Lets actually pick apart what the problem is with the dating market

[lofi_tokyo]

With women, it's a whole different ball game.

 

Is it? In my social circles its pretty equal. I mean, a girl won't be called a player, per se... but she will definitely get branded. A cheater is a cheater, and a serial-dater is a serial-dater.

[carhill]

As long as men let the vagina hold power over them, none of the rightly-felt hand-wringing and chest-beating will matter. Some other, less selective male will bang that broad

[silic0ntoad]

Is it? In my social circles its pretty equal. I mean, a girl won't be called a player, per se... but she will definitely get branded. A cheater is a cheater, and a serial-dater is a serial-dater.

 

 

It is, yes. I have nothing to go on besides my own experience, and things I read. I think for the first time ever I saw a news article about three weeks ago about women and cheating, and how they are just as bad as men (except they do it to end relationships 90% of the time, men do it and try to hide it to keep the relationship going.)

 

I always see men demonized because they cheat. I have yet to see a post where a woman cheats and gets called out by guys where other women don't jump in to defend her actions. Look at the post by ann09 in particular. Most women that posted there supported her and the guys were bashing her. Why? She cheated. When a guy cheats I see people jump all over him for cheating. When a woman cheats "Everyone understands why."

 

Shenanigans.

[meerkat stew]

And, the kicker is they all have good jobs so their probably not looking for a suger daddy which is my biggest concern.

 

Do not assume this, very case by case. Of the last 5-7 women I've dated longer than a month or two, 3 made high incomes (150-500k per year). Two of those three were the biggest gold-diggers I've ever met, the other one was materialistic, but in a more prudent way, i.e. seeking good investments, and nothing wrong with that. Many of the lower income women I have dated have been the least materialistic.

 

There are many people out there, men and women, for whom enough is never enough. The woman who made 500k a year was pretty obviously on a quest for a billionaire. Her total estimation of the value of other people was based on how much money and social standing they had. There are -lots- out there like this in the U.S. currently, and they are very hard to spot because they are well trained socially and know how to fool a placeholder while they hunt big game.

[lofi_tokyo]

It is, yes. I have nothing to go on besides my own experience, and things I read. I think for the first time ever I saw a news article about three weeks ago about women and cheating, and how they are just as bad as men (except they do it to end relationships 90% of the time, men do it and try to hide it to keep the relationship going.)

 

I always see men demonized because they cheat. I have yet to see a post where a woman cheats and gets called out by guys where other women don't jump in to defend her actions. Look at the post by ann09 in particular. Most women that posted there supported her and the guys were bashing her. Why? She cheated. When a guy cheats I see people jump all over him for cheating. When a woman cheats "Everyone understands why."

 

Shenanigans.

 

Hmm maybe you're right. I've never cheated, but I HAVE been cheated on. I've had many of my male friends bash the guy as well as my female friends. But when my girlfriends cheat? We'll they're looked down upon, the the whiplash isn't quite the same.

 

I guess as far as dating more than one person at once its the same thing. I've dated (usually do) 2-3 people at once. It's never a "relationship" but I don't know, some how I just have many dates going on in the same week. I've never been called out on it, and when guys find out about it they just laugh at me... but recently, I found out a guy I was seeing (who ended things) was seeing another girl at the same time as me, and ended things with me because he wanted to date her.

 

I was heartbroken, and you guessed it - everyone came to my side and said "hes such a jerk" or "men suck" or "on behalf of men, I am sorry we're so lame" or whatever.... they're just comments, but everyone took to my side! The thing is, I couldn't even agree with them because I knew deep down, I do this to men (and women, I'm bi) all the time. I wanna be mad at this guy and say "how could you!?" but that really wouldn't be fair.

[Miko]

Many women I have seen with issues and attitude problems often seem to "straighten-out" when they find a man they REALLY like who won't put up with it. A lot of people have a facade based on some cultural ideal that really isn't "them" and they drop it when they find someone they want more than they enjoy their "alter-ego".

[lofi_tokyo]

 

There are many people out there, men and women, for whom enough is never enough. The woman who made 500k a year was pretty obviously on a quest for a billionaire. Her total estimation of the value of other people was based on how much money and social standing they had. There are -lots- out there like this in the U.S. currently, and they are very hard to spot because they are well trained socially and know how to fool a placeholder while they hunt big game.

 

 

Man this is self-awareness day for me.

