been engaged for a year and will be married October 2010.

 

Your man has told you he doesn't want to get married. You want to get married, so the bottom line is, you will need to leave him. It will be hard and it will hurt like hell, but you will respect yourself much more. Make plans to have enough money to live independently, find a place for yourself and then tell him you are leaving. If he tries to keep you with him, make sure you tell your guy that you love him, but YOU LOVE YOURSELF MORE. You can do this babes. You are strong. Unless you want to be an elderly girlfriend like you said, you have to leave. Blessings.

[lkjh]

I disagree with the people who are saying that you should be happy with your current status. Whether people want to admit it or not marriage makes your relationship official. Husband and wife is something sacred, bf and gf is not.

 

If he isn't willing to man up and marry you then stop treating him like your H, treat him like your bf

[Woggle]

Make him secure that he will not eventually end up with a walkaway wife and be another desserted husband and he might just change his mind. Look at the divorce and affair forums on this board to see why so many men are terrified to make that leap.

[threebyfate]

Dhanna, life is about choices. If you want something, go get it. But as with everything else, there's a price to pay for it. If you make the choice, you have to be prepared to pay the price, hence take full responsibility for your actions.

 

So now you sit, needs unmet. It's been getting worse over the years, hasn't it? Resentment builds, if issues aren't resolved and stay resolved.

 

So over the years you've eaten his response of a refusal to discuss marriage. Each time you've eaten his response, you've enabled him to maintain status quo. After all, he gets what he wants without doing anything, including discussing his real feelings about marriage. If someone refuses to discuss it, it means that what he has to say, he feels will be detrimental to him, rather than the excuse he's been using.

 

Fear of loss is one of THE worst inhibitors to hit mankind. Step back from fear and all emotions and start looking at the problem from the aspect of a decision for the long-term.

 

How will you feel when you're 48 years old? How will you feel when you're 56 years old?

 

Once you've made a decision, you have to be prepared to stand by it, with no regrets, instead looking forwards, never backwards. If you choose to stay with him, you're going to have to completely flatten and let go of your personal need. Now how to do this, I have no idea, since if it's a need v. a want, it never goes away for me.

[Dhanna]

To BlackLovely: "This is going to sound cliche, but no man will love you the way you need/want unless you love yourself." Of course! I know this - but life happens and it is very difficult for any person to retain joy or self confidence. Its an ebb and flow. "Your boyfriend knows that you have low self esteem and that you are insecure. This is how he plays you like a puppet." I am not sure if you actually read my posts. My partner doesn't "play me" like a puppet or any other object. There are no games here. He gives me space to heal as do I him, when he is down. I take issue with your wording here because you appear to assume every man is the same. and that that sameness is the objectifying of his partner in some way. Not all men play games. I don't associate with people who play games.

 

"Before I fell in love with me, all of the men I was with treated me like garbage." this is true for friendships as well. Being "in love" with oneself is great but it is different from loving oneself. Loving oneself allows us to go through what ever we need to grow. Growth is not an easy or attractive thing all of the time - but when we love ourselves, we encourage the hard work - which can lead to bouts of depression or times of self discouragement. It is a process.

 

I am happy for your joy. But no two relationships are the same. And people who don't care to get married are not all "playing games" - Some people just don't need a marriage to define them, and I respect that.

 

"Your man has told you he doesn't want to get married. You want to get married, so the bottom line is, you will need to leave him." No. You are wrong here. Leaving a healthy, happy relationship is beyond foolish. And it sounds like a game: leave him and make him miss you until he gives in. No way. The issue is not about ending a relationship because we don't agree on something. The challenge is to learn to communicate with each other so we can see each others' view. After all, isn't that what a commitment is about? Getting over oneself in order to honor the union?

 

The issue with a board like this is that it lacks context. And context is everything. What anyone writes in a moment of despair does not translate into the vast dynamism of the real relationship. I realize you are trying to offer sound advice. But, I wholeheartedly disagree with how you perceive my reality. You are viewing through your own lens. And that is okay. But, your advice doesn't fly with my real life experience. I refuse play games with my partner, all the while projecting that he is the one "playing games"

 

Thanks but...

[BlackLovely]

To BlackLovely: "This is going to sound cliche, but no man will love you the way you need/want unless you love yourself." Of course! I know this - but life happens and it is very difficult for any person to retain joy or self confidence. Its an ebb and flow. "Your boyfriend knows that you have low self esteem and that you are insecure. This is how he plays you like a puppet." I am not sure if you actually read my posts. My partner doesn't "play me" like a puppet or any other object. There are no games here. He gives me space to heal as do I him, when he is down. I take issue with your wording here because you appear to assume every man is the same. and that that sameness is the objectifying of his partner in some way. Not all men play games. I don't associate with people who play games.

 

I did read your posts, Dhanna. I have three brothers and years of experience with many men. I will admit that I think that all men are alike. How can you say there's no games here, when he refuses to marry you after so many years? It seems like he's playing a game with your time.

