Leaving me made all her dreams come true.

[Steadfast]

 

You did not hold her back. She held herself back, she has to take responsibility for not expressing herself...She will feel the lonliness oneday...Now is the time for you to step away from her and focus on you and on what you want from the rest of your life. What will bring you happiness? I worry that you are waiting on her, DON'T, she doesn't deserve it and nothing has changed, SHE has not changed, she is still acting selfish and is still completely unable to express herself or accept her short comings which led to the demise of your marriage. In other words, she is still not willing to see her part in the breakdwon of your marriage, she's had 9 months!...You deserve better than this, it is time Tojaz for you to start living your life for you, to get out there and see that there is so much more than her. I strongly advise you go NC, completely and finally. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, I know it's hard and I know you are trying. The women is slowly breaking you, ENOUGH.

 

 

I kind of got lost on this thread...focusing on Tojaz and his emotions and not paying attention to the other conflict. Going back, I see it and FWIW, the above (snipped) comments by Lisa are without a doubt the best possible advice one could give another. I say this not (only) because I've lived it and can relate, but also because what's happening between Tojaz and his STBXW has proven to be human nature in these issues. How many posts does one have to read here to detect the pattern? It's almost like you know whats' coming next. Wait; no almost about it, you DO know!

 

It's like that t-shirt that reads: "It sucks being right all the time".

 

But there is something else...something deeper. The method for betrayed spouses to heal and move on (NC, positive reinforcement, etc) is such that it severely limits the chances of reconciliation due to placing the responsibility of the 'leaving' on the 'leaver'. One of the first emotions the betrayed feels is self-doubt and a sense of guilt, and this must be dealt with post-haste for the person's mental health. In the same way, the betrayed must know the responsibility of repairing the union must be implemented by the walkaway spouse, otherwise trust cannot be restored. Besides, who wants to live life in a controlling, one way marriage? Not me.

 

No doubt that after sharing and getting the support and encouragement so common here on LS, betrayed spouses know and will expect no less, even if troubled and confused by the betrayer's narcissistic and controlling behavior. See why reconciliation is so rare? It's as uncommon as the walkaway spouse realizing their problem and dealing with it.

 

Maybe a new forum for cheating husbands and wives might be in order, but the truth is they probably wouldn't read it. The truth is too painful. The heart loves whom it loves, but it takes courage to embrace your convictions.

[Simon Attwood]

In the same conversation, Paul also said this;

 

Now an obvious implication, Simon, is this - if you go talk to the run of the mill therapist out there, s/he may or may not be up to running speed with the folks out on the cutting edge. You could get a response of high respect for seeing the territory so clearly, and from outside the field, or alternately you could get a disrespectful reception with an attitude of, "Oh, what do *you* know, you ignorant layperson?" If you get that, please take heart: you are simply talking to a practitioner who is lagging behind in an era on the cusp of rapid change.

 

I blame myself, I gave you the ammunition and the target

[LisaUk]

In the same conversation, Paul also said this;

 

 

 

I blame myself, I gave you the ammunition and the target

 

And totally incapable of respecting another persons boundaries, hmmm now what does that say about you?

[LisaUk]

I kind of got lost on this thread...focusing on Tojaz and his emotions and not paying attention to the other conflict. Going back, I see it and FWIW, the above (snipped) comments by Lisa are without a doubt the best possible advice one could give another. I say this not (only) because I've lived it and can relate, but also because what's happening between Tojaz and his STBXW has proven to be human nature in these issues. How many posts does one have to read here to detect the pattern? It's almost like you know whats' coming next. Wait; no almost about it, you DO know!

 

It's like that t-shirt that reads: "It sucks being right all the time".

 

But there is something else...something deeper. The method for betrayed spouses to heal and move on (NC, positive reinforcement, etc) is such that it severely limits the chances of reconciliation due to placing the responsibility of the 'leaving' on the 'leaver'. One of the first emotions the betrayed feels is self-doubt and a sense of guilt, and this must be dealt with post-haste for the person's mental health. In the same way, the betrayed must know the responsibility of repairing the union must be implemented by the walkaway spouse, otherwise trust cannot be restored. Besides, who wants to live life in a controlling, one way marriage? Not me.

 

No doubt that after sharing and getting the support and encouragement so common here on LS, betrayed spouses know and will expect no less, even if troubled and confused by the betrayer's narcissistic and controlling behavior. See why reconciliation is so rare? It's as uncommon as the walkaway spouse realizing their problem and dealing with it.

 

Maybe a new forum for cheating husbands and wives might be in order, but the truth is they probably wouldn't read it. The truth is too painful. The heart loves whom it loves, but it takes courage to embrace your convictions.

 

 

Hi Steadfast

 

Some of us unfortunately don't choose NC, it is forced upon us by the walking without warning ex.

 

Most here do take responsibility for their part in the breakdown of the relationship, but as the saying goes "you can take a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". If the leaver refuses to work on resloving the issues, there is nothing, NOTHING, the left can do except look after themself, let go and move on. After all, it takes two to tango.