 

I've dated many guys that don't fit in my family's income bracket. I really don't mind. Thats the thing though... I don't mind. Does that make me a place-holder?

 

A guy that is super successful is definitely more attractive (to me) than a guy who isn't. I don't desire to live a wealthy life, but the way I see it - if he has money, things will come easier, and whats wrong with things being easy? ;p

[Woggle]

This whole men=victimizers and women=victims thing really gets to me. To me you should treat people the way you would want to be treated but too many feel they have the right to treat a man like garbage and still demand the sun, moon and stars from him and it just doesn't work that way. A person should be willing to return the treatment they demand.

 

I will use the Target incident as an example. Yes I was wrong for lashing out at a woman that simply said hello but how women here would have done the same thing if a strange man said hello to them? I remember one time I was pretty much called a would be rapist because a woman dropped her cell phone and I ran after her to give it to her but I am expected to be mr nice if a woman says hello to me. Women not returning the respect they demand from us is the root of much of my resentment. I know it is not all women but any man on here can relate to this.

[silic0ntoad]

Hmm maybe you're right. I've never cheated, but I HAVE been cheated on. I've had many of my male friends bash the guy as well as my female friends. But when my girlfriends cheat? We'll they're looked down upon, the the whiplash isn't quite the same.

 

I guess as far as dating more than one person at once its the same thing. I've dated (usually do) 2-3 people at once. It's never a "relationship" but I don't know, some how I just have many dates going on in the same week. I've never been called out on it, and when guys find out about it they just laugh at me... but recently, I found out a guy I was seeing (who ended things) was seeing another girl at the same time as me, and ended things with me because he wanted to date her.

 

I was heartbroken, and you guessed it - everyone came to my side and said "hes such a jerk" or "men suck" or "on behalf of men, I am sorry we're so lame" or whatever.... they're just comments, but everyone took to my side! The thing is, I couldn't even agree with them because I knew deep down, I do this to men (and women, I'm bi) all the time. I wanna be mad at this guy and say "how could you!?" but that really wouldn't be fair.

 

 

My point exactly. Women are JUST as bad as men. It's more socially acceptable however because "Men are lame and women deserve the best and only the best." Well, what about us guys? Don't we deserve the same?

 

See my point? Ridiculous. To conclude that men did this to women or vice versa is heresy. I honestly think societal standards have changed. I have both male and female friends around 22-24 that don't believe in marriage or monogamous relationships. They think it's unnatural and that they are healthier with multiple partners. I think they are absolutely insane. I've done dating multiple people at one time. I find I can't actually like any of them because I waste time trying to get to know them all and can't focus on any one in particular.

 

This new age, hippie bullsh*t thought process has completely destroyed the traditional relationship. At least, as far as I know. Everyone simply bangs everyone else, leaves for grass that seems greener, and has no balls when it comes to actually trying to fix themselves rather than other people.

 

You can't save me (or anyone) unless you can save yourself.

[espec10001]

This whole men=victimizers and women=victims thing really gets to me. To me you should treat people the way you would want to be treated but too many feel they have the right to treat a man like garbage and still demand the sun, moon and stars from him and it just doesn't work that way. A person should be willing to return the treatment they demand.

 

I will use the Target incident as an example. Yes I was wrong for lashing out at a woman that simply said hello but how women here would have done the same thing if a strange man said hello to them? I remember one time I was pretty much called a would be rapist because a woman dropped her cell phone and I ran after her to give it to her but I am expected to be mr nice if a woman says hello to me. Women not returning the respect they demand from us is the root of much of my resentment. I know it is not all women but any man on here can relate to this.

 

I notice some of the posters here are from New Jersey. I don't think we who live in places like NJ or NY can accurately judge how ALL women are throughout the world. It may just be the area we are in. I live near Atlantic City, and the truth is if you got the cash then women will be aiming for you, and many will try to suck you dry. Not all, but many.

 

We can't really say it is like this EVERYWHERE, can we?

[Woggle]

NJ and NY are not much different from anywhere else. We are just louder. If you also read this board you see people from all over the world having the same problems.

[silic0ntoad]

NJ and NY are not much different from anywhere else. We are just louder. If you also read this board you see people from all over the world having the same problems.

 

 

Agreed. My buddy in Colorado has huge problems finding women. Another friend in Dunkirk has the same problem. It's not a localized issue. My one friend (female) studying in London says "I can't find a man that's worth it over here."

 

Seems to be the modern day thought process.

