Chickensh*t

[Boundary Problem]

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or not...maybe they are just people who are willing and unafraid to put their marriages on the line because they have weighed the odds and the odds are they will probably get away with it...or that the betrayed spouse will probably not leave....pain, hurt, anger...notwithstanding...

 

 

I agree with this. They want the benefits of marriage. and they aren't the ones who pay the pain,hurt,anger price.

 

Basically the MM wants the benefit of the affair and marriage. With all of the risk being paid emotionally by the spouse that they supposedly love.

 

I don't see why a decently functioning MM can't go to his wife/husband and say - look you are refusing to have sex with me, either fix that or I'm getting a girlfriend/boyfriend on the side. It is the dishonesty and the secrets I think that hurt the betrayed spouse the most.

[MizFit]

The emotional and sexual connection with my AP was strong. Neither are there with my husband. I was separated when our PA started. I moved home when my apartment lease ran out. Why? I don't really know a particular reason, but know it had to do with love, a history together (33 years all together), children (adult), financial security, etc. Many things. I'm still not happy and unsure. I like unsure better than chicken****. I never made any promises and remained honest that I was always unsure to my AP.

 

Wow...if you were a man I'd ask if your name were Trevor!

 

My MM never made any promises...said if he got caught he would do all he could to go back home, which he did. He was up front about his situation, but it turned into more than either of us bargained for. DDay was almost 6 weeks ago and NC was taken to LC within a week or two and then basically tossed now. I keep asking why he'd risk it so soon, or at all, and he has no good idea as to why.

 

I don't think he was chickenshlt...he did what he said he'd do and the only surprise is him breaking the NC. He has an adult daughter with learning disabilities and a business run by he and his W...he's not far from retiring and he was clear they would be (and were) factors in his staying.

[White Flower]

Which is the best way to approach any R. Once the costs outweigh the benefits, it's time to go.

 

And the costs, and benefits, of any R are known best to those inside it - not all factors are weighted equally by all people.

This is the best advice I've seen regarding relationships ever.

[wheelwright]

I think that it's highly likely that MW's and MM's are more gutless than the general population is when they involve themselves in affairs. It takes a lot more courage to leave a relationship and be truly alone with yourself for a while. Some don't want to actually feel the full scope of the hurt and pain that remains and they jump into something else before they have had time to grieve, mourn and examine what really went wrong. Sometimes the person that it's hardest to be alone with with is ourselves. It's not fair to anyone, most of all, ourselves.

 

 

I've had a tendency to do that myself, although not as a MW.

 

This seems right to me, but once it's a long M or one that involves kids it all changes. I am not afraid of being alone, but I am afraid of making a mistake.

[reboot]

Reboot! You're back! Where have you been lurking???

 

Hey WF. How ya been?

[MizzBlue72]

StampDaddy I have to agree.

For all of the NUMEROUS reasons on here that as OW we have ALL heard ....

 

MM told me point blank if I can NOT trust what he says then maybe he should not be with me.

 

I wanted to believe him ... but I don't. Millions of reasons he COULD have left. BILLIONS of reasons, chances etc. Bottom line is he doesn't want too.....

 

Makes you REALLY see as an OW exactly HOW important we are on the food chain ....

[White Flower]

Hey WF. How ya been?

Besides modifying the loan on my house, losing and finding a job, finalizing the D and dating all while raising my kids alone? Just fine and dandy!!!

[stampdaddy]

Besides modifying the loan on my house, losing and finding a job, finalizing the D and dating all while raising my kids alone? Just fine and dandy!!!

 

youre funny

[Owl]

That is why an extramarital relationship should always be about the journey not the destination.

 

My exSO is a compulsive gambler, so I hate gambling, I have seen all the negative consequences of it. I certainly do not consider my EMR gambling. I am in this relationship as long as the benefits outweigh the consequences, as long as I am happier in this relationship than out of it.

 

The idea of it being about the journey but not the destination SOUNDS great...but so does communism on paper.

 

The reality is that most people aren't willing to "settle" for the journey, even if that was their plan when it started. They instead get focused on the "destination"...when will the WS leave the BS for the OW/OM? Or that's what they're hoping for from the very beginning.

 

And even in the cases where it IS all just about the "journey"...that still doesn't change the emotional trauma and devestation that the BS nearly always ends up with as a result of dday. Sure, some affairs go undiscovered forever...but most don't, and regardless of how long afterwards the truth comes out, the devestation is nearly always the same for the BS.

[Owl]

On that point - she's been damaged forever. That was part of her original attraction, to both her xHs. They both thought they could fix her, and they both landed up becoming damaged themselves in the process, while she refused to consider herself damaged in anyway and refused to seek any kind of professional help. But, post-D, I hear she did feel "damaged" enough to seek some kind of counselling. I'm not sure if she's stuck with it this time, but I really do hope so. And, frankly, I consider that a positive outcome of the A - I don't care what got her into counselling, as long as she got there, and got the help she so desperately needs. For everyone's sake.

