WW talked about OM

[Blindsidedagainalive]

2 years since dday.

WW told me it 'wasnt about the sex', although she ****ed him 12 times in the park and twice at his house.

 

Most of their once a week meetings included sex.

 

HERE IS WHAT SHE TOLD ME about the OM

 

1. he had bad breath and chewed gum a lot to conceal it

2. often had Body odor

3. he was a profuse sweater

4. he had a very small penis

5. he seemed like a novice at sex...like he didn't know what he was doing (although he was 53 and having sex for 30 years).

 

6. he didn't like oral sex

7. he was very passive

8. he was unable to perform on a few occasions

9. she didn't want sex, she wanted the feeling of being wanted

10. she got the sex over with to keep the affair going

11. doused himself with baby powder

12. wore tight shirts tucked into his pants...which were floods

13. he walked funny looking at the ground. with his body lurched forward

14. wore 20 year old capezios (for those who remember)

15. he seemed naive and uneducated

 

Can this be true?

Why wouldn't she avoid sex if this was the case?

This does not like somebody ANYONE would want to ****.

 

She could have said on a few occasions 'i got my period'. That wouldn't have pushed him away, and she'd be able to avoid the sex.

 

If I wanted to avoid sex with a woman that I liked, I would meet her in a coffee shop, or a place that we couldn't have sex.

[Hazyhead]

That affair CLEARLY wasn't about the sex! God! It sounds to me like she might have an issue with low self-esteem since she would just go through with it 'to get it over with' - she mustn't have felt stong enough to say no. There was probably a large part of her that did it just to please him - again that may come down to low self-esteem.

 

I would ask how you are so sure that it is the truth, but the details are so specific and large in number that they would have to be, otherwise how on earth could you keep up that lie?

[Blindsidedagainalive]

HAZY- Yes, she does have low self esteem.

 

"she mustn't have felt stong enough to say no"

 

Okay, but why wouldnt she try to cultivate the emotional aspect of the affair. It's easy to avoid sex...."i have a headache, my period".

 

I am not a woman .... perhaps the thinking is different.

 

This is why I appreciate a womans perspective on this matter.

[Hazyhead]

The fact that she didn't refuse sex highlights how low her self-esteem was. She allowed him to make the choice for her. It sounds like, despite whatever emotional connection they had, he might have been quite controlling in the affair. Maybe there was a part of her that liked to be dominated and needed like that so she succumbed?

 

Me? I would refuse sex for sure if I didn't enjoy it.

[NowhereToHide]

It is really hard for men to grasp the concept that some people enter into affairs for reasons OTHER than sex. It happens a lot. I know... men will come on here and say that it's ALWAYS about the sex. It's not.

 

Sex with my xAP sucked. Big time. And he wasn't all that great of a person. He could be judgemental, annoying and he was a huge geek.

 

.... BUT...... he adored me. He thought I was the perfect woman. He couldn't get enough of me. He told me constantly how beautiful, smart, witty I was. These are things that I NEVER get from my H anymore. I was starving for a connection, for attention, for love. And my xAP gave it to me in spades.

 

I now know from therapy WHY I was so hungry for his attention. And I will tell you that I would have kept going with the bad sex to get the other stuff, too. I was so desperate for the love. And don't discount the fact that even if the sex was bad, there still is an emotional connection during the act -- holding each other, looking into each other's eyes, passion -- whether or not I had an orgasm was secondary. I wanted the connection.

 

I know it's hard for you to make sense of that description she gave you. Of course you are wondering how she could have given up you for him. Just know that it doesn't have anything to do with how he looks or what he can do in bed. It has everything to do with how he made her FEEL. And from the description of him, he must have made her feel amazing!

[Blindsidedagainalive]

Yes, WW said that he was a huge geek, and would seek attention doing very silly things.

 

WW's dad had a stroke, her brother was very ill when OM approached her at work.

 

Yes, as you said he paid her compliments. Most men do when they want to get laid. And....regretfully, we often stop as the years go by.

 

I doubt the OM was flattering his wife.

 

Anyway, WW said that she felt superior to OM and felt inferior to me.

 

She said this made her feel like she had CONTROL.

[NowhereToHide]

Blindsided.... I can relate to all of this.

 

My H is a far better man than my xAP. I look back on my A and can't believe I ever fell for him. Objectively, he is so not worth my time. And I guess I probably felt superior to him on some level, and I definitely feel inferior to my H. Just one more of the f*cked up dynamic of why some people have affairs.

 

I'm sorry that you are going through all of this. My H doesn't know about my A, and I know it would crush him if he did.

 

Are you and your W divorced now or are you trying to make things work?

[Blindsidedagainalive]

2 years since dday.

 

I discovered it....

Had no idea...didn't even know we were having problems.

 

You seem to be one of the VERY few whose dynamic matched my WW.s

 

I wish we could speak as I think you would be a great help in me processing this.

 

We are in limbo.

[NowhereToHide]

2 years since dday.

