Hiring someone who has been fired?

[CarrieT]

What I mean was you can hire a company called Rehire.com ( or something like that ) and they call your employer pretending to be a prospective employer and they document what the company says about you. Some of it may be illegal....( I dont know the laws , perhaps some here who hire or work for HR can elaborate ? )

 

 

She already did that -- read back a few pages.

[Lauriebell82]

She already did that -- read back a few pages.

 

No, I didn't hire an ACTUAL company, I had a friend do it. I didn't even know you could hire people to do that kind of thing.

[Lauriebell82]

I wish I would have gotten an exit/termination interview, then at least I could have talked about this to them in further detail. They just gave me a letter saying that they were releasing me from my position and told me to get out.

[carhill]

The difference is a professional business can follow rules of collecting evidence if you were contemplating a lawsuit against a former employer. In your case, you just want another job. I think, if you keep at it, and especially network with other therapists, you'll find one. Don't rule out volunteer work with charitable agencies as a possibility. People know other people and that's how jobs get filled, sometimes without a lot of 'official' stuff.

[Lauriebell82]

The difference is a professional business can follow rules of collecting evidence if you were contemplating a lawsuit against a former employer. In your case, you just want another job. I think, if you keep at it, and especially network with other therapists, you'll find one. Don't rule out volunteer work with charitable agencies as a possibility. People know other people and that's how jobs get filled, sometimes without a lot of 'official' stuff.

 

Yea, but my company is disclosing that I didn't meet their standards. Couldn't that fall under the category of defamation? Because obviously that sounds like I got fired and is basically a bad reference. And the problem I am having is that I don't know what standards I didn't meet. I was never told. So I don't know what to say in an interview and because the statement is so vague employers can assume I got fired for a pretty bad reason, not wearing pants that were too long for me and wearing an engagement ring.

[Lizzie60]

Okay... are the jobs you're applying for related to social work...

 

I would advise you NOT to go back in that field.. It is clearly not for you.

 

If you are applying as a cashier in a department store, for example... you can tell them that you were let go because it wasn't the right field for you and you weren't happy there.. and you are now trying to focus your energy on finding work that will make you happy and will be fulfilling... or something along those lines..

[Lauriebell82]

Okay... are the jobs you're applying for related to social work...

 

I would advise you NOT to go back in that field.. It is clearly not for you.

 

If you are applying as a cashier in a department store, for example... you can tell them that you were let go because it wasn't the right field for you and you weren't happy there.. and you are now trying to focus your energy on finding work that will make you happy and will be fulfilling... or something along those lines..

 

The field IS for me, I love it! I don't want to get out of it. Unfortunately the COMPANY wasn't a good fit, not the field. I am an excellent and hard working counselor. A friend of mine told me she got one of my clients and they were heartbroken and shocked at my departure. I loved my job too. At one time they told me they thought I was doing an excellent job and were so glad I was there.

[Lizzie60]

Oh well.. good luck then... because I honestly think this field is not for you..

 

From what I've read so far of you (from your job and your personal life).. you will never keep a job as a counsellor.. unless the company doesn't give a 'hoot' about their professionalism.. sorry for being harsh.. but this is my honest opinion..

[Lauriebell82]

Oh well.. good luck then... because I honestly think this field is not for you..

 

From what I've read so far of you (from your job and your personal life).. you will never keep a job as a counsellor.. unless the company doesn't give a 'hoot' about their professionalism.. sorry for being harsh.. but this is my honest opinion..

 

Wow, thanks for sparing my feelings there.

 

You don't know me, only what I've said. You have no clue what I have done at my job so your remarks are just judgements basically.

[amerikajin]

Right, except I wasn't downsized... So it's a little different.

 

The first piece of advice might be to not bring it up in the interview, but that's difficult. People usually want to know why you are no longer employed, which brings me back to what I said earlier.

 

I really think that it's better to be straight up and tell the truth. I think people who don't know you will respect you more if you do this than they would if you are evasive or make up crap explanations about the whole thing. There are indeed sometimes when people get pushed out of the way because of politics, and in those cases, you could indeed say things like you weren't a good fit and that you wish them well. But in this case, I think you already know why you were asked to leave, right? You admitted yourself that you were late and had multiple issues that landed you on probation. I would not catalog all of these -- that's not necessary. But if asked, I would give a summary explanation that explains what happened. You can be generic if you want and say something like, I probably assumed that they were satisfied with my performance but that this was a mistake on my part. You learned from this, have had time to reflect on it yada yada. I think if you do that, you might not get the job, but you increase your chances. But if you give mealy mouthed excuses, you're probably as good as done right then and there.

