With all this pain we seem to cause each other ..

[Simon Attwood]

you'd think we'd have learned something about ourselves by now?..

 

I came across this site while looking up "Walk Away Wife Syndrome", and was going to reply to a thread but it wouldn't let me because the thread was too old.

 

"Walk Away Wife Syndrome" means nothing. It's just words and only has the meaning that we give it and each person will give it a meaning that fits their circumstance. It's a concept, a label, that vastly oversimplifies a multiplicity of very complex situations.

 

I've read some articles on the subject that suggest it is due to a man not understanding or acknowledging signals from the wife that he needs to change;

 

1. what right does an adult have to expect another adult to change?

 

2. what should they change in to except an image of perfection that someone holds in their fantasy riddled heads?

 

3. Do all women who project their inner turmoil upon their relationships read celebrity gossip mags or watch celebrity gossip TV to feed their inner sense of core emptiness?

 

Essentially these women are being dictated to by their phylogenetically primitive inheritance, their inner animal, and their need to flee a situation that is psychically perceived as a threat to their identity. Their projections of inner conflicts upon their relationships are mere rationalisations in order to fit in with and aid their animal drives.

 

Any adult, male or female, that feels the need to impose an image upon a person, of what they expect that person to be, is suffering from a deeply narcissistic state and is unable to see their partner as a person, but rather a toy or play thing to mould and shape. It is this perception and perspective that enables them to inflict pain and suffering upon their partner and inhibits any sense of empathy with what their partner may be feeling.

 

There's too much pain and suffering on this site and it makes me angry at the ignorance of people that simply do not know themselves, nor want to know themselves, because deep down inside, they don't actually like themselves very much and they would prefer to project their dislike of themselves on to their partners.

 

We are weak, fragile, vulnerable and imperfect. Embrace it people!

[overlyConfused]

... Essentially these women are being dictated to by their phylogenetically primitive inheritance, their inner animal, and their need to flee a situation that is psychically perceived as a threat to their identity ...

 

I find these words to be profound. When my ex left me, she mentioned about not wanting to live in someone else's shadow. You see, when she first started working at her company, she was mentored by a more senior analyst. She is a very bright girl (one of the most intelligent people I've met), and she was able to pick things up very quickly. Regardless of the competence she displayed, people still associated her with the senior analyst ... even if the work and success was entirely hers.

 

When I told her that I was able to set up a job interview with her company (something she had suggested many times in the past), one of the first things that she said was that she was "sick of working in someone else's shadow" ... and that she was finally breaking the association she had with her original mentor and becoming her own self.

 

Perhaps I am over-analyzing this and she truly is screwing one of her co-workers ... as many people on LS have suggested.

[karnak]

you'd think we'd have learned something about ourselves by now?..

 

I came across this site while looking up "Walk Away Wife Syndrome", and was going to reply to a thread but it wouldn't let me because the thread was too old.

 

"Walk Away Wife Syndrome" means nothing. It's just words and only has the meaning that we give it and each person will give it a meaning that fits their circumstance. It's a concept, a label, that vastly oversimplifies a multiplicity of very complex situations.

 

I've read some articles on the subject that suggest it is due to a man not understanding or acknowledging signals from the wife that he needs to change;

 

1. what right does an adult have to expect another adult to change?

 

2. what should they change in to except an image of perfection that someone holds in their fantasy riddled heads?

 

3. Do all women who project their inner turmoil upon their relationships read celebrity gossip mags or watch celebrity gossip TV to feed their inner sense of core emptiness?

 

Essentially these women are being dictated to by their phylogenetically primitive inheritance, their inner animal, and their need to flee a situation that is psychically perceived as a threat to their identity. Their projections of inner conflicts upon their relationships are mere rationalisations in order to fit in with and aid their animal drives.

 

Any adult, male or female, that feels the need to impose an image upon a person, of what they expect that person to be, is suffering from a deeply narcissistic state and is unable to see their partner as a person, but rather a toy or play thing to mould and shape. It is this perception and perspective that enables them to inflict pain and suffering upon their partner and inhibits any sense of empathy with what their partner may be feeling.

 

There's too much pain and suffering on this site and it makes me angry at the ignorance of people that simply do not know themselves, nor want to know themselves, because deep down inside, they don't actually like themselves very much and they would prefer to project their dislike of themselves on to their partners.

