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Another case of her "wanting to find herself"


overlyConfused

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I know I keep alluding to this in my posts, but reading what has been written by all of you caring souls truly is helping me get by.

 

Today is actually Day 10 from the day the bomb dropped. I'm not sure if it is the roller coaster effect you guys speak of, but I actually feel mad today and feel that I really am ready to get over her.

 

We had an email discussion today with regards to the mortgage. I contacted the bank, and it turns out all she needs to do is a process called an Assumption and perhaps a Quit Claim on my behalf in order to transfer all responsibility to her. I gave her this news, and she seemed fine (especially since she made a big deal about closing costs that she wouldn't be able to afford, but no closing costs are needed). She then emails me back saying that she cannot afford this (about $900) and expects me to pay for it. She then has the audacity to tell me that she is being "considerate" in that she isn't pushing the house on me. Can you believe it? I wanted to bring up the fact that we lost at least $2000 in deposits b/c she canceled the wedding. Essentially, this type of behavior is what has me feeling a little mad and ready to let go.

 

As far as socializing, I have been trying to make an extra effort to do so, and I do feel it is helping tremendously. I just hope these feelings from today stick, but I know that would be naive of me to truly believe so. I'll just have to take this on one day at a time.

 

I do have a question for today: I will be picking her up in a couple of days from the airport. Unfortunately, we have to spend some time together going to places to square away our accounts (e.g. phone, bank, etc.). Would it be in my best interest to not bring up the fact that she left me? Would attempting to make her feel guilty have any negative ramifications, or will it actually help me in some way? I apologize if this question sounds silly and immature. Thanks in advance.

 

Hi OC

 

OK, so you are being way to nice to her! If you wanted to say about the deposits why didn't you? I know, b/c you are terrified of doing anything that may stop any chance of her coming back. I was the same, but you know what, if she wants you back, she would understand also any anger or upset you expressed to her during this time, if you see what I mean.

 

Really, time to stop being Mr nice guy, all you are doing is making it easy for her and it shouldn't be easy for her, she's just s**t all over you. Calling off a wedding (jilting) is NOT normal or socially acceptable behaviour, by making it easy for her, you are essentially condoning it. She needs to know you are hurt, angry and disgusted with her but that you love her and will forgive her if she wants to work things out. Then once she knows this, you walk away and show her YOU are going to be fine either with her or without her. In other words you are done with her c**p. I know, easier said than done.

 

Why are you picking her up form the airport? You gave your word? She gave her word that she would marry you, if it were me I would leave her stood there. Let her find out what it feels like. When she calls to scream at you over it, which she will, you simply say "well honey, you jilted me so do ya really think you can complain about me standing you up?" and slam the phone down on her. Get a lawyer, sort out your accounts, phones etc through your lawyer, you are making it too easy for her, trust me on this, if nothing else you will feel like a doormat later (like I do) and she still won't be with you. I appreciate this is hard to hear right now and even more difficult to do, obviously this is just my opinion, you need to do what you feel is right for you.

 

The rollercoaster, yes you will have days you think you are done, if only it were that easy, this is going to take you some time, but it's OK, don't be hard on yourself, the fact it's going to take a while should be a comfort to you in a way, it means you truely love her and are capable of that.

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Chrome Barracuda

Let her azz take a cab... lol. I wouldnt want to be nice either. the time for being mr. nice guy is dead!

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overlyConfused

Day 11: I backslid big time. I spoke with her on the phone tonight, and I asked her if she missed me at all. She said she absolutely missed me and got a little emotional. I admitted to missing her very much as well.

 

Then ...

 

I made one stupid mistake over another. I somehow found myself asking her to come back to me and pleading with her that this can work out. I reminded her that she told me she loved me when I dropped her off at the airport. She started crying and said, "I don't want to keep going in circles like this". I tried to reason with her some more, and she was adamant and exclaimed that she has made up her mind for good.

 

Feeling rejected, I then brought up the mortgage crisis that we had been arguing about, and reminded her that I demanded that she take over the mortgage and that I want nothing to do with it. By this time, both of us were angry.

 

I must be the stupidest lame-o on the planet. I was doing so well yesterday, the day before, and even all day today before I called her. I feel manned up again as of now, but how in the world did I backslide so easily? This is insane. I ended the night being a complete jerk to her, and I gained nothing by it.

