Wife and I are having problems

[Citizen Erased]

Forgive me if I am out of line.

 

It just amazes me that Woggle has been here for about as long as me and he still whistles the same tune. Talk about beating a dead horse into the ground. Are you just doing this for attention Woggle?

I'm going to go out on a limb and vote for yes.

[quankanne]

my theory: That he cannot allow himself to think otherwise, else he'd have to admit he was wrong about everything. It's a lot easier to stay mired in our narrow beliefs than it is to open ourselves up to the possibility of something else.

 

we're all guilty of it to some degree, but I really feel for his wife having to be his whipping boy, and all she's guilty of is loving and being loyal to HIM. Go figure

[Woggle]

I have calmed down a bit now but this whole incident happened after I just got home from work and I had to listen to a bunch of women high fiving each other about cheating. When my neighbor asked me to help him hook up his stuff I looked at it as the chance to calm down and get out of my woman hating mood before I spend the night with my wife. While over there we did not even mention my marriage and when I came home my wife starts laying into me about associating with him and I was not in the mood.

 

This night she tells me that this guy on two occasions has actually went up to her and insulted her on two occasions claiming that she will just betray me like every other woman. I did not know about this and now I am firmly in her camp. It's one thing to blow hot air in a conversation she just happend to overhear but to insult her to her face is crossing a line I cannot forgive. I wish she would just told me this from the start though because it puts it all in perspective. As of now he is cut off. Why couldn't she have just said what he said from the start?

 

I really am starting to think that I have some post tramatic stress disorder from a lot of the abuse I have dealt with. When I hear stuff like I hear at work it triggers a response in me very similiar to a Vietnam vet when they hear a car backfiring or something similar. It feels like the entire female gender is plotting against me and I need to be this misogynstic jerk just to protrct myself. It really does seem sometimes that all or most women agree with and condone this kind of behavior as some sort of feminist revenge on the male gender. In my mind I am just defending myself against misandry instead of being a misogynist. Sometimes it gets so bad I can't even go into a female cashier's line in the grocery store without thinking she is giving me dirty looks.

[freestyle]

Hey Woggle..........

 

Your story is actually somewhat similiar to mine..........

 

My bf has a friend who has insulted me to my face (when he was out of earshot, of course:rolleyes:) on a couple of occasions.

 

Much like your wife, I didn't tell him about it right away.We'd only been together for a year, and this was a friend of over a decade. Part of me was afrid that he wouldn't believe me, knowing that I was up against a long-term friendship.

 

Another part of me saw those insults as little more than an underhanded

attempt to drive a wedge between us, and undermine our R. My gut instinct told me not to say anything to my bf until I'd thought it through.

Once I did, I saw through the machinations, and manipulations.

 

Much like the 'friend' in your story, my bf's friend had also just broken up

from a long-term R............and didn't want to be miserable all alone, and wanted a party buddy at beck-and-call.

 

So I held it in for a couple of months, and simply observed.......Waited to see just how much influence this 'friend' had over my bf. And I damn near got an ulcer from the stress. It was living hell, having the knowledge that

my bf was hanging out with a very two-faced person, who would be nice to me in front of my bf, then toxic as soon as his back was turned.

 

I'm hoping that hearing this will give you some insight into what it's been like for your wife. My guess is that it's been pure hell for her, too. For him to accuse her to her face---when she's done nothing wrong. And obviously, he waited until you were out of earshot to spew his venom at her. He went behind your back, tried to mess up your good thing.................

 

...........and hung out with you afterwards like nothing had ever happened.

 

While your wife stood on the sidelines, her stomach turning, feeling helpless to do or say anything , for fear of being labeled as controlling.

Jealous. Insecure. Please try to see through her eyes Woggle, if you can. If only for a moment. This has put her through the wringer.So if she 's upset about this for a long time.............try to understand what it's been like for her.

[whichwayisup]

I have calmed down a bit now but this whole incident happened after I just got home from work and I had to listen to a bunch of women high fiving each other about cheating. When my neighbor asked me to help him hook up his stuff I looked at it as the chance to calm down and get out of my woman hating mood before I spend the night with my wife. While over there we did not even mention my marriage and when I came home my wife starts laying into me about associating with him and I was not in the mood.

