My life is a mess.

January 11, 2010

How is the white girl? Your aunt?

He probably doesn't know because his mom won't allow him to talk to any of her family. As for the aunt, he isn't allowed because she has been outcast and segregated against.

January 11, 2010

Hey Reactant,

You mentioned R's mom? or someone? sent you the email of the letter your mom didn't allow you to read. I was wondering if you read it yet. If so, did the letter show you, or let you figure out the reason your mom didn't let you read the letter or why your mom kept the contents a secret from you? I was thinking if you hadn't read it yet, that maybe she had some information in that letter that your mom didn't want you to see that you could use against your family to make your own case stronger. It seems there might be since your mom didn't let you read it..., in fact you know she didn't want you to see it for some reasons of her own. If you haven't read it yet, maybe you could look through and see what if anything you could use from it.

How are you doing? Did you heal up from your surgery?

What happened when you came home after your six hours of being gone out the door without asking permission. You are still in one piece??!! If you keep showing that much courage in defying your brother and parents, you will help this cause a lot. So, remember to stay tough.

Oh, and did you have to wear the woman's coat you grabbed? All this serious stuff which makes me frustrated, angry and sick at heart with our parents, but... I still laugh about the female coat you grabbed on your grand exit.

I think you should continue to leave the house without asking permission. You took the step, so walk with it.....how do you feel about that?

Do your bro or your parents ever apologize to you for anything they say to you, or how they treat you? Or, do they try to make you feel guilty and say sorry to them for things you have said?

Yep Monkeeman, his mom probably tried her hardest, but if she did hopefully he didn't listen to her.

I am glad Sparkling researched for you, research isn't my favorite thing to do but I will if I need to.

Did you have that conversation with your brother? Man, it takes a lot of courage to fight your family. Mine exhaust me, but I feel proud even though it is so hard. I know it is the right thing to do, so that keeps me going. My option is to keep the status quo this way and make any kids I have someday have to suffer through this like we are.....and I don't intend that to happen. I will take the heat on me so I don't have to watch my kids suffer some day. Reactant, this is a tough thing to do, but it is the right thing to do under God's eyes. Stay tough!

January 11, 2010

If anyone reading this would like to help, could you send the definitions of racist, segregated, bigot, caste system, etc., plus, any of the sites, information with site quotes with urls which affected you most talking about how arranged marriages perpetuate and cause evil and wives to be burned alive, or murdered by other means because it is cheaper to murder her then maintain her, plus easier to murder than get a divorce on the social status issue, and how it takes place mainly in the Hindu regions among the most educated and forward it on to your friends please..especially get it forwarded into the Indian communities and among the youth. Also, it is important to show Indian women and men that they do NOT protect Indian women in society. It is even causing them to abort female fetuses, this practice of arranged marriages and the impact on females going through this into enforced slavery. Also, after one daughter is burned alive, they often send the next daughter to be married to the man who burned her sister alive.......??? It is crazy!! So, please help!!

Edited January 11, 2010 by Sadgati

January 12, 2010

If anyone reading this would like to help, could you send the definitions of racist, segregated, bigot, caste system, etc., plus, any of the sites, information with site quotes with urls which affected you most talking about how arranged marriages perpetuate and cause evil and wives to be burned alive, or murdered by other means because it is cheaper to murder her then maintain her, plus easier to murder than get a divorce on the social status issue, and how it takes place mainly in the Hindu regions among the most educated and forward it on to your friends please..especially get it forwarded into the Indian communities and among the youth. Also, it is important to show Indian women and men that they do NOT protect Indian women in society. It is even causing them to abort female fetuses, this practice of arranged marriages and the impact on females going through this into enforced slavery. Also, after one daughter is burned alive, they often send the next daughter to be married to the man who burned her sister alive.......??? It is crazy!! So, please help!!

I was going back over this thread thinking about compiling a forward to send around as I thought your suggestion would be a great idea, but discovered that I am emotionally invested in this now and wasn't able to compile it in a neat, factual, precise, context. (not Reactant's personal story, but caste system, segregation, bigot, racism and arranged marriage=abuse story) Maybe someone else will be able to put that together.

I did see this however and thought it makes a valid point for Reactant.

1. His brother tells of all the hardships his parents endured and SACRIFICED living as Indians under Indian culture. In this statement below, his mother is saying about the hardships they will have to suffer living with a white Causaian girl... It is another contradiction IMHO.

2. His brother choosing to live with a brown girl now is a SELF SACRIFICE...A HARDSHIP HE WILL HAVE TO ENDURE s he would RATHER DIE than shame them.

3. His parents told him this I pasted below about how the hardship will be for him to marry a white caucasian girl

Two out of three make it worse, and a worse hardship to be an Indian married to an Indian by ALL OF their own words!!!! His parents had NO LIFE, his brother is sacrificing himself and his soul.....which is the better choice?

Now, his own brother already said his parents led a NOTHING LIFE...depending on which colour girl he married. This really is laughable if it weren't so sad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparkling

"little more concerned how you appear to 'western society' and how they perceive you since you are living among us instead of disregarding us as beneath you"

>>>very true. Of course they dont want me speaking to anyone about this. My parents freaked when I told them recently that i spoke to a pundath (hindu priest) about my situation. My mom became very angry and said the following points:

-My mom was more concenred if the priest knew the family well and if he would spread rumors.

-she discredit all presits and labelled them as crooked.

-and told me the priest was Arya Samaj, a different type of hinduism and therefore I cant take him too seriously. When asked how are they different than hindus in general, she didnt know.

I also forgot to mention they cry because they tell me they can foresee how terrible my life will be. They keep telling me that i havent thought of the ramifications of my actions.

-How we'll have to adjust to her traditions

-how religion will confuse the child

-the child only learns the mothers tongue and since she cant speak hindi (as of yet) the child will only speak english

-she wont be able to communicate efficetively with my parents

-the entire Indian community will pick on her

no matter how many times i illustrate solutions to this potential problems, they always remind me how i'm young and naive, that being the youngest in the family i cant possibly know what i'm speaking about.

I feel anything i say, no matter how presuasive its always shut down by them either labelled as i'm a young or i simply can never understand the hardships i will endure and they will endure. "

Edited January 12, 2010 by Sparkling

January 13, 2010

Hey everyone,

I'm sorry for my late replies but i'm getting swamped in school and i never catch up with the pace the class is going. I have to go to bed tonight early as i have to get up early and study for a quiz tomorrow morning. But i have so much to say, so i'll reply as soon as i finish class tommorow.

Thanks again for all your help.

January 13, 2010

If this happens again, could you please let us know if there was only bad news again, or if you had any good news or break throughs? I got very nervous here.

January 14, 2010

So, which one is the truth?

The problem is, i've seen her cry many times at her home. I just didnt know what it was about. I would always ask but no one would tell me. At the time, i was in highschool, and thought it was because she was upset with how her children were turning out. Later on i went to univerity, lived in residence and hardly visited her home since then. Whenever i went to gathers i would see her, but was oblivious to the treatment she was recieving. I do recall one time her head was down when she was speaking to someone but that was a very long time ago. It wasnt until my brother began pointing it out to me did i begin to undrestand. Since then, i've kept a viligent eye on her. So far i havnet seen many cues of her being treated wrongly other than her arriving to our gatherings late and sometimes not at all (not sure if she wasnt invited or had to go to work). I dont know whats truth as my brother has spoke about how shes been treated. Her head isnt always down, thats what my brother told me, i've seen her head down once so far and that was a long time ago.

"Do you intend to challenge him in front of the brown girl?
If you talk to him, don't forget how he gave some metaphor that had something slightly to do with the subject when he had that discussion with your girlfriend. Keep in mind he will do this again, so sift through what he says with a grain of salt and don't allow him to distract you from the root of this evil...., and stick to what you do know."

>>>I'll start telling u more what i said in response to them rather than stating what they said. Some members are veiwing me as a person whose silent in the conversation, so here goes.

I called and spoke to my parents about R. I asked them how come my brother isnt going to visit her since she's in a coma. My mother for some reason was surprised. this really confuses me as the letter did mention the word coma. My mom told me she knew my brother's ex was sick but not a coma.

Now that she knew, it became clear she wanted to distance herself from the family. She said its my brother's decision if he wanted to come back to Oregan and see her at the hospital. I was angry at my mother and asked her how she could tell me that she loved R, when she personally felt it was best for my brother to distance himself away from her. She got very angry and didnt really give a reason, but began blaming me for her stress and asking why do i keep calling and badgering her.

My brother eventually got on the phone and i asked him why he wasnt seeing her atleast. I reminded him he was with her for 8 years, wanted to marry her at one point, and now at her absolute time of need he wouldnt see her? He was silent for a few seconds, and asked me a question, "Its my decision wheather I want to see her, is it not?" I responded that i could not control what he did so ultimately it is his decision. He said he'll think about it, but he and i both know hes not going. Why would he, my parents wouldnt want him to go, he's "suppose" to be separating himself from her (this is what they are thinking not me). I asked him what reason would he have not to go there. He replied this wasnt concerning me which is when i reminded him that his ex called him her little brother and i saw her as my big sister. That i was involved the day she spoke to me about his relationship, when she helped me with assignments, when we exchanged emails. I asked him again what reasons does he have not to go, and he went off track with the discussion. In the end i told him that he doesnt go it will be a terrible act he'll have to carry the rest of his life, that what he chose to do today can define him as a person or a coward. The conversation went off track real fast and evnetually family members were grabbing the phone and yelling at me. It wasnt a good conversation.

J told me a while back that some people at his situation would jump to their feet to see her. Others cant because they probably are in so much guilt that they couldnt bare to see the person that they possiblity are responsible for taking part of their will to live. There was no question that R was sad.

