Passionless marriage is eating away both of us from the inside

[hopeful1980]

Yes, on occasion. Especially when I can tell she's doing it out of "duty".

 

I'm sorry, but she has no respect for you as a man. She has sex with you to placate you, but she'll end up leaving you eventually. She's probably planning her exit strategy now and it probably revolves around when your child gets older.

 

I do not believe she doesn't like sex. I think she doesn't like you. I know that sounds harsh, but that's the feeling I get from what you've written here. It sounds like you are a great guy and that you genuinely want to make your wife happy, but she's not trying to make you happy because she doesn't think you deserve it. She's wrong. You do deserve her admiration and desire. You do deserve her respect. If you can find a way to awaken those feelings in her, I believe she will want to have sex with you again because she wants to and not because she feels it's her duty.

[eeyore1981]

Ouch. Now that's insightful.

 

Let me set this straight - she's not being "forced." It's not rape. Is it "traumatizing" for her? I don't get that feeling - it's something she is generally disinterested in. She claims that often once we get going, she enjoys it. She schedules (for lack of a better term) it weekly because that's how she feels comfortable negotiating our sex life. In fact, I don't often initiate anymore - the whole thing is on her terms, when she is comfortable. She makes it pretty clear that she does it as just another one of her "chores." When I try to initiate outside of that weekly cycle, I am generally rejected.

 

The problem is the "chore" factor. She does it out of some duty she feels to keep me happy and in the relationship, not because she truly wants to share it with me.

 

"We generally have sex maybe once a week on average, however sex to her is a complete and total chore she forces herself to do. She's indicated that it is the absolute last thing that she would really care to do. She's told me she takes days to get mentally prepared for sex, and that the act of trying to have sex and possibly achieve orgasm takes intense concentration of the likes she does not need to use anywhere else in her life. As a sign that her libido and desire for sex on any level (and not my desire to watch or anything) is completely dead, she also claims that she has no desire to masturbate and has not done so in years.

 

There is zero foreplay (every man's dream, right), it is a generally a very cold, calculated, scripted, and business like proposition. She's completely silent, makes no sounds, there's no passion or hardly any willingness on her part to want to be there. I've asked her what I can do to get her in the mood, even giving her several days notice or really scheduling sex. She has told me there is absolutely nothing that I can do that will get her in the mood."

 

The two paragraphs above belong to you. The first one explains how she feels about sex, and like it or not, a person who feels that way about sex and has it anyway is feeling forced. No one is going to go through that kind of trauma on a weekly basis out of a sense of duty.

 

The second paragraph, does that really sound to you like someone who is enjoying it? Actions speak louder than words, but you just don't want to hear it, so you aren't listening.

 

It doesn't sound like you are invested much in this marriage, so my advice is to go ahead with a divorce, go out and find someone who is as into sex as you are, and have a good life. Maybe your wife can work out her sexual issues or enjoy her sex-free life. But you at least owe it to her to help her financially until your daughter reaches school-age if she is currently a SAHM.

 

Right now all both of you are doing is damaging the other.

[shotinthedark]

I think she's just bored, mostly with you and in general. She sounds like a passionless person to me, not just in the sex department but in life. Reading magazines and watching TV every night? in bed by 9:30? what does she do on the weekends? Does she have friends? talk to anyone on the phone? Go out on the town? dress up flatteringly?

 

I'm guessing that she is one of those very "blah people". The are usually introverts and content with hanging out in their little space,usually square in shape. They wake up, eat, work, sleep, rinse and repeat day in day out. In addition to that, she sounds like she is ok being who she is so ofcourse, any attempt anyone makes to breathe life into her will be vigorously resisted. The hardest battle of all is trying to change a person who doesn't think there is anything wrong with him/her in the first place. She likes herself as is so of course you have absolutely no point to her.

 

I feel for you, it must be a frustrating existence. But you said that things go to be this way after the 1st year of being together. Man, you saw the writing on the wall and you basically ignored it.