She couldn't tell you because chance are, you weren't willing to listen to her.

 

Next time you're in a woman hating mood, SPEND time with your wife because she isn't 'all women'. She's your wife..A good woman.

 

This night she tells me that this guy on two occasions has actually went up to her and insulted her on two occasions claiming that she will just betray me like every other woman. I did not know about this and now I am firmly in her camp. It's one thing to blow hot air in a conversation she just happend to overhear but to insult her to her face is crossing a line I cannot forgive. I wish she would just told me this from the start though because it puts it all in perspective. As of now he is cut off. Why couldn't she have just said what he said from the start?

 

Again, because you probably were not in a state of mind to actually 'hear' her and she may have thought you wouldn't have believed her, maybe even accuse her of exaggerating or lying to put a wedge between you and your friend. LOOK at it from her point of view.. Also, she probably knows when to pick her battles with you, depending on your mood.

 

I really am starting to think that I have some post tramatic stress disorder from a lot of the abuse I have dealt with.

 

Do you see now that you DO need therapy? This stuff isn't going to go away on it's own..A trained therapist can and will teach you techniques on how to handle this stuff better.

 

When I hear stuff like I hear at work it triggers a response in me very similiar to a Vietnam vet when they hear a car backfiring or something similar. It feels like the entire female gender is plotting against me and I need to be this misogynstic jerk just to protrct myself. It really does seem sometimes that all or most women agree with and condone this kind of behavior as some sort of feminist revenge on the male gender. In my mind I am just defending myself against misandry instead of being a misogynist. Sometimes it gets so bad I can't even go into a female cashier's line in the grocery store without thinking she is giving me dirty looks.

 

But you know this is just your mind going into overdrive.. Those types of thoughts are very powerful and has made you have so many doubts, messing you up. Please reconsider counselling. You were doing so well with your T before you decided not to go back.

 

As of now he is cut off.

 

Tell him why you're ending the friendship. He has to understand WHY his behaviour towards your wife (and how it affects you too) is so wrong.

 

I'm glad you finally see him for who he is, and that you've chosen your wife.

[Stockalone]

I read your latest reply, but I thought I might start with something else and also address things you said before.

 

I am afraid that your latest "breakdown" is not going to be the last one. Not unless you can deal with what causes them.

 

As others have mentioned, you have these periodical rantings. I'll try to use an example to explain it better.

 

It's like you have build a dam to contain all that crap you believe to see in all the women out there in the world. So you build that dam as a way to deal with that as well as your own past (and very bad) experiences.

 

There isn't really anything wrong with doing that. To believe that women never go wrong or some women actually do want to teach men a lesson would be foolish. But you need to keep things in perspective.

 

You've build yourself your very own Hoover Dam to contain all the crap women did to you and what you perceive all women to do to all men as a gender.

 

The problem, IMO, is that you have forgotten to install floodgates and you don't even monitor the water level or the water coming in.

 

For your wife's sake and your own, you need to try to figure out the best way to stop the dam from bursting.

 

It looks like your solution is to wait for the dam to burst, knowing fully well that this is going to happen sooner or later. And then you go on and on about how women do crappy things.

 

After that happens you start to reinforce the walls. Make them stronger and build them even higher. Then you see the same things happening again (women who treat men badly) and the water is filling the dam just like it did the previous dam. There are still no floodgates and we all know what is going to happen.

 

That dam will burst too eventually.

 

All the while, your wife is the one living in the shadow of that dam. When she asks you if you need some help, you tell her that you've got it under control. And not only that, you ask yourself why she doesn't just trust you to handle it.

 

Every time that dam of yours breaks, she is the one who has to face the ensuing flood and deal with the disaster.

 

How long or how often do you think a sane person can be expected to take that?

 

I know it isn't easy for you. I understand that, I really do. And I am not claiming to have solutions or even that I am capable to getting things right in my own life. I can be very stubborn too and not look left or right when I think what I'm doing is the right thing. It's just something you really should think about.

