Hiring someone who has been fired?

[Phateless]

Laurie, if you're considering any sort of official (like to the government) complaint and/or legal action, I would encourage you to stop talking with us immediately. Get legal advice. Avoid any contact, either directly or through 'friends', with your former employer.

 

OK, with that out of the way, I'd like to support what Lizzie is attempting to outline to you. IME, both with our psychologist (professionally) and with the counselors/psychologists we have as personal friends and/or business associates/customers, I've noted a commonality amongst all; they have a very measured way of dealing with life. Sometimes it's frustrating to me since I'm sensitive and animated, but that's the reason I notice the difference.

 

I loved psychology in college, and the mind still fascinates me, but I see Lizzie's point about the difference between that passion and making it work as a professional career. Truthfully, I'd probably be a wreck. Dealing with my mom's mental illness nearly killed me. I'm guessing that stuff (your mom) is still in the back of your mind while you're dealing with this. I can't offer much advice other than to take each day as it comes and consciously slow down reactions; take a breath.

 

Hope it works out. Hug your fiance

 

I understand what you're saying here, but you have to consider the context. What you know of LB is only a very small snapshot. In fact, most people who come here and post are in their most insecure and frazzled states; that's why they're posting!

 

If she was feeling level-headed and handling it perfectly on her own with no need for input, why would she post? So you see why I feel you are getting a skewed perspective here.

 

Not saying you are right or wrong, just pointing out the flaw in your logic and Lizzie's.

[SadandConfusedWA]

I understand what you're saying here, but you have to consider the context. What you know of LB is only a very small snapshot. In fact, most people who come here and post are in their most insecure and frazzled states; that's why they're posting!

 

If she was feeling level-headed and handling it perfectly on her own with no need for input, why would she post? So you see why I feel you are getting a skewed perspective here.

 

Not saying you are right or wrong, just pointing out the flaw in your logic and Lizzie's.

 

Well, add me to the list with Lizzie and carhill. We have all read many of LB's posts and this IS advice giving forum so this is an arena that LB as a counsellor should excell in. Yet, she has shown no insight in herself or others. It feels like putting a square peg into the round hole. I feel like she would be more suited to other occupations but it's a pity that she won't consider that.

[Pink Cupcakes]

SadinWA, I think you are projecting your own insecurities in your abilities and in yourself by judging and criticizing LB.

I hope things get better for you so you don't feel you have to take out your inner insecurities regarding yourself onto others, because I completely disagree with you.

LB, you will make a great counselor and you were definitely treated very unfairly in your situation. They couldn't even come up with a valid reason to let you go, they had to make up stupid stuff like your pant length and hurrying down a hallway as backup for you being incompetent. LOL It's obvious they were setting you up and knew you were a great counselor because they couldn't even criticize your job performance at your actual job - they couldn't find anything valid to criticize.

The way you were unfairly treated would bring anyone down and make anyone feel badly - this does not mean you are not cut out out to be a counselor.

Hang in there. You'll be the best counselor ever.

[carhill]

What you know of LB is only a very small snapshot.

 

I'll bet we 'know her' better than most of her IRL friends and colleagues do. Her fiance certainly knows her better than we do, but I don't hear much about him these days, hence my suggestion for a hug.

 

IMO, there's nothing wrong with self-examination. Looking at oneself and the pros and cons of what one is doing and how that feels and fits in with ones goals and aspirations is a healthy thing.

 

My examples from our real life are as varied as people just starting out in the profession to men like our MC who've been doing it for thirty years or more. I'm sure plenty have been fired. All of us have, and likely from jobs we enjoyed but just had bad timing or the wrong fit. The suggestions I made about volunteering are based on stories we've heard from our friends and colleagues who do it as part of their commitment to the profession and to their professional lives. It seemed like a good way to re-establish both confidence and positive rapport with potential employers.

 

Hope it works out for her

[Lizzie60]

I agree with Carhill.. we know just as much as YOU do.. and probably more than the people around her..

 

From what I read from her posts/threads.. I get the clear impression she is not in the right field.. but then again.. only future will tell. if she will have a career in a field that is NOT for her..

[Art_Critic]

I'll bet we 'know her' better than most of her IRL friends and colleagues do.

 

That's a bit presumptuous IMO

 

I don't know you very well CH.. Are we to say that we know you better than your friends IRL ?.. No we don't..