"was looking at your profile and saw you had joined here in Feb 2005, very close to five years ago. You talked about another girl you liked at that time and said you had met her first day you started uni. You are in med school now, and have been for awhile so you are somewhere in your mid twenties. Using some logic, your brother would be somewhere close to thirty wouldn't he, depending on how many years there are between you?"

>>>Yes, that was my first year in nursing university. Thank God it didnt work out. Age wise your very close =).

"So, why do you and your brother have to ask your mom for permission before you leave your house? That is just crazy. I have to wonder why she won't allow you to grow up. You said it is huge and you have to ask, and your brother has never left without asking. I can see saying hey mom, I am heading into town, but asking permission?"

>>>It sounds weird. It sounds strange. But its true. I mean it would have been different if i wasnt away from the home all time time. I come home for 2 weeks and off to medschool for 4 months. So my mom see those 2 weeks as precious. It wasnt like this before when i was in highschool. I would go to the mall, be with friends all the time and they wouldnt know where. But i think ever since i've been with J they've become extra protective, extra attached and very very nosy.

"I would also like to know how the ill white girlfriend is doing and your aunt...... "

They moved her to into pallative care, her state is still the same.

My aunt, like i said the last relative gathering i went to, she seemed fine. It has only come to my attention about the segregation from my brother. And to think about it, he could have exaggerated about that too. Thers a lot i dont know as i did see her sad and cry over the years but i always assumed it was it was about disciplining her children. I havent seen any recent evidence, oh i remember my mom telling me that my aunt was angry no one came to her to consult problems like they used to and that she complained finding out the news int he family the latest. My aunt told something to my mom that really disturbed her. My mom told me when i was back in Canada, (sorry if i mentiond this before) that my aunt approached her and said soemthign along the lines of 'you know people arent respecting me now but just wait when people find what your children are up to, then the spotlight wont be on me anymore'

My mom was spooked by this comment and was paranoid if my aunt knows about my relationship with J. I wont be surprised if she did, its a small world.

"As for the aunt, he isn't allowed because she has been outcast and segregated against. "

No i can see my aunt, she outcasted on a social sense i believe. She still comes to family functions but not all the time (not sure if wasnt invited or just has to go to work). There are hints of my relatives not respecting her such as her complaining that she finds out news the last and no one coming to her and consulting issues (our families always consult with one another concerning problems). I exaggerated about the head being down too, thats something i heard from my brother but i saw it happen once a few years back.

I feel terrible having you guys wait so long for a reply. I dont know what to do. I feel always behind in my studies and guilty for not posting here enough. I have my first set of exams on monday so i should be able to reply after then. I'm very sorry.

January 14, 2010

>>>I'll start telling u more what i said in response to them rather than stating what they said. Some members are veiwing me as a person whose silent in the conversation, so here goes.

I like to hear both personally. It gives me a better picture of the whole rather than only half of it ...a more complete picture in my mind.

I called and spoke to my parents about R. I asked them how come my brother isnt going to visit her since she's in a coma. My mother for some reason was surprised. this really confuses me as the letter did mention the word coma. My mom told me she knew my brother's ex was sick but not a coma.

Now that she knew, it became clear she wanted to distance herself from the family. She said its my brother's decision if he wanted to come back to Oregan and see her at the hospital. I was angry at my mother and asked her how she could tell me that she loved R, when she personally felt it was best for my brother to distance himself away from her. She got very angry and didnt really give a reason, but began blaming me for her stress and asking why do i keep calling and badgering her..

Ok first of all, I think you did very good. I have some questions I want to ask you...and also wish you could ask some of them to your parents and brother.

Observation: Your mom used the coma as an excuse for distancing herself from the family? That is exactly what it was, an excuse...she does NOT want her son, your brother in contact with 'R', so she is grasping at anything she can get her hands on. If the word coma was in the letter, then she knew and was faking not knowing.

Question: Ok, but she had already used the distancing excuse before, so she used the coma excuse to make it a more adamant excuse for distancing correct? What is her logic?

Contradiction (your mom): Your mom first wanted to distance herself from their family after 'faking' finding out about the coma...but then after making it clear she did know...then she says your brother can make his own choice AFTER she made her opinion and position very clear about wanting him to distance himself from R.

Question: Have you considered when you ask your brother some question to taunt him a little bit and tell him now, before you answer you better go ask mom to see what she wants you to say? Because clearly, he can't form his own opinions unless he gets mama's ok?

Question: You reminded your mom she said she loved R....., so how does she explain a. this love but turning her back on her? b. how does she stand there with a straight face and say how Indians help the fallen? c. Doesn't this behavior of hers make Indians look bad to her? d. What would she say if a white person did this to one of her sons? e. What reasons does she give for turning her back on a girl in a coma to use as an excuse for your brother not to see her?

Question: Did you tell your mom her attitude toward a girl who is sick SHAMES YOU? You can't feel proud of her? You are shamed of your brother?

You did very well bringing up the love and distancing contradiction your mom does. Notice when you get her on a point how she gets defensive and starte stuttering jibberish.

Suggestions: Tell your mom how bad this makes her look, and how it shows you everything she says to you about how nice Indians are and how they help the fallen, and how good they treat people are lies. Yes, use the word lies!

If she starts to accuse you of badgering her, tell her you learned it from their months of badgering you non-stop for hours each day. IF they think it is ok to badger you and give you their viewpoints about how they feel, you deserve to be able to do the same and tell them exactly how you feel about their 'rotten' behaviour. When your mom tries to blame your gf for your stress...tell your mom she is the guilty one causing you stress.

Question: You said she wants your brother to distance himself away from R. What reasons does she give you for that? What does she say to your brother regarding this?

Question: So, your brother has been ordered to keep his distance from R?

What is his response?

Question: Did your brother ever admit to you he still loves R?....which we all know he does because one, he told her so, two, he stated repeatedly he was self sacrificing himself to marry brown. So, he absolutely loves R.

Question: Have you also been ordered to keep your distance from R and her family?

Question: What does your dad do? Does he just agree with whatever your mom or is he just a silent figure quoting what she has already said?

>>>My brother eventually got on the phone and i asked him why he wasnt seeing her atleast. I reminded him he was with her for 8 years, wanted to marry her at one point, and now at her absolute time of need he wouldnt see her? He was silent for a few seconds, and asked me a question, "Its my decision wheather I want to see her, is it not?" I responded that i could not control what he did so ultimately it is his decision. He said he'll think about it, but he and i both know hes not going. Why would he, my parents wouldnt want him to go, he's "suppose" to be separating himself from her (this is what they are thinking not me). I asked him what reason would he have not to go there. He replied this wasnt concerning me which is when i reminded him that his ex called him her little brother and i saw her as my big sister. That i was involved the day she spoke to me about his relationship, when she helped me with assignments, when we exchanged emails. I asked him again what reasons does he have not to go, and he went off track with the discussion. In the end i told him that he doesnt go it will be a terrible act he'll have to carry the rest of his life, that what he chose to do today can define him as a person or a coward. The conversation went off track real fast and evnetually family members were grabbing the phone and yelling at me. It wasnt a good conversation.

My response: Ok, he got silent at first so you made him think.

Question: Did your brother get on the phone later and start yelling at you too or was it your mom or dad or all of them?

Question: Whey you say your parents wouldn't want your brother to go see her......what are they so afraid of? Isn't this fear they have something you could also use against your brother? What is there to fear from a girl in a coma?

Question: Did your parents know he intended to marry R?

Question: Your brother keeps saying things such as it doesn't concern you...or it is none of your business? How does he justify that when he sticks his nose into YOUR personal business?

Suggestion: Use that against him when he tries to say it isn't your business. Ignore him when he says that.

Suggestion: Are you able to mock your brother? Make fun of him for hanging onto your mom's apron strings? Having to do everything mama tells him? He is VERY prideful and narcissistic, several of us have noticed, which is why we keep saying to hit him in his pride. That is why he is planning to marry brown...PRIDE. So, keep hitting him in his pride?

Suggestion: Keep challenging his character even if it makes him mad...it is the truth. Keep challenging his religion, that is the truth too. Keep bringing up R...., he did get silent when you asked him that, so he had a hard time coming up with an answer. In fact, he came up with NO answer, just an evasion. So, keep pushing!!!

Question: Did you ask your brother why he wouldn't want to see R or did he say?

Question: In what way did your brother go off the track, or do you remember? When he does this, keep in mind he is likely doing it on purpose to distract you..., like that statement he made in front of your gf which had something slightly to do with the topic...so go back to the original question and repeat it when he does this. Skip across his junk talk and go back to the original question. Do you recall anything he said?

It was a good conversation, and a good start to push the heat back onto them where it belongs. You have taken one large step to building your character as a man.

>>>J told me a while back that some people at his situation would jump to their feet to see her. Others cant because they probably are in so much guilt that they couldnt bare to see the person that they possiblity are responsible for taking part of their will to live. There was no question that R was sad.

Question: What do you think it is that prevents your brother from going to see her? Does he even ask about her? Does he even call to check on her?

Question: Did you tell your brother he was responsibile for taking part in her will to live?

Question: Will you take the next step now and confront your brother VERY SOON IN FRONT OF THE BROWN GIRL telling her Your brother said he was only marrying her to self-sacrifice himself but he loves someone else? I tell you, it really does need to happen and THE SOONER THE BETTER. He can complain, but since he did this first to you and your gf...you could call him a hypocrite. He behaves one way toward you, and has other rules for himself. It doesn't work that way. You say you are gone for four months to med school...REACTANT!! YOU NEED TO DO THIS NOW! YOU DON'T HAVE TIME TO SPARE. Four months will make the April ring ceremony you talked about.

