Do Catholics read the Bible?

[lostforwords]

Thank you quank..... you have said it as perfectl as it could get..... Costume.... perhaps read quanks post..... hopefully that will enlighten you in ways no one else could on here..... you requested it from a catholic..... and she has responded..... Good Luck!!

[CostumeSmile]

Sorry Quank but now I have to beg to differ:

 

"For there is one God and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ." (1 Timothy 2:5-6)

 

"I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)

 

C'mon don't we all read the same Bible? There are no mediators between God and us but Jesus so what purpose to these Saints serve again?

[CostumeSmile]

We ask them to pray for us, to act as intercessors on our behalf because we believe that a holy man or woman has the ear of God

 

Quank said....

[lostforwords]

saint

 

\Saint\ (s[=a]nt), n. [F., fr. L. sanctus sacred, properly p. p. of sancire to render sacred by a religious act, to appoint as sacred; akin to sacer sacred. Cf. Sacred, Sanctity, Sanctum, Sanctus.] 1. A person sanctified; a holy or godly person; one eminent for piety and virtue; any true Christian, as being redeemed and consecrated to God.

 

Them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints. --1 Cor. i. 2.

 

2. One of the blessed in heaven.

 

Then shall thy saints, unmixed, and from the impure Far separate, circling thy holy mount, Unfeigned hallelujahs to thee sing. --Milton.

 

3. (Eccl.) One canonized by the church. [Abbrev. St.]

 

saint ( P ) Pronunciation Key (snt)

n.

 

Abbr. St. or S. Christianity. A person officially recognized, especially by canonization, as being entitled to public veneration and capable of interceding for people on earth.

A person who has died and gone to heaven.

Saint A member of any of various religious groups, especially a Latter-Day Saint.

An extremely virtuous person.

 

 

dictionary.com

 

I dont understand costume what your motives are now.... perhaps i am wrong in saying this.... but it sounds to me like your having a bad day.... and your now arguing for the sake of arguing???? perhaps im wrong..... Just my opinion..... Hope your day goes Better

[BlockHead]

CostumeSmile

My question had nothing to w/ how God will judge the sinner, my question was why are Catholics practicing something that is so clearly stated in the Bible to be an abomination to God....nothing to do with how God will judge them but how do they justify this act?

Do you understand that what you are referring to is a viewpoint from the authors of Deuteronomy, Exodus, and Leviticus? Until you can grasp that idea, I don’t think there is anything I can say to your satisfaction.

 

The Bible is a book written by many different authors, and it is inherently flawed.

 

CostumeSmile

C'mon don't we all read the same Bible? There are no mediators between God and us but Jesus so what purpose to these Saints serve again?

The timing of Jesus’s resurrection is also a problem.

The same is true with the issue of meat.

Tell me about the issue of divorce.

 

If you are looking for the ‘perfect’ interpretation of the Bible, you can forget it. That will never happen! Not in a million billion quintillion years!

 

If you can’t get past those lines in Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy, tear out the pages and burn them.

 

I’m out of here.

[moimeme]

not the laws of morality (in re: to idols, images ect.).

 

How can you contend that having 'idols' is a 'law of morality' and saying that adulterers have to be killed is not?

 

And, both Quank and I have told you the statues are not prayed TO. NOBODY thinks the statue is a god. The Biblical injunction is against turning things into GODS. The Old Testament people who angered God because of constructing statues did so because those people used to think the statues WERE gods.

 

Similarly, praying to saints is not the same as worshiping them. It is a word we use. If you prefer, let's call it 'talking to the saints' or 'asking the saints'. It does not mean they are placed above God. It is saying 'hey, St. Francis - when next you're talking to God, could you please ask Him to give me a hand?'

 

It is fallacious to take single sentences out of the Scriptures to prove points, by the way. You need to understand the entire passage in its historical context. Otherwise you get into a battle of duelling passages until the end of time.

 

Now you're quoting the same St. Paul who said that women should not braid their hair, wear gold jewellery, or TEACH!!!! I'm pretty sure he'd have a lot to say about cleavage, as well. Do you follow everything St. Paul says? If not, why not?

 

If you claim to follow the Bible literally, then you must follow all of it literally. If you quote an authority on one thing, you must follow that authority on all things. People have the unfortunate habit of picking and choosing the bits of Scripture which seem to support them but feel no compunction to actually observe their companion passages which is a horrible bastardization of the Bible and one of the worst blasphemies I can think of.

