How many WAWs have regretted their decision?

[LisaUk]

Plus the "until death do us part..." NEVER ever sat well with me.

 

I needed the validation of marriage 20 years ago. I don't think I need that any more.

 

Maybe because deep down, I knew I might change in ways that would affect the marriage.

 

I guess this says it all.

 

I know what I am posting will not go down well with you, b/c I do not think you are able to be open to it as it would involve you having to look deep within yourself and seeing somethings that you may not necessarily like. However, I am going to say it, please understand it is said from a good place, to try and help, not hurt you.

 

The quotes above, aren't they demonstartions of the point I made on your other thread? You are essentially saying that you went into your marriage thinking you might change and it not work out, that you are OK with that as a concept b/c that's what happens in life? Then you go on to say that the marriage has served it's purpose for you "I needed the validation etc".

 

Sumdude- totally!

[Angel1111]

OK - I can see your side. In my case the WAW never tried.

 

Not to threadjack this post but, FL98, I think you would do yourself a huge favor to recognize that although the marriage might've been good from your perspective, and that you might've loved her despite her flaws, those perspectives are not hers. In her mind, it was not a great marriage, in her mind, the flaws were more outstanding than the good things, in her mind, the history between the two of you isn't as important to her as the years that are left in her life to explore new things.

 

Whether she's misguided or not isn't relevant - that is the way she feels and thinks. My ex did everything in his power to get me back except the things he needed to do to keep me. He was totally convinced that I was screwed up in my head. But the majority of the people around him agree with me that he's a complete control freak and he alienates most people around him. I couldn't change his reality, and he couldn't change mine. Hence, very high incompatibility. You keep thinking that your 'reality' about the marriage is the only reality. It's not. She wasn't happy - for whatever reason. And trying to make her see your reality is the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall. And the result will be the same. That's the thing you need to wrap your mind around. And the sad part is that it probably wasn't all about you. Sometimes people can be so wounded and scarred that they can't be healed, there's nothing we can do. Once you do come to terms with this, maybe you'll find some peace.

Edited December 5, 2009 by Angel1111

[LisaUk]

Not to threadjack this post but, FL98, I think you would do yourself a huge favor to recognize that although the marriage might've been good from your perspective, and that you might've loved her despite her flaws, those perspectives are not hers. In her mind, it was not a great marriage, in her mind, the flaws were more outstanding than the good things, in her mind, the history between the two of you isn't as important to her as the years that are left in her life to explore new things.

 

Whether she's misguided or not isn't relevant - that is the way she feels and thinks. You keep thinking that your 'reality' about the marriage is the only reality. It's not. She wasn't happy - for whatever reason. And trying to make her see your reality is the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall. And the result will be the same. That's the thing you need to wrap your mind around. And the sad part is that it probably wasn't all about you. Sometimes people can be so wounded and scarred that they can't be healed, there's nothing we can do. Once you do come to terms with this, maybe you'll find some peace.

 

Angel, two lines in that made a lot of sense to me, "Sometimes people can be so wounded and scarred that they can't be healed, there's nothing we can do." This is my ex, whi said "I have figured out that b/c of my upbringing ....." the details don't matter, essentially he choose to walk rather than face his own issues, so thank you for posting it suddenly made something clearer to me. In FL98 case though, I really do think his wife has just lost it completely, she has gone off with an 18 year old child, this is MLC, no doubt about it and nothing to do with you FL98 at all.

[curiou]

Not to threadjack this post but, FL98, I think you would do yourself a huge favor to recognize that although the marriage might've been good from your perspective, and that you might've loved her despite her flaws, those perspectives are not hers. In her mind, it was not a great marriage, in her mind, the flaws were more outstanding than the good things, in her mind, the history between the two of you isn't as important to her as the years that are left in her life to explore new things.