 

I won't argue that she could well have been "damaged" long before she ever even met your husband...don't take me wrong.

 

I do believe that she brought a lot of issues to the marriage, given all that you described. Her marriage to him may well have been doomed from the start.

 

The "damage" I was referring to however was the emotional trauma she undoubtedly went through as a result of his affair with you.

 

You're right...it may well have been the final thing to have caused her to seek counseling and get the help she needed...but to be honest, I doubt she'd ever thank you for it, even if she DOES get the help she needs.

 

Sometimes there ARE postive outcomes of our negative actions...but should we let those rare moments of irony become our guide (or even our wishing star) and continue to do things that are most likely to hurt others, in the hopes that we repeat that happenstance? Or should we recognize that we "got lucky" that one time...but continue to realize that what we do impacts others around us?

 

Which is the best way to approach any R. Once the costs outweigh the benefits, it's time to go.

 

And the costs, and benefits, of any R are known best to those inside it - not all factors are weighted equally by all people.

 

This, I agree with. The thing is...you should always end that relationship before you move on to the next. Even if it's not for you, it helps minimize and mitigate the damage you do to your previous partner on the way out.

[skywriter]

Sometimes there ARE postive outcomes of our negative actions...but should we let those rare moments of irony become our guide (or even our wishing star) and continue to do things that are most likely to hurt others, in the hopes that we repeat that happenstance? Or should we recognize that we "got lucky" that one time...but continue to realize that what we do impacts others around us?

 

I always appreciate your replies Owl.

[jennie-jennie]

The idea of it being about the journey but not the destination SOUNDS great...but so does communism on paper.

 

LOL Not only am I enjoying the journey of the EMR, but I also live in a well-functioning socialist country.

 

I do want my MM to divorce his wife and become my fulltime partner, but that is not a requirement for me to enjoy our relationship.

 

I check myself by asking every now and then "If our relationship ended today, would I be okay with the time that has passed?" and "Just for today, would I rather be in or out of this relationship?"

Edited December 21, 2009 by jennie-jennie

[tiredofit]

All I can say is thank you . I was in an afffair with

a MW and broke it off today. I stumbled on to this site searching for answers a few weeks ago. Luckily I didn't let it go on very long. Now I see the lies. I thought I could justifie it but after seeing how easy lying comes to to some and finding myself getting more attached each day I knew what I had to do. Thank you stamp, as much as it hurts to admit, you are dead on

[Impudent Oyster]

this is the only word that comes to my mind anymore when I think about a MW or MM...

 

I have been here now for a couple of years, and I have had my own personal nightmare of a story, followed up by another potential nightmare (but saw the light), and I remember when I came on here all broken hearted, but yet hopeful, and yes, believing WE were different, that SHE was different. I have read so many other stories, with new ones appearing every single day. I see the YEARS taken, I see the DAMAGE done to alot of people and it seems to have lead to one particular pattern:

 

MW and MM's are nothing less than CHICKEN SH*T!

 

What, one out of 1000 isn't?

 

I remember I used to think, "it's only been 6 months, how can I expect her to just "up and leave"? Then I was thinking, "ok, it's now a year, surely the "process" will start any day now..." Then I was thinking, "wtf? 2 years and nothing? maybe we'll get caught? yeah, that will change things..." Then I was thinking, "3 years now, we DID get caught! Now things will get rolling.." NOW I am thinking, " 5 years and what a piece of chickensh*t all MW and MM's are, especially MINE"

 

have a nice day

 

I guess I'm the lone voice of dissent here, because I don't agree.

 

I don't think MW or MM are staying married because they're afraid of anything, I just think they stay married because they want to.

 

People generally do what they want, including staying married and having an OP if they want and if that OP allows them to have it all, so to speak.

[stampdaddy]

All I can say is thank you . I was in an afffair with

a MW and broke it off today. I stumbled on to this site searching for answers a few weeks ago. Luckily I didn't let it go on very long. Now I see the lies. I thought I could justifie it but after seeing how easy lying comes to to some and finding myself getting more attached each day I knew what I had to do. Thank you stamp, as much as it hurts to admit, you are dead on

 

No thanks necessary.. I am VERY happy that you pulled the trigger... I just hate seeing that others are about to go down that road to hell..... Sure, do a few work out? Yes, but even then, it is NOT WORTH IT!!! EVER!!

 

Now you stay broken up, you hear?

[Impudent Oyster]

. I see the YEARS taken, I see the DAMAGE done to alot of people and it seems to have lead to one particular pattern:

 

.

 

And stampdaddy, no one is "taking" those years from you or any OP. You're giving them away.

[stampdaddy]

And stampdaddy, no one is "taking" those years from you or any OP. You're giving them away.

