MM filed, served papers and moved out

[fooled once]

Isn't it interesting how so many OW claim it is the BS's fault the marriage had issues when the OW are not even involved in the marriage Can't image that these glorious cheating lying pigs are to blame in anyway ~ or at least 50% to blame. It is 'okay' for them to see comfort/sex/love/reassurance with someone outside the marriage, but mainly it is the mean old BS who caused them to look outside the marriage instead of the man BEING A MAN and seperating BEFORE looking outside the marriage.

[Alpha Female]

Isn't it interesting how so many OW claim it is the BS's fault the marriage had issues when the OW are not even involved in the marriage Can't image that these glorious cheating lying pigs are to blame in anyway ~ or at least 50% to blame. It is 'okay' for them to see comfort/sex/love/reassurance with someone outside the marriage, but mainly it is the mean old BS who caused them to look outside the marriage instead of the man BEING A MAN and seperating BEFORE looking outside the marriage.

 

And isn't it funny how BBS's never seem to want to think there actually is a mean old hag of a BS who has driven her H away?

 

And for the record, I blame both of them for the demise of their M. Equally. A couple joins together in good faith, and when it falls apart, it takes two to do that, too.

 

And to the comments that I'm still making this up - if that helps you all sleep better at night, then certainly believe what you like. Yes, I changed minor details here and there to protect my identity. The STBXW is pretty internet savvy, and I was trying to throw off the scent a bit in case she ended up here.

[LucreziaBorgia]

I'm not sure why he didn't simply divorce instead of cheating his way out of two marriages.

 

Seriously, there is no way in heaven or hell I'd marry this man without some serious individual counseling for him, and premarital counseling for you both, or at the very least a solid prenup (like the one Catherine Zeta Jones has that says if Michael Douglas cheats, he has to give her five million dollars cash).

[OpenBook]

Isn't it interesting how so many OW claim it is the BS's fault the marriage had issues when the OW are not even involved in the marriage Can't image that these glorious cheating lying pigs are to blame in anyway ~ or at least 50% to blame. It is 'okay' for them to see comfort/sex/love/reassurance with someone outside the marriage, but mainly it is the mean old BS who caused them to look outside the marriage instead of the man BEING A MAN and seperating BEFORE looking outside the marriage.

 

Probably for the same reasons that drive a BS to stay with her WS. BECAUSE SHE LOVES HIM. She can't view him as a "glorious cheating lying pig" - because she can't reconcile that with her boundless love for him. So she rationalizes it away, by blaming it on somebody else.

 

(I'm not talking about anyone in particular here. Just theorizing.)

[MizFit]

Isn't it interesting how so many OW claim it is the BS's fault the marriage had issues when the OW are not even involved in the marriage Can't image that these glorious cheating lying pigs are to blame in anyway ~ or at least 50% to blame. It is 'okay' for them to see comfort/sex/love/reassurance with someone outside the marriage, but mainly it is the mean old BS who caused them to look outside the marriage instead of the man BEING A MAN and seperating BEFORE looking outside the marriage.

 

Years ago I was a BS. I fully say there were things I did that caused issues in our marriage. I did the wrong things for the right reasons...he ended up having an affair. Do I think he was right-absolutely not, but he did it. I had a fairly aggressive involvement in the problems with the marriage...my xMM's W had very passive involvement in their problems. Nonetheless there were problems that she turned a blind eye to...everything else was good and he was clear about that. Sometimes a BS doesn't have to DO anything to leave gaps...sometimes they merely plod along thinking all is fine and dandy.

 

This actually brings me to something that someone said in another thread. Someone asked if it was right to fight for the love of a MM. The standard responses were you don't have to fight for love. Tosh...you fall in love...you work and fight to keep it alive. If you don't it becomes habit and routine and vulnerable.

 

My 2P anyway...

[jennie-jennie]

I don't know if "blame' is the right word to use here, but responsibility seems much better.

 

The OW is 50% of the equation. and yes, I know is may not be "popular" but I really do believe that we owe it to the other people of the world to not intentionally cause harm to anyone else. Sometimes ME does not supersede the We. Any way you slice is, and affair hurts a lot of people- even if the BS never finds out about it, it still hurts. I don't see how there is any way a person could not know that.

 

An "affair partner' is just that- an affair partner- 50% of the equation. If a person considering becoming involved in an affair is not ready to accept that there will be fallout, and deal with that fallout, then maybe they shouldn't do it.