 

Whether she's misguided or not isn't relevant - that is the way she feels and thinks. My ex did everything in his power to get me back except the things he needed to do to keep me. He was totally convinced that I was screwed up in my head. But the majority of the people around him agree with me that he's a complete control freak and he alienates most people around him. I couldn't change his reality, and he couldn't change mine. Hence, very high incompatibility. You keep thinking that your 'reality' about the marriage is the only reality. It's not. She wasn't happy - for whatever reason. And trying to make her see your reality is the equivalent of banging your head against a brick wall. And the result will be the same. That's the thing you need to wrap your mind around. And the sad part is that it probably wasn't all about you. Sometimes people can be so wounded and scarred that they can't be healed, there's nothing we can do. Once you do come to terms with this, maybe you'll find some peace.

 

An illuminating post, Angel.

[FeelingLonely98]

Angel, two lines in that made a lot of sense to me, "Sometimes people can be so wounded and scarred that they can't be healed, there's nothing we can do." This is my ex, whi said "I have figured out that b/c of my upbringing ....." the details don't matter, essentially he choose to walk rather than face his own issues, so thank you for posting it suddenly made something clearer to me. In FL98 case though, I really do think his wife has just lost it completely, she has gone off with an 18 year old child, this is MLC, no doubt about it and nothing to do with you FL98 at all.

 

I know that Lisa.

 

Angel1111 - My STBXW said to me about a month after d-day "Now you are the perfect husband, the husband I always wanted. So why didn't she come home?

 

Also, I do believe much of what you said.

- in her mind, the flaws were more outstanding than the good things

- She wasn't happy - for whatever reason.

- Sometimes people can be so wounded that they can't be healed

However, she never let me know there was any problem. Until the last 3-4 weeks before d-day she acted as normal as for the entire 7 yr. M. Would have been nice to know. Oh and she said there were only 2 flaws and she agreed with me that there were hundred of "good things".

 

the history between the two of you isn't as important to her as the years that are left in her life to explore new things.

 

How does she know if the rest of her life will be better with me or "exploring"? She is not exploring now. She is commiting adultery.

Edited December 5, 2009 by FeelingLonely98

[LisaUk]

I know that Lisa.

 

Angel1111 - My STBXW said to me about a month after d-day "Now you are the perfect husband, the husband I always wanted. So why didn't she come home?

 

Also, I do believe much of what you said.

- in her mind, the flaws were more outstanding than the good things

- She wasn't happy - for whatever reason.

- Sometimes people can be so wounded that they can't be healed

However, she never let me know there was any problem. Until the last 3-4 weeks before d-day she acted as normal as for the entire 7 yr. M. Would have been nice to know. Oh and she said there were only 2 flaws and she agreed with me that there were hundred of "good things".

 

 

 

How does she know if the rest of her life will be better with me or "exploring"? She is not exploring now. She is commiting adultery.

 

Hi FL98, just noticed that the last quote from "me" above, I didn't write?! Don't know how that happened? Just wanted to say again, your w has completly lost it.

[FeelingLonely98]

Hi FL98, just noticed that the last quote from "me" above, I didn't write?! Don't know how that happened? Just wanted to say again, your w has completly lost it.

 

That was weird. It was a response to an Angel1111 comment. Oh well, we agree on my W completely flipping her lid, huh?

[Angel1111]

That was weird. It was a response to an Angel1111 comment. Oh well, we agree on my W completely flipping her lid, huh?

 

And that's my whole point - your reality and her reality are so far apart that you're like earth and she's like mars; two different worlds that will never meet. You continue to try to make sense of it when, to her, it makes perfect sense. If she didn't tell you about what the problems were, then that's either because she didn't want to fix the marriage, or because she didn't believe it was fixable. Whatever the reason, the end result is the same - she left.

[You Go Girl]

I had a MLC and left my first marriage. This crisis was instigated by my then H. We got the internet, and for the next 8 months until I flipped my lid he spent every possible waking hour surfing porn, when before we had the internet he was busy golfing, fishing, fixing things around the house, doing stable sane things.

