Kristie16 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I'm just wondering...a lot of women are upset when their SO wont propose after several years, have kids or "move to the next step," but in some cases there seem to be signs that the guy was never willing to marry. So why do the women continue to hope that he'll change? why do they stay around with status quo instead of actually leaving and maybe giving him a wake up call? Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Because wanting to marry someone generally means you love them, enjoy being with them, and see them as your life partner. It's hard to walk away from that when things are good between you. Those pesky emotions get in the way. Link to post Share on other sites
ADF Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Frankly, I think it is because many women fail to appreciate how often men dread the idea of getting married. Woman tend to view marriage as the logical goal of a committed, LTR. They assume men must feel the same way. But men do not. Men tend to associate marriage with a loss of freedom, the end of youth, and fear financial ruin in the case of divorce. Nowadays, there is nothing men want--love, sex, companionship--that they can get in marriage that they cannot get just as easily without getting married. Men simply have no real incentive to get married anymore. Men see nothing to gain by getting married and--potentially--a great deal to lose. Frankly, I think most men get married because they feel they have to, not because they want to. Many women just haven't grasped how much men DON'T want to get married. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Many women just haven't grasped how much men DON'T want to get married.Perhaps they'd grasp it if men explained that clearly? Or explained it before moving in together or getting into a long term relationship with a woman who clearly does want marriage for her future? Or explained it before they have children with them, which some men do, yet still keep talking about "one day" in the future for marriage? Link to post Share on other sites
Lauriebell82 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Perhaps they'd grasp it if men explained that clearly? Or explained it before moving in together or getting into a long term relationship with a woman who clearly does want marriage for her future? Or explained it before they have children with them, which some men do, yet still keep talking about "one day" in the future for marriage? Yes, this is what I think it is as well. There are some cases when women do move in with their SO even AFTER their boyfriend's have already told them they have no plans to marry. This is not in all cases, but some men do tend to string their gfs along (unintentionally or otherwise) with promises of marriage and being together forever. But the actual proposal doesn't happen! So their gfs are left confused and frustrated and just *hoping* that one day they will get over it and finally marry them. That coupled with the fact that it IS hard to leave someone you love, women just tend to stick around hoping and waiting. Link to post Share on other sites
Tethys Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Frankly, I think it is because many women fail to appreciate how often men dread the idea of getting married. Woman tend to view marriage as the logical goal of a committed, LTR. They assume men must feel the same way. But men do not. Men tend to associate marriage with a loss of freedom, the end of youth, and fear financial ruin in the case of divorce. Nowadays, there is nothing men want--love, sex, companionship--that they can get in marriage that they cannot get just as easily without getting married. Men simply have no real incentive to get married anymore. Men see nothing to gain by getting married and--potentially--a great deal to lose. Frankly, I think most men get married because they feel they have to, not because they want to. Many women just haven't grasped how much men DON'T want to get married. I agree with you completely. I never saw the point of marriage and it's only after thinking about it alot (b/c my girlfriend really wants to get married) that I can kindof see the point and might actually want it, but I'm miles from where I was even a year ago. Link to post Share on other sites
streetlamp Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I guess we hope they'll change their minds after they realize how fantastic we are. *smile* Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 I agree with you completely. I never saw the point of marriage and it's only after thinking about it alot (b/c my girlfriend really wants to get married) that I can kindof see the point and might actually want it, but I'm miles from where I was even a year ago. Did you tell your gf from the beginning that you hated the idea of marriage and never wanted to be married? Or did you wait until she started talking about it to express how you felt about it? Link to post Share on other sites
ADF Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Perhaps they'd grasp it if men explained that clearly? Or explained it before moving in together or getting into a long term relationship with a woman who clearly does want marriage for her future? Or explained it before they have children with them, which some men do, yet still keep talking about "one day" in the future for marriage? I agree with you completely. One of the cruelist things men do is hide the fact they don't want to marry. They string women along, letting them believe that "one day" they'll change their minds. It is a horrible, hurtful thing to do. Link to post Share on other sites
samsungxoxo Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Stringing can be awful but if 2 or more years passes by, then obviously the woman would have to be straight forward about it and if he doesn't meet her criteria then go on to dumping him, find someone who has similar ideas way in the beginner. To say it's solely the man's fault for stringing them along, what about the woman's fault for not talking way early instead of waiting 5+ years and no proposal, then getting disappointed when dumped after long years.... Talk about it earlier and put a deadline in your mind... Link to post Share on other sites
