Do Catholics read the Bible?

[CostumeSmile]

Alright here is a question that has baffled me for quite some time.....

 

Catholics in particular I have noticed that have many shrine like statues and images in their churches. They kneel and pray to these different saints, wear rosaries and have pictures of saints which they treasure and worship...now my question is....

 

Do Catholics not read the Bible? Is their Bible different?

 

I ask because I read the Bible and it clearly and repeatedly states:

 

 

(Exodus 20:4-5) - "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me."

 

(Leviticus 26:1) - "You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

 

(Deuteronomy 5:8) - "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."

 

(Deuteronomy 27:15) - "Cursed is the man who makes an idol or a molten image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen.’"

Shall make graven images

 

 

I checked different Bibles but they all say the same thing, can someone explain this to me?

[andreautick]

My family is Catholic...or at least they were before I was born. I've attended a few catholic services. They do read the bible, but not as much as other Christian faiths. I've never seen a catholic carrying around a copy of the bible with a bible cover or anything like that. I've also never been in a service where they read out of the bible or anything. They do believe in patron saints...like Saint Frances is the saint of animals and people will pray particularly to that saint if their pet is ailing or something of that sort. So, they believe in one God with many helpers...and his helpers as something like the alternate believe of angels. I don't understand it. The Catholic faith is really confusing in a lot of ways...like that whole thing they do about carrying around relics (aka BONES) of dead saints. If I'm wrong about any of this, please correct me. I'm just trying to explain this based on my minimal knowledge:)

[moimeme]

Of course CathOlics read the Bible. There are three readings from the Bible in every Mass. I can't think of a Catholic sacrament that does not include readings from the Bible.

 

As for the 'idols', this is a very common misperception. Of COURSE Catholics don't pray to 'idols'. Are you idolizing the picture of Jesus if you look at it while you pray? When you pray in front of a crucifix, are you praying TO the crucifix and making it an idol? The statues are just a visual to remind you of the individual to whom you are praying.

 

Andreautick's explanation about 'helpers' is as good as any. Catholics believe that Jesus' mother and father as well as the saints can intercede on our behalf; i.e. put a good word into God's ear . So Catholics will ask the saint to petition God for whatever they want. They may look at a picture or statue of the saint. This is not 'worshipping idols'.

 

To correct another misapprehension, the Pope is NOT infallible in everything he says. Infallibility is restricted ONLY to Ex Cathedra pronouncements made by the Pope. These are pretty rare and have quite a process which must be followed before they are made.

[CostumeSmile]

(Leviticus 26:1) - "You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

 

That is so clear to me yet you say:

 

So Catholics will ask the saint to petition God for whatever they want. They may look at a picture or statue of the saint.

 

(Deuteronomy 27:15) - "Cursed is the man who makes an idol or a molten image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman,

This suggest to me that those statues shouldn't be made in the 1st place, never mind put them on display for people to use in any form to reach God even less to serve as "Reminder".

[steveb]

I have always noticed the same thing.

 

That is why I beleive in faith and carma, but in no "organized" religions.

 

After all, a church is anywhere you choose it to be, not a building.

[lostforwords]

i just may get chastized for saying this..... however costume i was always in belief and explained that this....

(Leviticus 26:1) - "You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

was referring to other religions such as buddhaism, cows, etc.. a cow does not represent God... however people idolize it..... when there are statues of jesus and mary and such they arent diols of anything other than meant to be the image referring to god or jesus christ himself.... i dont believe (in my opinion) they are idols... other than a visual object of God and anything that pertains to him.

[CostumeSmile]

other than a visual object of God

But it's so clear.......it's in black and white:

(Leviticus 26:1) - "You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

[jenny]

are catholics biblical literalists? i'm not sure...

 

i would assume the warnings against objects for worship was more because they distract from other more important tenets like helping others, helping the commmunity, feeding the poor, etc?

 

i mean, i think it was a spiritual guideline, not a rule?

 

but, i don't really know, and it would depend on whether or not the person followed the bible as a literal text, i think.

[moimeme]

CostumeSmile

 

I suggest you refer to some theological experts so that you will understand the proper interpretation of that passage.

 

By the way, Leviticus also says that if your son disobeys, you should stone him in the street. It says that menstruating women should not be touched and that anything they touch has to be washed. It says that all adulterers have to be stoned to death in the street. I could go on, but basically the whole chapter has rules in it.

 

Do you do all these things? If not, why not?