 

We are weak, fragile, vulnerable and imperfect. Embrace it people!

 

Very true, Simon.

 

In fact we want so much to be happy that we forget that, in the end, everyone will just do what they want. Regardless of the feelings of others.

Many times, when a man or a woman leaves the marriage or has an affair, we try to justify it with "confusion", "mid-life crisis", "too much stress", etc.

 

Yet we forget that everyone else (like us) has its own agenda, and ways by which they perceive the world.

 

The older I get, the more I have proof that, most times, the reasons why people leave their marriages, kids and familes is this:

 

It was all a lie from the beginning. Men and women walk to the aisle to swear eternal love to their spouse. Yet they do this without feeling any real love. Some think they do. But they really don't.

 

And so many husbands or wives spend 10 or 20 years married to a person who probably doesn't love them, really never did them and never will.

 

Until the time in which they meet someone who they think is "the one" or decide they're tired of their relationship and want to try something new. And then they leave, or have affairs.

 

Does this mean that most marriages are frauds? Yes, they are. Unconscious frauds, most of the time (meaning that one of the spouses believes he/she is "in love", yet can't distinguish between emotional love and passion/lust).

 

Many people who are victims of betrayal by their spouses claim that their significant other is in a "fog". Yet, it was a similar "fog" that perhaps led them to marry in the first place, without really considering if they loved (really loved) the person they were wedding.

[SimplyBeingLoved]

Does this mean that most marriages are frauds? Yes, they are. Unconscious frauds, most of the time (meaning that one of the spouses believes he/she is "in love", yet can't distinguish between emotional love and passion/lust).

 

Many people who are victims of betrayal by their spouses claim that their significant other is in a "fog". Yet, it was a similar "fog" that perhaps led them to marry in the first place, without really considering if they loved (really loved) the person they were wedding.

 

Very interesting post, Karnak.

 

I think "fraud" is a bit strong in many cases, but I do think people get married thinking that what they have is "emotional love" when it's really something else altogether. Fear of being alone, friendship, societal validation, lust, biological clock ticking and "good" man comes along, family pressure, etc. etc.

 

About the "fog"... It was more as if I was in a "fog" for the last 5 years until I finally came to the realization I was not happy. It was coming OUT of a "fog" that made me realize I was unhappy in the marriage.

[Simon Attwood]

Marriage is the triumph of society over our nature, our phylogenetic heritage.

 

The destruction of a marriage, is the revenge of our inner animal over our higher selves.

 

I would suggest that a few decades ago, where people worked harder to keep a marriage together, they were actually working harder to keep their primitive impulses in check and that the bond of society was a stronger influence over our inner animal. Modern society, unfortunately, has allowed that animal much more breathing room.

[overlyConfused]

... It was all a lie from the beginning. Men and women walk to the aisle to swear eternal love to their spouse. Yet they do this without feeling any real love. Some think they do. But they really don't ...

 

karnak: you seem to have a definitive explanation of what "love" is. Could you please elaborate? What is this "real love" that you speak of? Also, are you completely ruling out the fact that marriages can last with hard work? Or are you simply stating that we must all be "soul mates" to whom we live our lives together?

[Gunny376]

Marriage in its original concept had very little to do with romance and 'being in love' as it had to do with procreation, survival, and a form of social security for the parents, grandparents.

 

In fact "being in love" was on the tail end of the list of the reasons for getting married.

 

Initially I believe men and women were more 'alike' than 'dislike' in that both were more intune with their emotions and each others emotions.

 

But as modern civilization evolved, men were compelled to become more and more disassociated with their own personal emotions and detached from any and all emotions ~ save one ~ ANGER

 

Why? Because ancient armies were not comprised as they are now of men (and women) who were previously disassociated with one another, but of brothers, fathers, first cousins, second cousins, uncles, tribesmen, clansmen.

 

To become overly emotional in combat is to lose one's head. To lose one's head emotionally ~ is to lose one's head physically. (Ref: "Why Men Don't Get Enough Sex, And Women Don't Get Enough Love"

 

Men and women are different ~ and not just in a anatomical way. Their minds are literally wired differently. Notice the difference between men and women's eyes. Women's eyes tend to be much larger. Women have 10,000 more olfactory cells in their noses than men ~ which is why smell is such a big thing to them. A typical man will use between two to three thousand words a day ~ compared to a woman's typical four to six thousand. (Ref: "Why Men Don't Have A Clue, And Women Need A New Pair Of Shoes")

Women are the "gathers" of the "Hunter~Gather" team, so it makes sense that their sense of smell and hearing, and communication is greater than the 'hunter' part of the team.