 

Here is an analogy;- a jeweler puts a beautiful diamond ring in the window of his shop, but neglects to but in a burglar alarm or any type of security ( he trusts that people will be honest enough not to try and steal it). someone walking by sees the ring, thinks it's really beautiful, wants it, so the smash open the window and grab it and run away. they get caught, and their defense is ' I couldn't help myself, I didn't plan on stealing the ring, but i couldn't resist the temptation- besides, the jeweler must have known somebody would try to steal it, and they didn't do anything to stop them- so really, it's their fault- not mine."

 

Should the jeweler have been more cautious and careful? of course- but does that make stealing the ring okay or excuse the burglars actions? Of course not.

 

( mind you, I am not saying that adultery is a crime, just a choice and an action entered into by two equally responsible parties- if you can't live with the fallout, then don't do it)

 

That is not a valid comparison. These men voluntarily entered the EMR, they most likely heavily pursued the OW like noone else had done before. I know that was not how it was in your case, Frozen, in your case the OW went after the MM. It was a short term relationship, where the OW was not even in love with your husband if I understand it correctly. That is a huge difference to us in long term relationships with MM.

 

As OWoman phrased it, these MM might have been married, but they were available. They sure put themselves out there on the market. No need to smash any window here! The ring put itself on our finger with a note "I am yours!"

[RedDevil66]

Adultry should be a crime.........

 

Now, when I think to when my ex had an affair, I was really not a productive GF and he was dying for affection. I get where I went wrong.

When I had an affair with a married guy, he claimed his wife was not a good wife, turns out, she was awesome and he was just a low life serial cheater who had no ego and no self worth and needed many other women to confirm he was special.

 

Sometimes the relationship is the cause of the cheating and other times, it does not

 

In the case of AF's cheater, he just sounds like a total loser who jumps from one women to the next.

Imagine leaving a marriage for someone you've only known (in an unhealthy way) for only 5 months.

I can't imagine the lack of empathy this man has to take his cheater on a vacation with him the day after he tells his wife ta-ta.

 

There is no love here, only two desperate people with no self esteem

[OWoman]

Here is an analogy;- a jeweler puts a beautiful diamond ring in the window of his shop, but neglects to but in a burglar alarm or any type of security ( he trusts that people will be honest enough not to try and steal it). someone walking by sees the ring, thinks it's really beautiful, wants it, so the smash open the window and grab it and run away. they get caught, and their defense is ' I couldn't help myself, I didn't plan on stealing the ring, but i couldn't resist the temptation- besides, the jeweler must have known somebody would try to steal it, and they didn't do anything to stop them- so really, it's their fault- not mine."

 

Should the jeweler have been more cautious and careful? of course- but does that make stealing the ring okay or excuse the burglars actions? Of course not.

 

( mind you, I am not saying that adultery is a crime, just a choice and an action entered into by two equally responsible parties- if you can't live with the fallout, then don't do it)

 

Your analogy falls down in that a ring just lies there, it doesn't leap into the pocket of a passing pedestrian. Fine, if you view your H as a passive piece of property - I wouldn't be interested in a man like that, so he'd be quite safe - but most men are actually active human beings with their own ability to act, make decisions and follow a path of their choosing.

 

A more useful analogy, IMO, would be the neglectful dog owner who leaves their dog on the back of a parked truck while they go into the shop. Someone passing stops to pat the dog, the dog decides they prefer that person, and leaps off the back of the truck and goes off with the new "owner".

[RedDevil66]

A more useful analogy, IMO, would be the neglectful dog owner who leaves their dog on the back of a parked truck while they go into the shop. Someone passing stops to pat the dog, the dog decides they prefer that person, and leaps off the back of the truck and goes off with the new "owner".

 

Yes, men are neglected dogs. Well the ones who cheat are not better than dogs actually. Dogs are faithful companions with unconditional love to give

Edited December 3, 2009 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[MizFit]

I don't know if "blame' is the right word to use here, but responsibility seems much better.

 

The OW is 50% of the equation. and yes, I know is may not be "popular" but I really do believe that we owe it to the other people of the world to not intentionally cause harm to anyone else. Sometimes ME does not supersede the We. Any way you slice is, and affair hurts a lot of people- even if the BS never finds out about it, it still hurts. I don't see how there is any way a person could not know that.

 

An "affair partner' is just that- an affair partner- 50% of the equation. If a person considering becoming involved in an affair is not ready to accept that there will be fallout, and deal with that fallout, then maybe they shouldn't do it.