 

She has a couple of "mom" friends that have kids that she will take our daughter and spend occasional "play date" time with on the weekends. Mostly talks to her mom on the phone - multiple times a day. Outside of one bachelorette / "True Romance" party at a co-workers house, she hasn't been "out on the town" or had a girls' night or anything like that in a very long time, I couldn't even tell you when. I know she's not interested in going out for a night on the town with friends. Pretty much the only time she sees friends is if we invite people over or drag the kid out to dinner somewhere for an occasional married folks' dinner with mutual friends.

 

She's dressed flatteringly for the three dates we've had since our daughter was born just over a year ago. Date = just me and her, no kids / friends / etc. for a night out. Must be home by 10pm for some imaginary reason. Getting her to agree to go on a date is very a difficult proposition any more, she doesn't want to get a babysitter and the only person she does feel comfortable asking to baby sit is (guess who!) her mom.

[shotinthedark]

Does that really sound to you like someone who is enjoying it? Actions speak louder than words, but you just don't want to hear it, so you aren't listening.

 

I'm hearing the actions, which is why I A) turn it down when I know a session is being offered that totally forced and B) am in MC about the whole thing.

 

It doesn't sound like you are invested much in this marriage

 

If I wasn't invested in this relationship (forget marriage), I would have ended this a very long time ago. I wouldn't be sitting here spending all of this effort to write about it on a message board on the Internet. I wouldn't be going to MC.

 

I'm curious as to what you think the proper course of action would be in my situation for someone who you would believe was invested.

[Agoraphobianebula]

She has a couple of "mom" friends that have kids that she will take our daughter and spend occasional "play date" time with on the weekends. Mostly talks to her mom on the phone - multiple times a day. Outside of one bachelorette / "True Romance" party at a co-workers house, she hasn't been "out on the town" or had a girls' night or anything like that in a very long time, I couldn't even tell you when. I know she's not interested in going out for a night on the town with friends. Pretty much the only time she sees friends is if we invite people over or drag the kid out to dinner somewhere for an occasional married folks' dinner with mutual friends.

 

She's dressed flatteringly for the three dates we've had since our daughter was born just over a year ago. Date = just me and her, no kids / friends / etc. for a night out. Must be home by 10pm for some imaginary reason. Getting her to agree to go on a date is very a difficult proposition any more, she doesn't want to get a babysitter and the only person she does feel comfortable asking to baby sit is (guess who!) her mom.

 

So you see this is something that has spilled over to other aspects of her life. Which is why someone else mentioned that it's probably not about sex, sex is only a symptom of a bigger "disease" she is battling. She's in her early 30s and she has immobilized her life like a person on the brink of death.

 

How old is her mom and what is she like as a person? I wonder what they have to talk about multiple times a day.

 

And how is your wife with your daughter? does she enjoy being a Mom? Does she throw herself into motherhood?

[shotinthedark]

How old is her mom and what is she like as a person? I wonder what they have to talk about multiple times a day.

 

And how is your wife with your daughter? does she enjoy being a Mom? Does she throw herself into motherhood?

 

The mom is mid 60s. I wonder what they talk about all the time, too.

 

She's great with our daughter, she loves being a mom. She has expressed an internal struggle between her career and wanting to be a SAHM, possibly finding a part-time job where she spend more time with her. I'd say motherhood is definitely at the forefront of her life right now.

[shotinthedark]

So you see this is something that has spilled over to other aspects of her life. Which is why someone else mentioned that it's probably not about sex, sex is only a symptom of a bigger "disease" she is battling. She's in her early 30s and she has immobilized her life like a person on the brink of death.

 

On that, I agree. Our mutual friends have noticed and expressed grave concerns to me over this as well. It has been where the majority of my true mistakes have been with her me trying to help her figure out what she wants out of life, trying to be supportive. She interprets it as me being a critical jerk who thinks she's worthless. Perception is reality, and I'm sure that my communication skills and methods of approaching the topic have really been terrible.

[eeyore1981]

I'm hearing the actions, which is why I A) turn it down when I know a session is being offered that totally forced and B) am in MC about the whole thing.