 

When hunting stealth and being quite is very important. As is observation. Which is why men tend to be such sports enthusiasts. Think about it. Watching a game is very much like a hunter on the hunt, looking here, there and everywhere.

 

Add in Fifth Avenue, advertisting, what a 'man' is suppose to be and not suppose to be, what a woman is 'is' and is suppose to be, commercials, soap operas, TV and movies, pulp fiction romance novels, "Romance" magazine, tabloids, etc ad nausem ~ Is it any wonder we're not all crazy?

 

And if that wasn't the cherry on top of the whipped topping on top of the cake?

 

Throw in a good measure of religion, government, politics, societial and cultural myths, fallacies, and out right lies about what marriage, relationships, bieing a woman, being a man are suppose to be about?

 

Only men can be good figther pilots?

 

Only women can be good nuturing parents?

[Steadfast]

I thank God for the way I was raised. From an early age I was taught and shown what real love is, and never, ever once was I encouraged or led to believe that someone else could be responsible for my actions or mistakes. Or my happiness. This duty was mine alone. And this, more than anything I believe helps one understand that there are consequences to our actions.

 

Still, I have made plenty of mistakes and as much as I'd like them to be, they aren't on my ex-wife. Marriage is the union of two imperfect people.

 

Yes Simon, television and the media massively influence the weak of character. Factor in how this is shared -by the interaction of those similarly effected- and you can begin to understand the rapidly spreading social disease sweeping our population. Is it coincidence that divorce rates are higher where more sophisticated media and its availability exist?

 

A brief example: Many years ago when she was younger (late 20s) my ex was shocked and saddened to the core by her older sister's infidelity and the devastation her divorce caused their children; to the point of moving them in with us to offer them some peace and security. A *real* family's love. Near 40 and after securing a position working with a nearby city works (and it's large workforce) that same wife allowed her 'inner animal' to pursue a sexual relationship with a much younger single man. Her entitled response to the demise of our marriage and family? "These things happen". Once that ran its course it was onto another, and I finished it by filing. Her next phase featured a relationship with a married w/children man ("I'm in love with him") and knowing she was breaking up her second family inside of a year's time said; "I know you're disappointed with me."

 

A profound moment? "I've changed". A massive understatement, wouldn't you say? The dominate emotion -or motive- here was the previously mentioned sense of entitlement, which served to justify putting her and her feelings ahead of all others, even her children. This attitude is repeated everywhere, even here. Where is the faith that promises happiness is earned by giving, not receiving? It's as dead as dial-up.

 

Marriage is hard enough without bringing all this into it. Simon, thank you for posting this very thought-provoking and insightful post. If it allows us to understand the power of truth and helps us train our children to avoid the same pitfalls, then what has happened to many of us isn't a total waste.

[karnak]

karnak: you seem to have a definitive explanation of what "love" is. Could you please elaborate? What is this "real love" that you speak of? Also, are you completely ruling out the fact that marriages can last with hard work? Or are you simply stating that we must all be "soul mates" to whom we live our lives together?

 

The way I understand "real love": to care for another person, in such a way that their happiness is more important that our own happiness.

 

Seems so simple it almost sounds stupid, right?

 

I believe marriages can last with hard work. But those are loveless marriages. Do you have to "work hard" to love someone? I guess not. You just love, that's all. Now, if the person you're with doesn't love you back, that's where the real problem is.

 

The reason every marriage/relationship fails is due to selfishness. A person decides their wishes and well-being are more important than the other person's, so they step out. Mind you, I use "selfishness" not as an insult.

Everyone of us is "selfish" in a way that we live according to our own agendas and priorities. Everyone here must agree that our children's happiness is more important than that of other people's kids.

 

There's no place for selfishness or "ego" in real love.

 

Hope I managed to be clear enough.

