Should I end my FWB relationship?

[Ruby Slippers]

So, I went on 6 or 7 dates with this guy starting a couple of months ago, and eventually, I told him I didn't see long-term potential and ended the official dating period.

 

Following a conversation with my counselor, an intelligent and compassionate woman I really trust and who has always given me excellent advice, I decided to try out a FWB relationship with him -- my first ever. The fact is it has been more than FWB. We have been doing most of the things you'd do in a standard relationship, without the commitment and obligations. I have been completely honest with him about where I stand, what I want, and so on, and I think he has, too.

 

But recently, he has begun to express more of his feelings for me, which were pretty apparent even before he spoke up. It is obvious that he has strong feelings. He treats me like gold and lights up anytime we're together. I have been considering something serious with him, but the barriers I see haven't changed much.

 

My counselor said the lesson I need to learn right now is to take care of ME, not my partner, and I know she's right. But the compassionate part of me feels guilty about having a pseudo-relationship with him until the real deal comes along. The idea of just cutting him loose once I meet someone with long-term potential seems heartless to me.

 

We have discussed all this very openly, and he says he is prepared for that to occur, and still wants to enjoy the time we can have together in the meantime. He says the fun, conversation, sex, and everything we have together are the best he's ever had, and if this is the framework in which he gets to experience them, he'll take it. He says if it gets to be too much for him, he'll end it.

 

I suppose it's up to him if he wants to keep himself in this situation. He's an adult, capable of making his own decisions. But I am still feeling like maybe I should end it, out of compassion for a wonderful guy that I do care about -- but just don't see as the guy for me.

 

What do you think?

[donnamaybe]

I had almost exactly the same situation several years ago. It turned out VERY badly. The guy was super hurt, and it ruined our friendship. I did feel terrible about it until he went psycho on me and started leaving me nasty voice messages and e-mails. I had to threaten him with police involvement to get him to stop.

 

Just something to think about.

[Ruby Slippers]

Wow, that sucks. Did you have any warning of the nasty behavior in advance?

 

How long was your relationship with him? Have you written about it on the forum? I'd like to read or hear more about the timeline, if you care to share.

 

Thanks.

[donnamaybe]

I knew him when we were teenagers. I hadn't seen him for about 30 years as I had moved away and had recently returned to the area. We were friends back in the day, and he started calling me. I was dead set against relationships at that point, and I told him so. We agreed to be friends only. We spent an entire day playing music (he plays piano, me flute, etc.), drinking wine. It was a lot of fun. But we differ in many MANY ways that would have made a relationship absolutely impossible. I would've wanted to throttle him in pretty short order! Here's an example: He thought it was a good idea to take his young son for a ride in his passenger car on a country road at 135 mph because he just simply thinks everyone should experience that at some point in their life. But I digress - it wasn't long before he started pressuring me to come over and share some "experiences" with him. Well, it'd been about 5 months since I'd had any, and because I am very simply quite a sexual person, it sounded like a good idea, providing he understood clearly that there would never be a relationship between us. He agreed, and it was on. Sometimes it would be at his place, sometimes mine. We would share dinners sometimes - just as friends. Pretty soon the "L" word came out (it was probably 2 months in) and I made it clear, very gently, that we wouldn't have anything like that between us and that I thought it was a good idea that we stop the FWB thing as I didn't want to further hurt him; could we just be friends? He assured me he would be fine with things the way they were. It went on another couple weeks, and no - it was NOT fine. He actually came to my house at 7 a.m. on a Sunday morning to see who was there with me, peeking in the windows and stuff! I did have two guy friends over - ONLY friends - who were sleeping on my living room furniture. We had been out the night before, and we all went to my place after closing time for some snacks and a little chat, then we crashed. That's when I knew it had to end, and made it clear this time. First he was doing the pleading thing, which made me feel awful, and then he slowly morphed into this rude, verbally abusive a-hole. After a short stint of this, I sent him an e-mail telling him to stop contacting me completely, whether it be phone, in person, or e-mail, then I printed a copy. After I saw he had read it, I then sent him an e-mail saying I printed the fact that he had read my message which contained the time and date read. I also told him I had printed all his abusive messages and had recorded his abusive voice mails so that I would have proof for when I needed to go to court if I had to. I still see him occasionally, but he knows now not to f with me.

 

Not saying your situation will turn out ugly like this, but the possibility is there when emotions run high.

[Ruby Slippers]

OMG, that is terrible!! Peeking in your windows!! (That is scary, but also kind of funny.)

 

It's a good example of how you can't always believe a guy who says he'll be fine with it.

 

I am pretty sure this guy wouldn't pull anything crazy like that. I've got his work numbers, know how to get in touch with his family. And he's all Zen Buddhist and cool as a cucumber. Since he's smart as hell and a great writer, I think he'd be much more likely to go with intellectual and emotional appeals. But I guess ya never know.