>>>>>>Yes, that was my first year in nursing university. Thank God it didnt work out. Age wise your very close =).

Well, good! ...and good for me!

>>>>>> >>>It sounds weird. It sounds strange. But its true. I mean it would have been different if i wasnt away from the home all time time. I come home for 2 weeks and off to medschool for 4 months. So my mom see those 2 weeks as precious. It wasnt like this before when i was in highschool. I would go to the mall, be with friends all the time and they wouldnt know where. But i think ever since i've been with J they've become extra protective, extra attached and very very nosy.

Her sons are grown MEN now. Even legally, she has NO right to tell them who they can see, where they can go, or IF they can leave the house. She truly does want submissive sons...and it is sick. No matter the culture, enslaving the wills of your GROWN kids IS SICK.

I am sorry R isn't doing better...really sorry. Somehow I hoped she would revive and kick some butt! Can you imagine the stir she would create if she went to see your brother?...and your brother HAD to look at her?

>>My aunt told something to my mom that really disturbed her. My mom told me when i was back in Canada, (sorry if i mentiond this before) that my aunt approached her and said soemthign along the lines of 'you know people arent respecting me now but just wait when people find what your children are up to, then the spotlight wont be on me anymore'.

This is curious. Do you think this really happened?

Questions: At what point did your mom tell you this? Was this during your heated phone discussion about R? Were you defending your aunt to your mom so she tried to put your aunt down to distract you? Your mom didn't ask her what she was talking about? Do you believe your mom made this up to scare you? Wouldn't a normal question be what are you talking about?

If it is true, which frankly I am skeptical now because of all of your mom's other lies to suit her own purpose...but, say it is true. It would show that your mom isn't as respected as she might think she is. Your aunt has been outcast and abused according to your own family.....Your brother admitted she has exaggerated or not, he said they all abused her, they all outcast her, they all treat her badly...., and your aunt didn't respect your mom at all or she wouldn't be happy to bring and tell your mom news like that. She was HAPPY to tell your mom this. Why? This shows your aunt has resented the treatment she has been given BY YOUR MOM as the LEADER IN THE FAMILY...THE ONE PEOPLE FOLLOW...AND THAT LEADER WORD IS ACCORDING TO YOUR MOM AND YOUR BROTHER. So, as leader your abuses people and outcasts them.

Suggestions: You should tell your mom maybe she would be treated more respectfully if AS AN INDIAN SHE ACTUALLY DID HELP THE FALLEN INSTEAD OF CONTRIBUTE TO THEIR CONTINUED ABUSE!

I just find this a very odd statement for your aunt to have made to your mom, and your mom didn't bother to question it. I tend to wonder if she is doing that to make you feel guiltier, especially if you defended your aunt to her. Remember, to show your mom if she were kinder to Indians LIKE SHE CLAIMS INDIANS ARE...this wouldn't be happening to her.

>>My mom was spooked by this comment and was paranoid if my aunt knows about my relationship with J. I wont be surprised if she did, its a small world.

QUESTION: If it was just J, why would your aunt have said both of her sons, or rather her "chlidren"...more than one child?

>>(our families always consult with one another concerning problems).

I disagree. They hide the more serious problems and lie to the relatives. It is superficial.

Question: Do you keep shaming your brother for planning to marry a brown girl?

Question: Does your brother know about the letter from R's mom? If no, do you intend to tell him?

Suggestion: I believe you should make your brother feel slighted, or not as important... by your parents because they told you about the letter, he didn't. I think someone else already suggested that but I agree. You need to cause some rifts between your brother and your parents so they don't sit there on the same page. He needs to become angry at your parents....angry, so he doesn't throw his life away thinking it is better to self sacrifice himself for them. He needs to see how sick it is what they are doing to him, and what he is doing to himself and to R.

Also, you do need to do something about his relationship with the brown girl which is based on false information to her. IT IS WRONG.

Question: Were you able to mention to your mom how domestic abuse and violence was higher in more educated, populated, Hindu areas, and not rural like she tried to convince you?

Suggestion: You do need to take to task her views on 'nice Indians' and show her the hypocricy in what she says.

Question: Were you ever able to tell your mom how the white girls stayed but your brother walked away?

Question: Have you thought to challenge your mom about why she is so afraid to ALLOW your brother contact with the white girl?

Question: Have you told your mom the ONLY REASON SHE DOESN'T WANT HIM TO HAVE CONTACT WITH R IS BECAUSE SHE KNOWS HE STILL LOVES HER AND YOUR MOM WANTS YOUR BROTHER TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF FOR HER?

Question: Have you told your mom you think it is an evil thing she is doing to your brother forcing him to marry a colour?

I felt immense pride in you when you told your brother when you said, "In the end i told him that he doesnt go it will be a terrible act he'll have to carry the rest of his life, that what he chose to do today can define him as a person or a coward." HURRAY FOR REACTANT. I know that was tough, but GREAT JOB! I don't see how he can justify this to himself...or before God.

Don't feel guilty. We are here to TRY to help you, not to stress you out like your family and gf are doing. Sometimes it is hard to see for yourself what is so clear to someone else on the outside looking in.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Sparkling

January 14, 2010

I was thinking more about this. Your mom hasn't given your brother ANY CHOICE. She told him it is your life or mine! She wants him going down. You really should shame her about this Reactant...what she is doing on purpose to her son. I believe she knows he loves R...knows it with every fiber of her being and it even scares her for him to go see her while in a coma........what an incredibly evil woman.

January 14, 2010

I haven't been able to read, let alone digest, everything that's been written here, and I might have lost the plot somewhere along the way.

But based on what I have read, I see it like this, Reactant: you've got to decide who you are. Are you an individual, or do you belong to your family? Everything you do from here on out will depend on your answer to that simple question. But when you answer it, be decisive about it. There can be no gray area as far as this is concerned: you're either your own man, or you're forever the young boy in a very big, strong family hierarchy. I see a lot of people being really judgmental about you even entertaining the possibility that you might concede ground and eventually stay within the family; I won't do that, though. But, I will say that you have to make a choice. You can't have it both ways. You either become your own man and you leave the family situation and hope they can come back and meet you at some point, or you accept your place in your family. You either live your life for you and what is important to you, or you live life for your family and what is important to them. You're making this awfully complicated, but it's really as simple as that.

I understand that you don't want to be in this position. I understand that you don't want to choose between "her" and your family, but the way I see it, you're not. You're choosing between your family and your own right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness -- if you believe that you're entitled to those things, that is. If you don't believe that you're entitled to life, liberty, happiness, or fortune, well, that might simplify things a bit. You may not want to be in this position and you might not want to make this decision, but you don't have a choice. You have to make it and you have to make it right now. If you don't, these choices will be made for you whether you're ready for them or not. And once they're made, chances are, there's no way to un-make them. If nothing else, whatever happens, take charge and make your own decision on this. If you decide to reject your family support and make a rough go of it, well, at least it's your decision. If you decide to stick with your family and take one for the team, then again, at least it's your choice. But again, make the choice...soon.

Edited January 14, 2010 by H1N1

January 14, 2010

I haven't been able to read, let alone digest, everything that's been written here, and I might have lost the plot somewhere along the way.

But based on what I have read, I see it like this, Reactant: you've got to decide who you are. Are you an individual, or do you belong to your family? Everything you do from here on out will depend on your answer to that simple question. But when you answer it, be decisive about it. There can be no gray area as far as this is concerned: you're either your own man, or you're forever the young boy in a very big, strong family hierarchy. I see a lot of people being really judgmental about you even entertaining the possibility that you might concede ground and eventually stay within the family; I won't do that, though. But, I will say that you have to make a choice. You can't have it both ways. You either become your own man and you leave the family situation and hope they can come back and meet you at some point, or you accept your place in your family. You either live your life for you and what is important to you, or you live life for your family and what is important to them. You're making this awfully complicated, but it's really as simple as that.

I understand that you don't want to be in this position. I understand that you don't want to choose between "her" and your family, but the way I see it, you're not. You're choosing between your family and your own right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness -- if you believe that you're entitled to those things, that is. If you don't believe that you're entitled to life, liberty, happiness, or fortune, well, that might simplify things a bit. You may not want to be in this position and you might not want to make this decision, but you don't have a choice. You have to make it and you have to make it right now. If you don't, these choices will be made for you whether you're ready for them or not. And once they're made, chances are, there's no way to un-make them. If nothing else, whatever happens, take charge and make your own decision on this. If you decide to reject your family support and make a rough go of it, well, at least it's your decision. If you decide to stick with your family and take one for the team, then again, at least it's your choice. But again, make the choice...soon.

H1N1, I agree with you. I think we all do. Many of us have suggested and said similar to what you said... that he take a stand for himself, make his own decisions about his own future...that he shouldn't allow his family to control HIS CHOICES and a whole lot more, or even move out and tell them it was none of their business.

At first, he wasn't looking at the reality of what they were doing to him or to his brother and he had to first open up his eyes to see.

He was often making excuses for their meanness to people, often believing blatant lies they fed him....and in general he was making excuses for how poorly or even sometimes abusively they treated him, his brother, his aunt, the white girl in the coma and others...Yet, at the same they were telling him what a wonderful family they were, how loving they were compared to other cultures, how in their culture they were the ones who helped the fallen (but they don't), how they protected females in the family (which they don't) and how they were better than caucasians, better then those from other cultures, better than those of other religions, even all priests except his mom's priest were crooked according to his mom.

Those instances when he was making excuses are where people became frustated with him and thought he would fold. His family was often being blatantly abusive to him, to the point of torture going on for day in and day out hours on end in his face lecturing.

