And so comes the txt from the xMM's W.....

[hopeless4u]

Just to answer a few questions that have come up from my previous threads.

 

Yes the PA had ended but the EA was still going strong.

 

We did 'fall off the wagon' 1 night but did NOT have sex, just kissed, alot!

 

We did have 'intense' conversations over the weekend about when the NC starts and how we will deal with it.

 

Yes we do/did still put xx on txt's we send.

 

So yes he was xMM (well in our minds) before he got caught, we just hadn't taken that final step.

 

So all that said, he got caught, the **** hit the fan and I refused to speak to his W because I will not lie to her.

 

He has spent the last 2 days trying to say the right things to his W to save his M (I expected this). He has also asked me to lie(I expected this too).

 

His W spent all of last night ringing and txting me (I didn't answer), he spent all of last night in his car, ringing and txting me(I didn't answer).

 

So after about 2 hrs sleep I go to work to find out, she wants to know if its over(this I know is her taking him back) so I txt her and say 'yes its over', he wants to fill me in on the lies he has told her so I back him up if I speak to her!! WTF!!

 

He buys me a coffee and says he's staying at his mother's, marriage is well and truly over (W can't forgive, even the watered down version) and will keep me posted. I say to him, let her calm down and see things clearly, she may still forgive him, she still does not know the truth about how long, how intense and the sex(he told her a couple of times and he could not perform) and I have not told her.

 

So I hear nothing until I'm driving home, I get a txt from the W saying they are going to try and work on the M and could I please let him go to give them a fighting chance.

 

I haven't answered the txt yet because I can't get my head around how he is still 'keeping her' in this M with lies, part of me wants to just say 'of course I will let him go' I do respect his W, she is going through hell and I don't want to cause her any more pain(none of this is her fault) and she has been nothing but respectful to me....but the other part of me wants to 'out' him for the scumbag, bastard he is(I have told him this) but by doing this it makes me look vindictive and bitter which TBH I'm not.

 

I think I have always expected this outcome so I'm not actually that surprised and had already said to friends (not xMM) that even if she didn't take him back I'm not sure we have a future together, maybe thats why I didn't tell her the full truth, maybe deep down I wanted her to take him back so I didn't have to.

 

My head is spinning right now....I want to do the right thing but I don't know what the right thing is??

[donnamaybe]

Now that this cheater realizes he can placate his W with pretty lies and she'll stay, he'll simply find another OW to pump up his ego.

 

The W would be better off knowing all about the dog she's lying with at night.

[NoIDidn't]

I totally accept your right to not speak to her, but I have a hard time understanding why you are willing to continue speaking to him.

 

In the same position as you, I would not speak to him EVER again. No man will have my time if he asks me to help him continue his primary relationship while basically lying about my involvement with him.

 

When are you just going to go NC with him? What is the point of talking about how to handle NC? Actually, there is no point to it. Just like another poster here who said she was not willing to continue an affair but failed miserably at NC. She is still in an affair - and so are you.

 

Until you stop contact with him regarding his feelings, your feelings, his marriage, blah blah and blah - you are still in the affair and you will be contributing to the pain this woman is feeling.

 

She has been respectful of you and your feelings so far. But if you continue with the "intense" conversations and meeting for coffee with her H (regardless of who initiates it), the gloves will likely come off. If she was relentless with the phone calls and texts last night (I thought she was sleeping), you guys have only seen the tip of the iceberg in what she is capable of when its her way of life that is being threatened.

 

I am not threatening you with what she may or may not do. I am only trying to show you how you had the power to keep it from getting to that point by just speaking to the woman when you first had the chance. Something about that tangled weave.....

 

You still have the option to call and speak to her. She wants you to let go. Maybe she needs to know that its her H that is also in need of letting go of you.

[Hazyhead]

I think she doesn't realise the truth, or doesn't want to realise. What do you want to text her back, really? What about calling her instead? Although she may just hang up on you if she doesn't want to know. I'm in two minds over this, if she doesn't want to see the truth, telling her might pull you in further to a bad situation and be heart-breaking for her when she may still take him back. On the other hand, a response like 'I have tried to let him go but he always comes back... ring me if you would like to talk' might be a way of leaving it up to her and therefore taking the difficult decision off you and out of his manipulative hands.

 

Good luck H4U.

[lovekillsslowly]

Say nothing. Let him burn his own d**n bridges!! If he wants to continue to try to rebuild his marriage by lying to his W so be it.