[CostumeSmile]

I would just think that since it is described as such an offense to God that one would be very careful about such a thing.

 

(Deuteronomy 27:15) - "Cursed is the man who makes an idol or a molten image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen.’"

 

It says that all adulterers have to be stoned to death in the street. I could go on, but basically the whole chapter has rules in it.

 

The Bible says that when Jesus came to earth he liberated us from those laws. He changed those laws, "an eye for an eye" for example Jesus did freed us from those laws. That is also clearly stated in the Bible.

[CostumeSmile]

moimeme have you read the New Testament? Jesus came and changed that, he liberated us from such laws....

 

I don't see a need for interpreting what is in black in white....very clearly stated.

 

Give me a sec. and I can find the exact verse and it's the same in every Bible.

[moimeme]

The Bible says that when Jesus came to earth he liberated us from those laws. He changed those laws, "an eye for an eye" for example Jesus did freed us from those laws. That is also clearly stated in the Bible.

 

ROTFL!!! Well, then, dearie, why are you quoting them???????????????????????

[lostforwords]

oh boy!!!! lmao!!!!!! ok... read what you just posted here...

(Deuteronomy 27:15) - "Cursed is the man who makes an idol or a molten image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman,

 

Ok the part that is bold, underlined, and italicized... abomination is defined in dictionary.com as well as other resources.... as:

 

abomination

 

\A*bom`i*na"tion\, n. [OE. abominacioun, -cion, F. abominatio. See Abominate.] 1. The feeling of extreme disgust and hatred; abhorrence; detestation; loathing; as, he holds tobacco in abomination.

 

2. That which is abominable; anything hateful, wicked, or shamefully vile; an object or state that excites disgust and hatred; a hateful or shameful vice; pollution.

 

Antony, most large in his abominations. --Shak.

 

3. A cause of pollution or wickedness.

 

Syn: Detestation; loathing; abhorrence; disgust; aversion; loathsomeness; odiousness. --Sir W. Scott.

Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

abomination

 

n : hate coupled with disgust [syn: abhorrence, detestation, execration, loathing, odium]

 

abomination

 

This word is used, (1.) To express the idea that the Egyptians considered

themselves as defiled when they ate with strangers (Gen. 43:32). The Jews

subsequently followed the same practice, holding it unlawful to eat or drink

with foreigners (John 18:28; Acts 10:28; 11:3).

 

(2.) Every shepherd was "an

abomination" unto the Egyptians (Gen. 46:34). This aversion to shepherds, such

as the Hebrews, arose probably from the fact that Lower and Middle Egypt had

formerly been held in oppressive subjection by a tribe of nomad shepherds (the

Hyksos), who had only recently been expelled, and partly also perhaps from this

other fact that the Egyptians detested the lawless habits of these wandering

shepherds.

 

(3.) Pharaoh was so moved by the fourth plague, that while he

refused the demand of Moses, he offered a compromise, granting to the

Israelites permission to hold their festival and offer their sacrifices in

Egypt. This permission could not be accepted, because Moses said they would

have to sacrifice "the abomination of the Egyptians" (Ex. 8:26); i.e., the cow

or ox, which all the Egyptians held as sacred, and which they regarded it as

sacrilegious to kill.

 

(4.) Daniel (11:31), in that section of his prophecies

which is generally interpreted as referring to the fearful calamities that were

to fall on the Jews in the time of Antiochus Epiphanes, says, "And they shall

place the abomination that maketh desolate." Antiochus Epiphanes caused an

altar to be erected on the altar of burnt-offering, on which sacrifices were

offered to Jupiter Olympus. (Comp. 1 Macc. 1:57). This was the abomination of

the desolation of Jerusalem. The same language is employed in Dan. 9:27 (comp.

Matt. 24:15), where the reference is probably to the image-crowned standards

which the Romans set up at the east gate of the temple (A.D. 70), and to which

they paid idolatrous honours. "Almost the entire religion of the Roman camp

consisted in worshipping the ensign, swearing by the ensign, and in preferring

the ensign before all other gods." These ensigns were an "abomination" to the

Jews, the "abomination of desolation." This word is also used symbolically of

sin in general (Isa. 66:3); an idol (44:19); the ceremonies of the apostate

Church of Rome (Rev. 17:4); a detestable act (Ezek. 22:11).

 

IN OTHER WORDS.... God was referring to ANYTHING OTHER THAN Himself or anything that has to do with him eg:Jesus, Mary... etc....

