Is it likely that a 50 year old emotionally/verbally abusive man can change?

[camkeetai]

He was raised in a very abusive home-physical, emotional, verbal. His first wife divorced him after 17 years. I think they both had issues. I have been married to him for 9 years and we have 5 children between 2 and 8 years old. It was a whirlwind courtship and we married after only 4 months of knowing each other (probably my first mistake, but I was naive and trusting.)There have been a few incidences of destroying things, throwing things, and physically intimidating me. Mostly it is a constant state of walking on eggshells. He will get very angry about things and “go off” on a tirade. It could be about anything, but once he starts ranting it goes on and on and he brings in everything in his whole life that is wrong and how nobody around him ever does anything right and he is the only one in the world who is smart or good enough to get things right. We work together on projects and he is always yelling at me for bringing the wrong tool or not being in the right place. If I don't want to help he starts on about how I don't have the best interest of the family in mind and he doesn't get any help or participation and I must not care about our marriage. A year and a half ago I took the kids and left. He promised to make improvements so we got back together. Things were much better for a while, but he is again falling back into the pattern of yelling and guilt tripping and controlling. I try to tell him how I feel but he minimizes it and makes me feel like I'm the one with a problem. I feel like I'm at a crossroads. I believe strongly in marriage and don't want to just walk away, but can a man truly change after a lifetime of abusive behaviour? I want to suggest counselling for our marriage and as individuals, but we have talked before about how he doesn't think it really helps anybody, it just brings out false accusations and blame. I don't know whether to give it one more try or just give up.

[carhill]

Five kids, eh?

 

Hmmm...... I would predicate any continuation of the M upon at least one year of MC, with adjunct IC for him and his personal issues. If he's not willing to make that commitment, before the judge he goes

 

I know how entrenched my behaviors are (different, but still unhealthy) and, at 50 also, how much work it took to make any meaningful progress in MC. We were at it for the better part of 14 months. Didn't save the M but it sure helped me personally.

 

If you didn't have that gaggle of kids, I'd say just leave but there's a lot of lives to consider here. Best wishes

[norajane]

He needs to be in therapy. Serious therapy. And anger management therapy.

 

If he's gone this long without dealing with his issues, he's not magically going to stop being abusive. He needs professional help. Insist on it if you stay with him. Insist on it anyway, even if you don't stay - you have children together, and those kids are watching and learning how to be people from their abusive father.

[trippi1432]

Good luck...most likely....NOT!

[PWSX3]

I say yes someone can change, but the key is "THEY" have to want to do the hard work it will take which means IC, maybe even celebrate recovery at a local church (it's free), or anger classes for sure........

 

I didn't have anger problems but I had a lot of other issues I'm working on & I'm almost 50, so yes I do believe a person can change if they want to.....

 

I would also like to suggest you reading the book Boundaries by Henry Cloud. I feel if you could set boundaries when he gets angry it could help.

[Lizzie60]

Humm... I think he could change 'eventually'... probably after all the kids have left home... that could be in another 15-20 years.. IMO

 

For now.. I doubt anything will be better.. I don't believe in therapy... the issues are way too 'profound'.. and he's not 20 yrs old.. he's 50... a bit late IMO for therapy.

 

If I were you.. I would pack my bags and my kids and leave.. he is not a good role model for your kids.. some of your children will turn out just like him.. maybe not all.. but some.. for sure.

 

Your choice.. your kids or your jerk..

[Angel1111]

Everything you describe - the whirlwind courtship, being naive, leaving him, promises of changed behavior, blaming, accusing, walking on eggshells, etc. - is a classic verbally abusive relationship. The short answer is, no, he will not change. And here's a wake-up call for you - even the good times with him are part of the abuse cycle - because he knows that he can't abuse you all the time, so he takes breaks from it. As part of the cycle, good and bad in this relationship - it's all abuse. Think about it.

 

And, yes, he is that methodical.

 

Do yourself a favor and get the book, "Why Does He Do That? (inside the minds of angry and controlling men)" by Lundy Bancroft. He explains verbal abuse better than anyone I've ever heard. He has dealt with literally thousands of these cases and he tells you exactly the way it is. Read the book, and then leave that idiot that you're with. The truth is, he enjoys the power that he has over you, he enjoys belittling you and making you feel like you're walking on eggshells. As a matter of fact, he is more aware of the damage he's doing to you and the marriage and the kids than you are. The reason these men never change is because that feeling of power is a total rush to them, like cocaine. It's what makes them tick and they will not give it up under any circumstances. You can stay, you can leave, you can fight back, you can go quiet, you can beat him over the head with a baseball bat - nothing will change.