 

You are just some guy behind a keyboard who types words..that is all we are here on LS..

 

Just like LB is and the day that we think our advice is the absolute only advice that would be the day that I think the poster needs some self introspection..

 

Lighten up on the woman..

 

You guys are trying to tear her down.. not build her up.. IMO...

 

and honestly Lizzie. do you think you know her well enough to be able to advise her on her career path and tell her she needs to switch professions.. crips.. you don't even know yourself that well... IMO

[carhill]

If you read my posts and journals, I'd say you'd have to be pretty dense not to have a good understanding of my psychology and opinions on life and my experiences. What you choose to do is your path.

 

There are many of us who not only have read LB's postings in depth but have had private communications with her. Also, anyone who reads her postings over time sees her openness. IMO, that is an asset she possesses which will help her.

 

I really don't see how suggesting introspection is tearing someone down. I guess we'll have to disagree.

[Art_Critic]

If you read my posts and journals, I'd say you'd have to be pretty dense not to have a good understanding of my psychology and opinions on life and my experiences. What you choose to do is your path.

 

That's presumptuous as well CH..

 

Crips....

[Lizzie60]

That's a bit presumptuous IMO

 

I don't know you very well CH.. Are we to say that we know you better than your friends IRL ?.. No we don't..

 

You are just some guy behind a keyboard who types words..that is all we are here on LS..

 

Just like LB is and the day that we think our advice is the absolute only advice that would be the day that I think the poster needs some self introspection..

 

Lighten up on the woman..

 

You guys are trying to tear her down.. not build her up.. IMO...

 

and honestly Lizzie. do you think you know her well enough to be able to advise her on her career path and tell her she needs to switch professions.. crips.. you don't even know yourself that well... IMO

 

 

A lot of posts here are personal and things that are said are hidden from the people around us.. so yes.. I think that in some cases, we know 'personal' stuff more than people IRL...

 

I have read enough of her posts/threads to have a very good idea of the type of personality she has.. therefore I know (almost certain) that this job is NOT for her... and to me.. to advise someone that they are not in the good field is GOOD advice.. and to tell her the contrary is NOT good advice.. Do others know her better than I do.. for telling her she'll be a good counsellor????

 

I can tell my son that he could be an astronaut.. that would be bad parenting advices.. IMO.. we got to be real here.. I am not tearing her down.. I'm trying to help.. She will never IMO be happy in a job that she will be constantly reminded that it's not for her.. by her bosses IRL..

 

We can only advise from the feeling we get from the posters.. no one here know (maybe a few exceptions) other LSers IRL..

 

So I stand by my posts.. My advices are just as good as anyone else..

Only SHE can decide what she'll do with them.. it's her choice..

[Art_Critic]

So I stand by my posts.. My advices are just as good as anyone else..

Only SHE can decide what she'll do with them.. it's her choice..

 

She wasn't asking for advice on what her career path should be or whether or not she is suited for her profession and should she give it all up and be something else.

 

She was asking for advice on the likely hood of getting hired after she had been fired..

 

I would think you of all people should understand a choice of career and how other people looking in have no clue...

[Lizzie60]

She wasn't asking for advice on what her career path should be or whether or not she is suited for her profession and should she give it all up and be something else.

 

She was asking for advice on the likely hood of getting hired after she had been fired..

 

I would think you of all people should understand a choice of career and how other people looking in have no clue...

 

I know.. and I went a little further .. saying that she could be hired.. but not in that field..

[JamesM]

A lot of posts here are personal and things that are said are hidden from the people around us.. so yes.. I think that in some cases, we know 'personal' stuff more than people IRL...

 

True BUT we only know what each person reveals about themselves. And we know that some people create a character for LS.

 

While we know Laurie as she portrays herself on here, we cannot know how she presents herself publicly in real life. As she said (and I have learned this, too), many counselors are there because of their own life experiences. So, while LB seeks advice here on LS for her own problems, this does not mean that she cannot sit back and objectively give advice and listen to other people's problems. Some people are completely different in their homes versus in their workplace. And here on LS which is anonymous, many of us can reveal emotions that we wouldn't in real life. Yet this does not mean we portray such an image in real life.

 

It is always easiest to give educated and objective advice to others, but when our own personal life and emotions enter into the picture, we can no longer be objective. This is why even the best counselors need help.