[carhill]

Laurie, if you're considering any sort of official (like to the government) complaint and/or legal action, I would encourage you to stop talking with us immediately. Get legal advice. Avoid any contact, either directly or through 'friends', with your former employer.

 

OK, with that out of the way, I'd like to support what Lizzie is attempting to outline to you. IME, both with our psychologist (professionally) and with the counselors/psychologists we have as personal friends and/or business associates/customers, I've noted a commonality amongst all; they have a very measured way of dealing with life. Sometimes it's frustrating to me since I'm sensitive and animated, but that's the reason I notice the difference.

 

I loved psychology in college, and the mind still fascinates me, but I see Lizzie's point about the difference between that passion and making it work as a professional career. Truthfully, I'd probably be a wreck. Dealing with my mom's mental illness nearly killed me. I'm guessing that stuff (your mom) is still in the back of your mind while you're dealing with this. I can't offer much advice other than to take each day as it comes and consciously slow down reactions; take a breath.

 

Hope it works out. Hug your fiance

[Lauriebell82]

Laurie, if you're considering any sort of official (like to the government) complaint and/or legal action, I would encourage you to stop talking with us immediately. Get legal advice. Avoid any contact, either directly or through 'friends', with your former employer.

 

OK, with that out of the way, I'd like to support what Lizzie is attempting to outline to you. IME, both with our psychologist (professionally) and with the counselors/psychologists we have as personal friends and/or business associates/customers, I've noted a commonality amongst all; they have a very measured way of dealing with life. Sometimes it's frustrating to me since I'm sensitive and animated, but that's the reason I notice the difference.

 

I loved psychology in college, and the mind still fascinates me, but I see Lizzie's point about the difference between that passion and making it work as a professional career. Truthfully, I'd probably be a wreck. Dealing with my mom's mental illness nearly killed me. I'm guessing that stuff (your mom) is still in the back of your mind while you're dealing with this. I can't offer much advice other than to take each day as it comes and consciously slow down reactions; take a breath.

 

Hope it works out. Hug your fiance

 

I'm not contemplating any legal action. I just want another job!

 

It's interesting but most addictions counselors are ex addicts. (I'm not though) And what makes it barable to hear some of the stories and the horrible things they have been through is to remember that you have been in tough situations and had to deal with bad things happening. So I suppose being a tad "screwed up" helps work with those types of clients because you can better relate. That's just my opinion though.

 

And to be clear: None of the reasons I were fired for were directly related to my ability as a counselor. Just little mistakes due to lack of experience really.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Lauriebell82

[TwinkletOes26]

First off let me say WOWWWW at some of these answers. The way some people are acting you would think they knew lb personally and actually watched her in action.

 

Lb dont let people get you down this is part of why i quit asking anything on here because people love to try to drag others down. I personally dont think that based off of why you said you were fired it had any thing to do with your abilities as a counselor. If you main passion is helping ex drug addicts then i say dont give up. The economy is in the crapper right now but it will get better.

 

Ive said before earlier and ill say it again if everyon who has ever been fired wasnt rehireable then there wouldnt be many people working. I think maybe figure out a way to positively spin the fact that you got fired. Maybe if you know a friend in the field get them to help you out. Maybe even volunteer for a month and get a good reccomendation from the peeps there.

 

DONT GIVE UP dont allow people who dont know you to tell you what your skills are and arent. In the end all of us on here should be no more to you than words on a screen. I dont know you personally and neither does anyone else. All we know is what you have said and our own interpretations of it.

[allina]

I need clarification.

 

First you said that your fiance called your old job and said he was a recruiter, and that they told him that you "weren't a good fit."

 

Now a friend called them and they told your friend "she didn't meet our expectations."

 

Please please don't have all these people calling your old job pretending to be an employer, once was bad enough.

[threebyfate]

I haven't read any of this thread but allina's post made me curious. Were you officially let go "for cause" or were you laid off? If it's the latter and they're expressing to others that you weren't a good fit or didn't meet expectations, you may have grounds for a civil suit. If so, consult with an experienced employment lawyer in your jurisdiction.

[allina]

 

It's interesting but most addictions counselors are ex addicts. (I'm not though) And what makes it barable to hear some of the stories and the horrible things they have been through is to remember that you have been in tough situations and had to deal with bad things happening.

 

So this is a way you CAN spin things.

 

Interviewer- Why were you let go from your prior position?