I then found the internet too. Instead of surfing porn, I found chat and men who would talk to me, something my xH wasn't big on-long indepth conversation.

Do I think I handled his porn obsession badly? Yes, of course there were better ways to handle it, but at the time, I didn't have those skills and reacted emotionally.

Will you regret leaving your H? Well it really boils down to this--you'll create a new life, with a new man eventually. It won't necessarily be a better life, just a different life.

I agree with some words from a Dan Fogelberg song though-"changing faces in the middle of a dream gets you old".

[SimplyBeingLoved]

I have noticed an interesting phenomenon. I remember this phenomenon from a long time ago with a completely different situation.

 

The very act of seriously focusing on a decision... telling my husband I am unhappy, that I have been contemplating a separation... changes the energy, the "landscape."

 

Just my detailed imagining of moving out has released and relieved things somewhat, so I no longer feel so trapped and stuck. Which ironically, makes me want to see how the "new" landscape looks and feels, before taking any further action.

 

As well, since I have really nothing to "lose"... I have started being more honest with hubby. I told him today some things he does that upsets me. (Nearly all communication he initiates with me has to do with "chores, kids, and house" stuff, in a very sort of dull way). I don't know why I didn't tell him how that upset me before. I guess I wasn't fully conscious of how it effected me. But now that the cat is out the bag, I feel more free to be up front with him.

 

I'm not sure what will happen but he does deserve to know what's going on. The counseling hasn't really worked for us so far because it has geared toward "spend time together and try to fall in love first and deal with issues later." I understand the approach but it wasn't working for me.

[Angel1111]

I agree with some words from a Dan Fogelberg song though-"changing faces in the middle of a dream gets you old".

 

A Fogelberg quote! Man, I loved him. "Changing horses in the middle of a stream gets you wet and sometimes cold..." You Go Girl, did you know that Dan died? Dec 16 will be the 2-yr anniversary of his death. I just found out about it about a month ago. I'm heartbroken about it.

[floridapad]

I have noticed an interesting phenomenon. I remember this phenomenon from a long time ago with a completely different situation.

 

The very act of seriously focusing on a decision... telling my husband I am unhappy, that I have been contemplating a separation... changes the energy, the "landscape."

 

Just my detailed imagining of moving out has released and relieved things somewhat, so I no longer feel so trapped and stuck. Which ironically, makes me want to see how the "new" landscape looks and feels, before taking any further action.

 

As well, since I have really nothing to "lose"... I have started being more honest with hubby. I told him today some things he does that upsets me. (Nearly all communication he initiates with me has to do with "chores, kids, and house" stuff, in a very sort of dull way). I don't know why I didn't tell him how that upset me before. I guess I wasn't fully conscious of how it effected me. But now that the cat is out the bag, I feel more free to be up front with him.

 

I'm not sure what will happen but he does deserve to know what's going on. The counseling hasn't really worked for us so far because it has geared toward "spend time together and try to fall in love first and deal with issues later." I understand the approach but it wasn't working for me.

 

 

SBL I'm glad your communicating with your H but I'm even more glad that your getting in touch with yourself and thoughts and emotions. Please keep the heart open (as much as you can) for the H. You are just starting the process of discovering yourself and what makes you happy. Don't assume that he can't be that person because he hasn't been in the past. Perhaps you have just not communicated to him properly or didn't know what to communicate because you didn't know yourself.

 

One suggestion though on communicating your "displeasures" with him. Be very understanding that you may hurt him (which is OK) but know that he may get defensive. Don't be defensive back. Listen! There may be things HE has to say that you can learn about yourself. Be open to it.

 

Also let him know the things you DO like or the things you ONCED like that you miss. Try to remember those things and feel it before you communicate. If you can't right now then wait a week and think of the good things. They are there.

 

Please don't be argumentative or defensive if he takes a shot back at you, which he probably will. Thats human nature. With him or any other guy you may be with.