 

Take comfort in knowing "what comes around goes around" and he will get his someday. You just don't need to be the cause of his getting his go round.

 

I feel for you girl! They're PIGS I tell you!!! LYING PIGS!!!! Hang in there!!

[2sunny]

so he is now lying to you as well. he expects you to go along with his lies.

 

i've been the BS, the thing i would have liked the most would have been to know the whole truth. she deserves it - whatever she may want answers to - nothing more. he's obviously not going to provide that - so i would say - give her the truth she deserves... then step away.

 

you can never go wrong with the truth.

[jwi71]

h4u,

 

I'm gonna call you out again.

 

You had this whole big wonderful thread of how you won't lie to her. Then you do (by avoidance and omission).

 

And you do so yet again.

 

h4u...do you LIKE this drama? You seem to seek it out. You do everything you can to continue it...avoid the W, meet the MM, "fall of the wagon", keep in contact...sorry, but you aren't ACTING like you want this drama to end.

 

Because if you did want this to be over...you would ACT like it. You say you don't like the "spinning head" and do exactly NOTHING to prevent it. In fact, you PARTICIPATE still.

 

If you TRULY want this to end...then end it. You know how.

[NoIDidn't]

On the other hand, a response like 'I have tried to let him go but he always comes back... ring me if you would like to talk' might be a way of leaving it up to her and therefore taking the difficult decision off you and out of his manipulative hands.

 

Good luck H4U.

 

I like this suggestion. It will hurt her to read it, but its giving her more information than she now has and invites her to call back if she really wants to talk/get more info about her H's actions.

 

Say nothing. Let him burn his own d**n bridges!! If he wants to continue to try to rebuild his marriage by lying to his W so be it.

 

From the last text from the W, it sounds like she is starting to break under the pressure of his lies. Sounds like she is trying to believe him even though she clearly doesn't. It also sounds like he may be throwing HL4U under the bus if the W is asking HL4U to "let go" when he has responsibility in this as well.

 

I don't agree with saying nothing though, unless it also includes saying nothing to him ever again as well. It she takes herself out of the equation entirely, then he will be burning the bridge alone.

[whichwayisup]

Somehow, you need to make up your mind about talking to her. Either do it, or don't. If you don't, then cut contact completely with him and ignore him.

 

Honestly, I think for your own sake, talking to her might help you heal, let go and have some closure. Because, he is lying to you, he's lying to her, and he is desparate trying to cover his ass..

 

Just hope the EA part is really over and you don't have hope that it'll continue.

[hopeless4u]

I totally accept your right to not speak to her, but I have a hard time understanding why you are willing to continue speaking to him.

 

In the same position as you, I would not speak to him EVER again. No man will have my time if he asks me to help him continue his primary relationship while basically lying about my involvement with him.

 

When are you just going to go NC with him? What is the point of talking about how to handle NC? Actually, there is no point to it. Just like another poster here who said she was not willing to continue an affair but failed miserably at NC. She is still in an affair - and so are you.

 

Until you stop contact with him regarding his feelings, your feelings, his marriage, blah blah and blah - you are still in the affair and you will be contributing to the pain this woman is feeling.

 

She has been respectful of you and your feelings so far. But if you continue with the "intense" conversations and meeting for coffee with her H (regardless of who initiates it), the gloves will likely come off. If she was relentless with the phone calls and texts last night (I thought she was sleeping), you guys have only seen the tip of the iceberg in what she is capable of when its her way of life that is being threatened.

 

I am not threatening you with what she may or may not do. I am only trying to show you how you had the power to keep it from getting to that point by just speaking to the woman when you first had the chance. Something about that tangled weave.....

 

You still have the option to call and speak to her. She wants you to let go. Maybe she needs to know that its her H that is also in need of letting go of you.[/quote

 

I didn't really know what to do TBH, speaking to him after his W found out was a natural reaction I guess, I needed to know what was going on.

 

I wish so much now that I had answered her call and just told her everything.

 

I don't know if at first I was protecting him, it wasn't until this morning that I realised I was helping him keep his M by not talking to her.

 

Maybe I hoped this was it, the day I'd been hoping for, I just don't know.

 

I did think about txting her this site address and let nature take its course.

 

I have not heard from him since her txt so maybe this really is it, maybe he is giving 100% to her.