 

How much of what you are afraid of is really a credible threat? What is your wife doing to make you doubt her?

 

And how much of it is your own fears, how much of it is hurt pride?

 

 

My issues is that we were doing fine until I got back from his place and she starts getting on my case about hanging out with him. The way I put it to her was harsh and maybe I should apologize but I wish she would trust me.

 

I already tried to address the problems with that. Maybe your wife just wants to help or at least know how you handle it. Have you ever asked your wife for help with those things?

 

If not, why?

 

Didn't you ask her because you genuinely feel you can handle it yourself?

 

Or maybe because you think a man should be able to handle it himself?

 

Or are there different reasons?

 

 

As for the age I must admit that sometimes I do want a younger woman my age that I can settle down and have a family with. That is what my ex and I were planning on until she discovered drugs and infidelity. I love my wife and the age thing never bothered me until recently when I started wanting to have a family.

 

That is something you need to be sure about. Did you have a change of heart regarding kids or is it something that you just use as an excuse to justify why your marriage isn't going to make it?

 

 

I will also say that most of my friends now are players since most married men I know are boring and neutered wimps and I envy them. To me they have the ideal life for a man. It is one of freedom and they are never crying because some woman broke their heart. They very much know what the score is with modern women but they are having a ball anyway.

 

When I am out with them and they are picking up women I often wish I can join them and then I remember I have a wife at home. Some of these women look so damn good but they are off limits to me. It has been so long since I have had a one night stand and I miss it.

 

Johan already said it, and I agree. You would have become a player long ago if that is what you wanted.

 

It's possible you truly envy those men, but then you really shouldn't be in a relationship. In that case, you'd be the one responsible for the end of your marriage. And there is no way to shift the blame on your wife.

 

Besides, if you truly want a family of your own. A functioning, loving family (something you didn't have as a kid), a player lifestyle will never be able to give you that. I think in that case, being a player is something so empty, I'd kill your soul.

 

 

No she is not breaking my heart but it is only a matter of time. Everything I see around me just points to the fact that when it comes down it it is damn near impossible to have a truly happy marriage that lasts with a woman. When aI am work I hear my coworkers talk cheating and their husbands and boyfriendsa while high fiving each other and after a day of that I just can't go home and be loving towards my wife. She doesn't understand that this is what makes me doubt my marriage and not my friend.

 

I am curious now. Do you ever confront that women at work. Not calling them names, just disagreeing with them. Or do you say nothing, yet get angry and then make your wife pay for it?

 

I actually can understand why that bothers you more than your friend venting. You give your friend the benefit of the doubt, but can't do that with women.

 

 

They are not excuses. The reason I want a player lifestyle is piece of mind. I won't walk around all day wondering if I am going to come homt ot the I love you but I am not in love with you speech.

 

Do you really think that is peace of mind?

 

If you truly want to be a player, it will be a great life. But if you really are looking for love, I don't think that life would be giving you peace of mind.

 

It's just the easiest way to not get hurt. That isn't the same as peace of mind. Being alone (getting laid or not) will just be as miserable.

 

 

I honestly don't feel like I need therapy. My way is happier for a man since I will never be blindsided by a walkaway wife. Also why I get the feeling that if I were a woman I would be getting a bunch of you go girl responses in this thread and everybody would be on the side of my friend?

 

I don't think you need therapy either. Therapy is only good if you accept the help and want someone to help you.

 

That being said. From what you post on LS, you can't do it on your own. The best help you can get, you already have. I mean your wife.

 

To regain trust in women, you don't need a therapist telling you that not all women are evil. You need a woman who is willing to trust you despite the fact that you don't fully trust her. You need someone to show you that all women aren't the way you think they are. And your wife is doing exactly that.

 

That's as good as it gets for you, or any other of us men who have trust and abandonment issues. You can accept that help or not. That is your choice. But if you honestly hope to deal with your issues, it's now or never.

 

You do understand that, right?

 

And you also understand that she is being patient with you? You can't possible take it for granted that she puts up with all that ranting about how evil women are. Regardless if you don't mean to direct it at her.

