EA vs. PA

[GoodDad]

This has probably been discussed before, but I was curious what peoples thoughts were about this.

 

My wife brought up the other night that she was reading online that Emotional Affairs were just as bad or worse than physical ones, and she disagreed. She still says both are wrong, but that physical would be harder to get over.

 

I disagreed. I think both are just as bad. That forming an emotional bond w/sexual desire for another person outside the marriage is a betrayal that hurts almost worse and is harder to deal with because it is more of a fantasy and builds up even more unrequitted emotional angst and tension for those doing it. That the physical would become more grounded in the "real" world in some ways.

 

Does anyone see EA's and PA's differently? That one or the other is worse in some ways?

Edited December 14, 2009 by GoodDad

[sumdude]

An EA will very likely turn into a PA eventually. A PA may never turn into an EA but it's likely at least one of the two will get emotionally attached.

 

So really I don't see too much of a difference. I think women are more likely to get into emotional affairs that then turn physical and men might be more into the physical at first.

[ajj]

I agree both are wrong. The recovery process is a long and can take years. Any situation that involves lying, betrayal, head games, rationalizations (on both partners' behalf- it's no big deal- maybe they are just really good friends, I shouldn't be making such a big deal out of nothing) is wrong. It doesn't even have to be an affair with a person. Any person on this board that has ever dealt with a spouse/partner's drug addiction or alcoholism knows deep in their heart the chemical of choice is the OM/OW. The drugs/alcohol steals time, energy, intimacy, and resources that belong to the spouse/partner/family.

 

A dear friend of mine went through two years of hell because of her husband's internet affair. The WH never met the lady in person but was quite pre-occupied by her. After she was certain the lady in question was gone she still didn't have enough self-esteem to tell her husband not to make new female friends to chat with. Sad.

[tryagaintoday]

For me, I must say EA is worse.

 

Thing is, PA can be 'accidental'. Eg., got drunk and slept with someone. Yeah yeah I know you shouldn't have gotten drunk in the first place blah blah blah. Then you sober up and knew it was a mistake, apologised and never do it again.

 

But can you say the same for EA? Will you 'accidentally' get into an EA? All these planned meeting, thoughts in your head, lies and time spent. Will you be able to sober up the next day, knew it was a mistake, apologised and never do it again?

 

That's my stand.

[BearMox]

They are two different things to me. however a PA often has EA element.

 

To me PA is very different in that a violation of the marital bed has happened which sucks and creates something much more difficult to get over for the other person.

[tojaz]

For me, I must say EA is worse.

 

Thing is, PA can be 'accidental'. Eg., got drunk and slept with someone. Yeah yeah I know you shouldn't have gotten drunk in the first place blah blah blah. Then you sober up and knew it was a mistake, apologised and never do it again.

 

But can you say the same for EA? Will you 'accidentally' get into an EA? All these planned meeting, thoughts in your head, lies and time spent. Will you be able to sober up the next day, knew it was a mistake, apologised and never do it again?

 

That's my stand.

 

I have to agree with TAT here. While both are unacceptable, a drunken one night stand or other such spur of the moment encounter can and does happen. Creating an emotional attachment to someone else dosen't happen like that though. That takes time and willingness to allow them in and effectively shutting off to the BS. That hurts most of all.

 

When my D was happening and i found out about the suspected OM. I had all the usual thoughts and pictures in my head, them kissing, in bed etc. made me angry as hell, but the thing that hurt the most was so simple and innocent yet meant so much. Saw them in a bar, and she was laughing and eating from his plate. That simple scene still brings a tear to my eye because it wasn't about sex or attraction or anything so shallow. It was at that moment that I had felt that I had been replaced.... another man sitting in my seat.

TOJAZ

[sumdude]

I guess I consider an 'affair' to be something ongoing. Some sort of drunken ONS doesn't seem like an affair exactly.

[GoodDad]

Thanks for the feedback. Damn Tojaz. I wish I was as eloquent as you are in expressing yourself. Reading your post brought a tear to my eye as well as you nailed it. That is why I think the EA's are harder to recover from. Unless the PA is long term and ongoing, if of a short oops I screwed up nature, while DAMN hard to get over it doesn't have as much of that emotional punch the scenario you described does...

 

It's going to take a long time for me to trust again. I think I am going to read Owl's posts again. Someone suggested that as he is someone who dealt with an EA and the marriage recovered... Not saying its possible in all cases. But I guess for some it is.

[sumdude]

I know for a fact my ex wife was in an EA for some time before she left me. Whether or not it was physical I have no real facts though it seems likely. Doesn't matter now, she married him soon after our divorce was final.

 

Trusting again is something I keep working at. It's been taking a while, hard not to have a hair trigger when someone acts in a 'familiar' way.