 

Here is an analogy;- a jeweler puts a beautiful diamond ring in the window of his shop, but neglects to but in a burglar alarm or any type of security ( he trusts that people will be honest enough not to try and steal it). someone walking by sees the ring, thinks it's really beautiful, wants it, so the smash open the window and grab it and run away. they get caught, and their defense is ' I couldn't help myself, I didn't plan on stealing the ring, but i couldn't resist the temptation- besides, the jeweler must have known somebody would try to steal it, and they didn't do anything to stop them- so really, it's their fault- not mine."

 

Should the jeweler have been more cautious and careful? of course- but does that make stealing the ring okay or excuse the burglars actions? Of course not.

 

( mind you, I am not saying that adultery is a crime, just a choice and an action entered into by two equally responsible parties- if you can't live with the fallout, then don't do it)

 

You can't steal a person, but if you're using the analogy I'll keep going with it-if there is something as valuable as your spouse being put on display and the owner/BS is so lax they allow it to go knowingly unprotected they should be aware things can happen. As I said you can't steal a person, but they can look away...if a spouse takes them for granted or neglects something (no alarm) then it's a risk. What you described is 33% ownership on the problem...the jeweler (BS), the diamond (WS), and the thief (AP)...in my eyes it's 100% the diamond (WS) because they are the one that takes the decision to enter an A.

 

I know my thoughts aren't popular, but I was a BS long before I was an OW and I never blamed the AP...she didn't cheat on me.

[OWoman]

Adultry should be a crime.........

 

It was, back in the day when marriage was considered property ownership. Then, "stealing" a spouse was considered just that. Fortunately, we've moved on from then - even if some people would rather live in the dark ages, with their spouse chained to the sink. I'd far rather be with someone, and know that they were with me, out of choice than because The State would drag someone off in leg-irons otherwise. IMO, The State has no business in my bedroom, and frankly I think marriage should be a crime.

 

That said, M is a contract, and nothing stops the BS from pursuing a civil case for breach of contract against a WS, if they feel that strongly about it.

[OWoman]

Yes, men are neglected dogs. Well the ones who cheat are not better than dogs actually. Dogs are faithful companions with unconditional love to give

 

Men who cheat, by the logic demonstrated here, are faithful companions with unconditional love to give. Yep, that computes....

[MizFit]

Adultry should be a crime.........

 

Now, when I think to when my ex had an affair, I was really not a productive GF and he was dying for affection. I get where I went wrong.

When I had an affair with a married guy, he claimed his wife was not a good wife, turns out, she was awesome and he was just a low life serial cheater who had no ego and no self worth and needed many other women to confirm he was special.

 

Sometimes the relationship is the cause of the cheating and other times, it does not

 

In the case of AF's cheater, he just sounds like a total loser who jumps from one women to the next.

Imagine leaving a marriage for someone you've only known (in an unhealthy way) for only 5 months.

I can't imagine the lack of empathy this man has to take his cheater on a vacation with him the day after he tells his wife ta-ta.

 

There is no love here, only two desperate people with no self esteem

 

So he had the courage to leave his M because it wasn't working and he's being slagged off? Yes, he should have done it before the A, but at the end of the day he had the bottle to do something about it rather than waste his and his Ws lives in a R that isn't real. Not to mention a child that would be around an unhealthy set of parents-yes I know about that because mine were!!!

[fooled once]

But it still boils down to many OW blaming the BS.

 

As many BS here tell it, they had NO idea their husband was unhappy. He was still having regular sex at home, he was still participating in the life they built. He was still the husband. After 10+ years of marriage, maybe things weren't exciting, but come on, marriage at 20 years isn't the same at 1 year. Hopefully, during that 20 years, the couple grows together. They begin to raise children, buy a house, etc.

 

And from what I am reading, the husband then gets bored or wants more excitement and decides to step out on the wife.

 

NOW, I DO know that there are bad marriages out there. I get that. The 'proper' way to get out of ANY marriage is through divorce, not through an exit affair. That is where the difference is, IMHO.

 

Or those that choose to stay the OW for years, while the husband plays house with his wife. While the wife goes along not having any idea that there is an issue. HOW can you blame the Wife? Is it easier to blame her than to look at this great prize of a guy? Or is it because he can't choose? Or because he is more interested in finances than his new love of years?

 

Why are so many OW who WANT a monogomous relationship with this man so unwilling to stand up and say "I WILL NOT BE 2nd". Why?