 

I think one of the main problems I find myself having is trying to be cold to her like the consensus here suggests. I have been trying to behave strictly business; however, this isn't my true personality. Call me a whimp, pushover, wuss, or anything emasculate. My very nature is to be a nice person. It's not that I do not have a spine; I have always treated people with respect ever since I was young, regardless of whether or not someone truly deserves it. Although the woman I love kicked me to the curb, I still care for her and want her to be okay. I can man up all I want, but I have to admit doing so isn't natural. I have loved her for eight years. It's difficult to not worry about her well being despite what she has done. Perhaps I am destined to be a <insert emasculating term here>.

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Overlyconfused > You have always treated everyone else with respect...time to start respecting yourself. Forget about loving her, for she does not love you. My money is on that there is someone else. Think about it, people don't just end a long term relationship to find themselves on their own! She cold have easily find herself with your support!

 

You are such a lucky man...you have no kids and no marriage! Run as fast as you can! The only way out of this, is to sever all ties now. If it is only $900 to see the back of her, pay it. It will be the best expenditure you will ever make! Trust me, I have been there two years ago. Things went from civilised to down right ugly! Be decisive! Move on! It will hurt for a while like a bad tooth, but once you have it out permanently, you won't feel a thing in a few months time. If you keep this bad tooth, the more you pick at it, the more pain! Use your head. Split now...for good.

 

Nomad1

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Hi OC

 

Don't be hard on yourself, we all did what you did. One day about 6 weeks after my ex left he called regarding some of the legal paperwork to do with our house. I was detrmined to be business like, but somehow got upset and blurted out that he had stolen my memories of our relationship b/c he had lied to me so much (he also said on a few occasions that he had been unhappy for the whole 18 years, it changed a lot, to 6 years, 8 years, 3 years, 6 months and back again). I started to cry.

 

He called me back later and aplogized saying he never meant to take my memories etc.

 

I stupidly then called him later that day, he admitted to still loving me and said "I'm not as certain in my decision now as I was". I immediatel started to beg for forgiveness (for what I have no idea, as I had done nothing wrong, even now, I don't think I had done anything terrible), he then back tracked said it was the right decision, no way would we get back together etc etc.

 

Don't feel bad, it happens to us all, give yourself a break, you love her. This si going to take some time, you have been with her 8 years, it's not going to disappear overnight. As for being cold, I don't advocate that you should be, you can be pleasant and let her know you love her and would like to work it out, but at the same time let her you know you can't change her mind and if she insists on going, you will be fine without her. This may well make her think about what she is losing, rather than her feeling like she has to push you away (in her mind, hope that makes sense?).

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overlyConfused

It's been a little over three weeks now, and I do feel a little better; however, this isn't saying much. I was able to do NC for a full week, but somehow I ended up speaking with her mother on the phone. Her mother would not stop crying, since they consider me to be family already. They are Asian and old-school, so this is a very big deal to them (as well as my family). To cut the the chase, listening to her mom crying like that and telling me to "do all that can to win her back" resulted in me breaking NC and backsliding on my feelings.

 

I invited her to dinner, and everything went very well. She obviously misses me, as I do her. I really do feel she is genuine in her excuse for leaving; however, I still do not agree with her for kicking me to the curb. We began talking, and she admitted that she still wanted me to be a part of her life and not go into NC; nonetheless, she still wanted to have the freedom of being alone.

 

One thing lead to another, and we both agreed that it would be good if we visited family together during the holidays. We made plans to do so, but remained in an LC mode. Yesterday, I called her up and lost my cool. I told her that I want her to reassure me that she will give us another chance later down the road when she is ready (rather than date other people). I basically pushed her further away from me, and we ended up cancelling the trip together to visit family and friends.

 

Her mom found out about this, and she is sad once again. Both she and my mother asked me to try to work things out again to where she would agree to visit family together. They feel that this is the key to her realizing her mistake. I am confident that this is possible as long as I am not so pushy; however, is this the right thing to do with regards to visiting family with her?