Lauriebell82 Posted December 11, 2009 Share Posted December 11, 2009 Stringing can be awful but if 2 or more years passes by, then obviously the woman would have to be straight forward about it and if he doesn't meet her criteria then go on to dumping him, find someone who has similar ideas way in the beginner. To say it's solely the man's fault for stringing them along, what about the woman's fault for not talking way early instead of waiting 5+ years and no proposal, then getting disappointed when dumped after long years.... Talk about it earlier and put a deadline in your mind... Well, a lot of men freeze up or get scared when their gfs bring up marriage (no matter what context) at the beginning of a relationship. They are afraid they will either scare them off or be putting unintentional pressure on them to make a decision. PLUS, just because a man says that he wants to get married in general at the beginning of a relationship doesn't mean he wants to marry his gf at the time or even a few years down the road. Unfortunetly men seem to hold the power in a relationship when is comes to proposals/marriage. Link to post Share on other sites
ADF Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Stringing can be awful but if 2 or more years passes by, then obviously the woman would have to be straight forward about it and if he doesn't meet her criteria then go on to dumping him, find someone who has similar ideas way in the beginner. To say it's solely the man's fault for stringing them along, what about the woman's fault for not talking way early instead of waiting 5+ years and no proposal, then getting disappointed when dumped after long years.... Talk about it earlier and put a deadline in your mind... Sure, a woman who waits 5+ years for a proposal may have poor judgement. But men have the greater fault for stringing women along. Men always complain that women expect them to read their minds--why should a woman be able to read a man's mind about marriage? Link to post Share on other sites
Miko Posted December 12, 2009 Share Posted December 12, 2009 Men don't see the point in getting married until 1 of 2 things happens. 1. They realize they're going to lose the girl if they don't 2. They start to...gasp! Want kids!! Both of these can happen VERY quickly so someone who has zero interest today just might be dying to get married in 6 mos or a year. Link to post Share on other sites
datura_noir Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I have to reply to this, as I was with my now H for 9 years before marriage. We and another couple-friend got together about the same time; when we got married, they were sooo shocked-well, HE was. They have been together for as long as us, and I know SHE wants to get married, he keeps saying "someday" when things are right, blah blah blabbity blah.... Still no wedding date...and, she gave up the dream of ever having a child, because he already had three, and was done. I'm pretty sure she is now realizing the consequenses of not setting an ultimatum... Link to post Share on other sites
Author Kristie16 Posted December 13, 2009 Author Share Posted December 13, 2009 I have to reply to this, as I was with my now H for 9 years before marriage. We and another couple-friend got together about the same time; when we got married, they were sooo shocked-well, HE was. They have been together for as long as us, and I know SHE wants to get married, he keeps saying "someday" when things are right, blah blah blabbity blah.... Still no wedding date...and, she gave up the dream of ever having a child, because he already had three, and was done. I'm pretty sure she is now realizing the consequenses of not setting an ultimatum... Doesn't setting an ultimatum backfire? The guy might marry you but its only because he's basically forced to? I've just always heard that ultimatums are bad too... Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) Doesn't setting an ultimatum backfire? The guy might marry you but its only because he's basically forced to? I've just always heard that ultimatums are bad too... No, you don't set an ultimatum for him. You set a time for yourself by which you will walk away if he hasn't chosen to propose by then. And if he doesn't do it by then, you walk. No ultimatums. You just remind yourself, well, we've been together x years now and he doesn't seem interested in marriage and hasn't proposed. But that is important to me and it's something I need in my life, so I have no choice but to seek that with someone else. A man knows whether he wants to marry you or not if he's been with you for a while. How long you choose to stay with him beyond that "while" is up to you. But he's not going to become more interested in marriage if you've already been together for years just because you keep sticking around. Edited December 13, 2009 by norajane Link to post Share on other sites
Boundary Problem Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I don't think you need to set an ultimatum. I'm hesitant to employ heavy-handed tactics - it just isn't in my nature. Here is what I did with my ex-husband: 1. Mom suggested we live together first, to make sure it would work 2. Moved in on understanding would get engaged in about 9 months if all was going well. 3. All went well. 9 months comes and goes. 4. He wanted to get pregnant, but I didn't want to without marriage. 5. Stalemate. 6. I then said "OK I'm going to book separate vacations from you this summer and I'm going to do my own trips this summer". 7. We were engaged a week later, married about 6 months after that. But yeah, I would have moved out if things hadn't progressed. If you want it - you have to insist on it. But it doesn't have to get ugly. Just be firm and be prepared to slowly separate out your lives. When you are a couple it isn't 1 big cable binding you. It is a 1000 tiny threads. And just slowly start disengaging one thread at a time, and they will get the message, without having to cut an artery. Link to post Share on other sites