 

 

 

If I wasn't invested in this relationship (forget marriage), I would have ended this a very long time ago. I wouldn't be sitting here spending all of this effort to write about it on a message board on the Internet. I wouldn't be going to MC.

 

I'm curious as to what you think the proper course of action would be in my situation for someone who you would believe was invested.

 

Lol, if you say you are invested and want advice, it's all cool with me.

 

Let me tell you a little about myself first, as my opinions about sex seem to make people think I am a frigid ice queen who runs away shrieking at the mere mention of a penis.

I am a married woman who enjoys the sex so much, my H went out of town Sunday night and I am already feeling deprived.

 

This situation you are in did not happen overnight and is not going to be fixed overnight, if ever. If you want to work this out, you are going to have to have patience, and also understand everything you do may be for nothing. You can't make someone want to have sex with you, but maybe you can show her being with you is a wonderful thing, and sex is a natural expression of how much you both love each other and want to be part of each other.

 

If it were me, I would stop having sex with her for now. I would explain that the situation being what it is right now is not conducive for a healthy sexual relationship, and is liable to lead to resentment on both sides if it hasn't already. While you are having this talk with her, be where you are facing each other, and look at her with love and sincerety.

 

I know you are not going to stop wanting sex, but stop letting it show. Talk to your wife, find out what she is interested in, try to find things the two of you can do and enjoy together. If she enjoys spending time with your baby, do baby things, and show her what a wonderful father you are. If she likes to cook, sign you both up for a cooking class, go, and get into it.

 

If you are not physically intimate on any level right now, change that. Don't crowd her, but hold her hand whenever you can pull it off. Sit next to her when you are watching TV, with maybe just the back of your hand lightly against the outside of her leg. At night, make sure you have one hand or one foot touching some part of her body.

 

Stare at her. When she asks what you are looking at, tell her you are just thinking:

how much you love her

how much she means to you

how beautiful she is

how much better your life is with her

 

and smile when you say it, looking into her eyes.

 

Don't do all this stuff at once, start small. If she rejects you, don't take it personally. You are on a mission. For example, if she pulls her hand away, say something like, "Oh, honey, don't be like that, I've been thinking about you all day and just need you to hold my hand for a little bit."

 

That's all I have for now, I've got to run some errands.

[Angel1111]

The mom is mid 60s. I wonder what they talk about all the time, too.

 

She's great with our daughter, she loves being a mom. She has expressed an internal struggle between her career and wanting to be a SAHM, possibly finding a part-time job where she spend more time with her. I'd say motherhood is definitely at the forefront of her life right now.

 

She treats you like you've got a disease yet she's thinking about giving up her job for a part-time job to be home with the baby??? This is a woman so confident that you won't leave that she thinks she can do anything - even if it jeapordizes the marriage - and you'll stick around. Women like this astound me.

[shotinthedark]

Eeyore1981 - now THAT was insightful. I really appreciate what you wrote...thank you for spending some time for putting that together.

[Scottdmw]

I think some others have already given you good advice here. I would add that I think it's also important to have your own life in good order. Make sure you have some things you enjoy going on in life on your own. Have a hobby or pastime that does not involve her, that you are truly excited about. It can be something you do with other men or even by yourself at home, as long as you are genuinely interested in it and it makes you happy for its own sake. Spend some time on that on a weekly basis. In other words, make sure you have at least a small amount of life outside of your relationship. Many people will say, and I tend to agree, that sort of thing makes you more attractive to a woman. She doesn't perhaps want to be the whole focus of your life even if she says she does, and believes it herself.

 

Definitely do what others have said and try to solve the problems in the relationship. Just don't overboard and make solving the problems in the relationship the whole focus of your life. You can end up with a situation where your wife feels like she is “your problem to solve” rather than your wife. If you are 100% focused on solving that problem and not doing anything else, especially if she is not reciprocating, you can end up with a situation where over time you value the relationship more and more because you're putting so much effort in, while she values it less and less because she sees you putting so much effort in for so little back. She can perhaps actually lose respect for you that way.

 

Best wishes,

 

Scott

[mem11363]

First of all - accept that this is mission impossible and that she is broken in some unfixable ways. Accept that she is completely irrational and contradictory - I want separate finances - I want to be a SAHM - I want a divorce.