[CostumeSmile]

Lost.....Why would you say that, have you even followed the thread? Obviously not so why jump in with ignorant conclusions! Does it bother you that I have done my homework on the subject therefor I cannot accept an answer that is easily proven invalid.

 

By the way my day is going just wonderfully than God.

 

Moimme I am only asking because I want to understand peoples beliefs, Catholics in particular. Yes there are many things in the Bible that can be interpreted in many ways but I feel that the ones that I have quated are very clear, I am in way making these things up or using them out of context!

[lostforwords]

Now you're quoting the same St. Paul who said that women should not braid their hair, wear gold jewellery, or TEACH!!!! I'm pretty sure he'd have a lot to say about cleavage, as well. Do you follow everything St. Paul says? If not, why not?

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!! moimeme... with this statement being said..... YOU HAVE MADE MY DAY!!!! LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you so much!!

 

Costume... thank you so much for your .. uh... "kind words"...... you appear as though you really want to know about your thread question and now about Saints...... if people need to point this out to you..... then quite obviously..... you have no clue about the bible and are merely picking statements here and there..... for someone to ask about what the purpose of a Saint is..... truly shows me where the ignorance lies...... I was merely DEFINING the word Saint for you so you could actually KNOW what it means when you come across the word while your reading the BIBLE in its entirety, so as you dont have to actually ASK another question for the sake of arguing. I guess call it nip it in the bud.

[CostumeSmile]

I never claimed to follow any religion....again LOST read, read and please READ or just stay LOST!

[moimeme]

Ah! Thought so. Here we are:

 

 

1 Timothy 2:9

I also want women to dress modestly, with decency and propriety, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or expensive clothes.

 

http://www.biblegateway.com

 

Geez! Pearls, too! Forgot about the pearls. Darnsie.

 

My point, in case it is not crystal clear, is that if a person is going to undertake to use the Bible to judge others or to tell others how to live, that person must use that same Bible to govern his or her own life in identical fashion. To tell people to do one thing and to do differently oneself is hypocrisy. You have to walk your talk.

[lostforwords]

LOL.. never said YOU followed a religion.... perhaps you need to reread.... your not like this usually..... anyways.... im done with this thread... its nonproductive as well as repetitive....

[Bronzepen]

Custome to answer your question, here is a possible explanation. According to history, idol worships stems from a Pope's doctrine.

 

"Beginning around the 4th and 5th centuries, images and statues were created to show the conflicts of martyrs and sacred history to those people who could not read. These simple people, who fully respected the saints and/or martyrs portrayed in the statues and images, began to show veneration and respect to the images themselves. In the beginning, Christians were hesitant to introduce the veneration of images because of the pagans, who they had only recently converted, might have had cause to begin idolatry once more.

 

Early on, the Catholic Church ordered that images of Jesus, Mary, and saints be placed in temples and churches. Furthermore, they ordered that these images be given honor. Here's a quote from one of the early popes:"

 

Creed of Pope Pius IV.

 

"I most firmly assert, that the images of Christ, of the Mother of God, ever virgin,

and also of the other saints, ought to be had and retained, and that due honor and

veneration are to be given them."

[WWDDFD]

A question for the protestants: Why don't you go around killing homosexuals? After all, the bible clearly says it's your duty.

Why don't you go around killing people who work on the Sabbath? After all, the bible clearly says you must be put to death for this.

 

I mean... it's so CLEAR!

 

 

So why don't you do it?

 

 

 

As for not reading the bible during a catholic mass... PLEASE! I've never been to a catholic mass where we DIDN'T read out of the bible!

 

Why do all catholic bashers seem to have no idea about catholicism in the first place?

[cdn]

Costume -

 

Yes, Catholics read the Bible, and follow its tenets. Here is a site that addresses many of the questions you have posed: http://davidmacd.com/catholic/bible_catholics.htm

 

This section (http://davidmacd.com/catholic/statues_in_church.htm) specifically addresses your question about statues as idols.

 

For what it's worth, I just now stumbled on this site so I can't vouch for it in any in-depth way, but it does seem (at first blush) to do a pretty good job of bridging the Catholic/Protestant gap.