 

 

I wish she would just told me this from the start though because it puts it all in perspective. As of now he is cut off. Why couldn't she have just said what he said from the start?

 

Ask your wife. I am serious, it could open your eyes.

 

 

I really am starting to think that I have some post tramatic stress disorder from a lot of the abuse I have dealt with. When I hear stuff like I hear at work it triggers a response in me very similiar to a Vietnam vet when they hear a car backfiring or something similar. It feels like the entire female gender is plotting against me and I need to be this misogynstic jerk just to protrct myself. It really does seem sometimes that all or most women agree with and condone this kind of behavior as some sort of feminist revenge on the male gender. In my mind I am just defending myself against misandry instead of being a misogynist. Sometimes it gets so bad I can't even go into a female cashier's line in the grocery store without thinking she is giving me dirty looks.

 

You might want to rethink the "I don't need therapy" approach. I still don't think you need it, but it could help you. It's worth thinking about. But you absolutely need to talk to your wife about this. At least ask her for her opinion. She is willing to help you. All you've got to do is ask for her help.

[Woggle]

I see why she might have been afraid to tell me but if she did that from the start it could have saved us a whole lot of drama. Of course he crossed a line and now he is cut off but I did not know about that until last night. I thought she was flipping over a conversation she was never meant to hear and that is why I took as her trying to control me.

 

I have a question for the happily married women here. If you had to work with two who bragged everyday about they used and abused women and high fived each other about it would you be able to then go home to your husbands and be loving and cuddly? No matter how great your husbands wouldn't you feel like biting the head off the first man you saw?

[whichwayisup]

I see why she might have been afraid to tell me but if she did that from the start it could have saved us a whole lot of drama. Of course he crossed a line and now he is cut off but I did not know about that until last night. I thought she was flipping over a conversation she was never meant to hear and that is why I took as her trying to control me.

 

I have a question for the happily married women here. If you had to work with two who bragged everyday about they used and abused women and high fived each other about it would you be able to then go home to your husbands and be loving and cuddly? No matter how great your husbands wouldn't you feel like biting the head off the first man you saw?

 

It would make me appreciate even more what I have at home.

 

You have to remember, not all react the same way as you..People can tune sheeyot like that out, I know I wouldn't stick around and listen to such crap around me.

 

You need to have more faith and trust in your wife. And, not over react, make something bigger than it really is.

[hopeful1980]

I see why she might have been afraid to tell me but if she did that from the start it could have saved us a whole lot of drama. Of course he crossed a line and now he is cut off but I did not know about that until last night. I thought she was flipping over a conversation she was never meant to hear and that is why I took as her trying to control me.

 

I have a question for the happily married women here. If you had to work with two who bragged everyday about they used and abused women and high fived each other about it would you be able to then go home to your husbands and be loving and cuddly? No matter how great your husbands wouldn't you feel like biting the head off the first man you saw?

 

I'd honestly feel even more grateful for my great husband and sorry for the guys at work wives. I know there are disgusting men out there, but I know I got one of the good ones. What other men do doesn't have any bearing on how I feel about my husband. Why should it? He's his own man.

[Island Girl]

I have a question for the happily married women here. If you had to work with two who bragged everyday about they used and abused women and high fived each other about it would you be able to then go home to your husbands and be loving and cuddly? No matter how great your husbands wouldn't you feel like biting the head off the first man you saw?

 

You don't think much of us do you? You seem to think we don't have our own minds.

 

Apparently you believe women are very easily influenced by each other. Our minds are like small child's beds (very small and easily made up).

 

I wonder where on Earth you get this idea. You have certainly seen us have differing opinions here on LS and the parties not swayed to believe as the other.

 

To you we have a pack mentality. Well then I should ask you - why would the negative side win out? Why would it not be that if I worked with those women who are negative toward men - myself being positive - why would I not influence them into being positive?

Why in your head is it that the negative would prevail??

 

Honestly Woggs there is just soooooooo much wrong with the way you categorize women. I know women who have that negative outlook you describe. I know that is THEIR opinion - it certainly isn't MINE nor would it ever be.

I think they are ridiculous for lumping men together and hating the way they do.