[IrishCarBomb]

I think current culture is tough on both genders. I think men have been expected to change and it hasn't been easy. But I in no way see a dynamic where women are living it up and getting everything they want out of life and are happy to stomp all over men to do it. Of living a life where women are the only and complete or even majority cause of all things wrong in this world. I think a lot of men here don't want to realize that women are people too. Can I say it again? Women are people too. With struggles, hurts, feelings, wishes, desires and insecurities about where they fit into it all. And we haven't bleeped it up alone. So stop pretending we did.

 

Just because I am a woman, doesn't mean I am not a human being. Do I really even need to say that? Some of you talk about women like we are worthless. Or like we don't know our own minds. Or as if we don't have a right to feel hurt or have our own personal struggles with current culture and society.

 

I don't know where the rest of you live, but I do know I don't live in a world that is easier on women. And no guys, that's not all OUR (women's) fault. I do know I live in a world that has given women more rights and oppurtunities then women had in the 1920s. But It's certainly not easier for us or better defined or even that men give us more respect now then they did then. I'm not so sure that they do. I do know that I don't live in a world that is easier for men either.

 

The fact that I am a woman does not mean that life is/has been easier for me. Perhaps the kind of women that are being referenced about are super hot women. You know the type guys, the ones that you are bitter about not wanting you and then with glee and macliousness talk about how when they turn 30 they will be a worthless as apparently all women are when they hit that age? And if these are the women you are talkign about, that it goes to show that those are the only woman men care about. And if that's the only women men care about, do you not see the callousness and hypocrisy in that?

 

Dating is not easy for me. If you ever really listened to the things many women go through around here, you would see it's not easy for most of us. Women are human beings too. Not all men are always nice. Respectful. Loving. Kind. Supportive. Full of all these wonderful things that alot of the men here want to implore they are despite all the women here that have had experiences contrary to that. Men do not always want to take care of us. And it is not just women's fault if a man doesn't want to. We've had to fend for ourselves. If that has made us less vunerable, it is because it's become a survival skill in a world where men want their time to play around on women until they are ready to settle down well into their 30s or 40s with women half their age. You can't have it both way guys. You can't use women until you are ready to settle down and then expect there to be a bevy of vunerable women that have not learned to be protective of themselves so that a man doesn't use you up.

 

Do any of us really want to hear each other out? Or do we just want to lecture to each other about *me* and *my* problems and what is wrong with the other gender? Ladies, when was the last time we actually listened to what the guys were saying? Gentlemen, when was the last time you actually listened to what the ladies where saying? I don't hear alot of that going around on this board. I don't think a few of you want to see women as people so much as you want to see them as the reason for why you think the world is crap. If you think women are the reason the world is crap, then you clearly think women are crap. And why would you even want a relationship with any of us if you have suhc a low opinion of us?

 

Women are people too. I know that goes against what some of you believe but we are.

 

Good post. Many excellent points.

[espec10001]

You have to try to look at it from a female perspective to get a certain idea of why they do certain things. For a long time women were treated as the property of men, and not too long ago it was completely acceptable for a man to hit his wife and discipline her, in essence almost enslaving her.

 

Now, women have opportunity. Women can do things that men traditionally did. And why blame them? Men take advantage of opportunity, why shouldn't women? They have made great strides in the work force and in other areas, and in reality anything a man can do, a woman can do equally.

 

Have you ever heard the saying women don't get mad, they get even? Well, that is what is happening. They don't want to be owned, they don't like the feeling of someone possessing them, much like a man. They enjoy freedom, love, music, art much like men do, and the primary difference between men and women is chiefly physical.

[silic0ntoad]

Have you ever heard the saying women don't get mad, they get even? Well, that is what is happening. They don't want to be owned, they don't like the feeling of someone possessing them, much like a man. They enjoy freedom, love, music, art much like men do, and the primary difference between men and women is chiefly physical.

 

Ever heard of revenge? Getting even is revenge. When you strike out for revenge, you may as well dig two graves.

 

That's a ridiculous theory and I don't think women as a whole have had a shift in the mind paradigm that has said "Men used to treat us like property. Let's screw them over and treat them like garbage to get back at them!"

 

Shenanigans.

 

While differences may pander on the physical level, women also are different in that they act on emotion rather then logic. It's a curse and a blessing. That's what I consider a major difference.

 

Society has this effect on people. It dictates status as how many cars you've got, what gig your iPod is, how sweet your crib is, and how hot your man/woman is.