 

Recognize the goal is not to have sex - it is to create a situation - your wife looks at you in a way you won't even recognize - with respect - with happiness - with love.

 

Try some different things that she may like and each time do the most important thing in the world: Completely mask your desire not only for sex - but for her to react.

 

The other piece of the puzzle is to spend less time with her then she desires. Not a lot less time - but a meaningful amount less. Because the overall strategy is incredibly simple. You want to be more attractive and less available. Thats it. You want her to think more of you and GET less of you.

 

I want to note that I don't think this situation is fixable - however this exercise will make you an incredible husband for your next wife.

 

Treat it like a game - a video game of sorts. Do NOT measure progress on a relative scale as to how a normal human should react. Measure progress purely against the past year.

 

I believe where you will end up is this:

- Your wife will love you - in a limited sense

- She will respect you and be reasonably nice to you

- She will NOT have discretionary sex with you, she will be willing to have obligation sex with you but each time you take her up on that you will be doing some amount of emotional harm to both of you - which is quite sad.

 

I think the upper bound here - because of who she is - will be that you have a mostly nice wife who still does not like sex. I MIGHT be wrong but I don't think so. You will know within 90 days. And as you already know women who dislike sex find fault with even the best husband via reverse engineering. No matter what you do your motives will always be attacked. Normal wives simply don't do that.

 

 

 

 

Eeyore1981 - now THAT was insightful. I really appreciate what you wrote...thank you for spending some time for putting that together.

[lizzobizzo]

Do you want to put your kid through watching this? Try a trial separation. Initiate it yourself, do what you have to do for however long. It's far more damaging for everyone involved to stick this kind of abusive behavior out for the sake of a kid. She's wacked, in her own head, doesn't want to see your perspective, and at over 30 she's probably too far gone to repair. Short of slipping some LSD in her lemonade there's really nothing you can do to unpop that keg- she sounds locked tight, egotistical, and unlikely to change. Have a life. Be happy. At least try leaving for a little while and see what happens. See how you feel, and how you feel about coming back. And her too.

[hopeful1980]

I agree with Mem and Scott. Let her admire you from a distance. Make yourself unavailable and get a life outside your marriage. I'd even take your little one out for an afternoon just the two of you. Be a man. Your wife will respect you if you become unavailable to her.

[lizzobizzo]

I agree with Mem and Scott. Let her admire you from a distance. Make yourself unavailable and get a life outside your marriage. I'd even take your little one out for an afternoon just the two of you. Be a man. Your wife will respect you if you become unavailable to her.

 

yeah, maybe she'll respect you if you play games like she does. but again, would you want your kid to grow up watching you two play stupid games best reserved for dating? you want to be happy. define it on your terms. no game playing, cause an eye for an eye leaves us all blind. if you can't establish a relationship based on mutual attraction, trust, and love, then it isn't worth it.

[hopeful1980]

yeah, maybe she'll respect you if you play games like she does. but again, would you want your kid to grow up watching you two play stupid games best reserved for dating? you want to be happy. define it on your terms. no game playing, cause an eye for an eye leaves us all blind. if you can't establish a relationship based on mutual attraction, trust, and love, then it isn't worth it.

 

I'm not suggesting he play games. I think he should act like a man. He's reduced himself to try to make her happy. He fulfills her list of demands and has sex with her only on her terms. He needs to reclaim his life and go out and do something for himself. He needs some self care. That's not game plaiying, it's just good for the soul. In doing this he will become more attractive to his wife.

[Lizzie60]

I have not read the whole thread.. but here's my pov..

 

It will NOT get better.. ever.. from what I read, she's always been like that.. you 'thought' she would change in her 30s.. not sure who told you that.. but it doesn't ..

 

She doesn't love you like a lover would love her partner.. she loves you like a brother.. a friend..

 

I'm afraid you're stuck in a M that will never get better..

 

Therapy is waste of time and money.. IMO.. I don't care what people say about therapy.. for this type of problems.. nothing will help... she just HATES sex.. no one will make her change her mind..