 

And the worst of it is that if you don't get out, then you'll never be able to teach your children what a normal relationship or life is. If you don't get them out of that situation soon, you'll find yourself watching them marry and have spouses who abuse them, and this will absolutely break your heart. The cycle will continue unless you stop it now. Even if he has the kids (after divorce) every-other-weekend, still the life you give your kids will give them a frame-of-reference and his behavior will be in such stark contrast to their life with him that they'll see that it's not the life they want. If you can't get out for yourself, then get out for the kids.

 

Read that book. It will open your eyes. And if you do intend to leave, expect your husband to cheat on you either before or after - this is a common tactic of theirs. Just understand that every action, everything that comes out of his mouth is designed to control and belittle you. Once you understand that, nothing he can say will have any effect. But I'm sorry to tell you that he won't change - and I think you've already seen this for yourself.

Edited December 4, 2009 by Angel1111

[nobmagnet]

I totally agree with angel. You have already given him a second chance to change his ways and he hasnt managed to maintain it He has not invested in your relationship at all. I know you have a massive brood of lovely kids and it wont be easy. But leave or kick himout before is screws up not only your life tut theres too. You did it once. do it for keeps.

 

Your ex sounds like mine. Its been 3 months now but he left earlier this year too. I have totally turned a corner. I am happy for once, therefore my kids are happier. WIN WIN. Let him grow old alone sitting in his own piss and smelling like a tramp you are too good for him. Tell your self you deserve more from life. Being a single parent will be little different from thelife you have now. It will however me minus one petulant child with power!!!! you go girl

 

xxxxxx

[Angel1111]

I totally agree with angel. You have already given him a second chance to change his ways and he hasnt managed to maintain it He has not invested in your relationship at all. I know you have a massive brood of lovely kids and it wont be easy. But leave or kick himout before is screws up not only your life tut theres too. You did it once. do it for keeps.

 

Your ex sounds like mine. Its been 3 months now but he left earlier this year too. I have totally turned a corner. I am happy for once, therefore my kids are happier. WIN WIN. Let him grow old alone sitting in his own piss and smelling like a tramp you are too good for him. Tell your self you deserve more from life. Being a single parent will be little different from thelife you have now. It will however me minus one petulant child with power!!!! you go girl

 

xxxxxx

 

You actually make a good point - he needs to leave the house, not her. Now, that may take a court order or the police, but don't leave that house with the kids. And definitely don't leave the house without the kids. The reason I say this is because of the kids, and because of the court system. The kids shouldn't have to lose their stability, and the court system frowns on the spouse who uproots the kids, or who walks away from them. Just remember that to the courts, the kids are king. They don't give a fig if you divorce or not, they probably won't even care about the abuse, but they do care about how the kids are treated.

 

Once you're separated, don't let him interject in your life or with the kids in any way. Come up with a visitation schedule right off the bat and make him honor it. Don't let him invade your home when he's not supposed to be there, because he will try this and he'll put on the most wounded, sad act you've ever seen. Be prepared for it and remember what I said - nothing he does is sincere even though his performance will be worthy of an Oscar. Talk to a lawyer, explain your situation, and then change the locks as soon as it's legal for you to do that.

[nobmagnet]

yep yep and yep again. I kicked mine out fortunately for me he has another

woman so he doesnt want to come back (hahahah lucky me!) but his new relationship will fail so he will do the oscar thing in the future and before february........yep, i would have tried again because I was weak. I am no longer weak. I will face the future head on because I know I am better off without him.

 

Please get legal advise first and then boot him out. It sounds harsh but you need to stay in your home. It will pay off in the long run trust me. I would give the same advice to a man too. You are a carer for those kids and they need stablilty not a nasty man putting you down, paying them no attention and causing a horrible atmosphere in a place of safety..............HOME.

 

good luck and keep posting xxx

Edited December 4, 2009 by nobmagnet

[WalkInThePark]

He was raised in a very abusive home-physical, emotional, verbal. His first wife divorced him after 17 years. I think they both had issues. I have been married to him for 9 years and we have 5 children between 2 and 8 years old. It was a whirlwind courtship and we married after only 4 months of knowing each other (probably my first mistake, but I was naive and trusting.)There have been a few incidences of destroying things, throwing things, and physically intimidating me. Mostly it is a constant state of walking on eggshells. He will get very angry about things and “go off” on a tirade. It could be about anything, but once he starts ranting it goes on and on and he brings in everything in his whole life that is wrong and how nobody around him ever does anything right and he is the only one in the world who is smart or good enough to get things right. We work together on projects and he is always yelling at me for bringing the wrong tool or not being in the right place. If I don't want to help he starts on about how I don't have the best interest of the family in mind and he doesn't get any help or participation and I must not care about our marriage. A year and a half ago I took the kids and left. He promised to make improvements so we got back together. Things were much better for a while, but he is again falling back into the pattern of yelling and guilt tripping and controlling. I try to tell him how I feel but he minimizes it and makes me feel like I'm the one with a problem. I feel like I'm at a crossroads. I believe strongly in marriage and don't want to just walk away, but can a man truly change after a lifetime of abusive behaviour? I want to suggest counselling for our marriage and as individuals, but we have talked before about how he doesn't think it really helps anybody, it just brings out false accusations and blame. I don't know whether to give it one more try or just give up.