 

This cannot be compared to one lawyer giving advice to himself when in most cases, the advice is not involving emotions. Here we have much more invested than simply some legal documents or procedures. Even lawyers will occasionally take themselves off a case due to too close of involvement to the situation.

 

So, personally, I would not feel confident in telling anyone if they are qualified for a particular career based on a few postings here on LS.

[Art_Critic]

Thanks James..

 

You said the words I couldn't come up with..

 

Well said.....

[donnamaybe]

People also portray IRL what they WANT others to see.

[Lizzie60]

James... you know I love you to pieces.. but I have to disagree with you on this one..

[donnamaybe]

I think I'll wait for her to state unequivocally that her postings here are not representative of who she is IRL. Until then, I'll base my opinions on what I read.

 

If we are to not assume that what people post here has any bearing on their real life persona, then why does anyone advise anyone about ANYTHING?

[JamesM]

If we are to not assume that what people post here has any bearing on their real life persona, then why does anyone advise anyone about ANYTHING?

 

First, I will answer this as stated...many of us give advice and feedback to get the feeling of helping others. I think we get a feeling of importance.

 

Second, I for one am not saying that people do not reveal part of themselves. I just don't think they reveal all of themselves. And for example, a counselor can be very helpful and professional to his or her clients, but in his or her own life, life is a mess. This does not mean that he or she cannot be helpful until his or her own life is perfect. A financial adviser can tell someone how to budget their money while in his or her own life spend more than he or she earns. A lawyer can tell his or her clients to make a will while never following that advice personally. And on it goes.

 

I think what people post and ask does have a great bearing on their real life. I simply think that they tell us what we need to know.

 

And Carhill, I do think we can piece together what WE think a person's character and personality is based on the posts over a longer period of time, but still, we see the part that has been revealed and create our image based on that.

 

Lizzie, I am glad you still love me.... , but my opinion remains the same...stubborn man that I am.

[mem11363]

Some of the issues you highlight in your list of reasons for getting terminated, will make a prospective employer nervous. For instance you mention that you stopped coming in late "after" they put you on probation.

 

You mention your mistakes are based on a lack of experience - but coming in late is not about experience it is about respect for your employer and more specifically your boss. Even the next comment about running down the hall due to being stressed/anxious was actually caused by being late to a meeting.

 

Every person I ever saw put on a performance improvement plan where tardiness was listed, ended up being terminated. Reason was they were all warned about it - usually a few times - by their boss before they got put on probation/HR improvement plan. So by then the boss was angry and felt there was a core respect issue and no longer wanted that employee to succeed. You cannot keep your job long term if your boss actively wants to get rid of you.

 

And that is part of the challenge you face. Core job skills for a counselor are to be able to: (1) read people and (2) connect with people and yet you didn't correctly read the reaction of your superiors and you somehow didn't connect with them. If they had felt a connection to you, they would not have taken this harsh a line with you. Someone there, even if informally, would have coached you until you got where you needed to be.

 

So somehow you need to convince a new employer that you understand that you made mistakes at your prior job - and you now have a very different and much more mature grasp of what it takes to succeed in a job like that.

 

This approach of - "I am not perfect but they never should have fired me for these minimal stupid little offences" is a CERTAIN CRASH AND BURN OUTCOME at any prospective employer.

 

 

 

 

James... you know I love you to pieces.. but I have to disagree with you on this one..

[Art_Critic]

I think I will go back and peruse some of the 4583 posts and 172 threads started by the OP since 2006, when she was ~23, and see exactly what she has revealed about herself. BTW, nice wedding dress

 

Her first thread on LS was titled 'insecurity', which I think is quite relevant to the process of getting hired in the job market, or achieving success in any field. I think I'll wait for her to state unequivocally that her postings here are not representative of who she is IRL. Until then, I'll base my opinions on what I read.

 

Your taking the role of armchair psychologist too seriously CH...

[mem11363]

I read the thread Carhill just linked back to. It was a bit frightening in that it showed an inability to sustain an outwardly calm and supportive posture in a situation where someone else badly needed support for a major life event.

 

That thread plus the housework thread plus the termination thread all triangulate to the same endpoint.