[karnak]

 

A brief example: Many years ago when she was younger (late 20s) my ex was shocked and saddened to the core by her older sister's infidelity and the devastation her divorce caused their children; to the point of moving them in with us to offer them some peace and security. A *real* family's love. Near 40 and after securing a position working with a nearby city works (and it's large workforce) that same wife allowed her 'inner animal' to pursue a sexual relationship with a much younger single man. Her entitled response to the demise of our marriage and family? "These things happen". Once that ran its course it was onto another, and I finished it by filing. Her next phase featured a relationship with a married w/children man ("I'm in love with him") and knowing she was breaking up her second family inside of a year's time said; "I know you're disappointed with me."

 

A profound moment? "I've changed". A massive understatement, wouldn't you say? The dominate emotion -or motive- here was the previously mentioned sense of entitlement, which served to justify putting her and her feelings ahead of all others, even her children. This attitude is repeated everywhere, even here. Where is the faith that promises happiness is earned by giving, not receiving? It's as dead as dial-up.

 

 

As I'm growing older, I'm getting more and more convinced that we, humans, are sexually polygamous and emotionally monogamous.

 

All of us, men and women, have the inner desire (perhaps "desire" is not the proper word) to have sex with as many partners as we can.

 

The only thing that prevents us from screwing with other men/women, while in a relationship, is the notion that, in so doing, we will hurt the ones we love the most.

Perhaps that's why, as a marriage begins to deteriorate, the partner who stops loving/caring is the first to begin having sex with other partners.

[overlyConfused]

... All of us, men and women, have the inner desire (perhaps "desire" is not the proper word) to have sex with as many partners as we can.

 

The only thing that prevents us from screwing with other men/women, while in a relationship, is the notion that, in so doing, we will hurt the ones we love the most ...

 

Hey karnak ... I totally see what you are getting at ... and, for the most part, I absolutely agree. Our animalistic nature urges us to spread our seed; however, logic that drives us to not do so is one of the things that separates us from other animals.

[Simon Attwood]

Our animalistic nature urges us to spread our seed; however, logic that drives us to not do so is one of the things that separates us from other animals.

 

occasionally

[karnak]

Hey karnak ... I totally see what you are getting at ... and, for the most part, I absolutely agree. Our animalistic nature urges us to spread our seed; however, logic that drives us to not do so is one of the things that separates us from other animals.

 

Bottom line: If you marry someone, really make sure you are in love and are loved.

Otherwise, you'll inevitably dump or be dumped.

[Steadfast]

 

Bottom line: If you marry someone, really make sure you are in love and are loved. Otherwise, you'll inevitably dump or be dumped.

 

 

Maybe I'm naive, but I've never met anyone who wasn't enthusiastic about their impending marriage. The only possible exception I can think of...was my wife. Throughout our marriage and pertaining to almost every decision, she would over-examine everything and this personality trait granted a constant 'win-win' for her. If things worked out, it was because she'd thought it through completely. If it didn't, she say 'I had my doubts from the beginning'. Often I wonder if she planned an eventual escape from our marriage from the very start, but this is hindsight on my part.

 

To me and in the end, it's all about love. Real love, as described above.

[karnak]

Maybe I'm naive, but I've never met anyone who wasn't enthusiastic about their impending marriage. The only possible exception I can think of...was my wife. Throughout our marriage and pertaining to almost every decision, she would over-examine everything and this personality trait granted a constant 'win-win' for her. If things worked out, it was because she'd thought it through completely. If it didn't, she say 'I had my doubts from the beginning'. Often I wonder if she planned an eventual escape from our marriage from the very start, but this is hindsight on my part.

 

Personally, from what you tell, I think your ex-wife was a very selfish and egocentric woman. It's impossible (or very painful in the long run) to sustain a relationship with such a person.

 

As I stated in an earlier post, I think love is always based on what we give. Not on what we receive.

In marriage (or every sort of human relationship, as matter of fact) when one of the partners is a giving and generous person (in emotional terms), and the other only wants to receive and gives very little in return, it's not a relationship... it's vampirism.

[karnak]

Often I wonder if she planned an eventual escape from our marriage from the very start, but this is hindsight on my part.

 

As stupid as this may seem, I honestly believe that some people really have a "contingency plan" right from the start. I'm not saying it's the case of your wife, as I don't know her.

But I've met many cold-hearted, calculating bastards throughout my life. People who seem to always plan in advance. "Gold-diggers" are good examples of this.

