Should I end my FWB relationship?

[Dolos]

If you care about him you should end it. Stringing him along until somebody better comes along seems cruel to you because, well, it is. Despite what he says he isn't being rational about this, he will never stop seeing you of his own volition. Him saying that he will end it if it gets to be too much for him is the equivalent of the alcoholic saying that he will stop drinking once it becomes a problem. The issue is they never see it as a problem, and he will never see it as being "too much for him to handle". It doesn't matter how intelligent he is, even smart people can make stupid choices. You can justify it and dress it up however you wish with logic and reasoning, but what you're doing to this guy is pretty heartless.

 

Another way to look at it is that he is likely in love with you, and you are not in love with him. You are looking for something better, when you meet someone who you see long term potential with you will act on that. I can almost guarantee you your friend is not looking at any other women right now. He isn't looking for something better because as long as hes with you his feelings are going to prevent him from seeing anyone as being better. You don't want an actual relationship with him, but you are preventing him from finding someone who actually wants to be in a relationship with him.

 

Finally, you said that you don't want any emotional fallout to carry over to your next relationship when you finally meet someone better. Whether you end this because you don't want to string this guy along anymore, or because you meet someone else, there's going to be emotional fallout, so you might as well get it out of the way sooner rather than later if you don't want to deal with it at the beginning of your new relationship.

 

Also, after reading some of the responses in this thread, i just want to point out I'm not saying it would be wrong for you to continue seeing this guy until you meet someone else. Honestly if i was in your position i would probably keep seeing him (well, her, but you get the point). Your friendship with him is done as soon as you meet someone else no matter what, so you might as well enjoy it as long as you can. But you should at least realize that you're using him, and what you're doing is in the long run not good for him.

 

So this ended up being a lot longer of a response than i really intended. Short version of what im trying to say is if your feelings are the most important consideration and if you think you can keep the inevitable fallout from messing with your relationship with whatever better guy comes along, keep seeing him, why not enjoy it while it lasts. Conversely if his feelings are important to you, or if you want to get the fallout out of the way before you enter into a long term relationship, end it with him sooner rather than later.

 

edit: I also agree with the post above mine. The reasons you listed for not dating him are pretty out there. I assume theres more that you aren't saying here that leads you to believe that a ltr wouldn't work out with this guy, but if the only reasons are the ones in this thread i think you're being pretty ridiculous.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Dolos

[donnamaybe]

His dad is a high-power, high-earning guy who has won numerous distinctions for his work, and this guy followed in his career footsteps. His mom never worked, and this guy has expressed some disdain for the fact that his dad worked his ass off to provide an extremely comfortable lifestyle for his mother and the family, suggesting his dad could have "been more", "done more", if not held back by his familial obligations. According to what he has said, he himself did his work very well and was well on his way to being the "somebody" he envisioned being. But I do think maybe he got burnt out on the 12+ hour days, grueling workload, and ego race.

 

So maybe he's just "overcorrected" himself, so to speak, for now. Maybe he listened to "Cats in the Cradle" and had an epiphany and has done full tilt in the other direction. He could level out at some point.

 

I totally understand not wanting to become someone like his dad. What good does all that money and power do if you aren't with the family?

 

What does he say when you bring up your feelings on the subject?

[Ruby Slippers]

What does he say when you bring up your feelings on the subject?

He says I'm right, he wants to stop spinning his wheels, and he plans to get back on his intended career track. He told me that I have asked him questions and revealed elements of his character and patterns that no one else has, that he sorely needed to know. This seems to be what I do.

 

But I don't like the implication that he's going to change FOR me, to be with me. That's just not the way to do it. It sets up all kinds of unhealthy dynamics, and in my experience makes for poor staying power.

 

That's my pattern: meet a guy who's not quite on my level (fixer-upper), he is wowed and wants to reform himself to "be what I need", but the changes he needs to make are too big and take too long for us to forge an equal partnership in a timely way.

 

Now, I have learned that what I need to do is work on and improve myself, and hold out for someone who's on my level from the get-go, rather than invest my time and energy in another fixer-upper who I learn a year or two in has structural deficiencies.

[SimplyBeingLoved]

That's my pattern: meet a guy who's not quite on my level (fixer-upper), he is wowed and wants to reform himself to "be what I need", but the changes he needs to make are too big and take too long for us to forge an equal partnership in a timely way.