[stace79]

Just curious, but what are the supposed "barriers" to long-term potential. Also, I'm not sure why a counselor would direct you to have a FWB relationship with someone if you're supposed to be working on you. The point of working on you is being comfortable without someone around. This guy sounds sort of like your security blanket.

 

If you're truly never going to be anything more with him, I think you should end it. It's pretty cruel -- love is blind; if he really has those feelings for you, he's NOT going to do what's best for him.

[Stockalone]

I believe that FWB is always a terrible idea. I also disagree with your counselor, but that is a different topic.

 

That said, as long as you don't want out, you shouldn't end it.

 

He is capable of making his own decisions, and he will have to deal with the consequences of his choices. He is not a child that needs other people to make those decisions for him.

 

Maybe he really is okay with the status quo. Or he could be headed straight towards his doom. Personally, I don't think this will end well for him.

 

But if that happens, he has no one to blame for that but himself. It'll also teach him a valuable lesson.

[stace79]

I believe that FWB is always a terrible idea. I also disagree with your counselor, but that is a different topic.

 

That said, as long as you don't want out, you shouldn't end it.

 

He is capable of making his own decisions, and he will have to deal with the consequences of his choices. He is not a child that needs other people to make those decisions for him.

 

Maybe he really is okay with the status quo. Or he could be headed straight towards his doom. Personally, I don't think this will end well for him.

 

But if that happens, he has no one to blame for that but himself. It'll also teach him a valuable lesson.

 

So we should all just be selfish, heartless bastards who don't give a crap about anyone else's feelings, as long as we do what we want? That's an awful attitude.

 

Sometimes, if you're a decent person and you're not completely narcissistic, we do have to make decisions for the good of others.

[Ruby Slippers]

stace, it's hard to fully explain my reasons here, but I think he is holding himself back in his life and career for a few reasons, and I want to be with someone who's going for it. It doesn't matter to me what a guy does, as long as his heart is in it and he's passionate in his life. This guy has very wealthy and accomplished parents and has scored in the top 1% in the nation on various intelligence tests. So, his parents seem to have put a lot of pressure on him, and he on himself, to "be somebody". He seems to have sabotaged his former high-profile/high-earning career because the pressure was too great, and now he seems to have the attitude that the retail management job he's doing is beneath him -- yet he's been in the position for a while and has not made any real changes. Basically, it boils down to him having some obvious barriers and hangups about his life and work. I'm certainly not perfect, but I am going for what I really want in my life, and I want an equal partner.

 

My counselor's advice was to date freely, up to and including sex, to get out of my comfort zone. She seems to think I could benefit from easing up on the intense relationship orientation I have had in the past. I have always been looking for THE guy, not just any guy. It is true that I am learning a ton of new lessons, since I've broken my old pattern and am trying something new.

 

I don't agree that what I'm doing is cruel, since I have been 100% honest. Believe me, there is ample opportunity to manipulate the situation, but I couldn't do that. The other night, I told him this was starting to feel a little heartless. And he said, "You've got the biggest heart of anyone I know, and you have nothing to feel bad about."

 

Taking care of him is not my responsibility, but I still don't want him to get hurt. I am thinking the sooner I end things, the less hurt there will be.

[Ruby Slippers]

Another thing on my mind -- and this is all about taking care of me -- is that if there is emotional fallout, I don't want it bleeding into my next relationship, the one I hope will be stable and lasting. I think I owe it to myself and that relationship to go into it with a clear mind. That's the whole reason I chose to be single for a year after my last relationship -- so I could clear my psyche of the pain and fallout of that relationship, rather than dragging it into the next one.

 

I think it will be good for me to have that longing and aliveness that comes from being truly on my own and ready to embrace a romantic partner, when I do meet someone I see long-term potential with. It's easy and comfortable to have an activity/cuddle/sex partner, but maybe not the best choice in the big picture.

[stace79]

I understand the career thing. That's def a good reason.

 

As for being cruel, maybe you don't intend to be, but can you honestly tell yourself that someone blinded by love is going to think logically about removing himself from a potentially harmful situation?

 

I was in love with my ex-fiance way before he was in love with me, and he was truthful about still having feelings for his ex before me (when we first dated). He even broke up with me for her b/c she came sniffing around, and I should have said goodbye then and gone NC. But I didn't -- and he kept calling and talking with me and seeing me, all the while knowing full well I'd be hurt.

 

I knew deep down I should have stopped seeing him then too, but I wouldn't or couldn't bring myself to end things for good. So speaking from experience, I wish my ex had shut me out long ago.

[Ruby Slippers]

As for being cruel, maybe you don't intend to be, but can you honestly tell yourself that someone blinded by love is going to think logically about removing himself from a potentially harmful situation?