[2.50 a gallon]

I have a lot to say, so this might be just the first post

 

Over Thanksgiving I had the opportunity to talk with a very learned man during a social occasion. When the subject of divorce came up, and that the rate is 50 percent, he corrected the person, and said in truth it is much higher, approaching 70 percent. A quick poll in the room said it was higher, the only none divorced couple in the room, was a newlywed, of only 3 months. The only other none divorced people were all in their 70's and 80's

 

Do you see the age gap? I am in my 60's and was the next oldest there.

 

So what has changed? Part of it is our attitude about marriage. But also the modern world.

 

For every million WAW there are a million stories. One of the common reasons I hear from the BS is "I didn't listen to her"

 

Going back to the beginning, I think that in most marriages there was a kernel of love. We are sexally attracted to them, we woo them, we fall in love and marry them and then we take them for granted.

 

I have had many married women friends in my life, most of whom eventually were divorced. Some of them were WAW. Almost all of them were complaining about the lack of attention they were receiving from the H's. It was like the two of them were sharing a house and kids but living separate lives. They had jobs, and did most of the housekeeping, which they didn't mind. What they did mind was when the H came home, they wanted to talk and share their day with their H. Instead of hearing "How was you day?", they heard "What's for dinner?" They complained that their H never held their hand when they went out shopping. They complained that their H never wanted to go shopping with them. They compained that the H no longer showed them much affection, etc.

 

It was like a little ball of mud on a pigs tail that never gets washed off. Day by day it keeps growing until one day it is too big to drag around.

 

At one place I worked the woman had a girls night out about every other week. The H's were invited and on few occassions did make appearances. In every case the H sat at the table and thought they were being socialable with their W's workers, but not once did I ever see one of them ask their wives to dance. And when their wives hinted that they would like to dance, they encouraged me and others to dance with their wives, and then acted like it was less than manly for a man to dance. You know the rest of the story. They couldn't understand their WAW.

 

Back to the modern world. Their H's would come home eat their dinner and go on their way and then spend their spare time in their own interests. Golf, watching football, computer games, one of them was obssessed with model building, another into a race car.

 

With each one, they tried for years to talk to their H, but there came a tipping point when the ball of mud got too big and there was no going back for them. It was over, the love was gone and there was nothing the H could do.

[sotagoon]

Where is the faith that promises happiness is earned by giving, not receiving? It's as dead as dial-up.

 

This is one of the most stark and true statements I have heard in a while.

 

It is a shame for anyone that is the stronger giver... usually gets run over.

[karnak]

 

For every million WAW there are a million stories. One of the common reasons I hear from the BS is "I didn't listen to her"

 

Going back to the beginning, I think that in most marriages there was a kernel of love. We are sexally attracted to them, we woo them, we fall in love and marry them and then we take them for granted.

 

I have had many married women friends in my life, most of whom eventually were divorced. Some of them were WAW. Almost all of them were complaining about the lack of attention they were receiving from the H's. It was like the two of them were sharing a house and kids but living separate lives. They had jobs, and did most of the housekeeping, which they didn't mind. What they did mind was when the H came home, they wanted to talk and share their day with their H. Instead of hearing "How was you day?", they heard "What's for dinner?" They complained that their H never held their hand when they went out shopping. They complained that their H never wanted to go shopping with them. They compained that the H no longer showed them much affection, etc.

 

At one place I worked the woman had a girls night out about every other week. The H's were invited and on few occassions did make appearances. In every case the H sat at the table and thought they were being socialable with their W's workers, but not once did I ever see one of them ask their wives to dance. And when their wives hinted that they would like to dance, they encouraged me and others to dance with their wives, and then acted like it was less than manly for a man to dance. You know the rest of the story. They couldn't understand their WAW.

 

 

With each one, they tried for years to talk to their H, but there came a tipping point when the ball of mud got too big and there was no going back for them. It was over, the love was gone and there was nothing the H could do.

 

My opinion is different. To be honest I think that the "he doesn't listen to me" line is just another excuse women give to end a relationship. Women are usually more demanding and comunicative than men. Unlike men, women tend to always want more and bigger and are seldom satisfied with what they have.

For us men, love and a shack is just what's needed for things to work. Women, somwhere along the way, will want a bigger shack and a different kind of love.

 

On this forum we find countless stories of men who claimed to have always showered their wives with attention. Only to find out later that their wives were giving their own affection to a different man.

 

My own parents for instance: my mother always claimed that my father never gave her enough attention and never listened to her. Truth was, my mother was a very needy person, and the more attention you'd give her, the more she would want.

