Why don't more OW/OM demand respect?

[her_halo_slipped]

I think it depends on what you want and what your expectations are in the relationship. I believe that the relationship I have as the OW to a MM is a true and honest relationship between the two of us. I have no desire to issue an ultimatum because I understand and understood the terms of our relationship when I entered it. He has never lied to me nor have I lied to him. I do not see him as the "cake eater" if anything we are both enjoying the cake. I have what I want in this relationship as does he. We love and respect each other and we have time together that is just ours. We take vacations together, party together or sometimes he will just cook for me and we will spend an evening together. I want for nothing emotionally in my A with this MM.

 

I accept less than being the only woman because that is the reality of the situation that I entered into and also because I am able to seperate my life with him from his life with his wife. I do not compare anything because I have no need to.

 

I think this is a fantastic post. I can so understand what you mean. It is refreshing to know someone else on LS feels this way and doesn't feel the need to make constant comparisons or issue less than gratifying ultimatums.

[atlnay]

I think it depends on what you want and what your expectations are in the relationship.

 

This is so very key.

[NoIDidn't]

What I mean is, if the OW/OM really wants a true honest relationship with the cheater, why don't they stand up and say "Me or Her/Him"? Why don't more give an ultimatum? Why do we allow the cheater to be a cake eater? Why do we accept his/her indecision?

 

I can only say for myself that I shouldn't gotten involved with a MM, even though he was living on his own. I should have demanded more; I should have respected myself more. After he returned home, to his wife, and continued the Affair, I should have not accepted that. I wish I could turn back the hands of time and slap myself in the head

 

So why did you/do you accept less than being the only person? Why do you accept sharing?

 

I haven't read all of the responses, but with the exception of someone like OWoman that isn't looking for an exclusive relationship or that doesn't know that he's married, I think its because they mistakenly believe there to be something to the fact that *they* caught his eye.

 

Like it was a chance happening and that demanding more from someone his *his position* would ruin that slim chance that they can end up with him exclusively.

 

Basically, its a waiting for the planets and stars to be perfectly aligned while staying in proximity so that when *it* does happen, they'll be there to get what they have been waiting for.

 

My two cents.

[jennie-jennie]

Like it was a chance happening and that demanding more from someone his *his position* would ruin that slim chance that they can end up with him exclusively.

 

To give an ultimatum you have to be able to follow up on it, otherwise it does you more harm than good. This is not about "ruining that slim chance", it is about knowing yourself well enough to know that you are going to stay whatever he chooses.

[NoIDidn't]

To give an ultimatum you have to be able to follow up on it, otherwise it does you more harm than good. This is not about "ruining that slim chance", it is about knowing yourself well enough to know that you are going to stay whatever he chooses.

 

So basically OW/OM don't demand respect from their MPs because they are too afraid that it will end the relationship.

 

That doesn't have anything to do with "knowing yourself", it has everything to do with being afraid of being without them should you do or say the wrong thing.

 

This is the reason that the MP has all the power in the relationship. It is given to them by a person too afraid to exercise their rights in a relationship.

 

Considering the MPs get all this with very minimal effort, it really makes one wonder why more don't leave their marriages for this setup.

[jennie-jennie]

So basically OW/OM don't demand respect from their MPs because they are too afraid that it will end the relationship.

 

That doesn't have anything to do with "knowing yourself", it has everything to do with being afraid of being without them should you do or say the wrong thing.

 

This is the reason that the MP has all the power in the relationship. It is given to them by a person too afraid to exercise their rights in a relationship.

 

Considering the MPs get all this with very minimal effort, it really makes one wonder why more don't leave their marriages for this setup.

 

Huh, did this post of yours have anything to do with anything I said? I wasn't talking about demanding respect from the MP, I was talking about giving an ultimatum.

 

What use is it giving an ultimatum if you don't mean what you are saying? "You have to choose between me or her, but if you still can't, I will still stay in the affair, because I can't picture life without you."

 

If the MM is not ready to choose before the ultimatum, he won't be after, just like the OW who is not ready to choose to leave the affair before the ultimatum, will not be afterwards either.

 

Concerning respect, I always demand respect from my MM, and I get it.

[HappyAtLast]

My other woman commanded respect. There was no doubt in my mind that if I did not take the steps to divorce my then-wife she would be long gone.

 

I agree with NID in this situation that the power in these types of relationships should not all be handed over to the married person. I was very committed to respecting my affair partner by not keeping her my affair partner.

[donnamaybe]

Concerning respect, I always demand respect from my MM, and I get it.

 

But you already said you would rather have him for yourself instead of share him, and he refuses to give you that. How is that respect?

[jennie-jennie]

So basically OW/OM don't demand respect from their MPs because they are too afraid that it will end the relationship.