[wiseOLDman]

A very interesting read. Without this Catholic chiming in I would like to simply address Costume's contention that:

 

Unfortunately I heard no clear justification that cannot be put to rest by what is clearly stated in the Bible.

 

Persons have very clearly provided justification Costume. You've simply chosen not to accept them. So I would say that we're all at that point of agreeing to disagree.

[Drop in]

I am going to jump in here too – it sounds like a lively debate.

 

I understand what the Catholics are saying – they are not praying to, or worshipping anyone over God and they don’t look at statutes of Saints as having any divine power – merely a tool to use to help them keep focused and guide their own prayers/thoughts. They believe that the Saints speak to God and that they must or should (I don’t know if it is allowed to pray directly to God or if they must go through a Saint) send their prayers to God through a Saint – like a secretary or postal service! J Just as counting on a Rosary –its just a tool that is used to assist prayer to God. Its not like in the Old Testament where they built a golden calf and worshipped it in place of God.

 

On the other hand – a Baptist minister told me that Catholics are more pagan than Christian.

pa·gan (p g n)

n.

1. One who is not a Christian, Muslim, or Jew, especially a worshiper of a polytheistic religion.

2. One who has no religion.

3. A non-Christian.

4. A hedonist.

5. A Neo-Pagan.

 

adj.

1. Not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish.

2. Professing no religion; heathen.

3. Neo-Pagan.

The whole thing about canonization and saints is a human invention and not sanctioned by God according to some Christian beliefs. The Catholic Bible is slightly different from the Baptists'. Just think about the Lord’s Prayer and how it differs. Even the parts of the Bible that are the same are interpreted so differently!

 

If there really is only one God, then who is right and who is wrong? I don’t believe in God so it doesn’t matter to me. Moimeme, you are good at arguing your point – but it doesn’t matter how exasperated you sound in your writing, or how condescending you may become, or how adamant you are – it only makes you right to you!

 

If you claim to follow the Bible literally, then you must follow all of it literally. If you quote an authority on one thing, you must follow that authority on all things.

Why?

 

People have the unfortunate habit of picking and choosing the bits of Scripture which seem to support them

Why is that unfortunate? Isn’t that what the Bible is there for? To use as a guide?

 

but feel no compunction to actually observe their companion passages which is a horrible bastardization of the Bible and one of the worst blasphemies I can think of.

This logic is flawed. That’s like saying “thou shalt not kill” Oops! I stepped on a spider and took a life, guess I’m going to hell. The Bible is a Metaphor and as such, it is open to a wide range of interpretation. EVERYONE who worships interprets the Bible to suit themselves—if they didn’t there would be only one Christian religion and not all the varieties that we have today.

[cdn]

Please Drop In more often :-)

 

Remember when Bob Jones referred to the Catholic Church as a Satanic Cult? The rift between Catholics and Protestants is not new and not likely to go away anytime soon. Protestants tend to view the Bible more literally than do Catholics (or Anglicans or Episcopalians, for that matter). As someone here (I think Blockhead) correctly pointed out, the Bible was written over many years and by many people. Not to mention in many languages! It was then interpreted by many different scholars who often had to take best guesses at missing or unintelligible bits. Given all of this, how could there not be contradictions?

[quankanne]

ah, I just LOVED the comment about the Baptist minister saying that Catholics aren't Christian -- it just floors me to see how ignorant professed preachers of God's word are of church history! Either they are unaware of -- or just don't care to relate -- the fact that the first Christian church was the Catholic church, and that the Protestant movement began when people began arguing about what they saw was the corruptness of the religion and started their own community of belief because they felt it more truly reflected what they believed.

 

my own irreverent thought? Catholics don't read the Bible as much as Protestants do because they're too busy trying to live the Gospel message! why nit-pick about this translation or that when you could just be following in Jesus's footsteps?

 

I'd like to correct what one poster put forth:

(Catholics) believe that the Saints speak to God and that they must or should send their prayers to God through a Saint – like a secretary or postal service!

 

almost, but no cigar. we believe that someone who prays for God's guidance and assistence has the option of calling on the saints for their prayers. Sort of like being in a prayer chain through your church group, except the folks you're asking to pray for you have been dead for many centuries (known as the communion of saints in Catholic circles -- you're connected by your belief). You don't elevate the members of that prayer chain even though you feel they're pretty powerful as prayer warriors, but you feel good knowing that their added voice in your petitions to God are giving your request some good weight.