 

Now, I have learned that what I need to do is work on and improve myself, and hold out for someone who's on my level from the get-go, rather than invest my time and energy in another fixer-upper who I learn a year or two in has structural deficiencies.

 

"Fixer-upper"? Wow, that sounds so clinical and cold. Gives me a chill, reading it.

 

It sounds like you are mainly looking for a mate to validate your existence and social status. That may make you happy for a few years, but not for the long run. You could end up as "business partners" but lacking in love and companionship.

 

Since you're already going for what you want in your career, why do you need a man who is "on your level" in his? Where does "love" factor into your decision?

[Ruby Slippers]

^ You've got a totally erroneous read on me. I'm a major softie and have taken huge risky leaps for love in the past. Now I'm 33 and single. If I want a meaningful relationship and a family -- and I do -- I don't have time to waste on unsuitable men anymore. This has very little to do with career choice, and a whole lot to do with love for life. A person who does not have a healthy love of life is not capable of loving himself or me the way I want to be loved.

[Ruby Slippers]

We had a really great time together this weekend, and I can't ignore the fact that we pretty much always have a great time together, on many different levels. So, I am leaning toward giving him a real shot. I'm not jumping into anything, but I am going to try to let down my guard a little and let the connections happen. He's coming over tomorrow for dinner, and Thursday we're going out with two of my closest friends to do fun holiday stuff.

 

It may not work out, but you never know unless you try, right?!

[donnamaybe]

I think you're making a wise choice, RS. If the only "sticking point" is his ambition, that may come "unstuck." After all, with the family history of his dad being a workaholic, like I said before, he could just be struggling with trying very hard to NOT become that person. I'm betting things will even out in that regard, and if everything else is good...

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah, I am starting to think I judged him too quickly, simply because I was afraid of getting hurt again and trying to protect myself. Through spending time with him, I have learned that he is very hard-working, persistent, and just downright tough. He doesn't have an ounce of lazy in him. If he got off that career path, I think he probably did it for a good reason, not because he couldn't hang.

 

I don't know where it's going, but I have to say it's nice spending time with a guy who is clearly crazy about me. It shows in everything he does and says. He looks at me with this glow on his face, and it makes me glow. I feel sexy and beautiful when we're together. I am trying not to let this all go to my head, but I am enjoying it!

[donnamaybe]

What a happy post! I LOVE IT!!!!

 

You just enjoy it girl!!!

[sugarmomma]

Yeah, I am starting to think I judged him too quickly, simply because I was afraid of getting hurt again and trying to protect myself. Through spending time with him, I have learned that he is very hard-working, persistent, and just downright tough. He doesn't have an ounce of lazy in him. If he got off that career path, I think he probably did it for a good reason, not because he couldn't hang.

 

I don't know where it's going, but I have to say it's nice spending time with a guy who is clearly crazy about me. It shows in everything he does and says. He looks at me with this glow on his face, and it makes me glow. I feel sexy and beautiful when we're together. I am trying not to let this all go to my head, but I am enjoying it!

 

Well it sounds like more than FWB to me. Ruby its okay to be honest with yourself if you have some real feelings for him.

 

I used to judge men based on ambition, charm, good looks and personality.

 

Now I would give anything to have a man that shows me that he respects my feelings, honors who I am as an individual, cares and shows genuine concern and is faithful and honest. As I get older I look more at a man's character and integrity as opposed to the things that really don'e matter like where he works.

 

I wish you the best. He sounds like a good guy.

[Ruby Slippers]

I used to judge men based on ambition, charm, good looks and personality.

 

Now I would give anything to have a man that shows me that he respects my feelings, honors who I am as an individual, cares and shows genuine concern and is faithful and honest. As I get older I look more at a man's character and integrity as opposed to the things that really don'e matter like where he works.

 

I wish you the best. He sounds like a good guy.

Thank you! I think he is. And he has all the qualities you outlined here, even those in your ideal guy column, so I don't think it's a bad idea at all to give it a chance.

 

I think the best thing I can do right now is get to know him more and have a good time. If I do that, things will be OK no matter how they turn out.

 

He is coming over tonight, and I am really excited.

[sugarmomma]

Thank you! I think he is. And he has all the qualities you outlined here, even those in your ideal guy column, so I don't think it's a bad idea at all to give it a chance.

 

I think the best thing I can do right now is get to know him more and have a good time. If I do that, things will be OK no matter how they turn out.

 

He is coming over tonight, and I am really excited.