 

It's all trivial, meaningless bull. Until collectively, as a societal whole, we change this perspective, we a doomed to fade. Relationships, marriage, it will all die out. This new age thought process of "there is always someone better" and "ME ME ME" has to go before people can bond on a human level, as compared to a materialistic level. And by materialistic, people can be matericalistic in the sense that they have to have the best/hottest girl/guy.

 

Whatever. This is why I am taking a break from the dating scene.

[espec10001]

Ever heard of revenge? Getting even is revenge. When you strike out for revenge, you may as well dig two graves.

 

That's a ridiculous theory and I don't think women as a whole have had a shift in the mind paradigm that has said "Men used to treat us like property. Let's screw them over and treat them like garbage to get back at them!"

 

Shenanigans.

 

While differences may pander on the physical level, women also are different in that they act on emotion rather then logic. It's a curse and a blessing. That's what I consider a major difference.

 

Society has this effect on people. It dictates status as how many cars you've got, what gig your iPod is, how sweet your crib is, and how hot your man/woman is.

 

It's all trivial, meaningless bull. Until collectively, as a societal whole, we change this perspective, we a doomed to fade. Relationships, marriage, it will all die out. This new age thought process of "there is always someone better" and "ME ME ME" has to go before people can bond on a human level, as compared to a materialistic level. And by materialistic, people can be matericalistic in the sense that they have to have the best/hottest girl/guy.

 

Whatever. This is why I am taking a break from the dating scene.

 

It is good to take a break from the dating scene. You'll learn a lot more about women if you view them from a distance.

[mem11363]

Meerkat,

When I dated women who were really INTO me, they broadcast more on all 5 channels (love languages).

 

The women who were not that into me - or became less into me over time, behaved the way you describe. Why are you consistently with women who like you less then you like them? And/or what is it you do that causes the R to evolve to that point?

 

Your post highlights a very high level of conflict avoidance/insecurity on your part. What I mean is that a rational man with your history would have long ago switched to a mode of giving modest gifts in a way that is irreproachable.

 

"I know your budget is tighter then mine, and don't want to create an awkward situation by giving you a much bigger gift then you give me, so lets take the "less is more" approach to this holiday."

 

If a woman gets upset you aren't going to way outspend her - you are simply with the wrong woman.

 

 

 

Almost everything we learn in life is "anecdotal," or based on induction. The number of observations of a specific event bolster the strength of the induction. We don't have the luxury of learning much via strict scientific methodology in day to day existence, so have always wondered at using "anecdotal" as dismissive of validity when it is in fact the way we learn most things in life.

 

When observing events out and about, we categorize them as outlier events or what I like to call "fat of the bell curve" events. For example, I know a woman who gave her BF a very nice watch for Christmas. He gave her a coffee maker in return. This is firmly in "outlier" land, i.e. a "rare" occurence. This happened in 1988. Have rarely heard of such since among my many acquaintances. But then, back in 1988, I will assure you, it was a -very- big deal among the woman's social group, which included me at the time... word got around because of the utter novelty of the occurence. Outlier.

 

Of the 20 or so GFs who have given me gifts in my life, 10% or less of those maybe 100 gifts that I was given were remotely close to the gifts I gave them in value. All of my male friends would likely attribute a similar percentage, as we have in fact discussed the phenomenon on occasion. So my question to you is at what point do observations leave "outlier" land and enter into "fat of the bellcurve" land? I submit that at some point prior to my current level of experience, the observations stopped being "anecdotal" and started being grounds for a fairly solid inductive generalization. Fat of the bell curve.

 

You can cite all the outlier anecdotal evidence you want, I'm in the fat of the bell curve and well know it.

[silic0ntoad]

It is good to take a break from the dating scene. You'll learn a lot more about women if you view them from a distance.

 

Is that meant as an insult?

 

Clearly I know more of the situation then alot of people, as indicated by my posts. If you think I know nothing of it, go back and read them, and you'll garner a better understanding of my POV concerning that crap posted above and all this nonsense about modern day thought and polygamy.

 

As far as I can tell, I have no issues picking women up, going on dates. Alot of the girls I talk to I could easily be in a relationship with. But I'd say of the 4 girls I am talking to right now, only 1 is NOT materialistic, and she is a big christian, something I am not, so we are not compatible. The other 3 are too worried about money/finances/status for me to even bother considering them a worthy partner.