 

My family and friends around me have very different advice from what I read on the boards. They claim that my situation is not typical, and that I still have a chance to win her back if I give her the space that she wants -- while making sure she doesn't completely forget me at the same time. Before my mistake of being way too pushy on the phone yesterday, we were talking about traveling together and seeing the country/world. I know she still loves me, and she is clearly trying her best to hide those feelings in an attempt to not change her mind about what it is she wants: to be independent.

 

I'm really confused right about now. I do feel like I can move on, and the week with NC was liberating; however, when I dig deep, I feel that breaking up is a huge mistake. Our families feel that we can patch things up with time and being apart. On the other hand, these boards say to completely sever her from my life in the form of strict NC. I am conflicted. Is anyone else in my shoes?

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You don't forget someone you have been with for 7 yrs.

It just doesn't happen.

If she has cold feet over the wedding, you delay it.

You don't bail.

 

My wife left me when I dug deep & found out she was cheating.

She then manipulated me after we seperated.

Giving me crap about needing space to work on things. ECT.

 

She was still cheating.

She wanted to keep me on the line just in case things didn't work out with her & her boyfriend.

 

Had I just gone NC or LC (we have kids) when she moved out my world would of been a much better place.

 

Now that i know what i'm dealing with I can say I am done with her & happier for it.

 

Before you do anything, you need to find out who the OM is. I suspect it's someone at work considering she freaked about you getting a job there.

She wanted you to apply. now she doesn't?

 

My wife freaked when I wanted to save money by putting us both on a family plan. Someone who complains about lack of money doesn't want to save the equivelant of a full tank of gas by doing a family plan on cell phones?!?!? WTF?!?

She didn't want me seeing who she called & when.

 

Do yourself a favor.

Hire an investigator to follow her & take pictures.

 

You could do it yourself but you'll look pathetic if she sees you.

 

Please don't rule out another man.

you must look into that possability.

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Stop talking to her mother. Blood is thicker than water. Don't use the mother as a go-between. What is going on is between you and her only, do not get family involved.

 

Go strict NC. Doing this will not make her forget about you, it does the complete opposite. If you are around, chatting, visiting family during the festive holiday season, she will not miss you and wonder what you are up to. She will have you just where she wants ya and when she has weaned herself completely off you, she will just say bye bye. You feel bad now? It will be 100 times worse when this happens and it will. It's in the cards.

 

Show her through actions what a great guy you are. How you are the man and that you are not a whimpering little boy. You're independent, don't need her and life will go on with or without her. You are the prize. She doesn't want ya, there are plenty who would.

 

If there is another man in the pic, same thing applies, the only difference being, she is a cheater. Cheaters are liars and they are like a cancer. The road back would be next to impossible.

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overlyConfused

As I've stated before, I am almost certain there isn't another man. To be honest, sometimes I wish there was. I feel like if there was, it would be easier for me to move on, but I guess I should be careful what I wish for.

 

As soon as I get the mortgage worked out, NC will be so much easier for me. We are in the process of transferring the responsibility of the house totally to her, but this will take a little time to complete. In the meantime, we may need to talk about getting this squared away, so NC is a little difficult at this point. What a mess!

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As I've stated before, I am almost certain there isn't another man. To be honest, sometimes I wish there was. I feel like if there was, it would be easier for me to move on, but I guess I should be careful what I wish for.

 

As soon as I get the mortgage worked out, NC will be so much easier for me. We are in the process of transferring the responsibility of the house totally to her, but this will take a little time to complete. In the meantime, we may need to talk about getting this squared away, so NC is a little difficult at this point. What a mess!

 

Almost certain?

 

As for wishing there was someone else because it would make things easier is so not true. It is the equivalent of being told someone you love dearly has died. The depths of pain after finding out the person you have loved and cherished could do such an unthinkable crime against you can make ones world come crashing down around them. Perhaps that is why there are those that can keep their head in the sand and not go seek the real truth. This could also be the reason why the cheater chooses not to tell the real truth. They look at you as a fragile human being that should be spared an emotional upset. It also spares the cheater of having to look at themselves in the mirror and see themselves for the selfish monster they chose to become.

 

The longer you put off going NC, the further away she gets. She still has you where she wants you. You have no control and she feeds off it.

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As I've stated before, I am almost certain there isn't another man. To be honest, sometimes I wish there was. I feel like if there was, it would be easier for me to move on, but I guess I should be careful what I wish for.