 

That doesn't have anything to do with "knowing yourself", it has everything to do with being afraid of being without them should you do or say the wrong thing.

 

This is the reason that the MP has all the power in the relationship. It is given to them by a person too afraid to exercise their rights in a relationship.

 

Considering the MPs get all this with very minimal effort, it really makes one wonder why more don't leave their marriages for this setup.

 

I want to add that I am in no way afraid of my MM ending our relationship because of something I do or say. We are way past that. Our relationship has been going on for 4 years and the bond between us just keeps getting stronger and stronger.

 

But you can't force another person to get a divorce. They have to be ready to do it.

[jennie-jennie]

But you already said you would rather have him for yourself instead of share him, and he refuses to give you that. How is that respect?

 

He knows what I want. I respect that he is not ready yet to get a divorce. I hope that one day he will be, I see him moving closer to it all the time, although I am not kidding myself, I know he may very well never get there.

 

In the meantime I enjoy our relationship as it is. He treats me with respect, I treat him with respect. Him being married is a formality in my opinion, it does not have any bearing on our relationship, other than that it limits our time together.

[donnamaybe]

I want to add that I am in no way afraid of my MM ending our relationship because of something I do or say. We are way past that. Our relationship has been going on for 4 years and the bond between us just keeps getting stronger and stronger.

 

But you can't force another person to get a divorce. They have to be ready to do it.

 

FOUR YEARS?!!! My take on this is that he will never be ready. Why bother getting a divorce when he can have his W at home and an OW when he feels like having variety who allows him to drag the A out for FOUR YEARS?

 

That makes me kinda sad.

[jennie-jennie]

FOUR YEARS?!!! My take on this is that he will never be ready. Why bother getting a divorce when he can have his W at home and an OW when he feels like having variety who allows him to drag the A out for FOUR YEARS?

 

That makes me kinda sad.

 

No need to be sad. I am not. I have seen him make major changes within himself during our time together. If our relationship would end today, he would be a different and better person than he was when we met, just like I would. He has mattered in my life and I have in his. Through relationships we continue our life journey finding out who we really are.

[moaningmyrtle]

Huh, did this post of yours have anything to do with anything I said? I wasn't talking about demanding respect from the MP, I was talking about giving an ultimatum...

 

QUOTE]

 

Oh for goodness sake Jennie - you seem to have overlooked the title of this thread which was all about demanding respect.

 

Why attack someone for apparently misunderstanding what you were saying then?

Edited December 22, 2009 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[jennie-jennie]

What I mean is, if the OW/OM really wants a true honest relationship with the cheater, why don't they stand up and say "Me or Her/Him"? Why don't more give an ultimatum? Why do we allow the cheater to be a cake eater? Why do we accept his/her indecision?

 

I can only say for myself that I shouldn't gotten involved with a MM, even though he was living on his own. I should have demanded more; I should have respected myself more. After he returned home, to his wife, and continued the Affair, I should have not accepted that. I wish I could turn back the hands of time and slap myself in the head

 

So why did you/do you accept less than being the only person? Why do you accept sharing?

 

 

Oh for goodness sake Jennie - you must be one of the most disingenuous posters on this forum. You seem to have overlooked the title of this thread which was all about demanding respect.

 

Why attack someone for apparently misunderstanding what you were saying then?

 

Moaningmyrtle, something must be very off with your perception of me. If it is something I am not, it is disingenuous.

 

Please take a look at the bolded part of FO's post where she explains what she means with the thread title. I was responding to what she said about an ultimatum, which in my opinion has nothing to do with respect.

 

Also in no way was I attacking NID. She quoted my post, which made me take her post as a reply to my post, which made me confounded.

Edited December 21, 2009 by jennie-jennie

[moaningmyrtle]

Moaningmyrtle, something must be very off with your perception of me. ....

 

Perhaps, perhaps not - either way, sorry for the rant.

[NoIDidn't]

Also in no way was I attacking NID. She quoted my post, which made me take her post as a reply to my post, which made me confounded.

 

I didn't feel attacked in your response. Not at all.

 

But you quoted me first, to be correct. So I responded based on the fact that you quoted me.

 

 

But I was a little confused as to why you quoted what you did of mine and spoke of "ultimatims". I guess I should read the OP a little better myself!

[hoping2heal]

What I mean is, if the OW/OM really wants a true honest relationship with the cheater, why don't they stand up and say "Me or Her/Him"? Why don't more give an ultimatum? Why do we allow the cheater to be a cake eater? Why do we accept his/her indecision?