[jw90063]

I bet the OP is getting a kick out of how popular his thread has become. If I recall, he is the one who is always making offensive posts, and referring to women as fatties and such. Always seems to start some sort of rival on LS.(look back at his previous threads)

 

Good topic, but I think he might be a troll and people just feed him generously. Not good. I bet he's sitting back watching the fun.

[silic0ntoad]

I bet the OP is getting a kick out of how popular his thread has become. If I recall, he is the one who is always making offensive posts, and referring to women as fatties and such. Always seems to start some sort of rival on LS.(look back at his previous threads)

 

Good topic, but I think he might be a troll and people just feed him generously. Not good. I bet he's sitting back watching the fun.

 

 

+1.

 

Although I do think it's a good topic. It's bringing us all so much closer together!

[D-Jam]

To me the problem with the dating market is that no one thinks logically and realistically.

 

I've seen both men and women get caught up in some of the most far-fetched emotional delusions that they will get with the most horrible people and/or take the worst treatment, all in the name of trying to live out a fantasy.

 

On top of that, gender roles have been drastically distorted nowadays with the freedom given to both genders in the 60s and then screwed up in the overprotect-your-children moments of the 80s and 90s. It's why boys grow up to be insecure wimps who get all needy and desperate to get a girl, why we see near 30 year olds who can't seem to get a date or anything. It's also why we see many girls grow up to be spoiled/entitled princesses, bitches, etc...or worse they become overly submissive and thus become one of the "bad boy chasers" we all speak of.

 

Finally, I also agree the modern technology age made us less sociable and way more isolated and/or cliquey. Used to be that you would know everyone in your neighborhood, but now many don't even know the people in the building or block they live on. They rely on their tiny social circles to find them possible mates, but realize now they are not good resources...thus you end up with the older woman who complains how all her friends are married off and she's got no one...or guys who speak how their own friends do not know any women or anyone they could meet and thus click with.

 

We don't talk to each other and instead hide behind sunglasses and earphones to keep a gigantic "KEEP AWAY" sign up...then we try to justify it all by going to bars to meet possible mates. Thus we end up complaining later that there are not decent singles.

 

So we try dating sites, but we tend to suddenly treat it like you're buying a car. You look on the list of qualities and see where the good and bad are, and then decide even before really messaging anyone.

 

Guys will think it's just a goal to get anyone within a range of attraction out on a date, which isn't a bad thing, but then they're in a hurry to "seal the deal" before they really even get to know this woman. It seems to become a quest to get sex before getting to know her. Some do this as a conquest while others think it's an insurance against being dumped.

 

Girls will do the opposite. After spending part of their youth going from one bad decision after another (based on emotional impulse), they'll try online dating as the hope that the "good guy husband material" version of Brad Pitt will be there waiting to see her profile. They'll instead spend their every moment in online dating with their finger on the "delete account" button, ever trying to fight the insecurity that says "you're a loser for going online".

 

Now, in my opinion no one is a loser for going online, but I do notice the social stigma that still exists and bothers people when they find out their peers found their online profile. That or they're busily looking for a quick excuse to get off it. It could be that one creepy guy who insults her, or friends finding her profile, or even a quick judgment that there are no attractive men who set her panties on fire from their profiles.

 

Same goes for dating. You have the man who is in a rush to make it to date 3 and the hope of sex while the woman is seeking 10,000 reasons to delete his number/email and avoid him when he tries to contact. She wants instant chemistry and that feeling that it's "the one" even before she gets to know him.

 

So you have two people who are more on differing personal agendas and thus in a hurry. Worse are the men and women who see a SO as a title of honor...like you're someone if you have a BF or GF.

 

Even as b52s describes in those meetups, you get a lot of people ready to quickly dismiss the group because they see no one they would date...but they won't even try to make friendships. Maybe that ugly guy/girl you're not into will NOT push for more and be a pal, sharing with you drinks and laughs. Suddenly he/she will tell you about their cousin or coworker whom they think would be wonderful for you, and the reluctance will turn to adventure when you see that photo of a hottie.

 

So the problems are that everyone's not living in reality, in a hurry, has their own personal agenda prioritized more than anything else, and yet is also very antisocial.

[threebyfate]

How about everyone look to others, like individuals? Do you and I mesh as individuals?

 

If you're consistently finding that you don't mesh with the opposite gender, it's time to look internally and see why you don't mesh with so many others. Then it's up to you to either change or accept. If you accept, then you're going to have to be patient with finding someone who you can mesh with.