 

I discovered it....

Had no idea...didn't even know we were having problems.

 

You seem to be one of the VERY few whose dynamic matched my WW.s

 

I wish we could speak as I think you would be a great help in me processing this.

 

We are in limbo.

 

Blindsided.... feel free to PM me anytime. I would be happy to help in anyway I can.

[Spark1111]

Blindsided, many people affair "down" as a way to feel superior in one aspect of their lives.

 

If they have always felt they married "up" or better than themselves, it is one more thing they beat themselves up about, regardless of how well you may treat them.

 

I know. I recently went through a phone call with the OW, who my imagination had assumed was someone like me.

 

She was nothing like me at all. It was a shocker to learn that.

 

Then the hard part was getting past, "you sacrificed our lives, our love, our children's happiness for THAT PERSON?????????"

 

She made him feel special when everyone else thought he was an angry, depressed lunatic.

 

It worked.

[Bryanp]

There is no doubt that your wife has low self-esteem but I agree with you that she easily could have said she was on her period and had a yeast infection. I would doubt most of what she said that you listed. I would suggest more than likely that she is engaging in damage control and saying all of these things that would not damage your self esteem any more than it is. The list that she provided you is simply unbelievable and I think you know this also deep down.

[jnj express]

Do you know for sure all these things are true about OM. Don't forget your wife knows how to lie, cheat, decieve, and manipulate very well, she did it to you for how long??????

[Blindsidedagainalive]

JNJ - No I don't know these things. Although wearing capezio's is quite a creative touch if she is lying -lol. Definately not getting close enough to smell him.

 

Cobalt - Perhaps. She didn't only tell me these bad things however. She did tell me that he had nice blue eyes.

[seibert253]

Can't for the life of me understand why so many "affair down". I'm a former competitive powerlifter/bodybuilder, good steady job (LE officer for 19 years), good father, and worshiped the ground my wife walked on.

Her FAP is 40lbs overweight, 2 inches shorter than her, and just smells bad.

 

Read about others who's partner's also "affaired down". Just don't understand it.

[Blindsidedagainalive]

You have have pointed out something huge.

Your WW may have felt inferior to you, but she felt superior to the OM.

 

Same here....

[JamesM]

With all due respect, she is telling you what you want to hear because she has (if I read correctly) chosen to stay with you. I doubt you would want to hear that the sex was good or that he was skilled. I know I would not.

 

I am going to quote jwi71 from another thread of yours....

The easiest lies to tell are the unverifiable ones.

You can't verify his size.

You can't verify how many times.

You can't verify how enjoyable it was.

 

All you can do is believe her...or not. Your choice.

 

I agree...it is your choice. So far you have chosen to proceed with this relationship despite having been cheated on...twice (I think).

 

Remember...she freely chose to have an affair with him. In fact, if he is as she said he was, he probably was more of a victim. It doesn't sound like he had any charm or looks or sex appeal. He was simply someone who made her feel special. It could have been any guy who would have done that. She chose an affair as a way to cry out for help in her marriage. She wanted change but felt helpless at how to get it. She chose an awful way, but it did get results.

 

As for feeling inferior to you, if this is true, then this needs to be equaled out. My guess is that it is slightly different. She probably felt that she had control or power over him as he showed that she was his world. She knew that she could manipulate him as she needed for her own emotional fulfillment.

 

Affairs happen many times because there is a lack of something in the marriage. And the affair fills that void.

 

Your goal as a couple is to discover what that void was and begin to repair it. This will be the best and probably only way that your marriage can be rebuilt.

 

Does she feel a lack of power or control or equality in your marriage? Does she miss the admiration and respect? It may not mean you do not feel it for her or try to express it to her. It may mean that she doesn't receive it.

 

From what I read, these past two years have been a stalemate. My question is...are you sure you want to keep going on like this?

Edited December 21, 2009 by JamesM

[atlnay]

Can't for the life of me understand why so many "affair down".

 

Read about others who's partner's also "affaired down". Just don't understand it.

 

Because in some cases it has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the current SO looks as much as how the other person makes them FEEL.

 

Someone cheated on Halle Berry.

 

Good lucks & physique go a long way but personality & connection are the keepers.

[Spark1111]

Some cheat because something was sorely missing in the marriage. Both partners would feel that, though both partners may not cheat.

 

Sometime cheating is a symptom of something LACKING IN THE CHEATER, and had absolutely NOTHING to do with the BS.

 

Remember that....

[JamesM]

Because in some cases it has absolutely NOTHING to do with how the current SO looks as much as how the other person makes them FEEL.

 

So true. Marriage is a two way street. And while it does not give the cheater justification for his or her actions, it may give a reason. Adults understand that in marriages it is not all about how we feel but about how deep our commitment is.

 

Some cheat because something was sorely missing in the marriage. Both partners would feel that, though both partners may not cheat.