Every time they speak about it I can find fault with the generalizations and lack of facts.

 

DO YOU believe just as every other man on the planet? If you worked with a man who genuinely loved and trusted women in his life would you go home being more appreciative and loving toward your wife?

I think NOT. I think you would be skeptical and think the guy is an imbecile and just hasn't clued in to the "truth" as you have.

 

You make up your own mind. He would not influence you.

 

In your case it is sad because you are sooooo judgmental and negative about us. You are soooo quick to remove the benefit of the doubt even with your own wife and there are many out there who carry a more balanced view of not only women but people in general. And YOU are not influenced by these people.

 

BUT - you ARE influenced quite readily by those who are like minded. They solidify you views. Men like the douche you are no longer friends with (told you he was a douche bag) simply MUST be right. And NOTHING is wrong with THEM. It isn't THEIR issues - it is WOMEN.

As you now see that is NOT the case. Many times these guys who bash women HAVE no boundaries and no sense of respect. If THEY are not respectful to women and have major issues like that what is it that you think they see? And what is it that you think women (who have self respect and integrity) see when they look as such jerks? YES - we see them for who they are and they will generally get what they give.

 

UGH Woggs - you are in an unending cycle with your views. You only see what confirms your negative view of women.

 

MOST people - men and women alike - make up their own minds about people as INDIVIDUALS having learned early on that there is no room for generalizations in life and it is a ridiculous unhappy way to view the world.

[threebyfate]

Woggle doesn't trust himself, therefore, cannot trust anyone else.

 

The issues he projects onto his wife, are his own issues.

[Island Girl]

Woggle doesn't trust himself, therefore, cannot trust anyone else.

 

The issues he projects onto his wife, are his own issues.

 

Yes TBF. *sigh* That is the truth.

 

Well - save the men out there that share his views. He trusts them and therefore the only trust put out there is misplaced.

[threebyfate]

Yes TBF. *sigh* That is the truth.

 

Well - save the men out there that share his views. He trusts them and therefore the only trust put out there is misplaced.

That's why he can't trust his wife, since he's easily swayed by his negative friends. So he judges her, through his own lens.

[Pyro]

That's why he can't trust his wife, since he's easily swayed by his negative friends. So he judges her, through his own lens.

 

The sad part is that if the day comes where she loses her patience with him and wants out of the marriage, he will still find a way to blame her for it.

[threebyfate]

The sad part is that if the day comes where she loses her patience with him and wants out of the marriage, he will still find a way to blame her for it.

Yes because he has to. She has to fit the profile of the walkaway wife or his entire perspective of life, what he's lived with all his life, what he's believed all his life, will all be untrue.

[Ariadne]

it puts it all in perspective. As of now he is cut off.

Why couldn't she have just said what he said from the start?

 

Wow, first he was going to divorce the wife and now the friend is cut off.

 

What a mess this guy.

 

What you believe you create Woggle. You have all those beliefs, and what happens is that they get bigger as you get worked up.

 

Now you are to the point of being paranoid and anything she says triggers it.

[Pyro]

Yes because he has to. She has to fit the profile of the walkaway wife or his entire perspective of life, what he's lived with all his life, what he's believed all his life, will all be untrue.

 

and he doesn't seem like the type to admit when he is wrong about something.

[Ariadne]

My way is happier for a man since I will never be blindsided by a walkaway wife.

 

And this is the fantasy and when you get a break.

[threebyfate]

and he doesn't seem like the type to admit when he is wrong about something.

While I don't support his skewed view on life and have been pretty vocal about it, we have to consider how difficult it is for someone to give up their lifelong beliefs. Imagine having to self-actualize to the point where you have to acknowledge that your entire life has been a lie. Not easy to give up beliefs that also self-protect.

 

Deep inside, Woggle in some ways, is still emotionally a child. His world is black and white, where men always wear white. Maybe one day he might mature enough to know that most people, regardless of gender, wear varying shades of grey. The trick is to retain people who wear lighter shades of grey and eject those who solely bring negativity to your life.