But, he isn't making excuses for them now. He seems to want to try to help change a viscious cycle of control and abuse in his family. Since he has to wait eight years before he even marries, now is the time to work for this as well. At least he can work toward opening up their eyes...he has met with some success in this. He hopes to bring about change and fight for change...which is also what I am hoping for within my family. So this same thing doesn't continue...so this cycle of abuse and mindset doesn't continue and be passed on from generation to generation...and so someday MY children don't have to suffer through this because none of us ever had the courage to fight against it and we just kept enabling it to happen. Reactant said even his brother wanted change, (I can't imagine he would be happy feeling like he has to sacrifice himself or die) they just don't want to be the first one.... they want someone else to do it. The complicated part isn't about being with who you love, it is wanting change and trying to find ways which work to create change.. that is the hard part.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Sadgati

January 14, 2010

OP you said

"I have no right in tainting his current relationship with the new Indian girl"

True because that would make you as bad as they are.

">>>My brother takes the position that he's afraid how if a caucasian female entered the family the ramifications it would cause the parents. It doesnt make sense for him to think a white female isnt worthy to enter the famiyl when he wanted his ex-g ® to enter before."

You brother is acting this way and supporting your parents because he doesn't want them to allow what he couldn't have. I believe it is about jealousy more than anything else.

As for your original doubt whether you love this girl. i think you are feeling this because if you lead yourself to believe you don't then it wont hurt as much if your parents end up getting there own way.

What do you think? Have you figured out the true feelings you have for J?

Edited January 14, 2010 by Miad's Princess

January 14, 2010

OP you said
"I have no right in tainting his current relationship with the new Indian girl"
True because that would make you as bad as they are.

">>>My brother takes the position that he's afraid how if a caucasian female entered the family the ramifications it would cause the parents. It doesnt make sense for him to think a white female isnt worthy to enter the famiyl when he wanted his ex-g ® to enter before."

You brother is acting this way and supporting your parents because he doesn't want them to allow what he couldn't have. I believe it is about jealousy more than anything else.

As for your original doubt whether you love this girl. i think you are feeling this because if you lead yourself to believe you don't then it wont hurt as much if your parents end up getting there own way.

What do you think? Have you figured out the true feelings you have for J?

The problem with his relationship with the new Indian girl is that it is false, so it isn't the same thing at all. He told his white gf he loved her still even though he was with the brown girl when he did. Their relationship is already tainted because his brother is by his own words is USING HER TO SACRIFICING HIMSELF for his parents to be with her. He wouldn't choose her..., he wants the white girl who his parents forced him to give up. We are trying to help prevent him from sacrificing himself...and Reactant is fighting FOR his brother and FOR his brother's soul.

His brother also told Reactant he wants change, he just doesn't want to be the first one... He also told Reactant he was being racist, he told his brother it was all about the colour...so, they have already tainted his relationship with the Indian girl because she was chosen ONLY out of the caste system, and ONLY because of her colour, and ONLY because of racism and bigotry....and ONLY because she can increase his parents social status. It is a horribly false relationship, and tainted. His parents want his brother submissive to them, and doesn't want him to do his own thinking. These relationships and arranged marriages are causing the females to become domestically abused and murdered or burned alive by the tens of thousands each year, by their husbands and his parents in increasing numbers because divorce is NOT allowed. It is SUPPOSED to be allowed during extreme cruelty, but it isn't. It is cheaper to murder her than maintain her via divorce. It also doesn't cause the male or his parents any shame for murdering her. Whereas divorce would bring shame. The girl burned alive is the one who is shamed IF she happens to live. Change needs to happen to protect women... It goes deeper than what you might see on the surface of this.

My Indian parents did the exact same thing with my brother. My brother is in love with a white girl, and they forced him to give her up. The Indian girl was chosen by Reactant's parents, and my brother's indian girl was chosen by my parents. Our parents have both of our brothers believing they will be shamed in our families if they marry the white girls they love...and they have Reactant's brother believing their lives will be over...doomsday event I think he said....if he should marry the girl he actually loves. This is a very segregated Indian (India) community (in Canada a free western culture) who allows NO OUTSIDERS in or they will be abused or outcast for allowing it. It is wrong. What they did to the white girlfriend they 'love' is what was wrong and evil... And, I can't begin to tell you how huge it is that they could find no fault with her for all of those years except for her colour white..... They pick apart everyone!! ......she EARNED their trust and respect and they left her alone to die AFTER bragging about how wonderful Indians are at helping the fallen. This brown girl was given a free pass...they barely know her and they are arranging marriages and trying to keep his brother away from the girl they love and he loves until this brown girl can get her also equally greedy parents hands on his brother's qualifications as a future husband applicant. It is ALL about greed, pride, racism..

Edited January 15, 2010 by Sadgati

January 15, 2010

...that he shouldn't allow his family to control HIS CHOICES and a whole lot more, or even move out and tell them it was none of their business.

I'm not necessarily saying he should "be his own man." Sometimes, it's just not that easy. Sometimes, the family ties are too strong, and people aren't comfortable severing them -- and that's fine, as far as I am concerned. But he has to decide one way or the other what it's going to be: is he part of his traditional Indian/non-white family, or is he going to be his own self and take his own path in life, come what may. All I'm saying is, don't pussyfoot around: take one road or the other, but don't go back and forth. Otherwise, he'll just make everyone mad and he'll be miserable.

Personally, if it were me, I would take my chances with the white chick. I would call his family's bluff. I figure that if things work out, he can live with his girlfriend/wife and live happily ever after. If things don't work out, well, he can always go back to his family. Despite what they say now, they'd probably take him back into the family if he broke up with his girl. It's the girl's presence which is causing so many problems.

But again, maybe he just doesn't need the drama. If that's the case, then he just needs to make one final decision...and then don't look back.

January 15, 2010

The problem with his relationship with the new Indian girl is that it is false, so it isn't the same thing at all. He told his white gf he loved her still even though he was with the brown girl when he did. Their relationship is already tainted because his brother is by his own words is USING HER TO SACRIFICING HIMSELF for his parents to be with her. He wouldn't choose her..., he wants the white girl who his parents forced him to give up. We are trying to help prevent him from sacrificing himself...and Reactant is fighting FOR his brother and FOR his brother's soul.

His brother also told Reactant he wants change, he just doesn't want to be the first one... He also told Reactant he was being racist, he told his brother it was all about the colour...so, they have already tainted his relationship with the Indian girl because she was chosen ONLY out of the caste system, and ONLY because of her colour, and ONLY because of racism and bigotry....and ONLY because she can increase his parents social status. It is a horribly false relationship, and tainted. His parents want his brother submissive to them, and doesn't want him to do his own thinking. These relationships and arranged marriages are causing the females to become domestically abused and murdered or burned alive by the tens of thousands each year, by their husbands and his parents in increasing numbers because divorce is NOT allowed. It is SUPPOSED to be allowed during extreme cruelty, but it isn't. It is cheaper to murder her than maintain her via divorce. It also doesn't cause the male or his parents any shame for murdering her. Whereas divorce would bring shame. The girl burned alive is the one who is shamed IF she happens to live. Change needs to happen to protect women... It goes deeper than what you might see on the surface of this.

My Indian parents did the exact same thing with my brother. My brother is in love with a white girl, and they forced him to give her up. The Indian girl was chosen by Reactant's parents, and my brother's indian girl was chosen by my parents. Our parents have both of our brothers believing they will be shamed in our families if they marry the white girls they love...and they have Reactant's brother believing their lives will be over...doomsday event I think he said....if he should marry the girl he actually loves. This is a very segregated Indian (India) community (in Canada a free western culture) who allows NO OUTSIDERS in or they will be abused or outcast for allowing it. It is wrong. What they did to the white girlfriend they 'love' is what was wrong and evil... And, I can't begin to tell you how huge it is that they could find no fault with her for all of those years except for her colour white..... They pick apart everyone!! ......she EARNED their trust and respect and they left her alone to die AFTER bragging about how wonderful Indians are at helping the fallen. This brown girl was given a free pass...they barely know her and they are arranging marriages and trying to keep his brother away from the girl they love and he loves until this brown girl can get her also equally greedy parents hands on his brother's qualifications as a future husband applicant. It is ALL about greed, pride, racism..

Thanks for taking the time to write that, I already knew most of that from reading the past 6 pages

I just wanted to give the OP my opinion and find out more about his own current feelings towards his girl. His brothers relationship doesn't really interest me lol

January 15, 2010

The problem is, i've seen her cry many times at her home. I just didnt know what it was about. I would always ask but no one would tell me. At the time, i was in highschool, and thought it was because she was upset with how her children were turning out. Later on i went to univerity, lived in residence and hardly visited her home since then. Whenever i went to gathers i would see her, but was oblivious to the treatment she was recieving. I do recall one time her head was down when she was speaking to someone but that was a very long time ago. It wasnt until my brother began pointing it out to me did i begin to undrestand. Since then, i've kept a viligent eye on her. So far i havnet seen many cues of her being treated wrongly other than her arriving to our gatherings late and sometimes not at all (not sure if she wasnt invited or had to go to work). I dont know whats truth as my brother has spoke about how shes been treated. Her head isnt always down, thats what my brother told me, i've seen her head down once so far and that was a long time ago.

>>>I'll start telling u more what i said in response to them rather than stating what they said. Some members are veiwing me as a person whose silent in the conversation, so here goes.

I called and spoke to my parents about R. I asked them how come my brother isnt going to visit her since she's in a coma. My mother for some reason was surprised. this really confuses me as the letter did mention the word coma. My mom told me she knew my brother's ex was sick but not a coma.