 

 

 

Exactly. I found a nice thread which gives some insight into the early growth of our OP, back when her fiance was just a LD boyfriend in the midst of his CPA exam.

 

To me, from my readings of her voluntary threads, meaning only the ones she's started, if she was a polar opposite IRL, she'd be like I had described our psychologist friends and colleagues to be, very measured and ordered and quietly confident; an ideal fit in most business/professional situations. If that's the case, something was very wrong at her prior employer. If other, well, here we are.

 

By all this back and forth, agreement and disagreement, perhaps she can come to a place which is right for her. Getting it right, meaning achieving her goal, is the imperative; if our disagreements help her see new information or achieve new insight, they've been worthwhile, IMO.

[Star Gazer]

Exactly. I found a nice thread which gives some insight into the early growth of our OP, back when her fiance was just a LD boyfriend in the midst of his CPA exam.

 

To me, from my readings of her voluntary threads, meaning only the ones she's started, if she was a polar opposite IRL, she'd be like I had described our psychologist friends and colleagues to be, very measured and ordered and quietly confident; an ideal fit in most business/professional situations. If that's the case, something was very wrong at her prior employer. If other, well, here we are.

 

By all this back and forth, agreement and disagreement, perhaps she can come to a place which is right for her. Getting it right, meaning achieving her goal, is the imperative; if our disagreements help her see new information or achieve new insight, they've been worthwhile, IMO.

 

I couldn't agree more with Carhill (and Lizzie, as astonishing as that is to me! ...).

 

I wouldn't go as far to say that LB will never be a good counselor. However, at present she has demonstrated that she does not have the requisite maturity, calmness, supportive nature, confidence, stability, and insightfulness necessary to be successful in her chosen field.

 

This opinion isn't just extracted from her threads, it's out of her own mouth. She herself has repeatedly described herself as anxious, insecure, defensive, and paranoid.

 

Perhaps she just needs more time to mature?

Edited December 17, 2009 by Star Gazer

[norajane]

I'm really curious about the long pants. Can someone enlighten me?

[Lauriebell82]

Alrighty, I read everyone's responses. Thank you.

 

I'm not sure where to begin, whether defending myself is in order or not. My work loved me until I put the virus on my computer, then it all went down the drain. My supervisor would say what an excellent counselor I was and what an asset I was to the company. I remember that a trainer came to work one time from another clinic and was talking to me. My supervisor came up and said jokingly "don't even think about convincing her to leave, she is our's for good." I was also told that they hoped I had a long career there. Actually I was told that when I was put on probation! They sent me a lot of mixed messages, I suppose that's why I am having such a hard time with this termination.

 

I think someone mentioned tardiness, actually that would sit better with me if I had repeatedly come in half and hour late, 1 hour, ect. I came in 2 minutes late a few times because my watch was not the same time as the time clock. Plus, everyone else at my work would come in late and they would never get punished or put on probation for it. (not that it justifys me doing it) We were all told as a group that we needed to punch in on time, so we did. But I was put on probation for it.

 

I'm not sure what else to say, I read some jabs at my character. I guess you will have that on here. I do wonder though if I had never posted one single thread about my private life what would everyone on this forum think of me? It just sounds to me like posters are using my problems against me and I see a pattern that with each thread I make someone mentions my other threads to make cuts and insult me. This site can be very helpful, but it can also make you feel horrible at the same time.

 

I appreciate the advise, I didn't realize this thread was going to get so indepth. Oh and I haven't talked about my fiance because everything is great right now. We are happy and he is incredibly supportive and loving. I couldn't ask for a better guy.

[Lizzie60]

I'm really curious about the long pants. Can someone enlighten me?

 

 

I am curious as well..

[Lauriebell82]

I'm really curious about the long pants. Can someone enlighten me?

 

I lost a lot of weight so my dress pants became too big for me and looked longer on me. I couldn't afford to go buy all new pants. My supervisor mentioned that my pants were long so I went to get them all hemmed. He noticed and commented that he was glad I did. Is that what you mean?

 

This opinion isn't just extracted from her threads, it's out of her own mouth. She herself has repeatedly described herself as anxious, insecure, defensive, and paranoid.

 

I don't understand your point? Those faults don't take away from my ability to sit down and counsel someone. You have admitted to being rude and condesending. Does that make you a bad lawyer? Do you project those faults into the court room or when working with clients?