Her supposed lack of affection in their marriage made her think about divorce and even about affairs. Yet, in the end, she rejected the ideas, because she claimed she loved my father too much to inflict such a thing upon him. When I told her to leave the marriage and try to find a man who would give her the attention she craved, she dismissed the idea. Why? Because she said she loved my father, despite his communication problems.

 

I personally know many couples who complain of their communication problems (involving the husband or the wife). Yet, they keep and respect their marriage vows, because their affection for the other person is bigger than the trouble it causes in their mind.

 

As I stated earlier, when love is gone in a marriage, every reason is good enough to leave it. I know of a young woman who asked for divorce, claiming that her husband's penis was too short.

Let me guess: in their two year-long pre-marriage dating (probably involving sex, fellatio, whatever) she never had the opportunity to see his dick.

 

Probably many a woman will bash me for what I say in this post. But, hey, I'm a guy. You, as women, have the last say.

[2.50 a gallon]

As far back as I have been able to trace there were no divorces amongst my immediate ancestors.

 

Both sets of my grandparents were able to celebrate their golden anniversary, and the pair on my mothers side went for their 60th.

Even more amazing is that they were farmers, and were together 24/7 for their whole married lives.

 

My parents were a couple of years short of the golden one when dad passed.

 

Each of my granparents raised four kids, and of these one from each side went through the divorce door, or 25 percent.

 

Of my grandparents grandchildern over half of us are divorced (some of them twice) and four of the grandchildren never married. Way over 60 percent divorce rate.

 

Of the great grandchildren, the divorce rate is over 50 percent, half of them are still too young to marry, a couple of them have yet to marry, and two more of them are newly weds.

 

So what has changed? The answer - everything.

 

We have become a me first society. My happiness, my needs, my this, etc.

 

My dad's Birds & Bees conversation had this gem. He was grateful that I loved and respected him as my father. But in a father / son relationship the biggest debt was owned by the father. The minute I was born he owed me, a good family life, a roof over my head, food on the table, medical care, a good education, to be taught right from wrong, etc. And that when I have kids, I owe them the same. So chose your mate carefully

 

But it is no longer that way. We have too many distractions. When I was a kid building models, there were maybe half a dozen kit makers and maybe 50 - 100 different kits. Now I think the number of kit makers is into the hundreds and the number of kits into the thousands. Fathers are not sharing this with their sons, but are pre-occupied with building them for themselves

 

I have a 18 year old great nephew, his dad attended all of his freshmen football games, but never taught him how to throw a football, or a baseball. He never played catch with his kid, he put up a basketball hoop in the back yard but never played hoops with his kid, he never even taught the kid how to fish.

 

His dad was a successful business man, big salary and thought that was enough to take care of his family. When he came home, he spent most of his spare time on the computer, sometimes it was work related, but most times he was gaming and weekends he was off golfing. And he still hasn't figured out why my nephew's mom was a WAW.

 

I have began to wonder if marriage will survive the modern era. Cell phones, Facebook, MySpace, have made it all too easy to cheat. My needs aren't being met, forgetting that the needs of the family come first. All it takes is a phone number or an email address, and all of the wooing and pursuing can be done electronically, before the EA advances to a PA. It is time for me to get a new partner, to hell with the family, life is too short to be mundane.

[karnak]

My opinion why previous generation marriages seem to last longer than today's?

 

Social pressure - Many old couples have lived unfilfilling and unhappy lifes. Yet, as society in their time stated that divorce was a "shame" they were forced to stay in loveless marriages. Yet, their way to cope with the situation was not different than today's.

Many a grandpa out there would sometimes pay a visit to the local brothel, every time the need for sex or affection emerged. And many a grandma would spend some quality time with a "special" neighbour.

 

Greater emotional intelligence - People in the old days used to view life on a different light than the new generations.

They didn't knew the word "stress" (unless when applied to civil engineering) and used to conduct their lives slower and with more caution. A boy and a girl were considered responsible for their lives and their actions as soon as they reached 16. Today, our fast-food world demands that we live according to the acquire-use-discard-acquire new pattern. We also think that we may live up to 100 years and we won't have to suffer the consequences of our actions. Nowadays our teenage years seem to last up till 30.

Older people considered that, once you married, it was for life. So, consciously or unconsciously, they choosed their partners with greater "care" then we do today.

