Wife and I are having problems

[Island Girl]

I am going to stop being ready to strike at a 2nds notice when a woman slights me.

 

Well that will eliminate a third of the time.

 

Why don't you eliminate the times when a woman does nothing to you -- that'll be the OTHER third of the time.

 

And then also when a woman is NICE to you like that woman who just said hello. No asking anything from you -- just here were are two people who happen to meet eyes - and we go our separate ways. An acknowledgment and that was all.

That'll take care of the other third of the time Woggle.

[sally4sara]

The problem is that looking back at what I've observed through my life so far (i.e. not just my personal experiences with women), he's right about many things. My best friend's gf made a pass at me, another friend's gf is making him miserable without understanding for 1 second that she will *never* find a boyfriend so devoted and understanding and emphatetic as he is, my own ex gave me the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech, etc. NONE of the guys in my circle of friends have treated their women badly, ever, yet approximately half have relationship problems of various degree (ranging from disrespect, to cheating, to emotional abuse).

 

I consider myself to be in a very good relationship right now and I will take the leap of faith and get married, but you can't just tell him to sweep and ignore the evidence all around us that it is, indeed, a huge leap of faith. You can't just sweep it under the carpet by thinking good thoughts. They say that "Love is the illusion that one woman is different from all others" :laugh:.

 

My point being that while excessively focusing on the negative stuff is not helpful, exageratting the positive stuff doesn't help that much either .

 

I also carry a huge load of negativity towards women, but the way I process it in my relationship is by simply assuming the best, but not hesitating to put my foot down instantly if it actually turns out to be the worst. So, it can be done:).

 

I'm starting to think the issues some men keep facing in relationships; where they fail and fail and fail, is because they, perhaps not purposefully or even with awareness, keep thinking of women as possessions. After a while, it leads to her feeling like a puppet and unhappy. It is not just men who handle emotions unhealthy. Some women DO end up doing something stupid to show they are unhappy, like the things he listed. And the clueless guy? He is left wonder WTF did he did wrong.

 

Those women never belonged to your friends. The ability to not think like that goes a long way to making someone feel loved and respected. I think the possessive subtleties are just automatic for some people. It would be interesting to see a study of the success rate of relationships where one partner was possessive of the other regardless of gender. Its not like the men of the LS scat pack would tolerate it well........

 

If it is as common as some suggest for relationships to go sour and the man just not know what happened, what about a thread just for those guys still in the dating world who feel similar to Wogs or Sam. It feels like much of their attitudes remain hidden from them yet cyclic. They could come back and see if the pattern was also present in their thoughts and words before the problems arise. Maybe then, they could learn from themselves since they mistrust many on here?

[Woggle]

I never treated a woman like a possession though. If anything I felt like I was one who was owned.

 

I gave up all my friends who stuck by me through the worst of times yet when I took issue with her manhating friends she told me I was controlling.

 

I was afraid to even have one beer or glass of wine in front of her because she would call me a drunk but it was a big problem when I took issue with her hard drug usage.

 

She felt she had no identity because she didn't have a job yet when I would try to get her one she accused me of being a bad provider.

 

From what other men tell me there are plenty of other marriages like this where the man pretty much can't do anything right. This is when men tend to shut down emotionally and simply stop trying anymore.

 

I was thinking last night and I realize that a good reason why I should trust my wife is that when i replay them in my head I realize she had a legitimate reason for every time she took issue with my actions. She gets along very well with those same friends my ex made me drop and she had a very good reason to not like our neighbor. Deep down I know I should commit to building a good marriage with her but I am sure I am not the only person to act like this in their 2nd marriage after having a horrible first one.

[JamesM]

Deep down I know I should commit to building a good marriage with her but I am sure I am not the only person to act like this in their 2nd marriage after having a horrible first one.

 

No, you are not.

 

In fact, about 60% of second marriages end, and that is because of the many issues from the previous marriage that were never resolved.

 

Choice....be happy or be a statistic.

[sumdude]

Deep down I know I should commit to building a good marriage with her but I am sure I am not the only person to act like this in their 2nd marriage after having a horrible first one.

 

I've been following this whole thread.. I've been through the divorce. The lies, betrayal and sudden disappearance of my ex wife. The ILYBNILWY speech. Not stuff quite as harsh as you Wogs but I've been there. It's been three years since she moved out without warning. She was the sort with personality disorder and was a compulsive liar. I was too forgiving and tried so hard ... only to get the cold ice wall of rage and an affair.

 

For that first year especially I looked at all women in a whole new light. I looked at my friends wives and wondered what they might be doing behind their husbands backs. Which of my buddies would be next? A few of us have been through it.

 

Over time I've been trying to work through all the distrust and anger.

 

Since then I've only had a couple flings and one short relationship.

 

I still catch myself meeting a woman, considering a relationship and then imagining the same scenario again.... and consciously or subconsciously stop myself from getting involved.

 

So I get where you are though you're case is a bit more extreme.

 

I know if I don't keep working past the inability to trust and open up again I'll never have a truly successful relationship.

 

Seeing you really trying to find a way helps and I'm glad to see it. Keep it up. You're not perfect, your wife isn't perfect but you are trying. As long as you keep trying and fight your instinct to avoid potential pain you'll be OK. Because that's what it all is. We go towards pleasure and away from pain. Even if the pain is just something that could possibly happen yet hasn't. No risk no reward, love is risk and a leap of faith.

[allina]

Good question. Why do you try to help when I spew so much venom towards women? I am being serious because I know I would have nothing but hate towards a female version of me and yes I know that is a complete double standard.

