Lets actually pick apart what the problem is with the dating market

[carhill]

My typical answer to 'what do you do' is 'I have this love affair with metal'

 

Of course, anyone on LS who knows how to find a profile page knows what I do. It keeps a lot of status hounds out of my PM box

[sumdude]

I live there currently.

 

I find its the out of towners that are warmer while most of the affluent locals are useless.

 

Interesting perspective, I guess it's all about who you meet and the neighborhoods you frequent. Thing is I'd still bet most of those affluent locals still came from somewhere else to begin with. Beleive it or not some people are actually born and raised in this town. When I tell people that they find it to be pretty rare. Very transient town.

 

Don't get me wrong, plenty of people who move here are cool, but the stuffed suit wearing, beemer/benz driving over the top type A lawyers and such really grate on my nerves sometimes.

[betamanlet]

Interesting perspective, I guess it's all about who you meet and the neighborhoods you frequent. Thing is I'd still bet most of those affluent locals still came from somewhere else to begin with. Beleive it or not some people are actually born and raised in this town. When I tell people that they find it to be pretty rare. Very transient town.

 

Don't get me wrong, plenty of people who move here are cool, but the stuffed suit wearing, beemer/benz driving over the top type A lawyers and such really grate on my nerves sometimes.

 

 

Yeah, I was born in Silver Spring. I am 34 years old now.

 

Also, it's funny how insecure people are here. In my apartment building (rental, duh) the garage is full of BMWs, mercedes, and there's even a Lotus. You can get this prestige car but rent???

 

It's all about showing off status here. I refuse to play the game, and it impacts my dating.

[silic0ntoad]

Like I said, I live there currently. If you're having trouble it is because you're choosing to and contributing to the flavor of your associations. When I was dating and asked "what do you do?", it wasn't just a question of their occupation. It is about their interests, hobbies, and occupation especially if they are lucky enough to have figured out how to make money from doing something they love. One of my friends went to school for photography specializing in animals. Now she it the head photographer at a zoo. I admire that about her, but it doesn't make me want to date her. It was just one of the topics we talked about when getting to know each other.

You are at least half of your problems in the dating world.

 

 

IDK about this. It's that whole "not placing accountability where it's due.

 

When it really comes down to it, I've had girls ask me about income, and I've had girls that don't ask me about income. It's a pressure point for me. It's all about respect. You come off as a golddigger if you ask. It's ok I'd say after a few dates, but date #1? I flat out tell them I don't disclose my income and end the date politely. Then I never bother with them again.

[sally4sara]

Don't get me wrong, plenty of people who move here are cool, but the stuffed suit wearing, beemer/benz driving over the top type A lawyers and such really grate on my nerves sometimes.

 

Ding ding ding! We have a winner! You know exactly who I've met that have contributed to my bad experiences!

[sally4sara]

IDK about this. It's that whole "not placing accountability where it's due.

 

When it really comes down to it, I've had girls ask me about income, and I've had girls that don't ask me about income. It's a pressure point for me. It's all about respect. You come off as a golddigger if you ask. It's ok I'd say after a few dates, but date #1? I flat out tell them I don't disclose my income and end the date politely. Then I never bother with them again.

 

I'm not clear on the correlation here.

 

I expressed what I am doing when I ask "what do you do?". It clearly wasn't about money. I don't think I should be held accountable for the behavior of others who think differently just because we use the same phrase. First date, like the ones you hope will follow, is for getting to know each other. Just like when you're making friends.

[silic0ntoad]

I'm not clear on the correlation here.

 

I expressed what I am doing when I ask "what do you do?". It clearly wasn't about money. I don't think I should be held accountable for the behavior of others who think differently just because we use the same phrase. First date, like the ones you hope will follow, is for getting to know each other. Just like when you're making friends.

 

My comment was directed towards the "flavor of associations" line you used. It's accountability. I've dated girls of all types and at least one of every "type" I've dated has asked the money question.

 

It really can't boil down to "flavor of associations" or "women you choose to date" honestly, because look at how many men here are having these issues. You're telling me, then, by implication, we (all men here) are all dating the same type of women? Shenanigans.

 

As far as asking what I do, that's fair. I don't see that as gold digging at all. That can imply hobbies, what you do for work, or what you do on your downtime. It's a simple question.

 

Let's face it; women are looking for a man that has wealth and power, or a percieved sense of security, at least more so today with the current economy and whatnot, than before.

[AD1980]

All of man's frustration with women can be solved with a pretty simple line from the move The Departed.