 

you know what, you are wrong.. When someone PROMISES that they are coming, that they are yours, that they will marry you, and all of the rest of that, I am sorry, but they are TAKING when all of those "promises" are nothing more than crap

[tiredofit]

And stampdaddy, no one is "taking" those years from you or any OP. You're giving them away.

 

 

True to a certain point Impudent. But when you're giving them under false pretenses as I was then thats the issue. It wasn't years in my case, just months. If I did not happen on to this site I'd still be wearing blinders. I am not some kid just falling off the turnip truck. I'm 50+ years old and always thought the best in ppl. I have been through a few marriages, and more than a few relationships. Andddd I will always look for the best in ppl. women espcially. Hell I love women lol. But as I saw more and more contraditions, lies , when she told me over and over how things were going to be. I came here and saw how many others, mostly women but some men were hearing the same it woke me up. I was 2nd, no matter how many times she told me different. It hurts but it's time to move on. I tried to break it off a week ago, couldn't do it. Today I did and I feel good about it.

[Spark1111]

I always believed love was an action, NOT a PROMISE TO ACT. I think my purest, most selfless love is for my children.

 

If the ship was sinking, I;d ensure they were on the lifeboast first.

 

I think love is about putting someone else first in your heart, forever. And while at times, you may be disappointed by their actions, their actions should match their promises.

 

I think if they loved you and wanted to be with you, they would construct a realistic timeline and move heaven and earth to be with you.

 

It happens every day.

 

So if they don't, it is all excuses, or "lies, lies, and more damndable lies."

 

And if it is not lies, then it really is Chickensh*t that can go on for years!

 

And if you did wind up being together, would it have been worth it? Or would you live in fear that their waffling and cowardice, or at the very least, their conflict avoidance would infuse and affect the relationship negatively?

 

Be cause it could. It really could. Who wants to be anyone's default choice, fercryingoutloud! It is certainly not a position of strength on which to build a relationship, IMHO.

 

I would never want anyone who didn't want me down to the very marrow of their bones. Relationships are too hard, for waffling in any way, shape or form.

[stampdaddy]

I guess I'm the lone voice of dissent here, because I don't agree.

 

I don't think MW or MM are staying married because they're afraid of anything, I just think they stay married because they want to.

 

People generally do what they want, including staying married and having an OP if they want and if that OP allows them to have it all, so to speak.

 

OK, so if this is true, then we should change the name from "Chickensh*t" to "Piece of Sh*t" for being so damn selfish

[wheelwright]

 

I would never want anyone who didn't want me down to the very marrow of their bones. Relationships are too hard, for waffling in any way, shape or form.

 

I did not want my H like this, nor him his W. She did not want him like this, nor my H me. Otherwise the A would not have happened.

 

No one who betrays another or allows themself to be betrayed wants the other to the marrow.

 

It would not happen. Because to the marrow talks of depth beyond ego.

[Impudent Oyster]

you know what, you are wrong.. When someone PROMISES that they are coming, that they are yours, that they will marry you, and all of the rest of that, I am sorry, but they are TAKING when all of those "promises" are nothing more than crap

 

Promises are just words, and the words of a liar at that.

 

It's actions that are important. A WS can promise the moon, but they are MARRIED. Until you see signed divorce papers you can't point the finger at anyone else for believing the words of a proven liar.

[Impudent Oyster]

OK, so if this is true, then we should change the name from "Chickensh*t" to "Piece of Sh*t" for being so damn selfish

 

 

If you wish...

 

But hold up, IF you know that the Chickensh*t or POS or whatever you want to call them was married when you got involved...well, what did you expect?

[Impudent Oyster]

True to a certain point Impudent. But when you're giving them under false pretenses as I was then thats the issue. It wasn't years in my case, just months. If I did not happen on to this site I'd still be wearing blinders. I am not some kid just falling off the turnip truck. I'm 50+ years old and always thought the best in ppl. I have been through a few marriages, and more than a few relationships. Andddd I will always look for the best in ppl. women espcially. Hell I love women lol. But as I saw more and more contraditions, lies , when she told me over and over how things were going to be. I came here and saw how many others, mostly women but some men were hearing the same it woke me up. I was 2nd, no matter how many times she told me different. It hurts but it's time to move on. I tried to break it off a week ago, couldn't do it. Today I did and I feel good about it.

 

 

IF you were aware that the MP was married when you got involved, where is the false pretense?

 

Look, by definition a MM/MW is a liar, it comes with the territory, so why all the disappointment when they don't come through?

 

I don't understand why people get involved with liars then are shocked that they lie. It's what you should expect.

 

BTW, congrats on getting out of a dead end relationship!

[Summerday]

It's been 7 years since my affair and my heart still sinks when I think about what I did, and I think about it quite often. The only good thing about it, is that I am a much better person. Try not to punish yourself too long.