[PhoenixRise]

I think she doesn't realise the truth, or doesn't want to realise. What do you want to text her back, really? What about calling her instead? Although she may just hang up on you if she doesn't want to know. I'm in two minds over this, if she doesn't want to see the truth, telling her might pull you in further to a bad situation and be heart-breaking for her when she may still take him back. On the other hand, a response like 'I have tried to let him go but he always comes back... ring me if you would like to talk' might be a way of leaving it up to her and therefore taking the difficult decision off you and out of his manipulative hands.

 

Good luck H4U.

 

 

She wants to know. She has been begging to know.

 

hopeless4u

 

Instead of telling her the truth, you helped her H placate her by your text confirmation that it was over. So don't act all incredulous that he is keeping her in the marriage with lies when you helped him cement the lie by giving her only a fraction of the truth (the fraction that you and MM figured would serve MM best).

 

You say MM is telling you the M is over

The W is texting you that they are going to try to work it out.

 

You said MM told you the wife was tranquilized and sleeping last night.

Now you say the W was calling and texting you all night while you avoided her.

 

This is indeed a tangled web of lies.

 

This affair is so not over.

[2sunny]

and if you said to her that it is over - then hold true to your word. don't ever speak to him or see him again... or you are just as willing to lie and participate in the deceit as he is.

 

if you told her it's over - do not have any further contact with HIM.

[hopeless4u]

I won't speak to him if he tries to get in touch but I still don't know what to do with 'the truth'.

 

I do like the suggestion of 'I have tried to let him go but he always comes back... ring me if you would like to talk'

 

What I don't want is for his W to think I am just being bitter, that is not my nature and xMM knows this. I was a BW a long time ago so I do know what she is going through and he has told her that as she included this in her txt.

 

I read my posts and yes jw maybe the drama was fun at the beginning, the attraction and excitement, but trust me I think you are mixing me seemingly liking the drama to total confusion. 1 minute I want 1 thing and the next I want another! Also I'm not very good at putting in words what I'm saying in my head.

I loose track and waffle!!

[2sure]

hopeless...

 

as a BS I havent wanted to comment because I have ...nothing nice to say to you right now. I think after you are truly away from all of this, you are going to have an WTF moment and come to some realizations. On your own.

 

That being said...send the wife something with the SAME verbiage you used in the first post of this thread. Its about the best thing Ive read as far as what OW could say to BS to do the right thing without creating more animosity.

[2sunny]

I do like the suggestion of 'I have tried to let him go but he always comes back... ring me if you would like to talk'

 

this seems right. it leaves her the option to contact, then just follow her lead. DO NOT avoid her any longer. if she calls, YOU answer. the sooner you get this out of the way - the sooner it can leave your mind completely.

 

in the meantime - do NOT have a drink tonight or any night until the conversation with her is behind you. to use that as an excuse to avoid her is completely unfair and just delays the inevitable... she needs to talk and you need to make yourself available... it's the least you can do for her considering the circumstances.

 

also, do NOT believe him if he says she's gone to bed - taken pills to sleep - he lies! he lies about everything - so get the truth from her as well.

[hopeless4u]

She wants to know. She has been begging to know.

 

hopeless4u

 

Instead of telling her the truth, you helped her H placate her by your text confirmation that it was over. So don't act all incredulous that he is keeping her in the marriage with lies when you helped him cement the lie by giving her only a fraction of the truth (the fraction that you and MM figured would serve MM best).

 

You say MM is telling you the M is over

The W is texting you that they are going to try to work it out.

 

You said MM told you the wife was tranquilized and sleeping last night.

Now you say the W was calling and texting you all night while you avoided her.

 

This is indeed a tangled web of lies.

 

This affair is so not over.

 

Yes PR I know that I helped in lying to her, this is what is eating away at me. I wish I had answered the phone when she 1st called and told her everything before I'd spoken to him.

 

xMM said this morning that the M was over and his W would never forgive him, he also told me last night she had taken sleeping pills so I'd hear nothing more from her, that was the reason I said that on the post.

 

I don't know what he has told her and the only way I will is by phoning her but isn't that making her suffer even more?

 

This A is soo over, trust me, I will not go back there again.

[whichwayisup]

Why would it make her suffer more? SHE KEEPS trying to contact you. She wants to talk to you.

 

Look when she calls again, and she will, answer the phone. You say you feel bad, want her to know everything, right? This is YOUR chance to come clean and let her know how awful you feel about it all and apologize. Even if she is upset, or angry, she will eventually respect YOU for telling her because she wants to know. Her H, your exMM is lying and gaslighting her. She knows this and that's another reason why she wants to talk to you. I'm also betting he's thrown you under the bus, made it seem like YOU are the one contacting him.