 

As soon as I get the mortgage worked out, NC will be so much easier for me. We are in the process of transferring the responsibility of the house totally to her, but this will take a little time to complete. In the meantime, we may need to talk about getting this squared away, so NC is a little difficult at this point. What a mess!

 

I know you stated it multiple times, but what was recommended to you by others bears repeating: Look deeper, because women rarely leave a committed relationship without someone to run to! Look how many people here have written that their partners said similar reassuring things, only to find out in devastating fashion they were being lied to!

 

And even if she is not, you're not helping the situation by sticking onto her. Pull back to recover, regroup, and maybe even save your relationship.

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overlyConfused

I have changed my mind. I am not "almost certain" that she isn't cheating on me. I am absolutely positive. The time apart has got me to thinking about my behavior during our 8 years together. I hate to admit this, but I was extremely clingy. I always wanted to be around her, and doing so left me no desire to spend much time with friends.

 

I can see remnants of this co-dependent behavior even though we are now separated. I am becoming disillusioned and realize that my actions pushed her away. It makes sense now why she feels like she needs to be independent. Nevertheless, I just don't see why she couldn't work this out with me. You can't just throw 8 years into the trash. Well ... apparently you can.

 

I guess I truly need to follow everyone's advice and go NC. I have not read up much on the 180 thing, but I will research it this weekend. Before the 1 full week of NC, I showed her I was confident and actually excited about my future, since many new things (like work) were going on for me. I expressed to her in email that I felt good about moving on and that I didn't need her in my life ... and that I was going to be just fine. She replied with the following: "I guess this is best for both of us. You seem like you are doing much better without me." After the last meeting (where I was confident), we did 1 week of NC. I would ignore her calls and texts.

 

At the very end of the week, she continued to call my phone over and over again, and I continued to ignore them. She then wrote an email about how she was only trying to call because it was about her mother. I became very worried and thought that her mother was hurt or in trouble, so I called her mother's house. Her mother picked up, and it turned out that she finally found out about the breakup, and that she couldn't stop crying. I finally got a hold of my ex to square things away. She went on to say that, even though we were not together, she thought we could count on each other ... and that she apparently cannot count on me ... and that I was "unreliable". I truly broke NC and 180, and now I am back to square one.

 

I promise you guys I will try my best this time around. I still do miss her and love her, but I really need to be a man. I have to admit that it is much harder b/c of the holidays, but I am going to do some traveling to get my mind off of her. I truly need to suck it up and drive on. I am hoping that tomorrow will be better than today.

Edited by overlyConfused
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overlyConfused

I woke up overwhelmed with emotion today. I had dreams that we were still together. I'm not sure why I feel this way when I have accepted the fact that we both are moving on. I don't even miss her at this point. It's more anger than anything, and the catalyst for my anger is thinking about how she has thrown away 8 years ... just like that.

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overlyConfused

I had a great time tonight going out with some friends. We went to a couple of bars, and two girls from different places paid extra close attention to me. I had no interest in them at all, whatsoever. Perhaps this is why they were drawn to me. My friends thought I was a nutcase for not partaking, but I truly felt no desire. I'll probably regret it right before I go to bed :o

 

With regards to the ex, I have to actually see her tomorrow to work out some finances and get the rest of my things from our house. I texted her tonight to let her know I was going to be a little late (some drinking going on tonight). Tonight was the first time in 8 years that I actually called her by her name. It actually felt liberating for some strange reason.

 

We'll see how tomorrow goes. I'm going to try to suck it up and drive on. I wish I didn't have to break NC, but it is absolutely necessary tomorrow.

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DOnt worry about partaking at the bar. Watching the girls knowing they want to talk to you will eventually get you to a point where you will want to talk to them. Theres no rush.

 

Now you really have to be the man. Dont tell your ex about your life, she doesnt deserve to hear about it.

She doesnt deserve your friendship when she deserted you.

She doesnt deserve your friendship when she felt she needed to be away from you.

Dont tell her about whats going on with you at all. You say "Everything is great" and get back to business.

 

Right now she needs to lean on you for friendship so she can easily get over you . So she can wean herself off you. Dont let that happen, let her suffer. Just like you suffered. Stay as far away from her as you can.