 

You- At X position my co-workers all had a lot of experience in the field, as well as with overcoming addiction themselves, I was a young counselor, fresh out of college. While I enjoyed the position a great deal and excelled at my work with patients, my supervisor decided that my lack of life and work experience didn't make me a good fit for the position. It was very disappointing to to not be able to demonstrate my full skill and dedication to my old employer, but I'm looking forward to getting back in to counseling and helping people. I would be thrilled to be given the opportunity to work here and thrive as a counselor with your organization."

[Lauriebell82]

I haven't read any of this thread but allina's post made me curious. Were you officially let go "for cause" or were you laid off? If it's the latter and they're expressing to others that you weren't a good fit or didn't meet expectations, you may have grounds for a civil suit. If so, consult with an experienced employment lawyer in your jurisdiction.

 

My letter says: we are releasing you from your position because you do not meet our standards and did not make enough improvement after being put on probation. That's all the letter said and my supervisor gave me no further clarification.

 

So yeah, I was let go for cause I suppose, but do not know EXACTLY what the reason was (the details).

 

Allina: No fiance called my old job as a recruiter and asked about my performance (supervisor said he couldn't disclose) and then fiance asked why I left and he said that "I didn't meet their standards." He was the only one who ever called.

 

I LOVE YOUR RESPONSE. That is excellent. It goes along with the whole "doesn't meet standards" reasoning also. It doesn't sound extremely negative either. You HR people think alike lol, my dad suggested that I talk about my inexperience as well. I mean really, I think that really was part of why I was terminated. Most of the things they said were just things that come with experience in the field (anxious, hemming pants). I will also stress that I have learned and will not be doing those things in my future jobs.

 

But yeah, I am definately going to go with that response, it's excellent and it's the truth!

[Art_Critic]

So this is a way you CAN spin things.

 

Interviewer- Why were you let go from your prior position?

 

You- At X position my co-workers all had a lot of experience in the field, as well as with overcoming addiction themselves, I was a young counselor, fresh out of college. While I enjoyed the position a great deal and excelled at my work with patients, my supervisor decided that my lack of life and work experience didn't make me a good fit for the position. It was very disappointing to to not be able to demonstrate my full skill and dedication to my old employer, but I'm looking forward to getting back in to counseling and helping people. I would be thrilled to be given the opportunity to work here and thrive as a counselor with your organization."

 

[curiousnycgirl]

My letter says: we are releasing you from your position because you do not meet our standards and did not make enough improvement after being put on probation. That's all the letter said and my supervisor gave me no further clarification.

 

So yeah, I was let go for cause I suppose, but do not know EXACTLY what the reason was (the details).

 

UGH see the challenge is you flip flop. Based on what you said earlier, I was ready to suggest you say that due to the economy your former employer was forced to downsize and you were the newest hire/still on probation and therefore the one they chose.

 

But what you say above is not consistent with a down sizing.

[norajane]

Most of the things they said were just things that come with experience in the field (anxious, hemming pants).

Hemming pants? Really? I don't get it. How long could your pants possibly have been that still allow you to walk in them, but require hemming? How can your pants be so long that your supervisors actually note this? I can understand too short skirts, too tight clothes, too low cut. But long pants?

 

LB, how long were these pants?

[carhill]

Sounds like, for whatever real reasons, they wanted her gone. I've been on the other side of this and have heard the discussions. Building the case for dismissal. Making it legal. Making it bulletproof.

 

Getting fired from one's first professional job can really hit the confidence. That was why I (and IIRC others) suggested networking and doing volunteer work. Build up the social rapport and appreciation level to bolster confidence and perhaps catch the attention of someone who can provide a pathway to employment. They don't call it 'social services' for nothing

[jerbear]

Sounds like, for whatever real reasons, they wanted her gone. I've been on the other side of this and have heard the discussions. Building the case for dismissal. Making it legal. Making it bulletproof.

 

Getting fired from one's first professional job can really hit the confidence. That was why I (and IIRC others) suggested networking and doing volunteer work. Build up the social rapport and appreciation level to bolster confidence and perhaps catch the attention of someone who can provide a pathway to employment. They don't call it 'social services' for nothing

 

I know this happens behind close doors all the time.

 

I've been networking like mad, volunteering, being active in local events/politics/chamber of commerce, corporate alumni events, and even university associations.

 

In the last few weeks, I've met so many people and even get a quick FYI of what is going on in the world.

 

Back on topic: I suggest the OP do some volunteering to rebuild her network and to keep her skills fresh and up to date.

[TwinkletOes26]

Sounds like, for whatever real reasons, they wanted her gone. I've been on the other side of this and have heard the discussions. Building the case for dismissal. Making it legal. Making it bulletproof.