[FeelingLonely98]

And that's my whole point - your reality and her reality are so far apart that you're like earth and she's like mars; two different worlds that will never meet. You continue to try to make sense of it when, to her, it makes perfect sense. If she didn't tell you about what the problems were, then that's either because she didn't want to fix the marriage, or because she didn't believe it was fixable. Whatever the reason, the end result is the same - she left.

 

VERY true ... Good point. She really does think what she's doing makes perfect sense - thinks this is the only option for her.

Edited December 6, 2009 by FeelingLonely98

[aeh]

I have noticed an interesting phenomenon. I remember this phenomenon from a long time ago with a completely different situation.

 

This is crazy. I just had a similar epiphany yesterday myself. Remembering a college boyfriend who had hurt me so much and I eventually fell out of love with but remained best friends with and still had sex with but knew in my heart that it was "over".

 

The very act of seriously focusing on a decision... telling my husband I am unhappy, that I have been contemplating a separation... changes the energy, the "landscape."

 

Am consumed with this upcoming decision of whether to stay or go. So many hurts and transgressions--he cheated and now I have cheated--am not involved with anyone else currently but am very curious about other prospects out there.. Had a discussion with my H about this a few times and when I do, I always feel better because it's like letting some pressure off, feeling less trapped, less forced into the decision to stay now that HE had decided that I am the only woman for him

 

Just my detailed imagining of moving out has released and relieved things somewhat, so I no longer feel so trapped and stuck. Which ironically, makes me want to see how the "new" landscape looks and feels, before taking any further action.

 

As well, since I have really nothing to "lose"... I have started being more honest with hubby. I told him today some things he does that upsets me. (Nearly all communication he initiates with me has to do with "chores, kids, and house" stuff, in a very sort of dull way). I don't know why I didn't tell him how that upset me before. I guess I wasn't fully conscious of how it effected me. But now that the cat is out the bag, I feel more free to be up front with him.

 

I'm not sure what will happen but he does deserve to know what's going on. The counseling hasn't really worked for us so far because it has geared toward "spend time together and try to fall in love first and deal with issues later." I understand the approach but it wasn't working for me.

 

Same thing for me...I read books on love and forgiveness--how love is a choice, not a feeling...how to rekindle love, and yet the words just make me angry....it all feels so forced

[EcstasyX6]

I can't offer advice as I'm in the same boat as you are, but probably farther along. I've asked my husband for a divorce, have been living in separate bedrooms for months, and have agreed to see a mediator in January(after the Holidays I suggested for everyone's benefit).

 

We've had therapy a couple of times for many sessions. I somewhat disagree with this idea of love is an action not a feeling. I know of couples who have been married longer than I have(17 years), and still are lovey dovey, have regular sex, and run the marriage like a well oiled machine. You're supposed to want your partner. Thats what I want in my life and also, not a one-sided marriage where I do everything. My husband followed the bring home the bacon model, and for most of the marriage would come home and get on the internet(porn & news junkie), and/or watch TV, which is fine during the week, but hey buddy, not for weekends too. My model was partnering, and ample sex(we're not well matched here), an an active lifestyle. I've seen many men lead in their homes, and do the manly stuff and at least cleaning up after himself, keep up with your fitness and friends(have somewhat of a life of your own as I do). Forgive, but that's what I want from my husband. I've told him over the years. He chose to ignore me,so now, I'm done.

 

Now, after all these years, he's running around like a chicken with his head cut off, suddenly helping the kids and spending more time with them. My hearts been out the door for awhile. He's a nice guy and a good father, but I've been feeling 'on my own' for too long. When a person doesn't meet you half way, whatever your definition is of half way, you can emotionally detach from them. No, I don't expect to be head over heels, in the clouds or feeling like a story book romance, I just want a partnership.