 

from what I read.. she's not even willing to even try to change.. you're in a very sad situation..

 

My advice : tell her this: 'Honey.. I'm going to get sex outside our M.. deal with it'...

[hopeful1980]

I find it highly unlikely that she hates sex. People say that women in these situations don't like sex when really they don't like their husbands. If she was with a man she respected and admired she'd be on him like white on rice.

[Lizzie60]

Of course she doesn't like him.. in a romantic way.. she likes him as a brother.. he doesn't want a sister.. he wants a wife..

 

from other few posts I read.. methink she's a total control freak.. she wants her own account (which is OK).. she wants to 'schedule' sex.. she wants him to do this .. that.. when SHE wants.. etc..

 

OP.. run now.. or get a woman who will give you intense sexual pleasure..

[HeyThere]

The theme of this discussion is to focus on you – work, hobby(s), child…

 

I believe you are a better communicator than you give yourself credit for. I certainly can’t predict what this relationship will be in the near future.

 

Many MC’s say the spouse or SO one chooses, is to workout issue(s) that you never worked out with your parent(s). Interesting!

[Spoiled]

I find it highly unlikely that she hates sex. People say that women in these situations don't like sex when really they don't like their husbands. If she was with a man she respected and admired she'd be on him like white on rice.

 

So true. Very interesting thread.

 

I had many thoughts with reading this thread. My H and I drifted emotionally after the birth of our first child for several reasons, busy with parenthood, work, ill family members, and more. Our M was not top priority. My H and I went months at a time without sex. I was NOT interested for several reasons. A few hygiene issues of his, being worn out from constantly taking care of the baby along with working, housework, cooking, etc., not receiving any conversation, appreciation, or much support from him, AND feeling like the ONLY time he paid attention to me was when he wanted sex. Bothered the hell out of me. This lasted for two years. I then had a year long A. Whatever you do, avoid that as an option. Only makes things worse. MC and IC believe he was depressed during some of that time vs. having an A.

 

Women really get tired of men constantly harping about the sex but doing nothing for their wives. Do you sit and talk to her without the t.v. or laptop? Do you show interest in what she is reading? Have you tried watching her favorite t.v. show with her? Do you fix lunches? Do you feed the baby? Do you put her before your parents and friends? Or run every time they call you? Do you seriously encourage her to spend time with friends and/or have her activities? I know women who H's say that but then make them feel guilty or bad for wanting to do something without them. She may have tons of anger and/or resentment built up toward you. Or may not feel love and affection from you, may not receive any ego boost from you to make her feel more sexy and want to wear the lingerie and be loud in the bedroom. If you do none of those things for her, the last thing she wants to hear is you wanting sex.

[eeyore1981]

I don't understand where all this is coming from.

 

I see a post saying she has reduced him as a man and made him fulfill her list of demands, what list of demands?

 

I see several portraying her as a conniving, manipulative witch. I don't see any posts stating she is withholding sex for evil purposes, it has clearly been stated she has lost interest. And on and on.

 

Shot, do what you will. You know your wife better than any of us here. My thoughts on this are your wife is depressed, feeling neglected, unloved, unworthy, and unwanted. My reasoning for this is you have said (paraphrasing):

 

She has explained to you how she feels about sex.

She still makes an effort to have sex with you once a week.

She even at one time went out and bought lingerie. She didn't follow through, but to me, that is still an effort.

She has discussed with you working part-time to spend more time with your child, vs. just doing what she wants without asking input from you.

She overreacts when the two of you try to discuss marital issues.

Your description of her activities. (work, home, tv, bed by 9:30)

You feel you were 90% to blame. (sorry, forgot your list of why you felt that way.)

What your MC said about how she is feeling (forgot that,too )

The first year you two had hot and heavy sex.

 

I'm not an expert, I'm just your average person on the street, I may know nothing, so my opinion could be worthless. I just really think playing games and ignoring her and taking off and leaving her behind to 'make her miss you and have to chase you' is the wrong way to go and is going to make it worse.