samsungxoxo Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Doesn't setting an ultimatum backfire? The guy might marry you but its only because he's basically forced to? I've just always heard that ultimatums are bad too... But what's better setting an ultimatum or waiting endless for year and years till the woman ages and no proposal? At least with the ultimatum, it's telling him that she's not going to wait for ages into it. Link to post Share on other sites
Ross PK Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 Frankly, I think it is because many women fail to appreciate how often men dread the idea of getting married. Woman tend to view marriage as the logical goal of a committed, LTR. They assume men must feel the same way. But men do not. Men tend to associate marriage with a loss of freedom, the end of youth, and fear financial ruin in the case of divorce. Nowadays, there is nothing men want--love, sex, companionship--that they can get in marriage that they cannot get just as easily without getting married. Men simply have no real incentive to get married anymore. Men see nothing to gain by getting married and--potentially--a great deal to lose. Frankly, I think most men get married because they feel they have to, not because they want to. Many women just haven't grasped how much men DON'T want to get married. Excellent post ADF, you've got it spot on there. Link to post Share on other sites
Crusoe Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) What I dont understand is how a woman can want to marry a man, to sign a document stating she will spend the rest of her life with him, and also want to leave him if he doesn't marry her within a specific timescale. Does the marriage mean more than the person? If so, a fella would be wise not to marry. Edited December 13, 2009 by Crusoe Link to post Share on other sites
venus-blue Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 It seems difficult to give anyone you love a sense of security if you always keep a deadline on your relationship. Ultimatums are basically threats that would never be acceptable in a new relationship. If someone is truly your companion there is no doubt, marriage or not. You should not have to force marriage. Love should be the real union , marriage just being a celebration. Link to post Share on other sites
Mary3 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Perhaps they'd grasp it if men explained that clearly? Or explained it before moving in together or getting into a long term relationship with a woman who clearly does want marriage for her future? Or explained it before they have children with them, which some men do, yet still keep talking about "one day" in the future for marriage? I loved ADF's response above. Why won't men tell her in the beginning ? Because he would not get much sex. Imagine a Marriage Minded girl who is just beginning to date a man. ... He will either lie all along about wanting to marry her or he will be truthful in the beginning about marriage in general.. She can choose to believe him and walk away or she can force an ultimatum ( who would do that ) What risk does he have ? That she will go away and he realizes the sex gravy train is stranded at the Station...with no real future that he might have lead her to believe...... Link to post Share on other sites
eXtremeMan Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 What's the point of getting married? I can get anything I need from normal relationships, without getting married. As someone mentioned beforehand, for us men marriage is often nothing but a loss of personal space, freedom and financial security. Now, women are going to come up and say "but if you really love each other, you should get married". Well, if you do "love" each other, shouldn't you stay with your partner for the sake of your love, instead of threatening them with dumping unless they come around? I sometimes get the feeling that some women are more in love with their own agenda than with men they claim to "love". What makes you think a signature on a piece of paper will make a difference when it comes to your long term happiness? If you truly appreciate the man you're spending time with, why not love him for who he is, instead of his agreement to the terms of contract. Honestly, I'd never get married, because even outside marriage (in fact, especially outside marriage) I get laid, I get affection from women and things are always kept fresh. Who gives a damn about some outdated societal concept that exists solely to keep people enslaved. Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Why are women so keen on getting married but then the man does marry her and he wants to commit she does a 180 and all of a sudden wants a divorce a few years later? Men see the high divorce which is mainly driven by women and it scares them. Men actually do want to get married but they are scared of ending up with a walkaway wife. Just look at some of the posts on this board to see what men are so afraid of. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 To be honest with you I don't understand why women want to get married. It sounds odd coming from me who has been married more than once, but it seems all the hard work falls on the woman. Women are working, coming home cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, and then having to be a sex goddess or otherwise run the risk of dealing with a cheating husband. Whew! I need a nap! The next thing you know she is looking and feeling a mess. I wish our hormones would knock it off already and let us be free!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
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