 

IMHO, Many affairs are based in a level of denial for both people. In a literal fantasy. For an OW/OM to demand "him/her or ME" MANY affairs would come to an end or not start to begin with. The MM/MW aren't often looking for a real relationship, they are seeking out a fantastical refuge. If YOU don't want to play along or won't, so be it. There is always someone else who WILL. I think deep down the AP's know that and don't want to risk ruining the "fantasy". So, WHY don't OM/OW demand more "respect"? Because they won't get it and when they don't, the fantasy for THEM is ALSO over. They are no longer the passionate love their OW/OM can't live without, there is no longer a great and doting, adoring love. They aren't the end all/ be all love affair to another person's existence. That fantasy is blown for them when they realise they are just number two and a well kept lie, and they aren't going to know their MM/MW's friends and family or be a part of a life together.

[NoIDidn't]

My other woman commanded respect. There was no doubt in my mind that if I did not take the steps to divorce my then-wife she would be long gone.

 

I agree with NID in this situation that the power in these types of relationships should not all be handed over to the married person. I was very committed to respecting my affair partner by not keeping her my affair partner.

 

And its actually not that hard for an OP to keep some of the power in these relationships. But too many give it away when they are willing to stay the OP for an extended period of time.

 

An affair that goes on for a long time just makes people think that you have given up having exclusivity (for those that want it), and that you are settling for a piece instead of the whole person.

[wheelwright]

, They aren't the end all/ be all love affair to another person's existence. That fantasy is blown for them when they realise they are just number two and a well kept lie, and they aren't going to know their MM/MW's friends and family or be a part of a life together.

 

Well I guess I am the exception that proves your rule. Because i have been to hell and not quite back, and it still doesn't feel like a fantasy. The life i imagined for us was, but the feelings not so.

 

This love affair was the one to change my entire existence. Maybe not for my MOM. But it sure was for me. Nothing about whether I was one or two. My feelings were enough. I experienced nothing like it, and I know I never will again.

[BED OF ROSES]

I guess I do not understand what the orignal poster means when referring to "respect". I feel completely respected because I have what I want out of my A with my MM. He does not violate any boundaries nor does he put any expectations on me or my time that I am not comfortable with. I afford him the same respect.

 

I am confused by the idea of how demanding that the MM get a divorce somehow equates to being respected. You are having an Affair! By its very nature what you have entered into is at the very least an agreement to be with a person with the full knowledge that the person has a spouse....why then would one decide that it is "disrespectful" for the MM to continue to be married? If his being married and being in a relationship with you is disrespectful why did you ever decide to engage in an affair in the first place?

 

By your definition it would seem you are the one disrespecting yourself if this is the litmus test by which you measure the MM respect for you.

 

I must say I am thoroughly confused.....

[fooled once]

Bed,

 

I didn't mean to confuse you or anyone else.

 

I see so many posts on here about women waiting and waiting and hoping and waiting for the MM to leave his spouse.

 

There are some women who are okay with sharing him. Lizzie for example has no desire to have a monogamous relationship. She likes variety LOL

 

But for the OW who dream about it being just him and her .... they want it, but they are too scared to demand that he 'pick'. They don't want to upset the apple cart. So they sit and wait. They have posted how they want him to leave her, how they want a 'real' relationship with him. They want to be the MAIN and ONLY woman in his life. They want to meet his kids, they want to be with him on holidays.

 

That is the ones I am speaking towards -- those women/men who want the relationship and want to stop being the "other" person.

 

If you are in an affair and have no desire to be the MAIN woman, that's great.

 

I always think of GEL when I think of demanding respect. She told her man to make a choice and until he did, to basically lose her number.

 

THAT is what I am asking --- why don't more, who WANT that, tell these married men/women to respect them and stop disrespecting them by having them be a 'side' piece.

 

Does that explain it more?

 

Hoping2heal

IMHO, Many affairs are based in a level of denial for both people. In a literal fantasy. For an OW/OM to demand "him/her or ME" MANY affairs would come to an end or not start to begin with. The MM/MW aren't often looking for a real relationship, they are seeking out a fantastical refuge. If YOU don't want to play along or won't, so be it. There is always someone else who WILL. I think deep down the AP's know that and don't want to risk ruining the "fantasy". So, WHY don't OM/OW demand more "respect"? Because they won't get it and when they don't, the fantasy for THEM is ALSO over. They are no longer the passionate love their OW/OM can't live without, there is no longer a great and doting, adoring love. They aren't the end all/ be all love affair to another person's existence. That fantasy is blown for them when they realise they are just number two and a well kept lie, and they aren't going to know their MM/MW's friends and family or be a part of a life together.

 

I wholeheartedly agree!

[fooled once]

AND.....

