kdark Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Why do so many christians feel the need to keep America a "christian nation?" I don't see how America can uphold freedom of religion while still having "In God we trust" on all currency, and forcing witnesses in court to swear to a bible. Tradition is one thing, but these things all so obviously violate the first amendment. "One Nation, under God" in the pledge of allegiance is another. Am I the only one infuriated by this? Why do religions feel the need to have so many overt symbols, phrases, and dogmas inserted in the daily lives of so many people who want nothing to do with them? Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Why do so many christians feel the need to keep America a "christian nation?"Because our FOUNDING Fathers wanted it that way. Many may argue, but the Truth is that our constitution is based from Judeo-Christian beliefs. I think Ronald Reagan said it best....not sure if I can quote it right, "If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under" IF you understood that God does not seperate the Jew from the Gentile, the Whites from Blacks, the Asians from Indians...then maybe you'd have a better GRASP on your stance.... Link to post Share on other sites
TheLoneSock Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 No one is forcing anything down your throat, you have every right to avoid any instance you mentioned. If anything religion is fading and atheism is growing, so you crying wolf about forceful religion is in fact, merely crying wolf. Link to post Share on other sites
knaveman Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 They can put God on or in as many things as they like or make this country as Christian as they like, but it still won't make me believe in it. When they start to say that you must be a Christian and believe in God to be an American, then we have a problem. Link to post Share on other sites
TheLoneSock Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 They can put God on or in as many things as they like or make this country as Christian as they like, but it still won't make me believe in it. When they start to say that you must be a Christian and believe in God to be an American, then we have a problem. Exactly. And I highly doubt you are bothered to the point of infuriated. The OP has every right to react the same as you, with indifference. Link to post Share on other sites
knaveman Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Exactly. And I highly doubt you are bothered to the point of infuriated. The OP has every right to react the same as you, with indifference. The whole infuriation thing seems kind of pointless. Why get so worked up over something you don't even believe in? Why do that to yourself? I just don't understand that mentality. Link to post Share on other sites
Moose Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 They can put God on or in as many things as they like or make this country as Christian as they like, but it still won't make me believe in it. When they start to say that you must be a Christian and believe in God to be an American, then we have a problem.Trust me....that won't happen. Most likely, you'd have to bow down to Mr. O himself to be an American. I'll be one of the first in line to have my head chopped off! Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Why do so many christians feel the need to keep America a "christian nation?" I don't see how America can uphold freedom of religion while still having "In God we trust" on all currency, and forcing witnesses in court to swear to a bible. Tradition is one thing, but these things all so obviously violate the first amendment. "One Nation, under God" in the pledge of allegiance is another. Am I the only one infuriated by this? Why do religions feel the need to have so many overt symbols, phrases, and dogmas inserted in the daily lives of so many people who want nothing to do with them? For me, it could just as easily say "One nation under Santa" or "In the tooth fairy we trust". It's just as silly either way. I do think that the term "God" has come to mean "god(s)", in that the term god means different things for different people. That's the only way it can be justified in a diverse religious nation. Politics and religion should never mix in my opinion, but it's unfortunately inevitable. I think religion is a freedom, not a law, and should never be included in governing practices. Link to post Share on other sites
threebyfate Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I don't support any organized religion but I uphold everyone's right to practice their religion. This is part of your history and has become tradition. Shrug and move on. Link to post Share on other sites
Rooster_DAR Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 They can put God on or in as many things as they like or make this country as Christian as they like, but it still won't make me believe in it. When they start to say that you must be a Christian and believe in God to be an American, then we have a problem. Now that's a quote I can live with..... Link to post Share on other sites
Toki Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Actually, many founding fathers weren't Christian. Yes I said it, they were a part of the Age of Enlightenment, Fresh off Co-Church totalitarian rule in Europe and Church was as much a social venue, like city hall to get the word out about Revolution, and such. I don't think any founding fathers were absolute in their convictions, or if they were, not much was written about it. Jefferson, and Madison were both Deists (as in pretty much any Free Mason at this time), and Ben Franklin although born a Puritan converted to Episcopalian since the wealthiest and influential members of the Colonies were also Episcopalian. He did it as a political move, rather than one that dictated his faith; of which he did believe in god, but believed Church was more useful as a social venue, to keep the good men of society in contact with one another, than actually being important in liturgy, so he rarely attended. He was also friends with Voltaire, so this doesn't bode well that the founding fathers were what we today think Christian as being. Link to post Share on other sites
Toki Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 On the other hand they were well versed in the Bible and were certainly not atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Shinto, Buddhists or any other non-Christian faith ... which sort of leaves them as Christian secularists, not unlike many Americans today. Except the well versed part is no longer true. Absolutely, and I think a great amount of cynicism shows itself in Jefferson, Madison, Washington, John Adams, and Ben Franklin's writings; they were as well versed in theology, as they were in Philosophy, whereas today the majority (well..okay, even then they weren't the majority) are taught neither. It wasn't that religion wasn't central to them, but that they were convinced that no good could come out a religiously dominated state. Unfortunately Congress didn't think so in the 1860's, when there was an upsurge in religious fanaticism, no doubt caused by the Civil War going on, and that many people were quite upset that the coinage was without any religious symbolism, and wanted people to think in future generations that if the Union were to be destroyed in the war, they weren't godless heathens, The Treasury Secretary agreed and "In God We Trust" was added to the 2 cent coin. Before the Civil War, the Government was quite adamant about keeping religion out of the Government (although it always did seem to leave a ghostly trail). But then again, before the Civil War, Money wasn't standardized... so hey, I guess it did serve at least two purposes. Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Even if America was founded as a Christian nation (which it wasn't), that doesn't mean anything now. It was also founded on exploitation and attempted genocide of native inhabitants and slave labour. It's all about progress. The government should be as free from religious interference as possible. There has not been one historical instance of a theocracy (especially one based around bronze-age Abrahamic religions) that did not result in persecution and marginalisation of non-official faiths. We need to grow out of that sort of behaviour and thinking. Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Trojan John Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Founding fathers? The "under God" part wasn't added until 1954. Link to post Share on other sites
RA1 Posted December 4, 2009 Share Posted December 4, 2009 I think the USA still has a ways to go before becoming a fully secular state. So I sympathize with the feelings of the OP. Link to post Share on other sites
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