 

I am so happy for you that you're willing to open your heart to the possibilities.

 

Best Wishes!

[Ruby Slippers]

Well, my heart was wide open, but last night was kind of weird. Too much to tell the whole story, but basically I feel like our connection runs hot and cold. I have felt all along that he has some defenses built up around himself. It seems like he's afraid to care about me. And given my indecision about him and us, I can't say I blame him for protecting himself. But a large contributing factor to that indecision was his obvious barriers. So, I am getting the sense that our relationship, whatever it is, might be spiralling downward.

 

I do think our interactions have been too volatile so far to amount to anything sustainable and stable, and that makes me really sad. I'm sad that he seems to be a really great guy with some undeniable barriers to having a meaningful relationship with a romantic partner. But there's nothing I can do to change that.

 

I am not closed to things improving or developing in a positive way, but my expectations are low.

[sugarmomma]

Well, my heart was wide open, but last night was kind of weird. Too much to tell the whole story, but basically I feel like our connection runs hot and cold. I have felt all along that he has some defenses built up around himself. It seems like he's afraid to care about me. And given my indecision about him and us, I can't say I blame him for protecting himself. But a large contributing factor to that indecision was his obvious barriers. So, I am getting the sense that our relationship, whatever it is, might be spiralling downward.

 

I do think our interactions have been too volatile so far to amount to anything sustainable and stable, and that makes me really sad. I'm sad that he seems to be a really great guy with some undeniable barriers to having a meaningful relationship with a romantic partner. But there's nothing I can do to change that.

 

I am not closed to things improving or developing in a positive way, but my expectations are low.

 

Ruby, Can you be a little more specific without too much detail? Like what volatile interactions?

[Ruby Slippers]

Basically, he told me that a month ago, when I broke things off and we went to not dating but still spending time together in a coupley way, he tried to hold back any feelings that were growing for me and not get his hopes up.

 

Now that I seem to be opening up to him more, he feels the hopes bubbling up again, but he said it's a scary feeling because it's when you get your hopes up the most that you are disappointed and hurt the most. I understand that. I feel it, too, of course. God. Of course!

 

And it came through the whole evening -- this wavering from him. In the conversation, the affection, the sex. Burning hot, then cold. Close to me then 100 miles away. How do I keep finding these guys?

 

Then again, it hasn't been just him wavering. We are like two wild animals circling each other, totally intrigued and magnetized but also wary as hell.

 

I'm not going to sweat it. You can't wring your hands over this stuff. I'm doing my best, being honest, communicating, trying to take care of myself and also be respectful and fair to him. That's all I can do.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Ruby Slippers

[sugarmomma]

Basically, he told me that a month ago, when I broke things off and we went to not dating but still spending time together in a coupley way, he tried to hold back any feelings that were growing for me and not get his hopes up.

 

Now that I seem to be opening up to him more, he feels the hopes bubbling up again, but he said it's a scary feeling because it's when you get your hopes up the most that you are disappointed and hurt the most. I understand that. I feel it, too, of course. God. Of course!

 

And it came through the whole evening -- this wavering from him. In the conversation, the affection, the sex. Burning hot, then cold. Close to me then 100 miles away. How do I keep finding these guys?

 

Then again, it hasn't been just him wavering. We are like two wild animals circling each other, totally intrigued and magnetized but also wary as hell.

 

I'm not going to sweat it. You can't wring your hands over this stuff. I'm doing my best, being honest, communicating, trying to take care of myself and also be respectful and fair to him. That's all I can do.

 

 

Okay. I wouldn't put much more of myself out there if I wer you. Let his energy come to you.

[Ruby Slippers]

Good advice, and I will take it.

 

He brought me lovely flowers and a beautiful vase to put them in last night. The flowers are blooming beautifully today. I am touched.

[Ruby Slippers]

Oh, I remembered something he said a couple of weeks ago that I found strange. I'm not sure if he was joking (I don't always get his sense of humor), but he said something flattering about my appearance, then said, "I'm sure people who see us together wonder whether I'm rich or I have a big dick."

 

And I joked back: "Good thing it's both."

 

I kind of think he meant what he said, because he has made other comments to suggest I am "out of his league" and he feels a little insecure because of that. But I definitely don't get why he would think that. He's cute, sexy, and fit, and I definitely see him as on my level appearance-wise.

 

I was thinking maybe this helps explain the dynamic going on. Opinions?