 

 

My understanding is you can have statues in HIS IMAGE or Jesus Image or Marys Image..... But not that of another religious Symbol or Idol. such as a cow etc.......

[BlockHead]

Um… Many different authors with different ideas, agendas, audiences, and at different time periods wrote the Bible. The authors even disagree and contradict each other on some issues.

 

You can even say that there are two gods. God of the New Testament, and God of the Old Testament. God is forgiving in the New Testament, and God is punishing in the Old Testament.

 

Ask yourself, do you agree with the author of Deuteronomy? He didn’t write about Christianity or even about Jesus. Who is his audience and what is he addressing? In what context? For example, Paul wrote the letter to Galatians because he was upset over some missionaries that were undermining his authority.

[moimeme]

The salient point is this: Commandment #1 in both Old Testament and New: Love God with all your hearts, all your minds, and all your souls. PUT NO OTHER GODS BEFORE HIM.

 

This does not mean you can't have photos or statues or shrines or anything else to saints, cows, or pop stars. It means that God is supposed to be Numero Uno in your love and your belief and that you're not supposed to have another God.

 

Buddhism doesn't have a God BTW. It has a prophet who led the way to love/nirvana/god/whatever you want to call it. Same with Islam; same God, different prophets. Really, if you take a look at all the religions, all believe in the identical tenets at heart - and then diverge in how to go about expressing that belief. However, if you do a study of world religions, as I have, you find out that every one of them believes in two truths:

 

1. There is a Divinity which should be honoured above all

2. You must be loving towards your fellow humans

 

The fact that all these religions came up with the same two premises independently, despite their geographic separation, is to me the most persuasive argument that these are the tenets by which we are to live and that these must be recognized as universal truths.

[BlockHead]

Numbers 21:4-9

From Mount Hor they set out on the Red Sea road, to bypass the land of Edom. But with their patience worn out by the journey, the people complained against God and Moses, “Why have you brought us up from Egypt to die in this desert, where there is no food or water? We are disgusted with this wretched food!”

In punishment the Lord sent among the people saraph serpents, which bit the people so that many of them died. Then the people came to Moses and said, “We have sinned in complaining against the Lord and you. Pray the Lord to take the serpents from us.” So Moses prayed for the people, and the Lord said to Moses, “Make a saraph and mount it on a pole, and if anyone who has been bitten looks at it, he will recover.” Moses accordingly made a bronze serpent and mounted it on a pole, and whenever anyone who had been bitten by a serpent looked at the bronze serpent, he recovered.

Does the author of Deuteronomy refer to any statue or figure with the word idol? It was God who ordered the construction bronze serpent.

 

I hope this helps.

[CostumeSmile]

To Momimme

He did not liberate us from the moral laws....that's stated, no need to get hasty...dearie. I'm only trying to get an answer to my question.

 

Is it not a valid question?

 

As for the serpent....

 

It was God who ordered the construction bronze serpent.

I believe that says it all.

[jenny]

it's quite a large leap to go from culturally shared similar impulses to suggesting that a universal truth that must be obeyed.

[moimeme]

Don't recall using the word 'obey'. Not sure what would be troublesome about being decent to other people. The rest is 'Namaste'. Pretty benevolent aims, aren't they?

[CostumeSmile]

Well I don't think I will be getting my answer here but let me just tell you a little bit about why I asked.

My father is a professor a Pentecostal Biblical institute, my parents are both very firm believers in the Lord and his scriptures now I have been asking my father about the Catholic religion and why they have so many images, statues and saints in their chapels and so on but he has never been able to give me a clear answer b/c that is not his belief. So, I figured I ask the general public or Catholics directly and see how they justify this. Unfortunately I heard no clear justification that cannot be put to rest by what is clearly stated in the Bible.

[BlockHead]

I remember hearing that there is no afterlife in the Old Testament. Death meant absolute nothingness. Does that mean that the nothingness will also swallow you up?

I admit, I am unwilling to research that topic.

 

CostumeSmile

He did not liberate us from the moral laws....that's stated, no need to get hasty...dearie. I'm only trying to get an answer to my question.

St. Paul would disagree. His teaching focused on justification by faith.

 

Galatians 2:15-21

We, who are Jews by nature are not sinners from among the Gentiles, who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? Of course not! But if I am building up again those things that I tore down, then I show myself to be a transgressor. For through law I died to the law, that I might live for God. I have been crucified with Christ; yet I live, no longer I, but Christ lives in me; insofar as I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God who has loved me and given himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification comes through the law, then Christ died for nothing.