Now that she knew, it became clear she wanted to distance herself from the family. She said its my brother's decision if he wanted to come back to Oregan and see her at the hospital. I was angry at my mother and asked her how she could tell me that she loved R, when she personally felt it was best for my brother to distance himself away from her. She got very angry and didnt really give a reason, but began blaming me for her stress and asking why do i keep calling and badgering her.

My brother eventually got on the phone and i asked him why he wasnt seeing her atleast. I reminded him he was with her for 8 years, wanted to marry her at one point, and now at her absolute time of need he wouldnt see her? He was silent for a few seconds, and asked me a question, "Its my decision wheather I want to see her, is it not?" I responded that i could not control what he did so ultimately it is his decision. He said he'll think about it, but he and i both know hes not going. Why would he, my parents wouldnt want him to go, he's "suppose" to be separating himself from her (this is what they are thinking not me). I asked him what reason would he have not to go there. He replied this wasnt concerning me which is when i reminded him that his ex called him her little brother and i saw her as my big sister. That i was involved the day she spoke to me about his relationship, when she helped me with assignments, when we exchanged emails. I asked him again what reasons does he have not to go, and he went off track with the discussion. In the end i told him that he doesnt go it will be a terrible act he'll have to carry the rest of his life, that what he chose to do today can define him as a person or a coward. The conversation went off track real fast and evnetually family members were grabbing the phone and yelling at me. It wasnt a good conversation.

J told me a while back that some people at his situation would jump to their feet to see her. Others cant because they probably are in so much guilt that they couldnt bare to see the person that they possiblity are responsible for taking part of their will to live. There was no question that R was sad.

>>>Yes, that was my first year in nursing university. Thank God it didnt work out. Age wise your very close =).

>>>It sounds weird. It sounds strange. But its true. I mean it would have been different if i wasnt away from the home all time time. I come home for 2 weeks and off to medschool for 4 months. So my mom see those 2 weeks as precious. It wasnt like this before when i was in highschool. I would go to the mall, be with friends all the time and they wouldnt know where. But i think ever since i've been with J they've become extra protective, extra attached and very very nosy.

They moved her to into pallative care, her state is still the same.
My aunt, like i said the last relative gathering i went to, she seemed fine. It has only come to my attention about the segregation from my brother. And to think about it, he could have exaggerated about that too. Thers a lot i dont know as i did see her sad and cry over the years but i always assumed it was it was about disciplining her children. I havent seen any recent evidence, oh i remember my mom telling me that my aunt was angry no one came to her to consult problems like they used to and that she complained finding out the news int he family the latest. My aunt told something to my mom that really disturbed her. My mom told me when i was back in Canada, (sorry if i mentiond this before) that my aunt approached her and said soemthign along the lines of 'you know people arent respecting me now but just wait when people find what your children are up to, then the spotlight wont be on me anymore'

My mom was spooked by this comment and was paranoid if my aunt knows about my relationship with J. I wont be surprised if she did, its a small world.

No i can see my aunt, she outcasted on a social sense i believe. She still comes to family functions but not all the time (not sure if wasnt invited or just has to go to work). There are hints of my relatives not respecting her such as her complaining that she finds out news the last and no one coming to her and consulting issues (our families always consult with one another concerning problems). I exaggerated about the head being down too, thats something i heard from my brother but i saw it happen once a few years back.

I feel terrible having you guys wait so long for a reply. I dont know what to do. I feel always behind in my studies and guilty for not posting here enough. I have my first set of exams on monday so i should be able to reply after then. I'm very sorry.

Reactant, Your brother's 'relationship' (I use that word loosely) became a GREAT CONCERN of mine, and I suspect many of the others on here as well based on their comments, when I first saw how malicious and cruel your family was behaving toward you as they were using this 'so-called relationship' as a 'TOOL AGAINST YOU' to cause you shame, to cause you to buckle under their pressure, to cause you to become brainwashed like your brother. They used this false relationship against you to shame you in ways that are just horrible to do to their own son. They used it to put you down, and build your brother up. They used it as an excuse for why they can't live with you but will go to your brother who has THIS BROWN GIRL. They have played every card they can think of to use this false relationship against you. They continue to use it. They have even used this pathetic excuse of a relationship as a tool against white people, and other races; as a tool to use as an example of how brown relationships are better than whites or other races, or even those of other religions, and their list goes on.

They are attempting to proclaim this relationship with the brown girl as more pure and honorable and go on and on about how she will be so much nicer than anyone of any other race or religion. Your brother is marrying her for a sacrifice; they know this but still make all of these false, LYING claims. They go on about how INDIANS are so much better than any other culture, and how much BETTER this brown girl is. But the truth is, that 'relationship' between your brother and the brown girl is CORRUPT and DISHONEST, and BASED ON LIES AND DECEPTIONS...and is immoral.

You are going to allow this marriage to take place unchallenged knowing it is based on lies. If this is a better way...why do they lie? You are going to allow your brother to enter into a wedding with a girl he is lying to. If there is such pride to be found in relationships among Indians only...then why start it off lying? They aren't proud of that or they wouldn't be lying. Isn't it crazy they sneak and lie about their reasons to marry? They don't want any of your relatives to know they have forced him to wed, they have forced him to turn his back on a sick girl they love?

If you fight a battle and someone is 'USING A TOOL AGAINST YOU' lto try to bury you with or take you out with OR dehumanize you with...(LIKE YOUR PARENTS HAVE DONE AND ARE DOING TO BOTH YOU AND YOUR BROTHER) you try to remove the tool from their possession so they can't hit you with it or use it against you anymore. You don't sit idly by and let them/enable them to use it against you. OR ALLOW THEM TO CONTINUE BEATING YOU OVER THE HEAD WITH IT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE....HOW MUCH BETTER THIS RELATIONSHIP IS WITH A BROWN GIRL THAN ONE WITH YOUR WHITE GIRL...... This is the future you are going to have if you let them have this tool to play with. Your wife will be in tears over their slights, over their rudeness, over their cruelty, over their comparisons of her to this brown girl. Your children will watch their own mom be treated as a lesser human being by your mom and your brother, WHILE they watch them BRAG about this wonderful brown girl.....all the while your brother will sit up there on his pompous, sacrificial mountain lording it over you how much better they are than you are. Your children will be compared unfavorably to this brown woman's children....all because of her color! Your parents and brother have to be shamed and challenged NOW for doing this Reactant!! Because, this is your future if you don't do something to prevent it. YOUR BROTHER NEEDS TO FACE THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH THE SHAME IT ACTUALLY IS, NOT WITH A FALSE SENSE OF PRIDE IN HIS HEAD YOUR PARENTS LIED TO HIM ABOUT AND PLACED INSIDE HIS HEAD. THIS BROWN GIRL NEEDS TO KNOW THE TRUTH.

Wouldn't it be rather stupid to HELP them keep that tool so they can keep continuing to whack you over the head with it, or to use it against you with the intentions of trying to bury you with it or use it to bring your fall? They have even told you they will use this against you even after you do marry a white girl.....they will continue TO USE THIS BROWN GIRL AGAINST YOU FOREVER! They have said so.

Your parents and brother have been very calculating and have very deliberately brought this brown girl into this battle to USE against you. THEY USED HER AND YOUR BROTHERS SILLY, CRAZY RELATIONSHIP WITH HER AGAINST YOU! THEY ARE THE ONES WHO BROUGHT HER INTO THE BATTLE TO USE AGAINST YOU!

So you have two choices, let them do it. Or don't let them do it.

This 'relationship' as you have pointed out, is little more than picking out a girl from a lineup. There is no depth or quality to this beneath the surface. But, your brother will now be expected to HAVE SEX with her (this bought for a sacrifice brown girl) when he loves another. He will be expected to have children with her...when he loves another. THIS IS ABUSIVE AND SICKENING!!! They have made your brother a whore when they bought him this woman and ORDERED him to marry her ONLY so they don't get yelled at.

Thie 'relationship' is really NOT about your brother, and it is REALLY NOT YOUR BROTHER'S RELATIONSHIP. It is YOUR PARENT'S RELATIONSHIP. IT IS YOUR BROTHER'S SACRIFICE TO YOUR PARENTS!! Now, if you think it is ok of your parents to pick out your brother's future wife FOR THEMSELVES....IT IS NOT! IF YOU BELIEVE IT IS OK OR MORAL FOR YOUR BROTHER TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF TO YOUR PARENTS IT IS NOT! IF YOU BELIEVE IT IS OK OR MORAL FOR YOUR PARENTS TO ALLOW HIM TO SACRIFICE HIMSELF FOR THEM....IT IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

You need to challenge your brother in front of the brown girl. Because, ultimately it is NOT MORAL OR RIGHT FOR HER TO MARRY HIM EITHER.....NOT WHEN HE IS DREADING THIS SO MUCH HE CONSIDERS IT A SACRIFICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your brother has been treated with great malice by your parents. Their intent is to now treat you with great malice until they can order you who you are to marry. They are using this BROWN girl against you.

This brown girl is the one who has no real basis or foundation for being part of this battle used against you. She is an outside tool they brought in to use against you. You need to attack your brother's relationship, and his reasons for doing it. You have to hit it hard. If you choose not to...you will have to deal with this for the rest of your life. They are also USING her for self gain, she is USING them for self gain. If you want to allow their greed to continue at the expense of everyone concerned that is your choice.

I want you to know you are on the right track when you talked with your family over the phone. Don't stop, keep going! Badger them if you have to because they don't listen when you use logic...so shame them back!!!

You haven't done anything wrong that you deserve to be treated like this. They have.

I had a lot of comments I would like to make about your conversation with them, and questions but will sit and let you answer Sparklings first so you don't have so much information to contend with during your studies.