 

Fallen *hug*

 

One day honey, if you let yourself, you will find someone who DOES love you like you want/need to be loved. But you won't find that person while you are entangled with MM. *hug*

[moaningmyrtle]

I guess I do not understand what the orignal poster means when referring to "respect". I feel completely respected because I have what I want out of my A with my MM. He does not violate any boundaries nor does he put any expectations on me or my time that I am not comfortable with. I afford him the same respect.

 

I am confused by the idea of how demanding that the MM get a divorce somehow equates to being respected. You are having an Affair! By its very nature what you have entered into is at the very least an agreement to be with a person with the full knowledge that the person has a spouse....why then would one decide that it is "disrespectful" for the MM to continue to be married? If his being married and being in a relationship with you is disrespectful why did you ever decide to engage in an affair in the first place?

 

By your definition it would seem you are the one disrespecting yourself if this is the litmus test by which you measure the MM respect for you.

 

I must say I am thoroughly confused.....

 

There are a few OW on this forum a bit like yourself who do not want their MM to leave their wives. They are happy with what they have and it is what they signed up for. Some that spring to mind include OW with her former MMs (not the one she married), Skylarblue and Lizzie who I gather is a sex worker (sorry Lizzie I don't know the correct term to use that acknowledges the reality of what you do without being offensive).

 

I didn't really think the original question was addressed to these types of OW but rather the ones who have become OW either through no fault of their own (ie the MM lied about being married or returned to his wife) or those that entered an A full knowing what it was but it evolved into something where promises were made for a (exclusive?) future together. The former have my sympathy the latter have less (from me at any rate) although I well understand their pain.

 

I know of so many couples with children that have split up. This includes many good fathers who continue to have good ongoing relationships with their children so I simply don't buy the "staying together for the sake of the kids" rationale. MM stay with their wives because they want to. It's true that breaking up the family is devastating and destabilizing for children but I can tell you the revelation of a father's A is too. My sons are teenaged (as was my H when his own father had an A) and they were severely distressed by the revelation of the A and I suspect that had we broken up their distress in the following year would have been little different to the distress they experienced anyway as we tried to repair what was broken.

 

The idea that a BW is in position to force NC with the OW is ludicrous to me. Either the MM will go NC as a way of saving his marriage if it is important to him or he will pretend to go NC in which case I would assume his marriage is not so important to him as he is telling his BW. My guess is that such a man doesn't really want to be with the OW full time either.

 

When I discovered my H's infidelity I knew virtually nothing of infidelity and the various ways of dealing with it. My H actually knew more than me - and looking back perhaps he always knew of NC as a concept. I certainly didn't. I just knew that if he was going to continue with her in any way shape or form, then he had to leave me as I didn't want to be married to him any more. To be honest I did want to remain married to him but decided that I couldn't for the sake of my own self respect and my children's well being. I believe I would have been strong enough to end our marriage had he not ended it with the OW.

 

As to why she was not able to ask him to make a choice, I'm guessing it's because deep down she knew that the choice would not be her. I don't know whether or not this is linked to her own level of self respect or not - again it's interesting that the concept of self-respect has been linked to the giving of an ultimatum on this thread. Are they necessarily linked do you think?

 

At the time I honestly had no idea which he would choose but I suspected it wouldn't be me - after all I had read the e-mails between them and it was obvious to me it was a "love affair".

[jennie-jennie]

I guess I do not understand what the orignal poster means when referring to "respect". I feel completely respected because I have what I want out of my A with my MM. He does not violate any boundaries nor does he put any expectations on me or my time that I am not comfortable with. I afford him the same respect.

 

I am confused by the idea of how demanding that the MM get a divorce somehow equates to being respected. You are having an Affair! By its very nature what you have entered into is at the very least an agreement to be with a person with the full knowledge that the person has a spouse....why then would one decide that it is "disrespectful" for the MM to continue to be married? If his being married and being in a relationship with you is disrespectful why did you ever decide to engage in an affair in the first place?

 

By your definition it would seem you are the one disrespecting yourself if this is the litmus test by which you measure the MM respect for you.

 

I must say I am thoroughly confused.....

 

Very well said! I totally agree.

[hoping2heal]

Well I guess I am the exception that proves your rule. Because i have been to hell and not quite back, and it still doesn't feel like a fantasy. The life i imagined for us was, but the feelings not so.

 

This love affair was the one to change my entire existence. Maybe not for my MOM. But it sure was for me. Nothing about whether I was one or two. My feelings were enough. I experienced nothing like it, and I know I never will again.

 

If you notice I said "many". However, I was talking about how the people that MM/MW have affairs with come to realise they aren't their MM/MW end all/be all passionate love. If you were, the MM/MW would leave their marriage to comitt to you and make an open life with you- I wasn't saying that the OW/OM don't fall hard and aren't deeply touched (and sadly, usually deeply wounded also) by the affairs.