[Pyro]

While I don't support his skewed view on life and have been pretty vocal about it, we have to consider how difficult it is for someone to give up their lifelong beliefs. Imagine having to self-actualize to the point where you have to acknowledge that your entire life has been a lie. Not easy to give up beliefs that also self-protect.

 

Deep inside, Woggle in some ways, is still emotionally a child. His world is black and white, where men always wear white. Maybe one day he might mature enough to know that most people, regardless of gender, wear varying shades of grey. The trick is to retain people who wear lighter shades of grey and eject those who solely bring negativity to your life.

 

You do make a good point TBF.

 

He really should take the time to read some posts on here from other people relating to him. I did that and it has helped me greatly and if it can work on me then it can work on anyone.

[Island Girl]

His world is black and white, where men always wear white. Maybe one day he might mature enough to know that most people, regardless of gender, wear varying shades of grey. The trick is to retain people who wear lighter shades of grey and eject those who solely bring negativity to your life.

 

Exactly what I was saying to him.

 

Both men and women can hold the same negatives as well as the same positives.

 

There was a thread Woggs started not too long ago regarding softening his view of women and not generalizing as much.

 

I wonder what happened to that.

[sally4sara]

I willing to make a large bet that his high fiveing, man hating co-workers are VERY AWARE how Woggle perceives them and ham it up X10 just to watch him get in a twist.

 

It is what I would do if I had to work day in and day out with someone so obviously hateful towards my gender. If only to not take it to heart after a while.

 

If he can't even treat his wife decent over the words of others, I'm sure he cannot manage to keep his distaste from being obvious either. It runs him rather than him running it.

 

Enslaved.

[quankanne]

If you had to work with two who bragged everyday about they used and abused women and high fived each other about it would you be able to then go home to your husbands and be loving and cuddly? No matter how great your husbands wouldn't you feel like biting the head off the first man you saw?

 

if I had to work with *anyone* like that, I'd share it with my husband, and tell him how disgusting I found that person's behavior – man OR woman – because that goes against my personal mores. And because I know he feels the same way about that kind of crap – he doesn't agree with the idea that someone is allowed to behave badly just because they're able.

 

woggle, you are gonna have to stop asking us what we think, because now you're putting the burden on US to be your conscience. You need to learn how to effectively dialogue with your wife, so it can sink in just why she stays with you even though you sometimes can be impossible to be with based on some of the wild crap that comes out of your mouth. Not saying this to be hurtful, my husband was like that to a large degree until we went for a marriage enrichment session and he finally realized that I'm not like the other two wives of his ... that my ideal of marriage is much more traditional and is based on respect and loyalty. I'm thinking this is something you need to see for yourself before you can fully trust the relationship you're in.

 

otherwise you're headed toward implosion and she's gonna either be sucked into the devastation because she thinks it proves her love, or she's going to break her heart by deciding that no matter how much she loves you, you've got serious demons to exorcise, and she's not qualified to do that for you.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

woggle, you are gonna have to stop asking us what we think, because now you're putting the burden on US to be your conscience.

 

A-men! Woggle, my H only grew up when I quit being his conscience. Oh, I also outed his douchebaggery to everyone he knew, and he couldn't live anymore in his hand-made facade, omg, the man actually had to OWN HIS CHOICES. Which is what I think you would benefit from--owning your choices.

 

You can either do it on your own, or have it handed to you by a woman who actually loves you enough to kick your ass up the growth chart.

 

Your choice.

 

You own it.

[Woggle]

I willing to make a large bet that his high fiveing, man hating co-workers are VERY AWARE how Woggle perceives them and ham it up X10 just to watch him get in a twist.

 

It is what I would do if I had to work day in and day out with someone so obviously hateful towards my gender. If only to not take it to heart after a while.

 

If he can't even treat his wife decent over the words of others, I'm sure he cannot manage to keep his distaste from being obvious either. It runs him rather than him running it.

 

Enslaved.

 

This is not true. It is two women and even the other women in the office can't stand them. There is one woman I get along with very well that calls them the skank twins. In fact on a few occasions one of them has even tried to get me into bed. Believe me when I say I do a very good job of keeping my issues hidden from people.