 

This blame-fest is counterproductive.

[meerkat stew]

or the complete gross generalizations that are running rampant in this thread.

 

Almost all human learning is based on generalizations. No one is commiting the fallacy you are describing, i.e., no one is confusing an inductive conclusion (something that is usually true based on observation) with a deductive conclusion (something that is always true by definition).

 

Employing the argument that the men who post on this forum come from a cross selection of various economic backgrounds and professions also does not lend credibility to the argument.

 

Yes it does.

 

Most people who post on a thread entitled "Let's actually pick apart what the problem is with the dating market" are going to share their negative experiences and rant about them.

 

There will be some of that, but it does not invalidate that experience, -especially- when that experience is backed by significant quantitative observation. There is a difference between saying "I saw a tiger in a coloring book once, so I know something about tigers," and saying "In visiting 80 zoos over the last 10 years, the African plains 7 times in the same period, and observing the tigers there, I know something about tigers. Tigers annoy me." The second person probably does know some things about tigers, likely much more than the first person, despite their admitted bias.

 

I don't care how much money you make.

 

Good for you, you are an outlier, i.e. a rarity, on the tails of the bell curve as opposed to the fat part where the average woman (and man for that matter) resides.

 

When you treat women as objects to be racked up, you're only going to expect to see unfavourable results..

 

Agreed

 

 

Referring to dating as a "market" implies a meatmarket mentality that objectifies potential partners.

 

Disagree, referring to dating as a meatmarket implies a meatmarket mentality. Referring to dating as a "market" merely implies a group where some exchange is taking place, and it needn't be monetary, i.e. "market of ideas." Or suggest an alternative term? Dating "world," "universe," "reality."

 

I've talked to some very nice men in the grocery store when they're requested help picking melons or other assorted fruit.

 

Did they say "mine's bigger" when looking through the cucumbers? I don't see your point here.

 

As a previous poster said, it's hard being in the dating world as a woman too.

 

No one said otherwise. The dating world is hard on women too. The disturbing thing in these types of threads is that women posters refuse to accept -any- gender based accountability whatsoever for problems in the dating world that men have, relying time and time again on shifting the entirety of the blame back on men and men's behavior.

 

Is it a fact that women generally cling to many double standards favorable to them in dating? Yes. It would be nice to hear a woman actually -admit- that for a change instead of offering immense rationalizations, claiming that men's complaints all originate in bitterness or bad attitude or poor social skills, that men who take issue with double standards are just misogynists or sexists in disguise, that one's experience no matter how frequent is completely invalid because it is subjective, that because -they- themselves are not that way that it invalidates the claim that most women -are- that way.

 

Not a single female poster has answered my initial question, not one. Here it is again. If the average American woman (the average, not an outlier, not you) went on her next first date and the guy wanted to go dutch instead of paying, would she be more likely to a) cheerfully accept that as a sign he considered her an equal, or b) come here and make a thread on how cheap her last date was? There's no "trick" in this question, but it's understandable that no woman wants to answer it honestly.

 

If you're thinking that the woman is going to be a money grabbing, car loving, materialistic, ball busting, emasculating b%%$h, you're going to look for behaviours that you *think* reflect that paranoia.

 

No, usually the way it plays out is we (men and women) want to be trusting and give the people we date the benefit of the doubt. The type of paranoid attitude you describe only starts to form after many -valid- experiences of getting completely burned, blindsided, and shocked that underneath a deceptive veneer of good qualities is the same old laundry list of bad.

 

I am willing to accept some fault in that state of affairs, as I believe most men are. The difference between most men and most women, though, is that, as evidenced here and elsewhere, women will not accept one iota of the accountability for the cultural factors that make dating problematic for the other gender. Women will not even acknowledge that in a world of presumed equality, the double standards I've referenced here and elsewhere don't make sense,and are unfair.

 

In fact, the outrageous irony is, that behind closed doors, most women still think the world is more unfair to women. No amount of social change is enough or ever will be. There is a "wage gap," there is a "glass ceiling," women are the wholesale victims of male violence, there is still bias against women, etc. etc. despite the fact that under careful scrutiny, those things just don't exist any more, and haven't really for decades.

 

Ladies, when is enough enough? We don't really mind paying for the first date that much, but for godsakes take at least some accountability for the fact that the double standards in dating are massively in your favor, and that your position in the world is currently pretty damn good.