I do want to know if you thought to tell your family they are NOT helping the fallen, so your mom is a liar? AND, Do you ever quiz or shame your parents for why they are allowing your brother to sacrifice himself? Or ask our question as to what kind of parent would do this to their own son for selfish reasons? Your brother also said that in front of your parents how he HAD to marry brown.

Keep the pressure on your parents and brother....don't let up~

...AND I strongly urge you to challenge your brother in front of this brown girl!!!! She has the right to know she is to be his sacrifice. This is wrong to do to her too. Don't let them continue to paint this whoredom and sacrifice as a pretty picture, because it isn't. You need to look ahead to the future..at the reality of your allowing this 'relationship' to take place. Challenging them takes away the pretense of 'purity' they are trying to make this out to be. IT IS A SIN!!! There is NO pure about any of this.

I want you to clearly understand that if you don't choose to try to fight this and challenge it, you will be enabling and perpetuating this cycle of abuse to continue.

Edited January 15, 2010 by Karena

January 16, 2010

The problem is, i've seen her cry many times at her home. I just didnt know what it was about. I would always ask but no one would tell me. At the time, i was in highschool, and thought it was because she was upset with how her children were turning out. Later on i went to univerity, lived in residence and hardly visited her home since then. Whenever i went to gathers i would see her, but was oblivious to the treatment she was recieving. I do recall one time her head was down when she was speaking to someone but that was a very long time ago. It wasnt until my brother began pointing it out to me did i begin to undrestand. Since then, i've kept a viligent eye on her. So far i havnet seen many cues of her being treated wrongly other than her arriving to our gatherings late and sometimes not at all (not sure if she wasnt invited or had to go to work). I dont know whats truth as my brother has spoke about how shes been treated. Her head isnt always down, thats what my brother told me, i've seen her head down once so far and that was a long time ago.

>>>I'll start telling u more what i said in response to them rather than stating what they said. Some members are veiwing me as a person whose silent in the conversation, so here goes.

I called and spoke to my parents about R. I asked them how come my brother isnt going to visit her since she's in a coma. My mother for some reason was surprised. this really confuses me as the letter did mention the word coma. My mom told me she knew my brother's ex was sick but not a coma.

Now that she knew, it became clear she wanted to distance herself from the family. She said its my brother's decision if he wanted to come back to Oregan and see her at the hospital. I was angry at my mother and asked her how she could tell me that she loved R, when she personally felt it was best for my brother to distance himself away from her. She got very angry and didnt really give a reason, but began blaming me for her stress and asking why do i keep calling and badgering her.

My brother eventually got on the phone and i asked him why he wasnt seeing her atleast. I reminded him he was with her for 8 years, wanted to marry her at one point, and now at her absolute time of need he wouldnt see her? He was silent for a few seconds, and asked me a question, "Its my decision wheather I want to see her, is it not?" I responded that i could not control what he did so ultimately it is his decision. He said he'll think about it, but he and i both know hes not going. Why would he, my parents wouldnt want him to go, he's "suppose" to be separating himself from her (this is what they are thinking not me). I asked him what reason would he have not to go there. He replied this wasnt concerning me which is when i reminded him that his ex called him her little brother and i saw her as my big sister. That i was involved the day she spoke to me about his relationship, when she helped me with assignments, when we exchanged emails. I asked him again what reasons does he have not to go, and he went off track with the discussion. In the end i told him that he doesnt go it will be a terrible act he'll have to carry the rest of his life, that what he chose to do today can define him as a person or a coward. The conversation went off track real fast and evnetually family members were grabbing the phone and yelling at me. It wasnt a good conversation.

J told me a while back that some people at his situation would jump to their feet to see her. Others cant because they probably are in so much guilt that they couldnt bare to see the person that they possiblity are responsible for taking part of their will to live. There was no question that R was sad.

>>>Yes, that was my first year in nursing university. Thank God it didnt work out. Age wise your very close =).

>>>It sounds weird. It sounds strange. But its true. I mean it would have been different if i wasnt away from the home all time time. I come home for 2 weeks and off to medschool for 4 months. So my mom see those 2 weeks as precious. It wasnt like this before when i was in highschool. I would go to the mall, be with friends all the time and they wouldnt know where. But i think ever since i've been with J they've become extra protective, extra attached and very very nosy.

They moved her to into pallative care, her state is still the same.
My aunt, like i said the last relative gathering i went to, she seemed fine. It has only come to my attention about the segregation from my brother. And to think about it, he could have exaggerated about that too. Thers a lot i dont know as i did see her sad and cry over the years but i always assumed it was it was about disciplining her children. I havent seen any recent evidence, oh i remember my mom telling me that my aunt was angry no one came to her to consult problems like they used to and that she complained finding out the news int he family the latest. My aunt told something to my mom that really disturbed her. My mom told me when i was back in Canada, (sorry if i mentiond this before) that my aunt approached her and said soemthign along the lines of 'you know people arent respecting me now but just wait when people find what your children are up to, then the spotlight wont be on me anymore'

My mom was spooked by this comment and was paranoid if my aunt knows about my relationship with J. I wont be surprised if she did, its a small world.

No i can see my aunt, she outcasted on a social sense i believe. She still comes to family functions but not all the time (not sure if wasnt invited or just has to go to work). There are hints of my relatives not respecting her such as her complaining that she finds out news the last and no one coming to her and consulting issues (our families always consult with one another concerning problems). I exaggerated about the head being down too, thats something i heard from my brother but i saw it happen once a few years back.

I feel terrible having you guys wait so long for a reply. I dont know what to do. I feel always behind in my studies and guilty for not posting here enough. I have my first set of exams on monday so i should be able to reply after then. I'm very sorry.

First off, regarding your aunt and your mom...what goes around comes around. For years your mom has shown no mercy to your aunt. Your mom was happy she had someone to look down her snooty nose on and feel superior to. Your mom is happy playing the role of abuser. Your mom expects you and your brother to sacrifice yourselves for her so she can continue to PLAY THIS ABUSIVE ROLE...because it makes HER HAPPY!! Are you going to help her, or stop her?

Your mom's story about your aunt does seem to come at a convenient time for her cause, and your mom does lie profusely when it suits her. If there were family gossip about you and your brother, your mom would be getting yelled at already wouldn't she? Or do they have to wait until they are all together and GANG UP on them like a group of COWARDLY bullies they really are.

Also, your mom used her own victim, the aunt, the one who your mom considers the lowest form of life in your family to be the one who gave her this news. If your brother's statements he gave to you are true regarding your aunt, she would be the LAST ONE IN THE FAMILY TO HAVE ANY NEWS, not the first. If you stood up for your aunt to your mom already, then your mom would be looking for ways to put your aunt back down in your eyes again and take your aunt out of the equation. Which is what you should be doing with your mom, brother and the brown girl...take HER, the brown girl out of the equation as baseless.

Second, Congratulations on having the courage to stand up to your family! It did take courage. From my own experience, it also gets easier over time. You get stronger. You are showing love, not the distorted view of love your parents and brother show. Don't stop now...your work has only just begun. So don't quit or give this up and leave it hanging...keep working it. It is one of the most important things you are going to have to do if you want positive change. You have planted seeds, and they will be thinking about what you said whether or not they admit it.

I am not going to go back looking for all of the exact quotes, but...

-your brother has told you he is scared

-your brother has made it very clear he is sacrificing himself

-your brother is still in love with a white girl

-your brother said he 'had' to marry a brown girl

-your brother feels his own life is worthless if he shames his parents..

-your brother feels death comes before his parents scolding

-your parents are aware he is sacrifing himself...but they don't care about him

-your parents consider their lifestyle MORE IMPORTANT THAN THEIR OWN SON OR HIS LIFE!!!

-your parents and brother feels his sacrifice should become yours as well, so the pressure is on you to follow in his footsteps, and become another non-thinking zombie

-your parents and brother feels his white girlfriend's illness or death is preferable to his parents scolding by relatives

-your parents admit they are racist, how about bigots and segregationists? Do they admit that too?

-

Now that she knew, it became clear she wanted to distance herself from the family. She said its my brother's decision if he wanted to come back to Oregan and see her at the hospital

-

My brother eventually got on the phone and i asked him why he wasnt seeing her atleast. I reminded him he was with her for 8 years, wanted to marry her at one point, and now at her absolute time of need he wouldnt see her? He was silent for a few seconds, and asked me a question, "Its my decision wheather I want to see her, is it not?"

Ok, I didn't even begin to list all of the reasons on here that show how your family is very perverted or how they are forcing your brother and you to go astray from your religion and humanity. I only listed what I could from my memory.

Your brother asked you if it was his decision to see her...He asked you. You probably should have told him no because he can't think for himself without first asking your mom what he should say or do, because he only listens to your mom. Since when did he have a choice or decision to make? Your mom stood there immediately distancing herself and your brother from the white girl giving ALL OF HER REASONS why he can't and shouldn't go to the girl they 'love', who is sick, dying. He has already been told and ordered what he is to do or say.

After your mom makes her position very plain about distancing all of them...and your brother hears her say this to you...She then pretends he has a choice, and your brother follows up and asks you if it is his decision. NO! Your mom DOES ALL OF YOUR BROTHER'S THINKING FOR HIM!! He is NOT even allowed to think for himself. She has him brainwashed.....and he is her zombie. If it were me, I would be pointing out to him in no uncertain terms that he is your mom's brainwashed zombie. Your brother is no man, he is mama's immature little toy. She winds him up and he goes where she directs him. I would certainly be telling my mom and my brother I am ashamed of them. I would also say they don't love or help the fallen as I agree they don't. This is NOT an example of a decent, loving human being. Your mom is SCARED to have your brother contact this white girl or her family because SHE KNOWS he loves her still. There is no other reason why I can see her first reaction was to distance all of you. So, keep after him.