 

Both may NOT feel it as a matter of fact. If I did not take the time to listen to my wife, then eventually she will feel as if I do not care. Yet I could easily feel as if my marriage is perfect. And when my wife tells me over and over that I need to listen to her feelings and I dismiss her, then she will find something lacking, and I will not.

 

But when we both feel a void in our marriage and if we do not take the time to resolve it, one partner may choose work as his mistress and the other may choose another person. One may wait for the other to solve the problem, and this may cause the other one to cheat. One may out of anger choose an affair without even trying to fix the marriage.

 

And then of course, we cannot forget those who enjoy cheating because of the feelings it gives them despite how good or bad the state of their marriage is. Some people (and usually it is guys) enjoy the secrecy of affairs and the thrill of clandestine rendezvous, or they may enjoy the variety from many women. I am not speaking of such individuals.

 

Affairs cannot be justified, but they can be understood. And IMO this is very important if the one who was betrayed wants to move on and find someone else.

 

Continually looking at it as if it is only the fault of the cheater will be detrimental to the one who was betrayed.

 

Sometime cheating is a symptom of something LACKING IN THE CHEATER, and had absolutely NOTHING to do with the BS.

 

Remember that....

 

I agree...sometimes this is true. However, many times it comes down to more the state of the marriage than the state of the person who cheated.

 

It makes me angry inside, too, when I read of someone who could betray their vows over something that could have been easily solved through communication and commitment. Having been there (and am still there), I know that cheating is a decision. I could choose cheating or I can choose solutions.

 

My point is that staying angry at the cheater solves nothing. And while the anger is very difficult to overcome, it is a must if the betrayed spouse wants to move on and either fix the current marriage or find another person.

 

Blindsided, after two years of this state of limbo, IMO it is important to decide which direction is best for you and not her. Is it best for you to fix this relationship or is it best for you to move on? CAN this relationship be fixed? Do you both want it, or are you hanging on for other reasons?

 

I sense much pain and much indecision. Deciding what you want to do will help you immensely, I believe.

[Blindsidedagainalive]

With all due respect, she is telling you what you want to hear because she has (if I read correctly) chosen to stay with you. I doubt you would want to hear that the sex was good or that he was skilled. I know I would not.

 

I am going to quote jwi71 from another thread of yours....

 

Quote:

The easiest lies to tell are the unverifiable ones.

You can't verify his size.

You can't verify how many times.

You can't verify how enjoyable it was.

 

All you can do is believe her...or not. Your choice.

I agree...it is your choice. So far you have chosen to proceed with this relationship despite having been cheated on...twice (I think).

 

Most affair facts or opinions are not verifiable. ie- WW/WH can say that they never went out to dinner, hotel. How could we prove this did not occur? Cash leaves no trail.

Betrayed spouses can seldom truly verify anything...including the sex acts.

 

Remember...she freely chose to have an affair with him. In fact, if he is as she said he was, he probably was more of a victim.

 

I learned that he cheated on both his first and second wife...hard to imagine him (15 years older, manager) as a victim.

 

It doesn't sound like he had any charm or looks or sex appeal. He was simply someone who made her feel special. It could have been any guy who would have done that. She chose an affair as a way to cry out for help in her marriage. She wanted change but felt helpless at how to get it. She chose an awful way, but it did get results.

 

Yes, very poor results.

 

As for feeling inferior to you, if this is true, then this needs to be equaled out. My guess is that it is slightly different. She probably felt that she had control or power over him as he showed that she was his world. She knew that she could manipulate him as she needed for her own emotional fulfillment.

 

This is EXACTLY what WW said...that she felt like she had CONTROL

Affairs happen many times because there is a lack of something in the marriage. And the affair fills that void.

 

Arent there things missing in all marriages? We look back to find ways to explain affairs. When I look at my friends marriages without affairs....I can see a lot more missing than what we were missing

 

Your goal as a couple is to discover what that void was and begin to repair it. This will be the best and probably only way that your marriage can be rebuilt.

 

I agree. WW lacks the fortitude to analyse this. She is just so fearful that she just kisses my ass and does anything I say. I do not respect this. I want her to stand up and come up with some ideas.

 

Does she feel a lack of power or control or equality in your marriage? Does she miss the admiration and respect? It may not mean you do not feel it for her or try to express it to her. It may mean that she doesn't receive it.

 

Yes, since the affair I have been disrespectful. It's difficult to respect her. Her post affair behaviour doesn't warrant respect. It's pitiful. She became depressed, and a cutter. The cutting stopped.

 

From what I read, these past two years have been a stalemate. My question is...are you sure you want to keep going on like this?

 

No I do not. There has been considerable improvement for both of us. Neither are sick now. The crazy arguing stopped. I do not lash out verbally anymore. Part of the reasons we stayed were...codependency, lack of personal direction, both lost our jobs, etc.

I don't know what the future holds. We are like roomates now.

I don't like it, but I don't see us resolving this as she just would rather not talk about anything and just let the relationship magically resolve itself.