[Dolos]

Its nice to see you decided to give him a real shot. It seems like hes a little insecure about his appearance, or at the very least just finds you so attractive he doesn't think he deserves you. Take this together with your earlier attitude toward him and he may think you're settling. Try and make it clear that you want to be with him not just because you didnt find anyone better, but because you actually want to be with him. Its possible hes still holding back because if he thinks you're settling he may still expect you to drop him if someone else comes along, so he doesn't want to get too attached.

[donnamaybe]

Well, my heart was wide open, but last night was kind of weird. Too much to tell the whole story, but basically I feel like our connection runs hot and cold.

 

You've made it clear you want nothing more than friendship and sex, so this is completely understandable. Have you made him aware of your change of heart? If not, I'm not surprised he's hot and cold. And yes - he SHOULD be afriad if he is still under the assumption that you aren't willing to give a R with him a chance.

[Ruby Slippers]

Yeah. I guess we need to TALK. Of course, he's a guy and doesn't seem to like talking very much. But given the way things have unfolded with us, I guess if we're going to give this a real go, we need to communicate what we're thinking and feeling about it.

 

Now that y'all bring this up, I think it's also important for me to find out what he's looking for. For all I know, he just wants fun and sex. He said in the beginning he was hoping to move toward a girlfriend/boyfriend situation, but I think people have different ideas of what that means, and from what he says, even his more serious relationships have seemed more casual than any of mine.

 

I did tell him that I was taking the advice that some of my friends gave me, which was to keep getting to know him, have fun, and give it a chance.

 

He told me that a girl was hitting on him on the train the other day, and he threw in something about "my girlfriend" (meaning me) to get her off his back. "I hope you don't mind," he said. Given the context, I thought it was cute and sweet. And maybe it's a clue that he still wants that? Who knows?

 

But y'all are right. We just have to sit down and get it all out on the table. I'm supposed to see him tonight (haven't gotten any calls or texts since the other night, which is unusual, so I'm thinking he might bail), and if I do, we'll talk.

 

Thanks, everybody. It's helpful to get your input!!

Edited December 17, 2009 by Ruby Slippers

[Ruby Slippers]

Its nice to see you decided to give him a real shot. It seems like hes a little insecure about his appearance, or at the very least just finds you so attractive he doesn't think he deserves you. Take this together with your earlier attitude toward him and he may think you're settling.

Yeah, I was thinking about this more last night and remembered some other things he has done and said. I think he knows he's a good-looking dude. I went with him last weekend on his birthday to get a tattoo, and the very sexy male tattoo artist made several comments about how in shape he is. Then he said he wanted to give him a birthday hug. He was undeniably hitting on him. Yes, I took many pictures.

 

Earlier in getting to know each other, before doubts and weirdness crept in, he would tell me how beautiful and hot he finds me. A couple of times he'd just gaze at me, then say all serious and sweet, "Ruby, you are so beautiful." I'd just smile, blush, say thank you, and cuddle up with him. Once when we were about to get down, he said he never thought he'd get to go to bed with someone so hot. I just laughed, then got back to kissing. I just assumed he was being sweet. I mean, he's a cute guy in great shape. I find it hard to believe I'm the best-looking girl he's been with. Maybe he means it, but after my last guy (who was not great in this department), I'm not used to all the verbal expressiveness, so my gauge may be off. I certainly can't deny that he has treated me like a queen.

 

Try and make it clear that you want to be with him not just because you didnt find anyone better, but because you actually want to be with him. Its possible hes still holding back because if he thinks you're settling he may still expect you to drop him if someone else comes along, so he doesn't want to get too attached.

That's good advice. I will talk to him tonight and let him know exactly where I stand.

[Ruby Slippers]

We just talked on the phone for a while, and now he's on his way over.

 

And the truth comes out!

 

During the conversation, he said he thinks he's "an average-looking guy" and I'm "incredibly attractive", and he thinks I could probably do better than him. He said, "I wouldn't be surprised if someday you left me for someone better-looking than me."

 

I really don't understand why he feels this way. I'm cute, but I'm not all that! And he's very cute and sexy! Why is he feeling so insecure? Is his mind just magnifying me because he really likes me? He's tall and slender, and he keeps making comments about how he needs to work out/bulk up. He's totally cut, just not beefy, and I love it! I have told him, but he still says he wants to get back to the gym.

 

I don't know. We'll see if this is a barrier that can be pushed through or not.