This was written in context to the topic of circumcision.

 

The reality is Peter, the apostle, was a knucklehead. Jesus didn’t call him Peter (rock) because he 'dependable.' Paul had an argument with Peter over the issue after James, the brother of Jesus (if I am remembering correctly), convinced Peter that they must be circumcised.

 

James, the brother of Jesus, was the Jewish Christian who wanted Christians to observe the Jewish Law (the conservative).

Paul believed that the Jewish Law was obsolete, and it didn’t have to be followed because of justification by faith (the liberal).

Peter, the apostle, was swayed until Paul yelled at him.

 

I think you spent too much time on the details, and in the process, you missed the big picture.

 

jenny

it's quite a large leap to go from culturally shared similar impulses to suggesting that a universal truth that must be obeyed.

What bothers me is that CostumeSmile seems to be suggesting that God willingly breaks his own rules? The hypocrisy of that is unimaginable.

[quankanne]

I have been asking my father about the Catholic religion and why they have so many images, statues and saints in their chapels and so on but he has never been able to give me a clear answer b/c that is not his belief. So, I figured I ask the general public or Catholics directly and see how they justify this

 

statues and images of holy people (or those the Church recognizes as saints) are prolific because you have to remember that although the Catholic Church has been around nearly 2000 years, it's only been recently that we've had cameras to take pictures of some of these folks.

 

For a long time, the only way to visualize that saint was to paint a picture or carve a statue of him or her, hence all the holy cards and statues and pictures of them. But the people who are recognized in recent years most likely have been photographed, like Blessed Mother Teresa, the Albanian nun who worked with the poor and the afflicted in India during the mid- to late 1900s. And as time passes by, you're going to find that because we have access to pictures/photography, those people we look up to or admire for their holy way of life will be reflected more in photo images, not carvings like the guys from the old days.

 

As for the fallacy about us Catholics worshiping saints ... well, that just ain't so! We ask them to pray for us, to act as intercessors on our behalf because we believe that a holy man or woman has the ear of God much like the way we felt that one parent had the ear of the other when we were growing up. I can guarantee you, I spent a lot of time talking things over with my mom when I wanted something (new clothes, a certain album, to go to the Saturday dances with friends) and trust her to "deliver" that request to my dad in a way that he wouldn't automatically say no! We're just looking for way to connect with The Big Guy, and saints are tried and true resources when we're too afraid to go it alone.

 

To say that I worship St. Joseph or St. Jude or St. Anthony for helping me or because I carry a holy card of one of them or because I ask for their help is to say that I also worship members of my family because I have photos of them that I enjoy looking at!

 

Catholics know that God is in charge -- we just happen to have a whole crew of people we recognize who will help us when we ask for their prayers for our intentions. Nothing more, nothing less.

[BlockHead]

quankanne

We ask them to pray for us, to act as intercessors on our behalf because we believe that a holy man or woman has the ear of God much like the way we felt that one parent had the ear of the other when we were growing up.

That arrangement is no different from the one between Moses and the Jews.

[CostumeSmile]

What bothers me is that CostumeSmile seems to be suggesting that God willingly breaks his own rules? The hypocrisy of that is unimaginable.

 

Wow! Never did I say that, Moimemme had brought up the question re: the law of "an eye for eye, a life for a life" and I replied to her by saying that when JESUS came to earth he liberated us from that law but not the laws of morality (in re: to idols, images ect.).

 

Saying that I am in any way suggesting that God is hypocrite is absurd! This is clearly why you must read the post carefully especially before making such a BOLD statement.

 

Now about:

 

We, who are Jews by nature are not sinners from among the Gentiles, who know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. But if, in seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves are found to be sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin?

 

My question had nothing to w/ how God will judge the sinner, my question was why are Catholics practicing something that is so clearly stated in the Bible to be an abomination to God....nothing to do with how God will judge them but how do they justify this act?

[CostumeSmile]

Thank you quankanne for taking the time out explain this to me and not getting all worked up over it, the reason I started this thread is b/c I do want to find a reason for this and I appreciate the feedback, it's all about learning to me.

 

I'm still a little confused though as to if is ok to pray to these Saints, I'm not sure what the Bible says re: praying to anything other than God, still doesn't seem right (in my opinion only) to use an image as a "reminder"or anything else.