 

Mr. French: "Well make more ****in' money! This is America. You don't make money, then you're a ****in' douchebag."

 

 

Stop focusing on the other gender and focus more on yourself. If you increase your power (money, physical fitness, charm), everything else will fall into place. Including women being very interested in you.

 

Whether you like the way the world is right now or not doesn't matter. You have a problem and you have an answer, if you don't utilize that answer, then it's your fault you're not happy.

 

If you don't like something about your life, change it, don't complain.

 

Make more ****in' money. Work out more. Get OUT more. Increase your power.

 

Thats another set of problems getting women who are goign out with you because of youre money..

 

Not exactly the most trust worthy desirable creatures

[meerkat stew]

I don't understand why men get upset if a woman likes to know what you do for a living. No man here dates women for completely alutristic reasons and usually pick women based on how attractive he finds her. Which is no less shallow then women wanting to know what yuo do for a living.

 

You want to know why? It's because men freely admit they value physical attractiveness in women very highly.

 

OTOH, women rationalize their blunt craving for money in every way imaginable, and are extremely resistant to taking accountability for that craving. "I just want a man who has ambition, doesn't matter what he makes." BS. "I want a man with a degree because it shows we have similar life goals." BS. So many of the criteria women claim to want in men really translate into "I want a man with money."

 

Now what really gets odious is when women rationalize all fault back on to the guy unfairly. Sally won't date a man who makes less money than she does. She might fool around with him for awhile, but not seriously. Sally rationalizes this by claiming "Men are intimidated by a woman who makes more." Complete, stinky fabrication. We get fed up with that.

 

Women, if you want money, OWN IT, and the negative stigma that accompanies it, just like guys own the negative stigma that comes with dating hot bimbos or ditzy arm candy.

 

If you want a tall guy, OWN IT, and the accompanyng negative stigma of shallowness that entails.

 

If you want to go f*ck a dangerous criminal type, OWN IT, don't spout out a ridiculous criteria list of nice guy qualities you are seeking and then make your actual decisions completely counter to that list. OWN your obvious inconsistency.

 

We aren't stupid. We see the rationalizations and complete avoidance of accountability. JUST OWN IT ALREADY FFS.

Edited December 16, 2009 by meerkat stew

[silic0ntoad]

You want to know why? It's because men freely admit they value physical attractiveness in women very highly.

 

OTOH, women rationalize their blunt craving for money in every way imaginable, and are extremely resistant to taking accountability for that craving. "I just want a man who has ambition, doesn't matter what he makes." BS. "I want a man with a degree because it shows we have similar life goals." BS. So many of the criteria women claim to want in men really translate into "I want a man with money."

 

Now what really gets odious is when women rationalize all fault back on to the guy unfairly. Sally won't date a man who makes less money than she does. She might fool around with him for awhile, but not seriously. Sally rationalizes this by claiming "Men are intimidated by a woman who makes more." Complete, stinky fabrication. We get fed up with that.

 

Women, if you want money, OWN IT, and the negative stigma that accompanies it, just like guys own the negative stigma that comes with dating hot bimbos or ditzy arm candy.

 

If you want a tall guy, OWN IT, and the accompanyng negative stigma of shallowness that entails.

 

If you want to go f*ck a dangerous criminal type, OWN IT, don't spout out a ridiculous criteria list of nice guy qualities you are seeking and then make your actual decisions completely counter to that list. OWN your obvious inconsistency.

 

We aren't stupid. We see the rationalizations and complete avoidance of accountability. JUST OWN IT ALREADY FFS.

 

*golf clap*

 

Get owned!

[carhill]

My stbx was disappointed that my mother's estate wasn't worth more and I had to spend it on her care

 

I approve the message of owning one's perspective. It's a big world and room for everyone. The status and money seekers are on notice that carhill does not participate in nor wish to have any of them demean themselves and their ambition by even formulating the most infinitesimal inkling that they might even wish to give him one moment of their time. Leave him in peace and ignorance. Thanks

[silic0ntoad]

My stbx was disappointed that my mother's estate wasn't worth more and I had to spend it on her care

 

I approve the message of owning one's perspective. It's a big world and room for everyone. The status and money seekers are on notice that carhill does not participate in nor wish to have any of them demean themselves and their ambition by even formulating the most infinitesimal inkling that they might even wish to give him one moment of their time. Leave him in peace and ignorance. Thanks

 

 

*golf clap*

 

This time, get WRECKED!