[PhoenixRise]

hopeless4u

 

simply answering or returning a phone call and answering questions honestly and simply would not have shown any vindictiveness or bitterness.

 

HOWEVER

 

It would have pissed off MM and possibly completely closed the door on your relationship with him. I think this was your primary concern.

 

Ok so you judged keeping your relationship with him more important than giving her the truth...OK....it is your right to make that judgment for yourself.

 

BUT you went beyond not giving her the truth to aiding and abetting his gaslighting when you gave her what I initially called a fraction of the truth, but was actually a total lie (that it was over).

 

It is not over if you were just that morning sending him cutesy text messages.

 

It is not over if you had "intense conversations" all weekend long about NC???

 

It is not over if you fell off the wagon just a few days ago.

[stampdaddy]

Now you listen and you listen good!!

 

YOU are the only one with control right now. Do you realize that? But what you have to be ONLY concerned with controlling is YOUR LIFE. See, whether you tell her or not, with the bastard lying all of the time, she, nor their marriage is in control. He is so flipping out of control because of the lies he is spinning every other second, to BOTH of you.

 

I am not recommending that you tell her or don't tell her (although, from my own personal experience, I told ONLY because I was asked... AND, it didnt change a thing, well at least it has taken over 2 1/2 years and still isnt done with)

 

You need to take total control of YOUR life, and not worry about theirs/her/his anymore.. I would KILL to have done that years ago...

 

I can type it, but I know you won't do it..

[2sunny]

and you also have allowed him to reel you into the deception further by listening to his stories of what his lies actually are to his W. this has played mind games for YOU. you allowed it - and his manipulative ways have worked... it bought him more time to manipulate his wife with more lies. i'm sure she has lies about YOU too.

 

see where all the LIES puts everyone? it makes everyone involved wonder where the truth is...

 

she has asked for the truth from you - now you need to be a big girl and face what is difficult. you helped create this situation and you need to own what part you played in it.

 

set things RIGHT for YOU and for his W, allow her and honest, heartfelt conversation that doesn't involved being guarded or defensive... then YOU will have some relief as much as she will. the truth will never steer you wrong.

[PhoenixRise]

Yes PR I know that I helped in lying to her, this is what is eating away at me. I wish I had answered the phone when she 1st called and told her everything before I'd spoken to him.

 

xMM said this morning that the M was over and his W would never forgive him, he also told me last night she had taken sleeping pills so I'd hear nothing more from her, that was the reason I said that on the post.

 

I don't know what he has told her and the only way I will is by phoning her but isn't that making her suffer even more?

 

This A is soo over, trust me, I will not go back there again.

 

 

hopeless4u

 

You say you have been a BS..

 

Do you remember what it is like when the person you love is telling you something that you desperately want to believe but your instincts are screaming something different?

 

The life you have built, the family you have built, up till this point depends on you being able to believe what your spouse is telling you...but your gut is telling you that your spouse is lying to you.

 

It is torture.

 

She will spend hours, days, months, trying to make it all fit and make sense. Trying to balance what your husband is telling her (and what she want to believe) with what her gut is telling her. AND it will never all make sense to her because it is all a lie.

 

It is all a lie that you actively helped perpetuate.

 

If it really is eating you up then you have the opportunity to make it right. Call her. Tell her she can ask any questions and you will answer honestly.

Edited December 16, 2009 by PhoenixRise

[jwi71]

I read my posts and yes jw maybe the drama was fun at the beginning, the attraction and excitement, but trust me I think you are mixing me seemingly liking the drama to total confusion. 1 minute I want 1 thing and the next I want another! Also I'm not very good at putting in words what I'm saying in my head.

I loose track and waffle!!

 

Confusion: When one's heart disagrees with one's mind.

 

Right now, your heart is NOT your friend. You need to tune it out if you can and listen to your mind. Its easy for me, for some of us on the outside, because our hearts are NOT involved. Only our minds.

 

h4u, you have been fully and completely tossed under the bus. The proof is there on the first page of this thread. Read again. Try and read and ONLY use that brain in your head. Do you see it?

 

His W, the innocent party in this, is gaslit into oblivion. Again, the proof is there.

 

Do you truly believe he has come clean to his mother? That his mother knows all? Not likely. Why? Because the minute his W and his mom talk...the differences in the stories will come out. He told his MOTHER the same lies.