 

In our Social-Networked world, we start a relationship with a person, without almost no info about their background, dreams or deep desires. Believe it or not, the fact that we start to have sex and intimate contact early on a relationship, may cloud our reasoning and judgment about a person, due to the chemicals that are injected in our organism during the physical contact. It's no wonder most relationships begin to grow sour once sex-life becomes stale.

 

Honestly, I don't think human feelings have changed since the first Cro-Magnon walked the Earth. It's society and laws who have changed.

All this increase in divorce rates it's just an expression of the natural inconsistency of human feelings. Men and women will always marry in the hopes of finding their prince/princess charming. Yet, since we're such complex creatures (emotionally and psychologically) we'll always have a hard time finding someone who matches our criteria of physical beauty, sex drive, emotional state, intelligence, economic and social status and even sexual fetish.

 

Pheww... long post:p

[2.50 a gallon]

It is oh so true women like to talk way more than we do, so why not learn to talk with your woman?

 

When my wife and I married we moved a thousand miles away from our home town. AT the time of the break up I found that all of our friend were hers and our friends. In a way I was friendless

 

The women that I worked with had met my wife and were a little jealous of how I had treated her. The noticed that I was quickly losing weight in the separation diet. I soon got the "I brought to much chili for me to eat, would you like some?" over the lunch hour. Naturally they would sit with me and talk. It wasn't long before my lunch hour was spent with several ladies. They were some of my first new friends. Most of them ended up being WAW over the next couple of years.

 

I soon became a sounding board. "Why do men do this or that?" Yes they were starving for attention. Especially in the the bedroom. Lack of sex was the most common complaint. And I can tell you they were all very attractive. Most of them were unhappy in their marriages, were trying to get the H's to notice them, and were wanting their H's into MC. They were all scared of moving out and living alone. That was the only thing keeping them at home

 

I had already met some most of their husbands at the Christmas party. So I knew them. One fancied himself a future Mario Andretti, he had no chance, he was always running at the back of the pack. And no amount of money and the best equipment would have never gotten him to the front.

 

Race cars are a total money pit and he was pouring their future retirement and into a hopeless cause. Her hobby was raising tropical fish. He mockingly called her a guppy raiser. She was far above a guppy raiser and was actually an accomplished acquarist. The fish she was successfully raising were rare, hard to keep alive, even harder to breed and were going extinct. She was not only able to keep them alive, but was also getting enough new fry that she was able to share them with others around the world. To her H they were just guppys, he had no interest in what she was accompishing

 

A second lady was into raising orchids. Again very successful with her interest and was giving most of them away to hospitals and senior centers. She also raised some of the rare and hard to maintain orchids, and had won several awards for them. Her H had never showed up at one of the orchid shows exhibited in. Weekends were for golf.

 

The first WAW was one you would have never suspected. She had met her H in college, he had been her first and only, they were both successful, and very happily married. Their goal was to buy a house, then pay off all of their college loans, build a nest egg and begin having kids. Their goals were met and coming up on their fifth wedding anniversary, they had decided it was now time to begin having kids. The plan was that they would try their best to conceive their first child on the night of their anniversary. They made reservations for an out of town romantic get away. Two days before the weekend the H informed her his buddy had heard that there was to be a poker tournament in Vegas (poker tournaments were in their infancy). He canceled their plans and went to Vegas with his buddy. He came back to an empty house.

 

She came back to work on Monday and told the flock "bigger was better" and the other dominos began to fall

[2.50 a gallon]

Society changed.

 

Both of my farmer grand parents made a weekly trip to town, to do their shopping and pickup supplies. My one grandfather after settling up with the egg and milk man headed to the saloon. There he had one cold one, and sat down to play pinochole and BS. Grandma when finished with her shopping would go down to the saloon, and ask somebody going in to tell grandpa she was ready to go home. She never went in. Women did not go into saloons.

 

I was in the front wave of the baby boomers and got to watch society change.

 

The first was the BC pill and Mr. Hefner had a series of articles on sex in Playboy, that promoted the idea what women should also explore their sexuality. The sexual revolution was on.

 

I graduated from HS in the mid 60's, and my sister a few years later. Upon graduation my future was unlimited. Not so my sister, her role was to be a house wife, teacher, secretary, nurse. A female doctor was rare. A female in the police force, was restricted to a desk job and working with female detainees.