[tojaz]

Thanks for the feedback. Damn Tojaz. I wish I was as eloquent as you are in expressing yourself. Reading your post brought a tear to my eye as well as you nailed it. That is why I think the EA's are harder to recover from. Unless the PA is long term and ongoing, if of a short oops I screwed up nature, while DAMN hard to get over it doesn't have as much of that emotional punch the scenario you described does...

 

It's going to take a long time for me to trust again. I think I am going to read Owl's posts again. Someone suggested that as he is someone who dealt with an EA and the marriage recovered... Not saying its possible in all cases. But I guess for some it is.

 

Thanks Good Dad, appreciate the compliment. Sadly I'm only so eloquent when my hearts been trampled on. I think I posted once that I give LS my best when I'm at my worst. Seems thats true in most cases.

 

Trust is going to take some time. I know that for myself as I find it very hard to trust or to share my heart anymore when I used to be able to do so at will. I only hope that I can recognize myself once my wounds have healed and be able to open my heart again.

TOJAZ

[Itried]

I have to agree with TAT here. While both are unacceptable, a drunken one night stand or other such spur of the moment encounter can and does happen. Creating an emotional attachment to someone else dosen't happen like that though. That takes time and willingness to allow them in and effectively shutting off to the BS. That hurts most of all.

 

When my D was happening and i found out about the suspected OM. I had all the usual thoughts and pictures in my head, them kissing, in bed etc. made me angry as hell, but the thing that hurt the most was so simple and innocent yet meant so much. Saw them in a bar, and she was laughing and eating from his plate. That simple scene still brings a tear to my eye because it wasn't about sex or attraction or anything so shallow. It was at that moment that I had felt that I had been replaced.... another man sitting in my seat.

TOJAZ

 

Ugh, reading that jolted me. i would never want to be in that situation...how horrible.

 

You are a strong man!

[GoodDad]

So my wife says she was reading yesterday about EA's. She has finally admitted she had one with this co-worker, they haven't flirted since this all went down a few months back and she has stopped talking to him.

 

She said, everything she has read says the only way to get over these is to cut off all contact, but since its a co-worker she bumps into every once in a while she isn't sure what to do. She just received a promotion and while we have talked about her finding another job, with the economy the way it is that might not be feasible. She said its unlikely he will decide to quit.

 

I didn't know what to tell her on that one except to avoid him as much as possible, and to be open and tell me if they talk and to talk to her counselor about it. I thought about an ultimatum of telling her to quit her job, but I know at this point she would say no, especially as her trust level in me is at a low point.

 

She said she realizes too that her fantasy of this OM was just that, a fantasy because she wasn't happy in our marriage because we weren't working on our issues and we were now. Which was helping.

 

No idea how to deal with this, except I told her I hoped as our relationship improved an alternative outside of the marriage wouldn't be a consideration anymore for her, and if it was, then we should call it quits anyway if it came to that.

 

I do not know how other couples have overcome this EA crap. I guess thats why most couples split over it instead of working through it.

 

GD

[tojaz]

Ugh, reading that jolted me. i would never want to be in that situation...how horrible.

 

You are a strong man!

 

Not that strong, shortly there after kicked a hole in the side of my car. LOL Standing tribute to my anger. :mad:

[GoodDad]

LMAO!! Tojaz,

 

Damn man, good to know you are human too. I need to drum up some of that anger sometimes. I repress it and build up resentment. Always feel I can't lose control of it or something, but sometimes you just need to kick a hole in your car right? Well, I did the something similar in totaling mine.

 

But a well justified ding based on what you saw man.

 

GD

[tojaz]

LMAO!! Tojaz,

 

Damn man, good to know you are human too. I need to drum up some of that anger sometimes. I repress it and build up resentment. Always feel I can't lose control of it or something, but sometimes you just need to kick a hole in your car right? Well, I did the something similar in totaling mine.

 

But a well justified ding based on what you saw man.

 

GD

 

Oh yeah, I'm human, and I've done some stupid stuff! LOL Wasn't real proud of myself, but it was better then what I wanted to kick a hole in I suppose. Now I have a constant reminder every time I get in my car to go to work. (Picture of it in my profile, added you as a contact) Still I was glad for the times I was able to direct my anger away from people. My biggest regret where the times I let it show. The day she pretty much fully checked out, things had been going well, sitting together on the couch watching her work on her computer, then her phone showed a text and it was him. Found out she had lied about where she had been the night before and I lost it. Wound up telling her that she had to make a choice, me or him......she told me she couldn't decide and I lost it! Grabbed the first thing I saw, a glass cuttingboard, and smashed it! I still see the look on her face, she was so scared and thought I might hurt her, I hated being that in her eyes.