 

Getting fired from one's first professional job can really hit the confidence. That was why I (and IIRC others) suggested networking and doing volunteer work. Build up the social rapport and appreciation level to bolster confidence and perhaps catch the attention of someone who can provide a pathway to employment. They don't call it 'social services' for nothing

 

Thank you this exactly. I think that based off of what lb has said this is exactly what happened. I mean people can get a virus on a computer just checking email ya know. Saying some one has anxiety issues because they were running to a group meeting because they were late is extreme. This is the main reason here i feel that she was being singled out.Diagnosing a employee with a disorder bc she was running down the hall? really?

 

Lb maybe you should have gone to a counselor and have them run test to see if you experience any symptoms at all for anxiety. Obviously they would have said no but you know to keep in your own files in case you did want persue a law suit. These people sounded kinda shady.

 

Anyways chin up lb things will work out.

[Pink Cupcakes]

Was your position filled after you were let go? If not, it probably was for budgetary reasons and you really could use that as the reason for being let go.

However I still vote for trying it leaving it off your resume. It just states list your employment history, doesn't state anything like "don't leave anything out if you worked somewhere" right? Also, technically, if you don't consider it as a real job that you had, it was really in your mind just a learning experience, then it's not really lying because you don't consider it as a true part of your employment history. I wouldn't. I actually went to a counselor when I was in a similar situation and he advised the same thing.

[Star Gazer]

You don't have to lie.. just position your words so that the EXACT reason is left up for interpretation by the interviewer

 

LB...please, please, DO NOT LIE, even by inference. Do NOT say you were laid off, when you were terminated. Do not put words in your ex-employer's mouth to state a reason for your termination that you do not know to be true. Most of Allina's suggested response is AWESOME, but I would remove the part where she says what your employer was thinking. Your industry isn't all that big, and I'm sure people chat behind closed doors about these things. So above all, be honest.

 

So, I'd edit it to read:

 

Interviewer- Why were you let go from your prior position?

 

You- At X position my co-workers all had a lot of experience in the field, as well as with overcoming addiction themselves, I was a young counselor, fresh out of college, and was not quite ready or qualified for that particular position. It was very disappointing to to not be able to demonstrate my full skill and dedication to my old employer, but I'm looking forward to getting back in to counseling and helping people. I would be thrilled to be given the opportunity to work here and thrive as a counselor with your organization."

 

None of the reasons I were fired for were directly related to my ability as a counselor. Just little mistakes due to lack of experience really.

 

Do you realize that they go hand in hand? That your experience is DIRECTLY related to your ability as an counselor?

 

The first piece of advice might be to not bring it up in the interview, but that's difficult. People usually want to know why you are no longer employed, which brings me back to what I said earlier.

 

I really think that it's better to be straight up and tell the truth. I think people who don't know you will respect you more if you do this than they would if you are evasive or make up crap explanations about the whole thing. There are indeed sometimes when people get pushed out of the way because of politics, and in those cases, you could indeed say things like you weren't a good fit and that you wish them well. But in this case, I think you already know why you were asked to leave, right? You admitted yourself that you were late and had multiple issues that landed you on probation. I would not catalog all of these -- that's not necessary. But if asked, I would give a summary explanation that explains what happened. You can be generic if you want and say something like, I probably assumed that they were satisfied with my performance but that this was a mistake on my part. You learned from this, have had time to reflect on it yada yada. I think if you do that, you might not get the job, but you increase your chances. But if you give mealy mouthed excuses, you're probably as good as done right then and there.

 

Best advice in the thread, IMO.

 

Yea, but my company is disclosing that I didn't meet their standards. Couldn't that fall under the category of defamation?

 

No, it's not. Defamation requires the statement be untrue. The truth is, you didn't meet their standards. Telling the truth is not illegal or defamatory.

 

My dad who works in HR told me that legally they can get away with saying that kind of thing as long as they don't disclose directly that I was fired.

 

Hmm. Your dad isn't correct.

 

The fact of the matter is this: Your ex employer can say ANYTHING his heart desires about your employment history, so long as what he says is factually true or a legitimately held opinion. If you quit, he cannot say you were fired - as that would be untrue. If you were fired for tardiness, he cannot say you were fired for stealing - as that would also be untrue. He CAN say that he was not satisfied with your performance, if indeed he wasn't. He can also say that you didn't meet the company's standards, if indeed you didn't (or he at least legitimately believed you didn't).

 

The reason most employers don't do more than verify dates of employment and salary isn't because saying more is "illegal," but because it's just a lot easier to avoid lawsuits (lawsuits, even when you've done NOTHING wrong, are still expensive and a pain in the arse).