 

FL-He was happy. I was not. Am I rewriting the marriage story? Absolutely not. Our stories are different. We got along fine, he'd buy me 'stuff', but never got the heart of what I wanted/needed from a man. I was never in love from the start, but I thought our friendship would grow into something more. It never did.

 

I wish him the best, and I think I'll be happier on my own in the future with or without a man in my life. Who knows? Maybe the grass won't be greener on the other side, but as someone mentioned earlier, I won't have another kid to clean up after and lead.(2 instead of 3)

[isthisallthereis]

EcstasyX6: You are writing my life story almost. I will say that I was in love with my husband when we married, 20 years ago. My husband has not been there as a partner for me for years. I do almost all of the work (both at home and at the office), and I am tired of it. I'm tired of him watching me work, watching me carry heavy boxes up and down, in our house. I've talked and begged and pleaded, and now, nothing. Our daughter will be heading to college Fall of 2010, and I think about not having a child to clean up after once she's gone.

 

Sorry to highjack this thread but ecstasy's post spoke to me.

[BearMox]

As well, since I have really nothing to "lose"... I have started being more honest with hubby. I told him today some things he does that upsets me. (Nearly all communication he initiates with me has to do with "chores, kids, and house" stuff, in a very sort of dull way). I don't know why I didn't tell him how that upset me before. I guess I wasn't fully conscious of how it effected me. But now that the cat is out the bag, I feel more free to be up front with him.

If I was making bets I'd say you are 1 to 2 years from divorce unless you guys do something. Thank you for being honest despite dissent, it shows maturity (imo). This place would be drab without it (i'm new here btw).

 

You both need to feel loved and believe in each others love despite your individual performance. best thing to do is figure out how do get every string detached (nothing "off the table", both parties willing to change anything etc) and get to a good counselor for a tune up. I think most counselors will say if a couple can master "nothing hidden" healthy (noncritcal, judgemental etc) communication you'll make it just fine. Keep up the good work. He'll probably be much slower to return, get a counselor to help him there.

 

Last thing I'll say is we men are slow. Don't tell him once you want to work on it, tell him multiple times. Be the one to go to counseling if he is real slow. Let him do the steering, but don't be afraid to point where he needs to steer too.

[CBIIS1]

My wife walked away and I know she isn't coming back. I did most of the housework, I cared for the kids, she said I was 110%. She had been with me 26 years. She was a boring person to be with in the end, sex was ok but I could pass. She had no life other than her stressfull job which she could never stop talking about. The kids want to stay with me because of my energy and positive attitude. She's always a downer to be with. I don't think she's much happier now. The novelty of walking away is starting to phase out. Its been five months. I made a new friend some time ago and I really enjoy my time with her. She's ten years younger, prettier, fun, loves to kid around. She's not insecure and jealous like the ex was. I had two wonderful kids with the ex but I'm kinda over her. She's so damn evil and bitter now. I wasn't perfect, by far, but I've stopped blaming myself. It just seems like I'm happier now even though seeing her go hurt me so much initially.

[soheartbroken]

My wife walked away and I know she isn't coming back. I did most of the housework, I cared for the kids, she said I was 110%. She had been with me 26 years. She was a boring person to be with in the end, sex was ok but I could pass. She had no life other than her stressfull job which she could never stop talking about. The kids want to stay with me because of my energy and positive attitude. She's always a downer to be with. I don't think she's much happier now. The novelty of walking away is starting to phase out. Its been five months. I made a new friend some time ago and I really enjoy my time with her. She's ten years younger, prettier, fun, loves to kid around. She's not insecure and jealous like the ex was. I had two wonderful kids with the ex but I'm kinda over her. She's so damn evil and bitter now. I wasn't perfect, by far, but I've stopped blaming myself. It just seems like I'm happier now even though seeing her go hurt me so much initially.

 

Interesting...sounds like you came out okay CBII. Good to hear a positive post about someone recovering after being left.

 

Sorry to threadjack. There is some good discussion on here.