 

My sister did not have the option to be a pilot, truck driver, railroad engineer or you name. But her daughters did.

 

That is it in the nutshell

[Simon Attwood]

I soon became a sounding board. "Why do men do this or that?"

 

Did you reply "why do women do this or that?"

 

Yes they were starving for attention. Especially in the the bedroom. Lack of sex was the most common complaint. And I can tell you they were all very attractive. Most of them were unhappy in their marriages, were trying to get the H's to notice them, and were wanting their H's into MC.

 

see my earlier posts on "sexual value" games.

 

Women withold intimacy as a means of getting more attention and raise their sexual value. The thinking (if you can call it that) is that; the harder the man will work for it, the greater my value is to him. this is actually driven by a low core value in themselves.

 

Subsequently, the male is getting subconscious signals of "Keep your distance physically and emotionally". The female is actually pushing the male away which is totally counterproductive to her aims. Sexual value games nearly always backfire.

 

Because the female's motive for her behaviour is unconscious, she is not aware that she is manipulating the male and pushing him away emotionally and physically. So she blames it on him and says he doesn't pay her enough attention.

[EcstasyX6]

I still can't seem to do the cut and paste quote thing.

 

you'd think we'd have learned something about ourselves by now?..

 

I came across this site while looking up "Walk Away Wife Syndrome", and was going to reply to a thread but it wouldn't let me because the thread was too old.

 

"Walk Away Wife Syndrome" means nothing. It's just words and only has the meaning that we give it and each person will give it a meaning that fits their circumstance. It's a concept, a label, that vastly oversimplifies a multiplicity of very complex situations.

 

I've read some articles on the subject that suggest it is due to a man not understanding or acknowledging signals from the wife that he needs to change;

 

1. what right does an adult have to expect another adult to change?

We all enter relationships with some sort of expectations. If not, what's the point? You'd be fine on your own.

 

2. what should they change in to except an image of perfection that someone holds in their fantasy riddled heads?

I can't speak for other women, but my 'fantasy' was to have my man lead the household, you know, do the manly stuff, help me on weekends as other men I saw were doing, and take his children out occasionally (give me a break), and maintain some semblance of the fit man I met. I was sexy to him, he should be to me as well. I never asked for perfection. Just a partner who would get off the couch and computer and pay me some attention at home. I suppose I should have taken my 'lump' as he was, and never expected him to engage.

 

3. Do all women who project their inner turmoil upon their relationships read celebrity gossip mags or watch celebrity gossip TV to feed their inner sense of core emptiness? I don't.

 

Essentially these women are being dictated to by their phylogenetically primitive inheritance, their inner animal, and their need to flee a situation that is psychically perceived as a threat to their identity. Their projections of inner conflicts upon their relationships are mere rationalisations in order to fit in with and aid their animal drives.

Yes, I am a sexual human. Marriage is supposed to satisfy the 'animal drive' of both sexes. That was my expectation. I always thought men wanted sex more?:confused:

 

Any adult, male or female, that feels the need to impose an image upon a person, of what they expect that person to be, is suffering from a deeply narcissistic state and is unable to see their partner as a person, but rather a toy or play thing to mould and shape. It is this perception and perspective that enables them to inflict pain and suffering upon their partner and inhibits any sense of empathy with what their partner may be feeling.

Hmmm. So, a person is narcissistic for wanting an involved partner, then I guess I'm narcissistic? If a person is truly empathic and selfless, he or she would never ask for a divorce or cheat on their spouse. I think total self absorption and selfishness allows one to cheat.

 

There's too much pain and suffering on this site and it makes me angry at the ignorance of people that simply do not know themselves, nor want to know themselves, because deep down inside, they don't actually like themselves very much and they would prefer to project their dislike of themselves on to their partners.

I submit, I didn't know myself in my twenties, and made a mistake by marrying my husband. No. I didn't love him as I should have. I like myself, but now some of the things I did in life, but I'm still growing and learning,and expect to do so until I die.

 

People make mistakes, and lawmakers have made much easier and socially acceptable to leave a marriage, and 'fix' those mistakes, instead of stay til death due them part. If we lived in certain other countries, where it was practically and socially unacceptable, we'd all be forced to 'make it work'.

 

We are weak, fragile, vulnerable and imperfect. Embrace it people!

Amen!

 

 

Sorry for the bold, but this quote thing doesn't work for me. Maybe it's my browser.