[eeyore1981]

So true. Very interesting thread.

 

I had many thoughts with reading this thread. My H and I drifted emotionally after the birth of our first child for several reasons, busy with parenthood, work, ill family members, and more. Our M was not top priority. My H and I went months at a time without sex. I was NOT interested for several reasons. A few hygiene issues of his, being worn out from constantly taking care of the baby along with working, housework, cooking, etc., not receiving any conversation, appreciation, or much support from him, AND feeling like the ONLY time he paid attention to me was when he wanted sex. Bothered the hell out of me. This lasted for two years. I then had a year long A. Whatever you do, avoid that as an option. Only makes things worse. MC and IC believe he was depressed during some of that time vs. having an A.

 

Women really get tired of men constantly harping about the sex but doing nothing for their wives. Do you sit and talk to her without the t.v. or laptop? Do you show interest in what she is reading? Have you tried watching her favorite t.v. show with her? Do you fix lunches? Do you feed the baby? Do you put her before your parents and friends? Or run every time they call you? Do you seriously encourage her to spend time with friends and/or have her activities? I know women who H's say that but then make them feel guilty or bad for wanting to do something without them. She may have tons of anger and/or resentment built up toward you. Or may not feel love and affection from you, may not receive any ego boost from you to make her feel more sexy and want to wear the lingerie and be loud in the bedroom. If you do none of those things for her, the last thing she wants to hear is you wanting sex.

 

Yeah, and there are probably 500 stories on this forum just like yours. This is what I am saying, too. Would your husband ignoring you and finding outside activities to run out and enjoy while leaving you at home to your own devices have made you suddenly hot for him?

 

Not directed at Shot here, but my experiences come from most of my 45 years on this planet being very close, if not best friends with men, most of them married, and I have heard them complain and carry on about their crappy sex lives, and they can swear to me how wonderful they are to their wives, but I KNOW them, and I KNOW how they treat their wives, and what is in their head and the reality are two different things.

[mem11363]

Spoiled - your screen name, your attitude and your post are all entirely consistent. Though perhaps spoiled_deceitful_unapologetic while long, would be more accurate.

 

 

 

So true. Very interesting thread.

 

I had many thoughts with reading this thread. My H and I drifted emotionally after the birth of our first child for several reasons, busy with parenthood, work, ill family members, and more. Our M was not top priority. My H and I went months at a time without sex. I was NOT interested for several reasons. A few hygiene issues of his, being worn out from constantly taking care of the baby along with working, housework, cooking, etc., not receiving any conversation, appreciation, or much support from him, AND feeling like the ONLY time he paid attention to me was when he wanted sex. Bothered the hell out of me. This lasted for two years. I then had a year long A. Whatever you do, avoid that as an option. Only makes things worse. MC and IC believe he was depressed during some of that time vs. having an A.

 

Women really get tired of men constantly harping about the sex but doing nothing for their wives. Do you sit and talk to her without the t.v. or laptop? Do you show interest in what she is reading? Have you tried watching her favorite t.v. show with her? Do you fix lunches? Do you feed the baby? Do you put her before your parents and friends? Or run every time they call you? Do you seriously encourage her to spend time with friends and/or have her activities? I know women who H's say that but then make them feel guilty or bad for wanting to do something without them. She may have tons of anger and/or resentment built up toward you. Or may not feel love and affection from you, may not receive any ego boost from you to make her feel more sexy and want to wear the lingerie and be loud in the bedroom. If you do none of those things for her, the last thing she wants to hear is you wanting sex.

[Spoiled]

Yeah, and there are probably 500 stories on this forum just like yours. This is what I am saying, too. Would your husband ignoring you and finding outside activities to run out and enjoy while leaving you at home to your own devices have made you suddenly hot for him?

 

Not directed at Shot here, but my experiences come from most of my 45 years on this planet being very close, if not best friends with men, most of them married, and I have heard them complain and carry on about their crappy sex lives, and they can swear to me how wonderful they are to their wives, but I KNOW them, and I KNOW how they treat their wives, and what is in their head and the reality are two different things.

 

Glad someone has a clue.