TOJAZ

[tojaz]

So my wife says she was reading yesterday about EA's. She has finally admitted she had one with this co-worker, they haven't flirted since this all went down a few months back and she has stopped talking to him.

 

She said, everything she has read says the only way to get over these is to cut off all contact, but since its a co-worker she bumps into every once in a while she isn't sure what to do. She just received a promotion and while we have talked about her finding another job, with the economy the way it is that might not be feasible. She said its unlikely he will decide to quit.

 

I didn't know what to tell her on that one except to avoid him as much as possible, and to be open and tell me if they talk and to talk to her counselor about it. I thought about an ultimatum of telling her to quit her job, but I know at this point she would say no, especially as her trust level in me is at a low point.

 

She said she realizes too that her fantasy of this OM was just that, a fantasy because she wasn't happy in our marriage because we weren't working on our issues and we were now. Which was helping.

 

No idea how to deal with this, except I told her I hoped as our relationship improved an alternative outside of the marriage wouldn't be a consideration anymore for her, and if it was, then we should call it quits anyway if it came to that.

 

I do not know how other couples have overcome this EA crap. I guess thats why most couples split over it instead of working through it.

 

GD

 

Thats a tough position GD. She sounds like shes able to see past the fog and see things for what they are, but she still has to be around the guy everyday.

 

 

I think an ultimatum would probably push her away. All the things your struggling with, she is too even if she dosen't show it. I know trust has been broken, but shes not going to feel welcome if she thinks she is going to be under the microscope. There will be time to discuss the EA when things are a little more solid. She needs to prove that you can trust her again but that can only happen if you give her a little line to run........and watch from a distance.

TOJAZ

[EcstasyX6]

This has probably been discussed before, but I was curious what peoples thoughts were about this.

 

My wife brought up the other night that she was reading online that Emotional Affairs were just as bad or worse than physical ones, and she disagreed. She still says both are wrong, but that physical would be harder to get over.

 

I disagreed. I think both are just as bad. That forming an emotional bond w/sexual desire for another person outside the marriage is a betrayal that hurts almost worse and is harder to deal with because it is more of a fantasy and builds up even more unrequitted emotional angst and tension for those doing it. That the physical would become more grounded in the "real" world in some ways.

 

Does anyone see EA's and PA's differently? That one or the other is worse in some ways?

 

IMO a PA is nowhere near as bad because there's typically no emotional connection, and it can be ended by the cheating spouse without difficulty. Of course it scars the marriage if there's discovery, but not as deeply. Whereas most EA become PAs and are much more difficult to break and inflict extreme damage. It saddens me when I read that someone has sworn to their partner, 'oh, it was only and EA, and nothing really happened.' I think 9 times out of 10 that's BS and said just to buy time or placate the unknowing spouse. :(It's already gone sexual on some level.

[imagine]

Good dad,

 

Honesty is in your wife's favour. Thank her for it. Not many guys get a heads up before an affair.

 

What to do about it: Meet her emotional needs. It is wonderful that you can speak about her emotional affair. This need is listening.

 

Call up the articles at Marriage Builders. com and tick off what her and your needs may be. Tell us what they are for her.

[reboot]

By the way, there's no such thing as "accidental" sex. As if you get drunk and do things you didn't want to do in the first place. You guys believe that if you want.

[mourningMM]

I've been visiting loveshack for a long time, and I actually started a thread about this in 2007...

 

When you are talking about affairs there are three people involved...A husband, a wife, and an Other Person.

 

The thread that I started was http://http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t54657/

 

Maybe you will find some perspective that is useful.

 

I should note that this specific thread has had more views that almost any other thread in that forum...so this question is one that is of interest to many many people.

 

Marriage is hard work, and every day partners need to make a choice whether they are going to grow together or apart. I really believe that each and every choice heads in one of those two directions--there is no neutral choice.

 

Whether it is emotional or physical, an affair is a choice that does not initially bring the two partners in a marriage closer. The beginning of either kind of affair is an indication that the partnership has problems. The ending of an affair will usually show whether or not the partnership can last.

 

Best of luck.

MM

[GoodDad]

Thanks MM, your thread was a good perspective. I read some of Owl's threads. He somehow got through this. It appears my wife was right though, everything on EA's says you have to go complete NC with the OM.

 

How the hell is that going to work with them at the same office building. It makes me lose hope a little as I don't see a way around that other than her switching jobs which I don't think she will do as an option at this point.

 

I don't know. With them still working in the same place that is definitely not the best situation.

 

GD

[reboot]

Is her job more important than her marriage?

[comj49]

Just found out that my wife may be seeing someone at her work. We have been seperted for a month and she wants to see other people. Reading this thread just dashed all hope out of the situation. I know my wife, even if she came back, wouldn't quit her job, and it is very likely the OM was in the picture before we were seperated. How do I regain any trust knowing she started this at work.