Is this question even realistic given your mom's unreasonable hold on him..., or in fact doesn't your brother have to practically ask him mom's permission before he speaks or even goes to the bathroom? This is an approximately thirty year old man whose values are the death of a white girl is ok whereas his parents being yelled at is worth his sacrifice or his death. Without using J's name, you might want to tell your brother he is scared because of his guilt...scared! Good for you for calling him a coward! You did give him a blow to his pride! Hopefully, his conscience as well.

So, you are happy with this brown relationship and marriage of your brother based on all of these facts regarding this situation...and also the facts Karena and the other posters also outlined for you?

-Is this brown marriage important?

-Is this brown marriage more important than the life of a white girl?

-Is this brown marriage more important than your brother's life?

-Is this brown marriage more important than your life?

-Is this brown marriage something you want to take with you into your future to be used against you or your wife or your children as Karena pointed out?

You have been opening your eyes and seeing how ridiculous these lies are of your moms.

-Why not challenge your brother over and over so you can try to open up his eyes to how controlling and uncaring your mom is?

-Why not challenge your brother so he can see what a FOOL he is for taking on this brown girl as a sacrifice.

-Why not show this brown girl how he is USING her and thinks of her only as a sacrifice he HAS to do?

-Why not challenge your mom with all of her lies to and to your brother with the facts and statistics people have listed here for your perusal.

-Why not challenge them about statistics regarding arranged marriages, divorce, Hindu CASTE SYSTEM ILLEGAL MARRIAGES, AND their well-educated domestic abuse in highly populate India regions where the caste system is still prevalent although illegal.

-Why not challenge them about the false statistics of divorce?

-Why not use all of these arguments against them until you drum it into their heads how WRONG they are.

-Why not challenge your parents on how they don't care about their oldest son? This is a real issue with me. I can't stress to you enough how IMPORTANT THIS IS YOU DON'T ALLOW THEM TO MAKE YOUR BROTHER THEIR LIVING SACRIFICE. You NEED to make your mom see and your brother see how horrible this is. The control your mom has over your brother needs to be broken! If it takes challenging him in front of an Indian girl to do it CHALLENGE HIM! This control she has which makes him believe his death is more important than her being yelled at is completely evil to do to her own son.

-have you shown your brother how often your mom lies?

-Isn't it worth trying to open up your brother's eyes before it is too late for him?

-Isn't it worth showing him how silly he is being?

-Isn't it worth shaming him for so that he can have freedom to make his own choices, and not play zombie to your mom?

-Isn't it worth telling the truth of his actions in front of the brown girl so he can't hide his lies in cahoots with the devil?

-Isn't it worth him seeing he is killing a white girl?

-Isn't it worth your future freedom as well?

-Did you ask about your religious doctrine? What Hindu faith and temple are you a part of? Your mom dismissed the priest you lined up.

Your mom shows conditional love Reactant. This is not the true love of a mother. Her love is NOT unconditional, it is conditional. Do NOT let her do this to your brother. Do not. Doesn't he deserve his freedom from YOUR MOM'S sacrifice of her own son? His sacrifice is what it takes to make her happy.

The most important person to your mom is herself. Her narcissistic self.

Open up your brothers eyes. Don't let him do this. Don't make it easy for him to do this.

Also, you said your aunt seems fine? So your parents would be fine too wouldn't they?

P.S. What reasons does your mom tell you why you should distance yourselves from the white girl? ....she is sick and in a coma? Why is she so scared? She is scared of losing your brother to a white girl isn't she?

Edited January 16, 2010 by Shark

January 17, 2010

Bro,

A pawn is any insignificant PERSON used at another's will. It is also the lowest rank in a game of chess.

Your mom and dad are playing a game of chess using live playing pieces. Your parents and brother consider your parents the king and queen or AKA royalty issuing royal commands upon the players (pawns) beneath them. They can order the outcast, murder or sacrifice of any of the playing pieces they choose to reach their ultimate goal, declare checkmate, crown the brown girl, and win. So, it goes like this:

King and Queen (parents) VERSUS your brother (their pawn) VERSUS the sick white girl he loves (their pawn), VERSUS the brown girl he doesn't love-another pawn, only they consider her of higher value who they want to move into the position of royalty and crowned at the sacrifice of their other two pawns (your bro and white girl). When your brother marries the brown girl they can declare checkmate and the game is over. They won. Your brother is sacrificed because they believe he is a lower rank and unimportant. The white girl is sacrificed because they believe she is a lower rank and unimportant. The brown girl moves up into royalty position of your PARENT'S wife leaving your brother and R their sacrificial pawns with their lives virtually destroyed. ...or even dead in R's case.

Your dad tells you they marry the family. Let your dad marry the brown girl then and leave you and your brother the He** alone. Your brother won't be married in the eyes of God no matter what wedding vow lies he makes. You and Sadgati said your brother's soul will be corrupted even by Indian religion.

Put yourselves in the shoes of R's family. You said you gave them tapes or videos of your brother's voice to play for her. Your brother put R's foot into the grave and turned his back on her; but her family holds out hope of recovery or they wouldn't play the dam* tapes with your brother's voice on them. How do they feel hearing his dam* voice but playing them anyway because they know how much their daughter loved your brother? They have hope his voice will bring her out of it. If they have hope a recording of a voice would help, they know how important he was to her and believe he CAN make a difference. Wouldn't his real time voice be more beneficial? Her family must hate his guts now for how he has treated their daughter, but they keep playing the dam* tapes because THEY love their daughter enough to put her BEFORE themselves and their feelings. Your narcissistic parents do not know how to love, they only arrange the lives of their pawns.

Your mom would rather let your brother (pawn) die (sacrifice him) before she let him anywhere near R. He is her pawn and sacrifice. Your mother would rather let R (pawn) die and sacrifice her before she let your brother go help her..... THE FALLEN! Why not rescue R, your mom's sacrificial pawn, who your mom made your brother sacrifice?

So, what is it going to be? Checkmate game over? Or remove the brown girl pawn from the playing board and save two lives from being sacrificed by your parent's? Three lives are being played with here including the brown girl; or more if you count you and your future.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Monkeeman

January 17, 2010

The problem is, i've seen her cry many times at her home. I just didnt know what it was about. I would always ask but no one would tell me. At the time, i was in highschool, and thought it was because she was upset with how her children were turning out. Later on i went to univerity, lived in residence and hardly visited her home since then. Whenever i went to gathers i would see her, but was oblivious to the treatment she was recieving. I do recall one time her head was down when she was speaking to someone but that was a very long time ago. It wasnt until my brother began pointing it out to me did i begin to undrestand. Since then, i've kept a viligent eye on her. So far i havnet seen many cues of her being treated wrongly other than her arriving to our gatherings late and sometimes not at all (not sure if she wasnt invited or had to go to work). I dont know whats truth as my brother has spoke about how shes been treated. Her head isnt always down, thats what my brother told me, i've seen her head down once so far and that was a long time ago.

>>>I'll start telling u more what i said in response to them rather than stating what they said. Some members are veiwing me as a person whose silent in the conversation, so here goes.

I called and spoke to my parents about R. I asked them how come my brother isnt going to visit her since she's in a coma. My mother for some reason was surprised. this really confuses me as the letter did mention the word coma. My mom told me she knew my brother's ex was sick but not a coma.

Now that she knew, it became clear she wanted to distance herself from the family. She said its my brother's decision if he wanted to come back to Oregan and see her at the hospital. I was angry at my mother and asked her how she could tell me that she loved R, when she personally felt it was best for my brother to distance himself away from her. She got very angry and didnt really give a reason, but began blaming me for her stress and asking why do i keep calling and badgering her.

My brother eventually got on the phone and i asked him why he wasnt seeing her atleast. I reminded him he was with her for 8 years, wanted to marry her at one point, and now at her absolute time of need he wouldnt see her? He was silent for a few seconds, and asked me a question, "Its my decision wheather I want to see her, is it not?" I responded that i could not control what he did so ultimately it is his decision. He said he'll think about it, but he and i both know hes not going. Why would he, my parents wouldnt want him to go, he's "suppose" to be separating himself from her (this is what they are thinking not me). I asked him what reason would he have not to go there. He replied this wasnt concerning me which is when i reminded him that his ex called him her little brother and i saw her as my big sister. That i was involved the day she spoke to me about his relationship, when she helped me with assignments, when we exchanged emails. I asked him again what reasons does he have not to go, and he went off track with the discussion. In the end i told him that he doesnt go it will be a terrible act he'll have to carry the rest of his life, that what he chose to do today can define him as a person or a coward. The conversation went off track real fast and evnetually family members were grabbing the phone and yelling at me. It wasnt a good conversation.

J told me a while back that some people at his situation would jump to their feet to see her. Others cant because they probably are in so much guilt that they couldnt bare to see the person that they possiblity are responsible for taking part of their will to live. There was no question that R was sad.

>>>Yes, that was my first year in nursing university. Thank God it didnt work out. Age wise your very close =).

>>>It sounds weird. It sounds strange. But its true. I mean it would have been different if i wasnt away from the home all time time. I come home for 2 weeks and off to medschool for 4 months. So my mom see those 2 weeks as precious. It wasnt like this before when i was in highschool. I would go to the mall, be with friends all the time and they wouldnt know where. But i think ever since i've been with J they've become extra protective, extra attached and very very nosy.