 

 

"Before I fell in love with me, all of the men I was with treated me like garbage." this is true for friendships as well. Being "in love" with oneself is great but it is different from loving oneself. Loving oneself allows us to go through what ever we need to grow. Growth is not an easy or attractive thing all of the time - but when we love ourselves, we encourage the hard work - which can lead to bouts of depression or times of self discouragement. It is a process.

 

I've had my bouts of depression. I don't want to argue the semantics of the same term; if I am in love with myself, doesn't that mean I love myself as well? If you feel that you need to allow your man to waste more of your time to grow, then I'm all for it.

 

I am happy for your joy. But no two relationships are the same. And people who don't care to get married are not all "playing games" - Some people just don't need a marriage to define them, and I respect that.

 

But it sounds like you need marriage to be happy, otherwise there would be no issue with your man, right? If you need marriage and he does not, how in the world are you going to be happy??

 

"Your man has told you he doesn't want to get married. You want to get married, so the bottom line is, you will need to leave him." No. You are wrong here. Leaving a healthy, happy relationship is beyond foolish. And it sounds like a game: leave him and make him miss you until he gives in. No way. The issue is not about ending a relationship because we don't agree on something. The challenge is to learn to communicate with each other so we can see each others' view. After all, isn't that what a commitment is about? Getting over oneself in order to honor the union?

 

Honoring your "union" should not be done at the expense of your own unhappiness and self esteem. Your wishes are important too, my dear. Your man is not respecting any of them. How your relationship "happy" if you're posting on boards about not getting married? I've seen too many women sacrifice their heart's desires for a man, myself included. It doesn't get you anywhere except angry and resentful. There is no game playing in asserting your needs. I don't regret cutting my man off until he figured out what he wanted. Men always want what they can't have; it's just their nature.

 

The issue with a board like this is that it lacks context. And context is everything. What anyone writes in a moment of despair does not translate into the vast dynamism of the real relationship. I realize you are trying to offer sound advice. But, I wholeheartedly disagree with how you perceive my reality. You are viewing through your own lens. And that is okay. But, your advice doesn't fly with my real life experience. I refuse play games with my partner, all the while projecting that he is the one "playing games"

 

Thanks but...

[Natsumi]

So sorry to join this thread so late. Dihanna, if you still need advice:

I think your low self-esteem is clouding the issue for you. You wrote earlier that you were unhappy about your situation and I think this is why people were trying to built you up to make you understand that you have negotiating power. This does not mean you need to threaten your man with a break-up. It does mean that you have the right and the power in your relationship to sit down with him and tell him:

 

Look, I am not happy the way things are. You may not want to get married but I do. My opinion and my desires are as important as yours. What do you propose we do?

 

Don't give up on your desires, if they are heartfelt, just because he isn't willing to budge.

 

That being said, I do think you should not leave him over this issue.

 

If his problem is getting old, then you need to seat him down and explain to him that no matter how unmarried he stays he is getting older every day and if you guys get married at least he will have a happy woman to do this with.

[Lauriebell82]

I had a friend who was with her boyfriend for 7 years. He would not propose. She used to bug him, asking him why he wasn't ready, if he ever would be ready. She agonized over it constantly. She even set deadlines (internally) to leave, but alas she never could. Finally she just accepted that he would not propose to her and went on with her life.

 

And guess what? Over Christmas he shocked her by proposing to her. He made her breakfast in bed and popped the question right then and there. She said it was amazing. She told me later that she was so glad she hung in there and didn't give up.

 

SO, I disagree that you should talk to him and communicate your feelings more. He knows where you stand on the issue..you don't have to keep telling him. He doesn't want to get married (at least not now) so you need to find a way to accept it.

 

You've said that you don't plan to leave the relationship because it would be foolish to give it up-but you want marriage right now. Unfortunately you cannot have both at this time. So you have decide whether it is worth the wait.

 

Can you live your life being "the girlfriend" or does the need to be married overpower the feelings you have for your SO?

[Hop_prophet]

I just want to say that you have a really healthy attitude about your relationship and your bf is lucky to have you. I think he will come around. Trust me he knows your feelings and pressuring him about the issue will only make it worse. I'm glad you are not listening to a lot of the posts here as they come across as very selfish and entitled. I know marriage is a big deal, but relationships are about give and take. You seem to realize that leaving just to force marriage down his throat is a pretty terrible way to go about this. He will only resent you for that later and I doubt you want him to marry you because he viewed it as a last resort.

 

So some of the other posters encourage you to ditch this guy and rush into marriage?!?! I'm sure that will work out great when you find out the new guy has 50 other problems and you can't stand him. Oh but you have the marriage and can now live happily ever after.

 

Having self esteem and expressing your needs is one thing, but threatening a break or giving ultimatums will ruin what you have spent 6 years building. This guy sounds like a catch to me and you really seem to love him. Marriage is a scary prospect so try to be supportive and give him time.