 

Once the finances are done, you are done with her and the family and dont look back. No need to be friends with someone who does this to you.

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Its just this simple!

 

Either she's part of the solution?

 

Or she's part of the PROMBLEM?

 

Either she's part of of the ANSWERS?

 

Or part of the QUESTIONS?

 

JUST THAT PLAIN AND SIMPLE!

 

Just that plain and simple! :mad:

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Simon Attwood

I've not read everything here, but I'm going to give you my take on "when a woman needs to find herself";

 

She is not trying to find herself, she is trying to run away from herself. She is escaping a future that she fears because of the uncertainty that the future contains. To her, it would be her whole life gone and decided, without spontaneity, without surprise. She fears she will be giving away the possibilities that the future might contain. She fears feeling trapped. The animal part of her brain has taken over her decision making. It's the choice of fight or flight, and she has chosen flight.

 

putting it simply, she's terrified, but she is rationalising that fear as something else in order to mask it from her own awareness, and from the observation of others. She doesn't want herself or others to see her fear and know that it is fear that is the motivating factor in her behaviour at the moment.

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Simon Attwood

Consider this quote from David Mann's "Love and Hate; A psychoanalytical perspective";

 

Love can seem a risky business. Fairbairn (1940) makes the point that love can feel threatening. Love can close down psychological distance between individuals and, therefore, can be experienced as a threat to a fragile sense of self. Hate, on the other hand, creates more distance and erects barriers against the potentially destructive nature of intimate contact with the other. I would elaborate this further and say that hate enables the individual to maintain contact with others since it still maintains a passionate connection, a relationship, that does not threaten to smother the self. Schizoid traits in the personality may leave the individual feeling more comfortable inducing hate rather than love in libidinal objects. Dealing with hatred and aggression can, in this sense, be much safer than the intimacy of love.

 

I am aware that you aren't experiencing hate (yet) and I hope it never comes to that because that is a nasty experience, especially when you love the person that appears to hate you, but consider the first part; that love can feel threatening. She loves you, but yet is trying to escape that love because it is perceived as threatening. Currently she is doing that the nice way, without intending to hurt you.

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I've not read everything here, but I'm going to give you my take on "when a woman needs to find herself";

 

She is not trying to find herself, she is trying to run away from herself. She is escaping a future that she fears because of the uncertainty that the future contains. To her, it would be her whole life gone and decided, without spontaneity, without surprise. She fears she will be giving away the possibilities that the future might contain. She fears feeling trapped. The animal part of her brain has taken over her decision making. It's the choice of fight or flight, and she has chosen flight.

 

putting it simply, she's terrified, but she is rationalising that fear as something else in order to mask it from her own awareness, and from the observation of others. She doesn't want herself or others to see her fear and know that it is fear that is the motivating factor in her behaviour at the moment.

 

Consider this quote from David Mann's "Love and Hate; A psychoanalytical perspective";

 

 

 

I am aware that you aren't experiencing hate (yet) and I hope it never comes to that because that is a nasty experience, especially when you love the person that appears to hate you, but consider the first part; that love can feel threatening. She loves you, but yet is trying to escape that love because it is perceived as threatening. Currently she is doing that the nice way, without intending to hurt you.

 

So true, my ex was commitment phobic as well, yesterday would have been my wedding day if he wasn't running from himself and blaming me for it. I have moments where I beleive his blame though, and then I beat myself up. It's hard. Oh, and your right, eventually they get nasty, very nasty!

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overlyConfused

Thanks again, everybody, for all your support. To be honest, I was starting to think that everybody stopped paying attention to this thread. Just when I thought I shouldn't even bother with LS anymore, some very caring, insightful people put a lot of good thoughts in my mind (minus the whole "she is definitely screwing someone at work" thought).

 

I went over to the house so that we could both go to the bank to have her removed from my account. We didn't really talk the whole ride to the bank. When she pulled out her purse to give the bank clerk her ID card, I noticed that she was carrying a picture of us at the very front pocket of her billfold where you would usually put your ID card in behind a sheet of plastic. I guess I should truly think about this as if she has just not had time to remove it yet.

 

On the way back to the house, I mentioned to her how weird it was to call her by her first name, since (as mentioned previously), I have not called her that in almost 8 years. I probably shouldn't have brought this up, since I think it made her a little emotional, and I could see her eyes start to water. If she gets emotional, then I am more likely to get emotional as well, so it's a good thing I changed the subject.