 

lol

[carhill]

Right about now, my bf would say 'bitter much?'

[silic0ntoad]

I'm not bitter.

 

 

 

I'm realistic.

[donnamaybe]

women rationalize their blunt craving for money in every way imaginable,

 

Oh, fer Gawd's sake.

 

Generalize much?

 

I just get the BIGGEST kick out of these threads (primarily started by men, I've noticed) where obscure things like "the dating market" are blamed because some guy can't get any decent women to date him.

[Sam Spade]

You want to know why? It's because men freely admit they value physical attractiveness in women very highly.

 

OTOH, women rationalize their blunt craving for money in every way imaginable, and are extremely resistant to taking accountability for that craving. "I just want a man who has ambition, doesn't matter what he makes." BS. "I want a man with a degree because it shows we have similar life goals." BS. So many of the criteria women claim to want in men really translate into "I want a man with money."

 

Now what really gets odious is when women rationalize all fault back on to the guy unfairly. Sally won't date a man who makes less money than she does. She might fool around with him for awhile, but not seriously. Sally rationalizes this by claiming "Men are intimidated by a woman who makes more." Complete, stinky fabrication. We get fed up with that.

 

Women, if you want money, OWN IT, and the negative stigma that accompanies it, just like guys own the negative stigma that comes with dating hot bimbos or ditzy arm candy.

 

If you want a tall guy, OWN IT, and the accompanyng negative stigma of shallowness that entails.

 

If you want to go f*ck a dangerous criminal type, OWN IT, don't spout out a ridiculous criteria list of nice guy qualities you are seeking and then make your actual decisions completely counter to that list. OWN your obvious inconsistency.

 

We aren't stupid. We see the rationalizations and complete avoidance of accountability. JUST OWN IT ALREADY FFS.

 

My gf has acknowledged on several occasions, in generalities, but obviously in reference to her own views, that "you think about these things" (i.e. money) when it comes to relationships. Initially I got mad at her, but then I realized that she's at least honest, so it's mostly fair.

The truth is, a long term relationship cannot be sustained without money, so I say it is preferable to have someone who acknowledges it in a as-a-matter-of-factly way than someone full of angst that will do anything to rationalize it away just so they look better in their own or other's eyes.

[carhill]

I'm not bitter.

 

 

 

I'm realistic.

It's a running joke; he usually says it, then says 'want another beer?'

[donnamaybe]

My gf has acknowledged on several occasions, in generalities, but obviously in reference to her own views, that "you think about these things" (i.e. money) when it comes to relationships. Initially I got mad at her, but then I realized that she's at least honest, so it's mostly fair.

The truth is, a long term relationship cannot be sustained without money, so I say it is preferable to have someone who acknowledges it in a as-a-matter-of-factly way than someone full of angst that will do anything to rationalize it away just so they look better in their own or other's eyes.

 

But when someone makes a statement like "...women rationalize their blunt craving for money..." it makes us all sound like we're out here, rubbing our greedy little paws together, all scrapping over the guy with the biggest bank account.

 

As for myself, all I care about is that a guy not make my financial situation WORSE than before I met him.

[betamanlet]

But when someone makes a statement like "...women rationalize their blunt craving for money..." it makes us all sound like we're out here, rubbing our greedy little paws together, all scrapping over the guy with the biggest bank account.

 

As for myself, all I care about is that a guy not make my financial situation WORSE than before I met him.

 

 

But tons of guys have to deal with that. Many women have horrible credit, lots of debts, and it affects the guy when he marries her. The debt becomes a marital liability.. I know plenty of guys who got married that that free credit report song applies to.

[carhill]

I remember how simple and inexpensive that marriage license was to obtain. I'm thinking that a nice solid partnership agreement, similar to what we use in business, is much more suitable to such a sweeping array of rights and responsibilities as marriage entails

 

I'm sure independent and solvent women all over will agree. It's time. I love equality

[donnamaybe]

But tons of guys have to deal with that. Many women have horrible credit, lots of debts, and it affects the guy when he marries her. The debt becomes a marital liability.. I know plenty of guys who got married that that free credit report song applies to.

 

My guy is currently dealing with an account that was assigned to his ex 10 YEARS AGO to pay. She never paid it; increased the balance in fact. His paycheck is easier to get at so, even though the divorce decree says she is to "forever hold petitioner harmless" from said debt, he's being harmed.

 

But she'll have her day in court on her order to show cause and have to explain to the same judge who signed the divorce decree why she is now ignoring said judge. I'm thinking she'll find some way to come up with the money to pay my sweety back before she winds up serving time for contempt of court.