 

And it takes 2 people to nurture a relationship. Both people need to express their desires and wants.

[MizFit]

But it still boils down to many OW blaming the BS.

 

As many BS here tell it, they had NO idea their husband was unhappy. He was still having regular sex at home, he was still participating in the life they built. He was still the husband. After 10+ years of marriage, maybe things weren't exciting, but come on, marriage at 20 years isn't the same at 1 year. Hopefully, during that 20 years, the couple grows together. They begin to raise children, buy a house, etc.

 

And from what I am reading, the husband then gets bored or wants more excitement and decides to step out on the wife.

 

NOW, I DO know that there are bad marriages out there. I get that. The 'proper' way to get out of ANY marriage is through divorce, not through an exit affair. That is where the difference is, IMHO.

 

Or those that choose to stay the OW for years, while the husband plays house with his wife. While the wife goes along not having any idea that there is an issue. HOW can you blame the Wife? Is it easier to blame her than to look at this great prize of a guy? Or is it because he can't choose? Or because he is more interested in finances than his new love of years?

 

Why are so many OW who WANT a monogomous relationship with this man so unwilling to stand up and say "I WILL NOT BE 2nd". Why?

 

And it takes 2 people to nurture a relationship. Both people need to express their desires and wants.

 

Your last line basically describes why some marriages breakdown...I don't necessarily see OW blaming BS. I see OW saying that men aren't 'stolen' they walk...I see OW saying that sometimes people get complacent-it doesn't make the A right, but it can cause cracks and we all know that most men take the path of least resistance and a divorce would not fall into that.

 

You talk about the 'prize of a guy'...if he's that bad why would most W want them back? You can't say he's worth fighting for for 1 party, but not the other. If he's a prize for 1 he can easily be a prize for another.

[turnstone]

Your analogy falls down in that a ring just lies there, it doesn't leap into the pocket of a passing pedestrian. Fine, if you view your H as a passive piece of property - I wouldn't be interested in a man like that, so he'd be quite safe - but most men are actually active human beings with their own ability to act, make decisions and follow a path of their choosing.

 

A more useful analogy, IMO, would be the neglectful dog owner who leaves their dog on the back of a parked truck while they go into the shop. Someone passing stops to pat the dog, the dog decides they prefer that person, and leaps off the back of the truck and goes off with the new "owner".

 

You don't have to be neglectful of anyone or anything for your husband to cheat on you. If he's the sort that'll commit adultery, he'll do it regardless.

 

If we're using analogies, in future I'll have a dog that'll bite your hand off if you're stupid enough to try to pet him.

[turnstone]

Your last line basically describes why some marriages breakdown...I don't necessarily see OW blaming BS. I see OW saying that men aren't 'stolen' they walk...I see OW saying that sometimes people get complacent-it doesn't make the A right, but it can cause cracks and we all know that most men take the path of least resistance and a divorce would not fall into that.

 

You talk about the 'prize of a guy'...if he's that bad why would most W want them back? You can't say he's worth fighting for for 1 party, but not the other. If he's a prize for 1 he can easily be a prize for another.

 

They walk? Seems that the majority do the opposite. They sit nice and tight, right where they're comfortable, at home with their wife, with a little extra on the side to keep their egos massaged.

[SerenityX2]

for the record, I blame both of them for the demise of their M. Equally. A couple joins together in good faith, and when it falls apart, it takes two to do that, too. QUOTE]

 

You keep asserting this...

 

Of course I’m not an advocate for affairs. I don’t like to see people “anyone” hurt, I hold the golden rule. So you’re wrong about me anyway in being ticked that you got your man b/c I don’t want to see you happy. You’ve already admitted to stress and tears already at times and yeah I see heartbreak down the road for you but whatever, it’s your path to walk.

 

I’m not going to try to convince you that his wife is completely blameless. I do know of women that treat their SO’s/H’s like crap and that’s wrong no doubt. However I still maintain as many do, it’s still not an excuse to cheat it’s a conflict avoidant passive aggressive character flaw when someone chooses to do that when the spouse is being unreasonable. So perhaps in your situation she has been all that, regardless it’s still faulty logic to base an affair on. That’s neither here nor there with you I get that.

 

However your assertion that it always takes 2 to break a marriage is simply false. Sometimes it just takes 1 bent on destroying it, of many of those people it’s b/c they feel they’re not good enough for the spouse, or it’s simply an issue of entitlement or quite basically self destructive behavior that doesn’t fit neatly in any box. As I said *your* situation may well be different.