 

He asks you to LIE to both, to all, to the world.

 

All of this pain and suffering and drama and confusion you feel I WANT TO END FOR YOU. Been there, done that - it sucks (I'm a BH).

 

There are many ways out. Some I cannot fathom. The one tried and true method is the one I recommend. Its not easy. Not even close.

 

It IS 100% effective.

 

You want this to end?

I PROMISE this ends it:

 

1) Own your role - own it.

2) Be truthful to ALL and avoid/omit NOTHING (even when lying is easier)

3) NC

 

You do this h4u...your spinning head stops. Your confusion stops. Your pain ends sooner. This hell ends sooner.

 

The power is yours. You have always had it. You always will have it.

But you gotta choose it. You have to use it. Its USELESS when left untouched and unused.

 

Hard as hell - for now. You can drag this out over weeks and months (even years I have read here on LS). Or end it now.

 

Choose.

[hopeless4u]

hopeless...

 

as a BS I havent wanted to comment because I have ...nothing nice to say to you right now. I think after you are truly away from all of this, you are going to have an WTF moment and come to some realizations. On your own.

 

That being said...send the wife something with the SAME verbiage you used in the first post of this thread. Its about the best thing Ive read as far as what OW could say to BS to do the right thing without creating more animosity.

 

Thankyou 2sure, I hate myself right now and I don't blame you for not having anything nice to say, 15yrs ago when I was in xMM'x W position I also wouldn't like me!!

 

I will speak to her at some stage and on her terms. Maybe send her a txt saying I am willing to answer any questions she wants answering and just be honest.

I know he hasn't been honest though so is this just messing with things??

 

Maybe I should just leave them alone and let them get on with their lives.? I mean seriously, if she is happy then is it right for me to interfere?

[pureinheart]

Wow...I am so sorry for what is going on and happening...I have been just praying for you and asking for wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

 

For me, I had very strong feelings for ex-MM (now ex-B/F)...during his marriage I felt so guilty for having these feelings because I really did respect his M...he didn't, but pretended like he did.

 

Now with what I have researched and learned he is a drama king, narcissist, and pathological liar. He used many damaging techniques on me that have almost killed me, one of them is called Tramatic Bonding.

 

Without judging, this could be a possible tactic that he uses on people. Certainly there are those that "make a mistake" (and by all means not insinuating that you or anyone else is a mistake), these are generally good people that lost their way....but, you have those that purpose in their hearts to hurt others....your exMM might be one of these.

 

Looking at your situation....H cheats, gets caught, then lies, then wants you to back him....possibly any one of these character defects may not be a problem in the singular sense....BUT ALL OF THEM ....nope.

 

I know you know what he is, although possibly deep down you really had deep feelings for this jerk, and this what might need to be addressed. You are not the jerk, but because of possible feelings you may feel like one too....you are not in his catagory at all....HE IS THE ONE THAT IS M, NOT YOU, now it is up to you to love and respect yourself (in the ways he never did) to rid yourself of this parasite.

 

The encounters seem innocent, but they are not...they are a form to keep you trapped. Go through the withdrawl of NC and break the mind control that he has placed....this may sound dramatic, although mind control is very real.

 

A person that has wronged others fesses up....lying is arrogant.

 

There is no quick fix concerning a broken heart, broken dreams and just being broken period.....but know that you are precious and this should not have happened and it is not your fault....

[2sunny]

I know he hasn't been honest though so is this just messing with things??

 

no, it's not messing with things because she has asked - now you need to deliver. put your big girl panties on and step up to the big girl table!

 

the only reason you would avoid this is to look good to your MM, and with hopes that he won't be so mad at you - then will consider you in the future IF things don't work out in his M. don't leave yourself that option. take your power back and tell the truth. you will never respect yourself if you take the wimpy way out at this juncture and run away silently.

 

 

Maybe I should just leave them alone and let them get on with their lives.? I mean seriously, if she is happy then is it right for me to interfere?

 

since she has asked - this is no longer YOUR choice, you now owe her the respect of having the truth. how could she possibly be happy when she's sitting there wondering why you are avoiding her? wondering when you are going to man up and call? wondering if and when she may get a shred of truth since her gut is making her physically ill and her husband is just willing to make it all worse by lying even further.

 

to leave them alone AFTER you tell her is the right order... after you make the call - you will no longer need to worry about contacting either one of them... i think this is what you are afraid of - he won't contact you after you tell... am i right?