I believe it is each person's responsibility to make his/her own decisions, in love and otherwise. Yes, I would expect anyone to make decisions that are in his best interests.

 

No one is "blinded by love". We might choose to ignore our rational thoughts because we want to indulge in that chemical high, but we're never blind. Ignoring reality is a choice.

 

The only way my actions would be cruel would be if I'd lied to him, pretended to love him, and encouraged the development of feelings. But I've done none of that. On the contrary, I've been absolutely honest, even if he didn't want to hear what was true for me.

 

And believe me, this guy is smart enough to know what's going on. We've talked at length about the chemistry of sex and love, evolutionary stable strategy, bonding hormones, etc. He has admitted that my concerns about him are not without merit. He said he is aware he might not be able to "be the man I want or deserve", but said he wants to be involved with me to whatever extent will add happiness to both of our lives.

 

I am just trying to do the right thing.

[stace79]

I believe it is each person's responsibility to make his/her own decisions, in love and otherwise. Yes, I would expect anyone to make decisions that are in his best interests.

 

No one is "blinded by love". We might choose to ignore our rational thoughts because we want to indulge in that chemical high, but we're never blind. Ignoring reality is a choice.

 

The only way my actions would be cruel would be if I'd lied to him, pretended to love him, and encouraged the development of feelings. But I've done none of that. On the contrary, I've been absolutely honest, even if he didn't want to hear what was true for me.

 

And believe me, this guy is smart enough to know what's going on. We've talked at length about the chemistry of sex and love, evolutionary stable strategy, bonding hormones, etc. He has admitted that my concerns about him are not without merit. He said he is aware he might not be able to "be the man I want or deserve", but said he wants to be involved with me to whatever extent will add happiness to both of our lives.

 

I am just trying to do the right thing.

 

So if someone is depressed and steps out into a busy road while I'm watching, by your logic I shouldn't step in and try to help them -- just let them get smashed? Because after all, he/she is an adult and is entitled to make his/her own decisions...

[Stockalone]

So we should all just be selfish, heartless bastards who don't give a crap about anyone else's feelings, as long as we do what we want? That's an awful attitude.

 

Sometimes, if you're a decent person and you're not completely narcissistic, we do have to make decisions for the good of others.

 

While I don't agree with Ruby's counselor, I don't have a problem with people being selfish as long as they are honest.

 

I even agree with you, it would be nice if we lived in a perfect world. But we sadly don't.

 

This guy knows what he is agreeing to. If he is foolish enough to agree to something he doesn't want (which I think is likely the case but not certain), that is too bad.

 

Also, I'd be pissed if someone told me that they know better than myself what I want and what I can or can't handle, so they make decisions for me. That is fairly condescending. And if I remember correctly, that guy is in his late 30's. Not exactly an age where you need to be protected from reality.

 

Besides, what would shielding him from disappointment help? I don't think it would do him any good. He would just do the same thing in the future and get hurt then.

 

If this FWB continues and he can't handle it, he will have learned a valuable lesson and not repeat the same mistake in the future.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think there is nearly always going to be one person who gets hurt in a FWB situation. But I can't, nor do I want to, forbid people from making that choice for themselves.

[Ruby Slippers]

So if someone is depressed and steps out into a busy road while I'm watching, by your logic I shouldn't step in and try to help them -- just let them get smashed? Because after all, he/she is an adult and is entitled to make his/her own decisions...

I don't see that as a fair analogy. There is no benefit to stepping in the road and risking getting hit by car -- unless your goal is to commit suicide. However, there are many benefits to the relationship we have, which both of us are enjoying.

 

I think a fair comparison, to use your example, would be: If a depressed person steps into the road, getting in the way of traffic, and I don't risk my life to save him, do I bear any responsibility for any injury he may sustain? The obvious answer is no.

 

Also, I'd be pissed if someone told me that they know better than myself what I want and what I can or can't handle, so they make decisions for me. That is fairly condescending. And if I remember correctly, that guy is in his late 30's. Not exactly an age where you need to be protected from reality.

Yes, and I have gotten that reaction from him before -- he acknowledges the compassion of me checking in with him on his feelings, but says I don't owe him that courtesy and he doesn't need it. He says he is fully aware of the reality, and accepts it. He also said he wouldn't want me to get involved with him more seriously if it detracted happiness from my life, and he only wants me to be involved with him to the extent that it is good for me -- and that goes both ways. He says he's not going to make pie-in-the-sky promises just to try to win me over, but will always be himself and be honest about his strengths and limitations, and I respect that tremendously.

 

Another part of this that I am realizing is hard for me is that I do like him a lot, and am very tempted to see what happens if we do take this further. He has so many attractive qualities and we connect on so many levels that it's hard to keep myself from daydreaming about more. Rationally, though, I see the limitations, and want to protect myself and invest wisely in my next relationship.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Ruby Slippers

[donnamaybe]

You know, RS, as for the issues that are keeping you from pursuing a R with this guy, maybe he's trying to find that "happy medium" between being a retail clerk and a hard driving workaholic. Was his dad a "hands on" sort, or was he always at work while mom did the home stuff?