 

I do applaud many here who have at least told their spouses about issues before leaving (my ex-partner never sat me down to tell me what things were bothering her before she left).

 

Do you think you told your spouse/ex-spouse in time though? I mean, were you basically ready to leave before you really, seriously, communicated the issues? Not trying to be inflammatory here. Truly wondering.

[LakesideDream]

Well now... I'm over eight years out from a prototype WAW ... and I think I'm pretty aware of both what happened, and what has happened since.

 

First my ex married her AP/Life long lover. Presumably they are living happily ever after. I have no knowledge one way or the other. My losses? My marriage, my wife, and a close relationship with my adult children.

 

Me... pretty much done at 58. Risk adverse. Cynical. Wary. Literally afraid to extend myself into anyones life. It's taken me awhile to admit this too. While not exactly a recluse, I'm getting more and more "homebody-ish".

 

Beware. It's not always easy after being married for 25 years, believing it was for life.

[SimplyBeingLoved]

An update.

 

We had an anniversary this week. We went out to a show and then had an early dinner. It was nice. He said he had a good time and I did too. Notably absent was touching each other though.

 

We did have a brief conversation that helped me continue to see that we are on very different wavelengths in regard to what we want and need from a relationship or marriage. Basically... he doesn't really NEED much from a marriage. He says he loves me and I know he respects me. And we don't have outward conflict. And... that seems to be enough for him.

 

Romantic love? Not a need of his. Physical touch? Not really a need. Sex? He can handle through porn. Emotional interaction? Not really a need.

 

I say this because I told him the last 4-5 years we'd been living a "roommate" marriage. He said he did notice things had changed, but since I seemed to be happy with things, then he was happy too. (Actually I wasn't happy but wasn't expressing my needs, mainly because it took me so long to figure things out.)

 

Basically he is happy with a marriage of "co-existence." And I want a marriage of "interaction." My thought is, if one doesn't need love, touch, sex, emotional connection from one's spouse... why the heck even be married? I want someone who is not just happy with having me around, but actively wants/needs to be with me. There is a big difference.

[soheartbroken]

Well now... I'm over eight years out from a prototype WAW ... and I think I'm pretty aware of both what happened, and what has happened since.

 

First my ex married her AP/Life long lover. Presumably they are living happily ever after. I have no knowledge one way or the other. My losses? My marriage, my wife, and a close relationship with my adult children.

 

Me... pretty much done at 58. Risk adverse. Cynical. Wary. Literally afraid to extend myself into anyones life. It's taken me awhile to admit this too. While not exactly a recluse, I'm getting more and more "homebody-ish".

 

Beware. It's not always easy after being married for 25 years, believing it was for life.

 

I'm curious. Do you miss her and want her back? Or are you "over" her but just lonely?

[Gunny376]

Well now... I'm over eight years out from a prototype WAW ... and I think I'm pretty aware of both what happened, and what has happened since.

 

First my ex married her AP/Life long lover. Presumably they are living happily ever after. I have no knowledge one way or the other. My losses? My marriage, my wife, and a close relationship with my adult children.

 

Me... pretty much done at 58. Risk adverse. Cynical. Wary. Literally afraid to extend myself into anyone's life. It's taken me awhile to admit this too. While not exactly a recluse, I'm getting more and more "homebody-ish".

 

Beware. It's not always easy after being married for 25 years, believing it was for life.

 

 

We did have a brief conversation that helped me continue to see that we are on very different wavelengths in regard to what we want and need from a relationship or marriage. Basically... he doesn't really NEED much from a marriage. He says he loves me and I know he respects me. And we don't have outward conflict. And... that seems to be enough for him.

 

Romantic love? Not a need of his. Physical touch? Not really a need. Sex? He can handle through porn. Emotional interaction? Not really a need.

 

I say this because I told him the last 4-5 years we'd been living a "roommate" marriage. He said he did notice things had changed, but since I seemed to be happy with things, then he was happy too. (Actually I wasn't happy but wasn't expressing my needs, mainly because it took me so long to figure things out.)