 

an example? a lot of you know that my mom recently died. I've asked people to pray that she die a happy and peaceful death, going painlessly and in God's grace. Now, I hadn't realized it until a priest-friend pointed out, but I could also petition St. Joseph (stepdaddy of Jesus) that she be granted that peaceful death. HE wasn't going to give her that, but I feel he DID throw his prayers in with all of ours so that she died peacefully.

 

... if you believe that prayer can change the world, how much more power do you have when you've got a tried and true prayer warrior in someone who God has found favor with?

[dyermaker]

You give me a faith, and I can find a passage from their own scripture that condemns them. Catholics don't worship Mary, Idols, or the saints.

 

Moimeme is totally right, you can't quote one passage of scripture out of context and use it to condemn a practice.

 

Lev 11:10 [KJV] And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you [NIV] But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales --- whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water --- you are to detest.

 

Had shrimp last night? You're going to hell.

[lostforwords]

You give me a faith, and I can find a passage from their own scripture that condemns them. Catholics don't worship Mary, Idols, or the saints.

 

Moimeme is totally right, you can't quote one passage of scripture out of context and use it to condemn a practice.

 

 

quote:Lev 11:10 [KJV] And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you [NIV] But all creatures in the seas or streams that do not have fins and scales --- whether among all the swarming things or among all the other living creatures in the water --- you are to detest.

 

 

 

Had shrimp last night? You're going to hell.

 

ROFL!!!!!!!!! the shrimp comment...... dyermaker.. im with jenny... lmao dooooooood r u sure your 15....... omg.....

[dyermaker]

It only takes fifteen years of being a Catholic and putting up with the stupid things people throw at you. I love it when Protestants tell me that we're not Christians, as if Catholics weren't the first Christians.

 

In my opinion, when you turn the scriptures around to condemn good people, you're taking the Lord's name in vain. For example, There's a scriptural passage in which the hebrew was translated into english as "God hated Esau". Thus, this orginization took it that God can hate what he created in his image, and now voila, http://www.godhatesfags.com *Rolls eyes*

 

Catholics read the Bible. Not only that, Catholics study and pray with the bible, in communion with their church. Our beliefs aren't derived from one man's ideas, but rather from an extremely educated historical elite that prayed and studied scripture for their entire lives, and went on to form the doctrine that Catholics expect. The Catholic history is colorful, with many dark and shady parts that reveal the flaw of man. But, I remain a Catholic, because that's the belief that I accept, and I think it enables me to live my life in communion with Christ.

 

To each is own, and I condemn no one's beliefs. I disagree with some, but I'm happy they allow you to pursue God. I would appreciate the same respect from the people who inform me of my journey to Hell, but I'm sure they mean well. Regardless, after I say grace, I'm having shellfish tonight.

[Arabess]

EXCELLENT Moimeme!!! I copied and pasted your explanation. I feel the same way and never could express it quite as eloquently.

[BlockHead]

CostumeSmile

(Exodus 20:4-5) - "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth. 5"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me."

 

(Leviticus 26:1) - "You shall not make for yourselves idols, nor shall you set up for yourselves an image or a sacred pillar, nor shall you place a figured stone in your land to bow down to it; for I am the Lord your God."

 

(Deuteronomy 5:8) - "You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any likeness of what is in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the water under the earth."

 

(Deuteronomy 27:15) - "Cursed is the man who makes an idol or a molten image, an abomination to the Lord, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and sets it up in secret.’ And all the people shall answer and say, ‘Amen.’"

Shall make graven images

 

I think your avatar has brought God’s curse onto your children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren. Time to burn all family photos, and artwork.

 

Television is the ultimate evil. 30 frames per second and how many hours of it do people watch.

 

Grind the statues and eat the dust. We are all going to hell.

 

How many sheep and goat do we have to sacrifice for God’s forgiveness? What is the conversion from the number of sheep and goat to children?

[moimeme]

Dyer - do the world a favour. Plan on becoming President one day, OK?

[dyermaker]

If free elections are still a part of American Society and haven't been eliminated in the interest of the people, I'll consider it