 

I used to try to help because I genuinely cared and wished you the best. I admired you for everything you accomplished and all the sh*t you've had to overcome. I saw you as a good person who just needed to vent and be angry sometimes.

 

But each time I reached out with kindness you insulted me and my relationship. Then, when you said that most women are happy when their husbands die my attitude about you changed. That comment made me remember my grandfather's death 15 years ago and the sorrow and devastation with which my grandmother misses him to this day

[Woggle]

I used to try to help because I genuinely cared and wished you the best. I admired you for everything you accomplished and all the sh*t you've had to overcome. I saw you as a good person who just needed to vent and be angry sometimes.

 

But each time I reached out with kindness you insulted me and my relationship. Then, when you said that most women are happy when their husbands die my attitude about you changed. That comment made me remember my grandfather's death 15 years ago and the sorrow and devastation with which my grandmother misses him to this day

 

Like I said to WWIU I was not insulting you or your family personally. If you or your grandmother don't feel that way then good to them but this is a very commonly held attitude by women.

[Trimmer]

Like I said to WWIU I was not insulting you or your family personally. If you or your grandmother don't feel that way then good to them but this is a very commonly held attitude by women.

But don't you see that if you generalize your attitudes about individual experiences to the broader group of "women", then "women" are going to be offended and insulted?

[Woggle]

But don't you see that if you generalize your attitudes about individual experiences to the broader group of "women", then "women" are going to be offended and insulted?

 

I have said since I started posting that if a woman is one of the exceptions she should not be offended. I said that 95% of women are utterly heartless when it comes to men. If Allina is in the 5% that are not which it seems she is then she should not be offended.

[dazzle22]

Here's the thing Woggle. You are stuck in very black and white thinking and very little in life is like that. It is only like that when you are a CHILD. Children are not capable of dealing with ambiguity, and exceptions to the rule. They have difficulty seeing the world from any other perspective than an EGOCENTRIC ONE. The world revolves around them, and their problems. They also have difficulty seeing the other side once they have made up their minds on something... They see things around them being said by immature, insensitive people, and they PERSONALIZE it, that it is about them.

 

For the life of me I don't see why these two loser women at work get to you so much! If I would hear that I would consider the source and not give it any more energy. Could it be that they remind you of your MOTHER??

 

She sounds like she has slashed you with some cruel verbal lashings when you were young and I wonder if that is where all this hurt and pain comes from originally...

 

Because you are like every TOUGH guy I have ever know. Underneath is a very sensitive guy who has been terribly hurt and is afraid of being hurt again. I am a doctor and I see people behind closed doors, and I have seen tough gang members with large scars from stabbings, and the tatooed tear drops on their cheeks that indicate number of "kills", sobbing in my office like a baby, having nervous breakdowns... Verrry illuminating.

 

You can never become a mature adult or have a happy life if you are living your entire life in REACTION to PAIN. You have to live intentionally out of your own center, not in reaction to any and all perceived slights from outside yourself.

 

It's like this. Ever seen a cute dog that was sweet and kind, then was treated terribly by a dirt bag owner? Now, whenever they see someone coming, even kind people, holding out a hand to help, they snarl and bite and run....because ALL HUMANS ARE BAD.... Do you see the analogy?...

[Woggle]

Because these two women at work to me represent how most women really feel about men. Deep down I bet most women on this board get an evil smirk when they read a thread about a man getting cheated on or read about a man in pain. They probably get some joy out of it.

[dazzle22]

Again, like I said, the childish thinking, and the whipped dog who sees evil people everywhere. No, it actually makes me very sad to see that so many people can take soo much effort to help you, but it is all for naught.

[Trimmer]

Because these two women at work to me represent how most women really feel about men. Deep down I bet most women on this board get an evil smirk when they read a thread about a man getting cheated on or read about a man in pain. They probably get some joy out of it.

No, you're wrong.

 

Best of luck in your marriage, and in your life.

[whichwayisup]

Because these two women at work to me represent how most women really feel about men.

 

It's a shame that you're going to let those two (idiot/loser) women influence you so much. It's too bad you weren't blessed with two wonderful women with good humour and good hearts.. Maybe if you were, you'd see that SO MANY women have those qualities and have much respect for not only men, but everyone in general.

 

Hey, I worked with a guy who was a complete and utter A-HOLE. He treated me, and other women in our department like crap. Had no respect for women because he's sexest, a pig and thinks women are only good for two things. Making babies and being a housewife. He'd make sure we all knew that on a daily basis. Sure, it pissed me off hearing his crap, but I knew and still know there are MILLIONS of men out there who don't share his petty and stupid view.

[hopeful1980]

Because these two women at work to me represent how most women really feel about men. Deep down I bet most women on this board get an evil smirk when they read a thread about a man getting cheated on or read about a man in pain. They probably get some joy out of it.

 

Quite the opposite. I HATE to read about a spouse cheating on another spouse, but especially when it's a woman cheating on her husband. It makes me feel ashamed actually. I hold my peers to a higher standard than men when it comes to relationship because generally I feel men are clueless when it comes to the art of being in a relationship and also emotionally weak. In that respect, I think women have a higher responsibility in marriage because we generally "get it".

 

I find it very unfortunate that most divorces are initiated by women and feel like most of us look for our husband's to make us happy and when he fails we suddenly aren't "in love" with him anymore when the real problem is we've forgotten how to enjoy life and be ourselves regardless of what our husband's do. But, I digress.