 

Men and women are "hard wired" differently, and this isn't just me, but has been born out by hard clinical science. ("Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus" , February 2006 edition of Time and National Geographic Magazine, "Why Men Don't Have A Clue And Women Need Another Pair of Shoes"

 

Men need to have sex to be loved and women need to feel loved in order to have sex. (Generally speaking) Which is why men don't get enough sex, and women don't get enough love, (Yet another book ~ "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex and Women Don't Get Enough Love"

 

Men generally speaking tend to be "lone wolves" while women are much more prone to be more social. Which is why men tend to be so much more devastated by a breakup than women ~ because much of their social network is made up by people that meet through the woman. When the woman leaves? They've lost most of their 'circle of influence' and social network.

 

Having entered into a solitary relationship with a woman ~ the man's friends prior to the relationship tend to fall to the wayside. By choice of either party.

 

For LSD's add the above to our having served in the Marines? The Marine Corps life is pretty much a Spartan way of life, and has a lot to do with learning to be self sufficient? Mentally, emotionally, physically, psychologically etc.

 

After a hitch in the Marines, we're pretty much so ~ self sufficient that is. As men? We were already there ~ a four year tour in the Marines makes us only more so.

 

Add to that all that goes with being a man, a marriage, a divorce, the repercussions of such, the longevity of such, the "once bitten twice shy" syndrome?

 

Well once a man has been married and divorced? Logic dictated that relative to a certain age he simply cannot afford to keep going back to ChinaMart and such and buying the same stuff that he's already bought once before?

 

Most men are absolutely clueless when it comes to meeting the emotional needs of a woman. They're absolutely clueless about romance and a woman's need for emotional intimacy before physical intimacy.

 

Men have to be taught such things for the most part ~ as few all self motivated enough to learn on their own ~ except the few that do so after having their @zzes handed to them as the wife or GF walks out the door?

 

For the most part? Men are like the Pillsbury Doughboy ~ when it comes to their meeting a woman's emotional and intimacy needs.

 

All women are alike ~ yet each one is unique and different ~ with unique and different needs. The same is true with men.

 

Getting back to to Pillsbury Doughboy analogy ~ First you've got to get rid of all the crap that society and cultural has taught them as to what being a man, husband, and father is.

 

This can be hard to do.

 

Then you've got get rid of all the crap that their Mother's and Sisters and any other female of significant influence in their lives have taught them?

 

Then you've got to fold them and mold and shape them in the perfect husband for you!

 

But you need to do this early on, For if you don't? They're going to come out all folded, molded and shaped all wrong, and the only thing to do is to throw them out.

 

That is to say ~ that from the very beginning? You've got to teach them how to treat you, love you, hold you, touch you, make love to you, respect you.

 

Ditto for men.

 

Its a little something I like to call "communication'

 

You've got to let them know what your boundaries are ~ what you will stand for ~ for if you don't stand for something? You'll fall for anything.

 

That's the reason its not a good idea to have sex to early on in a relationship. You need time to set the boundaries and to learn each others wants and needs. To learn each others 'touch' for each other. To learn how to meet each others emotional ~ intimacy needs first ~ before physical/sexual needs?

 

Study after study from the Kinsey Report on down have proven that the length of a relationship is proportionate to how soon the couple becomes sexually intimate.

 

I attempted to get 'frisky' with my last LTR GF (we broke up over geographical differences) and she pushed me away and told me ~ "It doesn't come that easy! You've got to work for it!"

 

We teach the people in our lives how to treat us!

 

And that's a unique problem in that we're all the same ~ yet all different?

 

The people in our lives only know how to treat us the way we teach them to treat us.

 

But so seldom the lessons are never taught?

 

And we're left in awe and confussion as to why they're in awe and confussion about how to treat us? And why they treat us the way they do?