They moved her to into pallative care, her state is still the same.
My aunt, like i said the last relative gathering i went to, she seemed fine. It has only come to my attention about the segregation from my brother. And to think about it, he could have exaggerated about that too. Thers a lot i dont know as i did see her sad and cry over the years but i always assumed it was it was about disciplining her children. I havent seen any recent evidence, oh i remember my mom telling me that my aunt was angry no one came to her to consult problems like they used to and that she complained finding out the news int he family the latest. My aunt told something to my mom that really disturbed her. My mom told me when i was back in Canada, (sorry if i mentiond this before) that my aunt approached her and said soemthign along the lines of 'you know people arent respecting me now but just wait when people find what your children are up to, then the spotlight wont be on me anymore'

My mom was spooked by this comment and was paranoid if my aunt knows about my relationship with J. I wont be surprised if she did, its a small world.

No i can see my aunt, she outcasted on a social sense i believe. She still comes to family functions but not all the time (not sure if wasnt invited or just has to go to work). There are hints of my relatives not respecting her such as her complaining that she finds out news the last and no one coming to her and consulting issues (our families always consult with one another concerning problems). I exaggerated about the head being down too, thats something i heard from my brother but i saw it happen once a few years back.

I feel terrible having you guys wait so long for a reply. I dont know what to do. I feel always behind in my studies and guilty for not posting here enough. I have my first set of exams on monday so i should be able to reply after then. I'm very sorry.

I should be happy you tried at least once to pressure your brother or your parents, but I feel incredibly disheartened. You never did challenge your brother in front of the brown girl telling her the truth about what your brother and family are doing. Or tell her he loves another, or tell her your brother is self-sacrificing himself to marry her, or tell her your brother said he HAD to marry her because she is brown, or tell her he said the only reason he was doing this was he was scared, or tell her his parents brainwashed him into thinking their lives would be over because they no longer have self status, or tell her your parents don't consider your brother's life as important as their own.

Is this right to allow him to do this to her?

If BG (brown girl) left your brother, he wouldn't have any excuses left not to visit or talk to his love, R or try to help her out. He could even call her and talk so she could listen. But, your mom won't let him. Why, oh why are you so worried about the feelings of a brown girl your brother doesn't even want, and a white girl is in a coma and you wait......and wait....for what? You want BG to bond further with your brother as more time passes? What are you waiting for? R to die? How much time do you think you have?

Look how much time has passed since you first posted, or even mentioned R's condidtion. April is around the corner. Why don't you have the same sense of urgency about R's life that I do? I don't even know her and you said you loved her and she was your sister. You tried once, but now she is put on the back burner again while everything else around you is more important than her life once again. I am not attempting to minimize your life as unimportant, but come on now.., realistically, how much longer does she have that you think you can keep putting everything else ahead of her as being a more important use of your time? Or putting BG's feelings into this as more important than R's life?

Won't R's body and muscle tissue start to freeze up the longer it takes? Isn't she now more susceptible to lung diseases or pneumonia? You want to be a doctor so come on now......HELP HER! She is in an emergency, a crisis. For God's sake! Why does she get put on hold? There are no pause buttons.......

January 18, 2010

Everyone in this thread is focusing on too much on the outsiders of this subject, like the aunt, the brothers ex, the brothers current gf etc.

The OP originally posted looking for advice about his life his relationship, too much focus is getting place on the other people, sure his mum and dad should be discussed in ways to help the OP overcome his family problems....

BUT why in hell are people posting A4 size posts regarding his aunts life his brothers ex and gf current life....Not just that you are repeating yourself in every post you make. These posts whether you realise it or not are going way off track which I personally don't think is neccessary.

Concentrate on the OP and his personal life in order to give him the best advce.

January 18, 2010

Everyone in this thread is focusing on too much on the outsiders of this subject, like the aunt, the brothers ex, the brothers current gf etc.

The OP originally posted looking for advice about his life his relationship, too much focus is getting place on the other people, sure his mum and dad should be discussed in ways to help the OP overcome his family problems....

BUT why in hell are people posting A4 size posts regarding his aunts life his brothers ex and gf current life....Not just that you are repeating yourself in every post you make. These posts whether you realise it or not are going way off track which I personally don't think is neccessary.

Concentrate on the OP and his personal life in order to give him the best advce.

Because he ASKED us to. He asked us to do the research...he ASKED us to. And, for your information in an INDIAN family and culture...These isssues ARE THE REASONS his family won't let him marry a white girl. They are ALL CONNECTED and they ALL have to do with the issue and ths subject whether you can see it or NOT. And last...because we care!

Also, if you go back what you refer to as his original posting, THESE ISSUES ARE BEING USED AGAINST HIM AS TO WHY HE CAN'T MARRY A WHITE GIRL...BECAUSE OF HIS BROTHER IS A BIG ONE- BECAUSE OF HOW THEY TREAT HIS AUNT SO THEY DON'T WANT TREATED THAT WAY IF HE MARRIES A WHITE GIRL. He also stated he wanted to work on racism issues in his family because he saw a lot of wrongs being committed and he asked for our help. Each issue he tackles takes away one argument out of his family's list of weapons to use against him. If you don't understand the correlation...Reactant does.

"Concentrate on the OP and his personal life in order to give him the best advce."

These issues ARE part of his personal life...and ALL correlated.

Edited January 18, 2010 by Sadgati

January 18, 2010

Everyone in this thread is focusing on too much on the outsiders of this subject, like the aunt, the brothers ex, the brothers current gf etc.

The OP originally posted looking for advice about his life his relationship, too much focus is getting place on the other people, sure his mum and dad should be discussed in ways to help the OP overcome his family problems....

BUT why in hell are people posting A4 size posts regarding his aunts life his brothers ex and gf current life....Not just that you are repeating yourself in every post you make. These posts whether you realise it or not are going way off track which I personally don't think is neccessary.

Concentrate on the OP and his personal life in order to give him the best advce.

Hey everyone,

i'm sorry for the late response. I'm leaving for the airport in 6 hrs from now. The last few days have been very hectic from going to doctors offices, having more arguments with parents, packing up to leave the country and finding time to see J. I have a long flight and a boat to catch and will reach my home on sunday 10pm. i will then start to reply. atleast at school i wont have my parents making my day more exhausting. I'm very very very sorry for not replying on a timely basis. Thanks again for being there. I've asked my friends for advice in the past and none of them were as through as every member here, i really want to give u guys a hug!

Thank u thank u.

This is Reactant's opinion about our advice!!!!!!! So, why don't you let Reactant decide for himself, clearly he appreciates our time and efforts.

January 19, 2010

Everyone in this thread is focusing on too much on the outsiders of this subject, like the aunt, the brothers ex, the brothers current gf etc.

The OP originally posted looking for advice about his life his relationship, too much focus is getting place on the other people, sure his mum and dad should be discussed in ways to help the OP overcome his family problems....

BUT why in hell are people posting A4 size posts regarding his aunts life his brothers ex and gf current life....Not just that you are repeating yourself in every post you make. These posts whether you realise it or not are going way off track which I personally don't think is neccessary.

Concentrate on the OP and his personal life in order to give him the best advce.

Duh!...this is about his personal life and the cause and effect this has on him. They use this shi*t on him to control him. Speaking of control issues, YOU have control issues. Coming in here and flipping out like that, yelling because we don't do things the way you want us to. You chose to come in here and read, nobody made you.

Reactant said he doesn't know how he feels about his gf so that part is on hold until he figures it out. NOW he wants help fighting this for the principle of the thing. This IS the principle. They have a noose strung tight around his brother's neck so they are using that noose as a role model to tighten it around Reactant's neck, and that noose caused a choke hold on the white girl's neck. Someone called it a viscious cycle of abuse, and it is all in the family!! PERSONAL family issues. Reactant has to live with that shi* and let them do it, move out, or try to stop it. He doesn't have any other options.

Anything a poster thinks important enough to mention is subject and open to our opinions just as in any other thread. Everything we talk about is being used against Reactant or held against him by his PERSONAL family. The only way to loosen the choke hold they have on that noose around their necks is to cut it away one thread at a time, fray it away until all their arguments against him go down the toilet where they belong. Since they claim they help the fallen and his gf wouldn't because she is white, and no other cultures do just the superior indians, then let them put their money where their mouth is and help the fallen. Put up or shut up.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Monkeeman

January 19, 2010

"Concentrate on the OP and his personal life in order to give him the best advce."

These issues ARE part of his personal life...and ALL correlated.

That may be, and the discussion that's ensued may be helpful to the OP, however, the majority of what's being discussed has nothing to do with a LDR which is the purpose of this forum.

Might be better at this point for all concerned for the discussion to be continued in another forum (there is a "Family" forum where the purpose is to discuss familial issues, for example, or even one dedicated to "Abuse").

I don't believe anyone is questioning whether your discussion isn't valuable -- just that topics being discussed aren't on-topic for this particular forum. Do you see what I mean?

All the best,

TMichaels

January 19, 2010

That may be, and the discussion that's ensued may be helpful to the OP, however, the majority of what's being discussed has nothing to do with a LDR which is the purpose of this forum.

Might be better at this point for all concerned for the discussion to be continued in another forum (there is a "Family" forum where the purpose is to discuss familial issues, for example, or even one dedicated to "Abuse").

I don't believe anyone is questioning whether your discussion isn't valuable -- just that topics being discussed aren't on-topic for this particular forum. Do you see what I mean?

All the best,

TMichaels

Actually, it is very clear that is exactly what she was questioning when she came in here swearing at everyone and ordering us around...her concern was NOT topics and they were never mentioned by Miad; however you are not as your comment was constructive and I for one appreciate the tones. This still is LDR as it does still concern how best to help him and his gf given the distance involved.., and it is true their issue is also entwined up with family..so, it is both. It is up to Reactant if he wants the topic moved, not us. We are here to try to help him, because that is what he is asking of us.

My life is a mess.

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