Edited December 15, 2009 by meerkat stew

[phineas]

You have to try to look at it from a female perspective to get a certain idea of why they do certain things. For a long time women were treated as the property of men, and not too long ago it was completely acceptable for a man to hit his wife and discipline her, in essence almost enslaving her.

 

Now, women have opportunity. Women can do things that men traditionally did. And why blame them? Men take advantage of opportunity, why shouldn't women? They have made great strides in the work force and in other areas, and in reality anything a man can do, a woman can do equally.

 

Have you ever heard the saying women don't get mad, they get even? Well, that is what is happening. They don't want to be owned, they don't like the feeling of someone possessing them, much like a man. They enjoy freedom, love, music, art much like men do, and the primary difference between men and women is chiefly physical.

 

What are you talking about?

 

Which women dateing today experianced being treated as a man's property?

 

Certainly not the 20 somethings manipulating me 10yrs ago.

 

That doesn't even make sense to me.

 

women act the way they do because someone they don't know was treated in a way they never witnessed?

[kizik]

To me the problem with the dating market is that no one thinks logically and realistically.

 

I've seen both men and women get caught up in some of the most far-fetched emotional delusions that they will get with the most horrible people and/or take the worst treatment, all in the name of trying to live out a fantasy.

 

On top of that, gender roles have been drastically distorted nowadays with the freedom given to both genders in the 60s and then screwed up in the overprotect-your-children moments of the 80s and 90s. It's why boys grow up to be insecure wimps who get all needy and desperate to get a girl, why we see near 30 year olds who can't seem to get a date or anything. It's also why we see many girls grow up to be spoiled/entitled princesses, bitches, etc...or worse they become overly submissive and thus become one of the "bad boy chasers" we all speak of.

 

Finally, I also agree the modern technology age made us less sociable and way more isolated and/or cliquey. Used to be that you would know everyone in your neighborhood, but now many don't even know the people in the building or block they live on. They rely on their tiny social circles to find them possible mates, but realize now they are not good resources...thus you end up with the older woman who complains how all her friends are married off and she's got no one...or guys who speak how their own friends do not know any women or anyone they could meet and thus click with.

 

We don't talk to each other and instead hide behind sunglasses and earphones to keep a gigantic "KEEP AWAY" sign up...then we try to justify it all by going to bars to meet possible mates. Thus we end up complaining later that there are not decent singles.

 

So we try dating sites, but we tend to suddenly treat it like you're buying a car. You look on the list of qualities and see where the good and bad are, and then decide even before really messaging anyone.

 

Guys will think it's just a goal to get anyone within a range of attraction out on a date, which isn't a bad thing, but then they're in a hurry to "seal the deal" before they really even get to know this woman. It seems to become a quest to get sex before getting to know her. Some do this as a conquest while others think it's an insurance against being dumped.

 

Girls will do the opposite. After spending part of their youth going from one bad decision after another (based on emotional impulse), they'll try online dating as the hope that the "good guy husband material" version of Brad Pitt will be there waiting to see her profile. They'll instead spend their every moment in online dating with their finger on the "delete account" button, ever trying to fight the insecurity that says "you're a loser for going online".

 

Now, in my opinion no one is a loser for going online, but I do notice the social stigma that still exists and bothers people when they find out their peers found their online profile. That or they're busily looking for a quick excuse to get off it. It could be that one creepy guy who insults her, or friends finding her profile, or even a quick judgment that there are no attractive men who set her panties on fire from their profiles.

 

Same goes for dating. You have the man who is in a rush to make it to date 3 and the hope of sex while the woman is seeking 10,000 reasons to delete his number/email and avoid him when he tries to contact. She wants instant chemistry and that feeling that it's "the one" even before she gets to know him.

 

So you have two people who are more on differing personal agendas and thus in a hurry. Worse are the men and women who see a SO as a title of honor...like you're someone if you have a BF or GF.

 

Even as b52s describes in those meetups, you get a lot of people ready to quickly dismiss the group because they see no one they would date...but they won't even try to make friendships. Maybe that ugly guy/girl you're not into will NOT push for more and be a pal, sharing with you drinks and laughs. Suddenly he/she will tell you about their cousin or coworker whom they think would be wonderful for you, and the reluctance will turn to adventure when you see that photo of a hottie.

 

So the problems are that everyone's not living in reality, in a hurry, has their own personal agenda prioritized more than anything else, and yet is also very antisocial.

 

Quoted because D-Jam does it again.