 

It just may serve you one day to remember that in case you find yourself on that receiving end Life likes to teach us lesson we need to learn. It really is interesting though how you no longer acknowledge his wife who was once his OW just like you 20 years ago, maybe very well had the same perspective and feeling of sitting on that perch, just to eventually get knocked off. I'd bet she would have sworn he wouldn't cheat on "her" either 20 years ago

 

And more interesting is the lack of sympathy from the other OW on here towards her now that she is a BW. Face it, your rage thread doesn’t exactly paint you as sympathetic, perhaps in your world it’s acceptable to scream obscenities over the phone when you don’t get what you want, I’d guess he better stay on your good side but you did the exact thing your accusing her of. . But on this forum of course the OW it’s warranted, if it was the BS…they’d be a monster and villainized

 

It really does seem that many OW don’t care about anything except the “win”. So I guess that’s why words such as “fight:” would be logical instead of loving and nurturing a r’ship which is what should take place.

[MizFit]

They walk? Seems that the majority do the opposite. They sit nice and tight, right where they're comfortable, at home with their wife, with a little extra on the side to keep their egos massaged.

 

 

Oh I absolutely agree with you on that...what I meant by walking was into the affair. They walk into an affair as opposed to being lured into one-I realize that is not always the case.

 

In my posts you'll see I agree that I agree that most MM stay in their marriages...for a myriad of reasons.

[jennie-jennie]

And from what I am reading, the husband then gets bored or wants more excitement and decides to step out on the wife.

 

You sure can't be reading the same books that I am reading. Or are you referring to posts on LS?

[Angel1111]

But it still boils down to many OW blaming the BS.

 

As many BS here tell it, they had NO idea their husband was unhappy.

 

I had a husband who cheated on me and things were so bad between us that I told my sister that I would not be surprised if he cheated on me. The problem was, I should've left him a few months before that happened. He was incredibly verbally abusive once we married and within a year, he cheated because things got so bad between us.

 

I know that's an extreme case, but I really don't know how anyone can fool themsevles and not know that something is wrong. I know a couple who all they do is argue and, knowing both of them, it's the wife who's pushing her husband really hard. I personally wish he'd leave her, or that she'd stop being so awful to him. He has told his mother that all he ever thinks about is leaving but he can't bear to be parted from his kids. But I'm sure if he cheated on her, she would tell everyone that she had no idea they had such problems or that he was so unhappy. Yes, I'm sure there are those cases where the man hides it so well that his wife has no idea - but I think those cases are rare. I've read where women say really dumb things like, "I just thought that I would concentrate on raising the kids for 18 to 20 yrs and then we'd get back to having a life." These women are truly delusional about marriage.

 

I don't think it's about blame. I think it's more about being in tune with one another and not ignoring problems when they're there - and, more importantly, when the problems can't be resolved, people can't fool themselves into thinking that things will just blow over.

 

A good rule of thumb always in life is that if we ignore the warning bell, it will keep ringing louder and louder until we can't ignore it any longer.

[GorillaTheater]

Have we established what's so "alpha" about this situation yet?

[Angel1111]

I'm sorry, I know that people who are involved ( or have been involved 0 in affairs may never agree with me, but I can think of no other situation where some people seem to feel that its' okay if someone gets hurt, that somehow their actions are what caused the hurt:(i.e.- "she/he was neglecting their "spouse' so they cheated- serves them right")

 

I don't think it's about that. It just happens, that's all. For 100 million different reasons. You can wish the whole world thought the way you do, that they all reacted exactly the same way as you would react in every circumstance, and that we all share the same moral code - but that's just not the case and it never will be. There are just way too many factors in marriages, our childhoods, and relationships to make everything black-and-white.

 

I've been on both sides of this fence - I've been cheated on and I've been with a MM - and sometimes we just do things because it seems 'right' at the time. We all learn lessons in our own way - and sometimes others get hurt in that process. We have to accept that there are no guarantees when we're in relationships. That's what most people want - a guarantee. But as my dad used to say, 'Wish in one hand, spit in the other, and see which one fills up the fastest.'

[donnamaybe]

Have we established what's so "alpha" about this situation yet?

 

Word, GT.

 

It would seem more in keeping with the whole "alpha" thing to have drop kicked the MM and found someone more worthy.

[RedDevil66]

Have we established what's so "alpha" about this situation yet?

 

I was going to ask this in her "aggressive hate" thread, but thought it would just fly over heads :-)