 

It turns out that I couldn't move some of the furniture, as well as my brother's bed (he has been living with us so that I can help put him through college ... and now lives w/ me in my apartment), so I will have to break NC in about 3 weeks to get that done. I really wish I didn't have to, but I really have no financially feasible choice. My brother may be able to get his friends to help in my place, but they will be out of town for a while.

 

As far as actually being around my ex, it was as if I had no feeling at all. I was not sad, and I was not even angry. It's actually really hard to describe the feeling, since it's something I've never experienced before. Before I left, she was upstairs in our her room getting a few of my things squared away while I said goodbye to my puppies (who, by the way, absolutely went bonkers when they saw me come home ... and wouldn't let me out of their sight). I called her by her first name and said a simple, "I'm leaving now ... bye". It was really awkward, and I don't think she liked it very much.

 

We'll see what the rest of the day brings. I need to try to keep my mind as busy as possible. I'm thinking of going to the bookstore later to get a self-help book about my situation, so if anybody has any suggestions for something that seems like a good fit for what I am going through, please let me know.

 

I really miss her and would take her back in a heartbeat; nevertheless, since I know she won't ever come back, I'm still battling it out on my own.

 

One thing is for sure ... she looked absolutely amazing today. She is the sexiest, most beautiful girl I have ever seen.

Edited by overlyConfused
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overlyConfused

My ex called me twice just now needing help with the complicated network I set up for the internet. I have our house wired with Cat 5 ethernet cable and use a system of switches and routers to get what I need. I digress ...

 

The first time she called, I missed her call, so I had to call her back. She mentioned right away (without saying hello) that she was having problems with our wireless router. I was nice, very accommodating, and helped her get squared away.

 

She called me back 5 minutes later asking for more help (which turned out to be user error). We hung up after saying an unemotional "bye". By this time, I was a little aggravated.

 

I called her back and told her, "you really need to learn how to do this stuff on your own, have someone else help you, or set up a much simpler network". I then mentioned that "I really want to move on and not communicate for a while" ... let alone be her IT helpdesk. She kind of got defensive, but I wouldn't give in. She hung up angry.

 

Did I do a horrible thing? I was not a complete A-Hole, but at the same time, I was not a pushover. I really want to succeed with NC, and her contacting me for help throws it all off. Besides, doesn't she want to be "independent" and "be [her] own person"? Or ... does helping her give me a chance of winning her back?

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well done!

 

you are not an information desk. I have answered requests frommy exthat he could well have found out on the internet (he works for IBM for f*cks sake!()

 

we just seem to do it out of habbit! hey i will take a leaf out of your book!

 

xx

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My ex called me twice just now needing help with the complicated network I set up for the internet. I have our house wired with Cat 5 ethernet cable and use a system of switches and routers to get what I need. I digress ...

 

The first time she called, I missed her call, so I had to call her back. She mentioned right away (without saying hello) that she was having problems with our wireless router. I was nice, very accommodating, and helped her get squared away.

 

She called me back 5 minutes later asking for more help (which turned out to be user error). We hung up after saying an unemotional "bye". By this time, I was a little aggravated.

 

I called her back and told her, "you really need to learn how to do this stuff on your own, have someone else help you, or set up a much simpler network". I then mentioned that "I really want to move on and not communicate for a while" ... let alone be her IT helpdesk. She kind of got defensive, but I wouldn't give in. She hung up angry.

 

Did I do a horrible thing? I was not a complete A-Hole, but at the same time, I was not a pushover. I really want to succeed with NC, and her contacting me for help throws it all off. Besides, doesn't she want to be "independent" and "be [her] own person"? Or ... does helping her give me a chance of winning her back?

 

you did good! she may be actually finding these little "emergencies" she needs you for just to yank your chain - it happens a lot. it's called manipulation... you did well - she just didn't like that you called her on her manipulation - much less noticed.

 

set a tighter boundary - it will help. tell her if she needs anything - to go find someone else to rescue her... you finished with that role when she decided she needed to find herself... is she still looking? or just looking and using you along the way? how MUCH are you willing to let her use you? that answer will determine your healthy boundary.

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