[Natsumi]

I had a friend who was with her boyfriend for 7 years. He would not propose. She used to bug him, asking him why he wasn't ready, if he ever would be ready. She agonized over it constantly. She even set deadlines (internally) to leave, but alas she never could. Finally she just accepted that he would not propose to her and went on with her life.

 

And guess what? Over Christmas he shocked her by proposing to her. He made her breakfast in bed and popped the question right then and there. She said it was amazing. She told me later that she was so glad she hung in there and didn't give up.

 

SO, I disagree that you should talk to him and communicate your feelings more. He knows where you stand on the issue..you don't have to keep telling him. He doesn't want to get married (at least not now) so you need to find a way to accept it.

 

You've said that you don't plan to leave the relationship because it would be foolish to give it up-but you want marriage right now. Unfortunately you cannot have both at this time. So you have decide whether it is worth the wait.

 

Can you live your life being "the girlfriend" or does the need to be married overpower the feelings you have for your SO?

 

Sure, you can count on a miracle to happen, he will read your thoughts and make you ever so happy by being super romantic and proposing to you in front of all your friends showing you that he loves so much more than anybody has ever loved anyone else. That could happen.

 

What could also happen is that he will not propose, because he is comfortable where he is right now. He will drive you into madness, because you will keep thinking that there is something unmarriable about you, that you are physically too unattractive or undesirable for him. It will then make you grow in resentment as you invest more and more years into a relationship with a man who you thought you knew.

 

A relationship is about compromises from both sides. If you desire a wedding then you should pursue your desire. This does not mean pushing him and threatening him. It does mean seeking a solution to what has clearly developed into a problem together.

[Lauriebell82]

A relationship is about compromises from both sides. If you desire a wedding then you should pursue your desire. This does not mean pushing him and threatening him. It does mean seeking a solution to what has clearly developed into a problem together.

 

Marriage should not be a compromise between two people. It needs to be something both parties really want, not something one person just "gives into."

 

The OP has already said she does not want to have to force him into marriage. True, she might start to resent him for his decision not to marry her, BUT he will not marry her any faster if she keeps badgering him. And YES, even "direct and honest communication" can be interrupted as pressure, especially when the guy isn't ready to get married. I've had many guys tell me this!

 

That's why I advised her to either accept that he doesn't want to get married or leave. She already said she doesn't want to leave so she needs to accept his decision and try not to resent him for it. Not an easy task, but if she really loves him and wants to stay with him it's what she will have to do.

[sally4sara]

What was marriage before the church and government got involved?

Two people moving forward in their chosen life together.

 

You sound like you ARE married in all ways other than:

a legal document

a fluffy ceremony

and his family's willingness to recognize how well the two of you compliment each other. What is THAT about? As tho, if they were to recognize you as someone important to their son as a wife would be, it would be the undoing of their own legal union? Not cool. Make sure they haven't spoken disapproval of you and he is just taking up your time till someone they do approve of comes along.

 

I do get it tho that you could have this going on and still have a good relationship. The only thing that stands out in your post is that this is a 6 year relationship. You say it is healthy and supportive......

So why is your self esteem low and your ego fragile? I'm not trying to be argumentative with this question. I'm serious. How does one end up with a low self esteem and fragile ego 6 years into a healthy supportive relationship?

[Lauriebell82]

So why is your self esteem low and your ego fragile? I'm not trying to be argumentative with this question. I'm serious. How does one end up with a low self esteem and fragile ego 6 years into a healthy supportive relationship?

 

As someone with low self esteem, I have to say that it stems from past hurt. Supportive relationships help, but improving self esteem is a very tough thing to do. It means letting go of the past and believing in yourself.

 

I think the fact that he won't marry her contributes to the OP's low self esteem. Despite his support, she has already confessed that she feels there is something unmarriable about her (whether that is true or not). That's not helping her improve her image of herself.

 

As dumb as this may sound, it feels good to have someone tell you they can't wait to marry you and be with you forever. I'm not saying that she should get married JUST to improve her self esteem, or that it will, but I think the fact that he wants to commit to her may give her the sense of self worth that she is lacking.

[Natsumi]

As dumb as this may sound, it feels good to have someone tell you they can't wait to marry you and be with you forever. I'm not saying that she should get married JUST to improve her self esteem, or that it will, but I think the fact that he wants to commit to her may give her the sense of self worth that she is lacking.

 

I agree with you here. Which is why I mentioned compromise. Yes, marriage is something they both should want to do. But I do not see why he should get his way and she should not. In other words: you have to find a solution that satisfies both sides. Not getting married does not satisfy her. Why should she be left unsatisfied to nurture his delusion of youth?

 

I am in a similar situation, and while my relationship is in many ways different than hers, I know what it feels like to think that the person you thought cared so much about you is not crazy enough about you to want to have you as their wife. I can't blame her for low self-esteem in this situation, it's only natural.