[Ruby Slippers]

You know, RS, as for the issues that are keeping you from pursuing a R with this guy, maybe he's trying to find that "happy medium" between being a retail clerk and a hard driving workaholic. Was his dad a "hands on" sort, or was he always at work while mom did the home stuff?

His dad is a high-power, high-earning guy who has won numerous distinctions for his work, and this guy followed in his career footsteps. His mom never worked, and this guy has expressed some disdain for the fact that his dad worked his ass off to provide an extremely comfortable lifestyle for his mother and the family, suggesting his dad could have "been more", "done more", if not held back by his familial obligations. According to what he has said, he himself did his work very well and was well on his way to being the "somebody" he envisioned being. But I do think maybe he got burnt out on the 12+ hour days, grueling workload, and ego race.

 

So, once he lost his job, he moved here and redirected his energies to his family, who live in this area, and began helping out a lot with his nieces and nephews. I think he let that be a substitute for a real adult relationship and a family of his own because of a fear of intimacy, or not feeling he had made it and was ready for all that himself. He has said numerous things that have suggested this fact to me.

 

He also now pursues some of his other interests, including volunteering weekly, which I really admire. And he ruminates about going back to his former work and pursuing that again, and has painted me alongside him in that picture of long-term success, travel, and "the high life". I have told him that while all that's nice, it's not my priority. My priority is real compatibility, long-term stability, happiness -- not wealth or flash. I would never trade steak for sizzle. I don't care how much he earns or how much acclaim my partner has -- I care that we are truly compatible and happy together.

 

He has also said that maybe we can be "just friends" or whatever for now, and I will reconsider a real relationship with him once he's back on his "serious" career track. He said, "I've known for a while now that it's time to 'grow up,' and meeting you has put that fact squarely in my face."

 

But the reality is that if we don't stick together, it is likely that I will meet someone else in the near future and pursue a relationship with him.

[Peaceful Guy]

What do you think?

 

i seriously think something might be wrong with your counselor. and that's kind of ****ed up in a real way.. for real.

[Peaceful Guy]

but then, i get the feeling you and me are from diff. worlds ruby..

[Peaceful Guy]

i seriously think something might be wrong with your counselor...

 

it sounds like she's playing with your life.. and you like it, because she gives you permission to do things that you know are wrong(for you).. and that's easier than struggling with uncertainty like i assume you were before. but this isn't okay.. if you don't follow your instincts you could put yourself in a dangerous situation.. im not joking.. you can write this off if you want, but i really do feel this way.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Peaceful Guy

[Ruby Slippers]

PG, I have been talking to my counselor for years, and I don't feel she has once led me astray. Not only is she a counselor -- she works at one of the most prestigious universities in the country training grad students to become counselors. My smartest friend (a total whiz) went through dozens of counselors before she found this one -- the only one she thought was smart and capable enough to provide solid guidance. And I agree with her. No one else even comes close.

 

She did not come right out and advise me to have a FWB relationship... but she did encourage me to multi-date, since I've never done it, and consider the possibility of having a sexual relationship that is not part of some big, uber-committed thing, if I wanted one -- something I have never done. She advised me to pay careful attention to my feelings and thoughts as I get out of my comfort zone in this way, and we will talk about all that next time.

 

You might not agree with FWB relationships, but that does not make them evil.

[Peaceful Guy]

You might not agree with FWB relationships, but that does not make them evil.

 

evil and healthy are diff. things.. and i don't even think they're always unhealthy.. but i remember talking to you about that hot guy.. don't cast me as a judgemental uptight person because im not.. im not condemning your decisions.. ****, i just really get the feeling that this isn't you..

[Peaceful Guy]

dude, the last time we talked you said one thing,, and i had my read on it,, and you were like.. no, its not that way.. and then later you went and did exactly what i said i thought you were going to do.. at least that's how i remember it.. ill go back and check it out again but i wanted to say this even if im wrong because that's partially where im coming from.. be back in a minute..

[Peaceful Guy]

okay, so i found and reread the "when a super hot guy asks you out?".. you're a user, no doubt about it. you think that you can act how you want, and so can everybody else.. so hey, if their feelings are hurt its their problem.. well, that's sociopathic in the sense that you seem to "lack a sense of moral responsibility or social conscious".. and that's the vibe i get from your counselor.. just lookin out for number one, right? later rubes..

[SadandConfusedWA]

Ruby, your reasons for not wanting to pursue a LTR with this guy are beyond ridiculous. I do not know what kind world you live in, but you need to get out of the clouds and face reality. Your perceptions of people and yourself are way off. Your counselor sounds like she has issues.