 

You should read the books by Patricia Evans and Lundy Bancroft on abuse. They are great. They helped me after having been in a relationship with a man who was verbally abusive. It was horrible. It only lasted for a year but I felt really destroyed afterwards.

 

He's 50, people do not change easily at that age. And this kind of man most probably thinks he is always right and the others wrong, and such a stubborn jerk will even less easily change.

 

Don't forget that if you stay and undergo this treatment, it will affect your children. The boys might become abusive themselves, and the girls might themselves fall in love with an abuser.

 

A quick courtship can be a red flag indicating the possibility of abuse. They are in a hurry to trap you and once they have caught you, you can't get out anymore.

[WalkInThePark]

Do yourself a favor and get the book, "Why Does He Do That? (inside the minds of angry and controlling men)" by Lundy Bancroft. He explains verbal abuse better than anyone I've ever heard. He has dealt with literally thousands of these cases and he tells you exactly the way it is. Read the book, and then leave that idiot that you're with.

 

Angel, I hadn't seen your post when I mentioned Lundy Bancroft myself. Yes, that is the book she has to read. It is fantastic. It helped me so much to recover from an abusive relationship. The guy I was with never hit me so I was wondering all the time if it was abuse. But after reading Bancroft's book I have understood that abuse can also be verbal.

[Ronni_W]

... the issues are way too 'profound'.. and he's not 20 yrs old.. he's 50... a bit late IMO for therapy.

My mom started therapy in her 60s, and she managed to change some of her old, ineffective outlooks and attitudes, and heal some of her stuff.

As mentioned, though, it is up to the individual: first of all to WANT to improve things for themselves...and then to decide what issues they want to deal with, and how much self-awareness and improvement they're after.

 

camkeetai, you might want to suggest individual therapy to him instead of marriage counseling because that way he doesn't have to fear getting accused and blamed by anybody/you. In any case, it is that he needs individual, as norajane said. And he needs LOTS of it, over an extended period of time.

 

There are excellent therapists out there for whom no issue would be "too profound" or so deeply entrenched that they'd give up hope of being able to help their client. It's what the client brings current-day, that will effect the changes. If/when HE is ready and willing, it CAN be very beneficial for him.

 

Best of luck to all of you.

[floridapad]

IMHO people can grow but they have to want to do it for themselves. They have to see that how they are as a person does not make them as happy as they want to be and grow and learn about themsleves. This usually takes an epiphany. If your spouse hasn't had this then No the growth/change can not occur on a long term basis. Short term at best and then he would only be doing it for you.

[Angel1111]

Angel, I hadn't seen your post when I mentioned Lundy Bancroft myself. Yes, that is the book she has to read. It is fantastic. It helped me so much to recover from an abusive relationship. The guy I was with never hit me so I was wondering all the time if it was abuse. But after reading Bancroft's book I have understood that abuse can also be verbal.

 

I didn't notice your post - but that's cool that you recommended the same book. Well, I knew that what my ex was doing was abusive but I kept trying to make sense of it. Bancroft's book is the only one I read that actually explained what is going on in their heads and, once I understood that, my whole attitude toward my ex changed and I no longer wanted to be with him. I also liked the fact that Bancroft is a man and that he studied thousands of abusive personalities.

[Gunny376]

Can he change? Of course!

 

Is he likely to change? Probably not ~as most don't. I'm 52 but I've a commitment to perpetual and consistent self improvement ~ that is to say I try to be the best "Me" that I can be than I was the day before. I recognize that the person I was yesterday isn't good enough today. That I can do and be better.

 

Its a Marine Corps thing, and one of the fourteen Leadership Principles "Identify your weakness and seek self improvement"

 

Marriage / LTR are for in and for the most part about completing one's childhood, making the break from been dependent to being independent, self aware and autonomous.

 

More than half jump from being dependent upon parents and family straight into being mentally, emotionally, financially psychologically dependent upon someone else.

 

Learning to be single and alone ~ self dependent ~ autonomous ~ self supporting? Is really hard.

 

But that turns into being self validating, self supporting, self sufficient!

 

(Are you listening here? Togaz, LisaUK, SHB?)

 

The very thing you fear? Is the very thing you need to embrace!

 

Its very much a Spartian way of thinking. Which has merit. In its own right?

 

Numb the senses to the degree that you fear not fear. Embrace the cold!

Embrace your fear!

 

Not without morals nor a code. Not without honor and ethics?

 

You know what is right and wrong

 

God wrote it upon your heart the day you were born!

 

You know what is right ~ you know what the right thing is!

 

Just do the right thing.