 

But yeah. It happens. And it can happen to women too. I've read stories here on LS and know some IRL, so don't think it's always MEN who have to deal with dead beats. Hell, if my 15 year old 5'10" 190 lb son's dad would pay his measly $169 a month child support, I'd be f'ing overjoyed!

 

By the way, the only debt I have is my mortgage.

[paddington bear]

So it has boiled down to this, the problem with dating nowadays is financial?

 

Let's just talk about marriage. Marriage, in the western world anyway, has always had its roots in money and not emotions or love, it was more of a business deal. That was the whole reason for the legalities of it, that land could be merged, rich families would come together and be more powerful, princes and princesses would unite countries by marrying and therefore provide powerful allies financially and militarily. Historically marriage was not to do with love and romance but with money and power.

 

Because property and wealth were passed down through the male line, women would come with dowrys, take her and you get a s**t load of money for taking her off our hands, she's worthless otherwise as she's not a man and therefore cannot bring you wealth..unless she gives you a son who can then pass on the wealth by hopefully merging with a woman from a rich family with land.

 

It is only now that times have changed that we have turned marriage into this big, romantic, best day of our lives with so much emotional meaning behind it.

 

Genetically woman are programmed to want 'the best provider', back in caveman times this would I guess be described as the guy who killed and captured and then dragged a woolly mammoth behind him back to his woman in the cave. "ooooh Ug, you are so dreamy, that weakling Gnrr over there could never kill a mammoth, if I mate with you, our children will survive because they won't starve".

 

Now, the best provider is a man that could provide for a potential family - but this ingrained impulse in women to look for that provider has, I think got twisted by many modern women into a grasping, desperation for wealth and status - the kind that only very few men can in reality provide.

 

Genetically men are programmed to impregnate as much as possible. We cannot alter this simple fact. We are animals, despite what we think. Since the pill was invented, men's desire for sex has been sated by the fact that women could have sex without worry of pregnancy...but...with so much choice out there, the grass is always greener, there is always another women out there who could potentially be better. There is no reason to see the value in the person right there in front of you.

 

None of us, male or female are satisfied with what we have, because we have too much choice in the dating world, the threat of unwanted pregnancy is eliminated, expectations of family to marry by a certain age and to someone that they approve of or an arranged marriage (again in Western world) is gone. The result is that we all see each other as disposable.

 

Whereas perhaps in former times, you were lucky to simply have sex at all and to find a husband or wife who at least treated you well now that is not good enough because we base relationships and marriage on love (quite rightly) we expect too much of them, and of course we all know the financial consequences, usually for the man, should the marriage breakdown (back to finances...), so there is a lot of pressure to find 'the right one' and so we all keep waiting for that imaginary person who does not exit, and let hundreds of 'right ones' pass through our fingers because we are a bunch of spoiled, brats always thinking we can do better.

 

We want too much now, want it all, perfect figure, perfect financial figures, to sow the wild oats before settling down and thus years and decades pass by with all of us getting repeatedly heart-broken, or ignored and with each passing year, more world-weary and more cynical of relationships and so end up feeling somewhat hard-done-by and just give up on the whole love thing.

[donnamaybe]

What a sad viewpoint you have. I would HATE to be that jaded!

[paddington bear]

What a sad viewpoint you have. I would HATE to be that jaded!

 

ha ha! Yeah you might have a point...I like to see it less as 'jaded' and more as realistic. There is a problem with 'the dating world' now, and not just in the States...sometimes I wonder how people actually get together at all, and IMO while arranged marriages, marriages based on a business deal are not desirable, what we have now is equally as bad in a very different way...there is a lot of lost souls wandering around out there - lovely, desirable people who one would think should have a boyfriend/girlfriend, or husband/wife but have no idea what love is, how to get it, sustain it, how to even get a date...there is something wrong there and I find it very sad.

[Miko]

What a sad viewpoint you have. I would HATE to be that jaded!

 

I agree that does sound a bit depressing but there are some fair points there.

 

I think the main problem is that the 'game' we play now has so many 'rules' that people have internalized. I think long ago the 'game' was still there but the lesser impact of media, movies etc. allowed it to be more fun & less 'work' b/c we had fewer preconceived notions about people and 'micro-stereotypes' as I would call them.

 

It's like a lot of pro sports now. Everything's a penalty or a foul so they're always stopping the game to bicker about technicalities when we should just be having fun.