[tojaz]

In the same conversation, Paul also said this;

 

Now an obvious implication, Simon, is this - if you go talk to the run of the mill therapist out there, s/he may or may not be up to running speed with the folks out on the cutting edge. You could get a response of high respect for seeing the territory so clearly, and from outside the field, or alternately you could get a disrespectful reception with an attitude of, "Oh, what do *you* know, you ignorant layperson?" If you get that, please take heart: you are simply talking to a practitioner who is lagging behind in an era on the cusp of rapid change.

 

 

I blame myself, I gave you the ammunition and the target

 

Simon, Sorry, but this post smacks of insult. There is not much I dislike more on LS then the folks who come here for their own intellectual pursuits or to spur debate to stroke their own ego. This is a place of real people with real emotions and dealing with real hurt! Not a place of research for your own pursuits.

 

In my time here I have grown very close to some of the people here, and I do take offense if one of them is insulted...especialy on my thread!

 

Lisa has asked you to stop prodding. Regardless of background or whos friend wrote what, I think it unfair for anyone to argue anybodys right to know what is in there own head. Patterns exist, but nothing is law. Lis has been nothing but honest about her emotions on this board since she has arrived here, both good and bad. To argue that you know what is in her head and in her heart more then anyone else is nor only unfounded but egotistical for a "Layman" especialy.

 

I openly asked for your opinions here and accept whatever comes. Lisa replied to me, she did not request to be psychoanalyzed here and has quite clearly asked that she not.

 

That being said Simon. I believe you give a lot of good advice here and have some interesting insight for all. I do think it best you wait til they ask though.

 

Sorry if that seems harsh Simon, but enough tit for tat here.

TOJAZ

 

And totally incapable of respecting another persons boundaries, hmmm now what does that say about you?

Lis, do not fuel the fire! To continuing to offer a response shows you are inclined to continue, if you are uncomfortable...let it die.

[nobmagnet]

oh so true lisa!!

 

when you are forced into a situation that is not of your choice you have to deal with it as best you can. Protecting yourself works wether they come back or not. Broken people will never mend without the greiving process of the split fully.

 

IMO the stronger we become in our own self the more realistic we feel about wether we actually want this person in our lives. Its a healthy place to be. We gain the " choice" and its a win win situation.

 

LS helps lots and lots of us to get to the point of acceptance and strength.

 

xxx

[LisaUk]

Simon, Sorry, but this post smacks of insult. There is not much I dislike more on LS then the folks who come here for their own intellectual pursuits or to spur debate to stroke their own ego. This is a place of real people with real emotions and dealing with real hurt! Not a place of research for your own pursuits.

 

In my time here I have grown very close to some of the people here, and I do take offense if one of them is insulted...especialy on my thread!

 

Lisa has asked you to stop prodding. Regardless of background or whos friend wrote what, I think it unfair for anyone to argue anybodys right to know what is in there own head. Patterns exist, but nothing is law. Lis has been nothing but honest about her emotions on this board since she has arrived here, both good and bad. To argue that you know what is in her head and in her heart more then anyone else is nor only unfounded but egotistical for a "Layman" especialy.

 

I openly asked for your opinions here and accept whatever comes. Lisa replied to me, she did not request to be psychoanalyzed here and has quite clearly asked that she not.

 

That being said Simon. I believe you give a lot of good advice here and have some interesting insight for all. I do think it best you wait til they ask though.

 

Sorry if that seems harsh Simon, but enough tit for tat here.

TOJAZ

 

 

Lis, do not fuel the fire! To continuing to offer a response shows you are inclined to continue, if you are uncomfortable...let it die.

 

Thanks Tojaz and you're right I need to stop trying to defend myself and let it die.

[giotto]

tojaz, I've been following your ordeal for months now (7, to be precise) and I can't believe you are still so obsessed with your ex... I'm not saying you can switch off the feelings like that, but you need to sort your head out... you cannot go in living like this. Please, go full NC and pay for some serious lengthy IC... you can't win: she is miserable, and it's your fault, she is doing well and it's your fault, she is indefferent and it's your fault... get a grip, man! Stop torturing yourself...

[Aksion]

tojaz, I've been following your ordeal for months now (7, to be precise) and I can't believe you are still so obsessed with your ex... I'm not saying you can switch off the feelings like that, but you need to sort your head out... you cannot go in living like this. Please, go full NC and pay for some serious lengthy IC... you can't win: she is miserable, and it's your fault, she is doing well and it's your fault, she is indefferent and it's your fault... get a grip, man! Stop torturing yourself...

 

 

I usually stay out of other peoples threads because I'm probably more ****ed up than most and shouldn't offer any advice, but I can't let this one pass.

 

I'm in the same 'emotional' situation as you described in bold.

 

However, its not as if you always have complete control no matter how much of 'NC' you try to go into.

 

I tried the whole 'NC' thing with my stbxw -- do you know where that landed me? I literally had to isolate myself in my apartment w/ no phone/computer/etc. Why? Not because I wanted to talk to her -- I had tried that previously, but because SHE wouldn't go away. She walked out on our marriage, wanted nothing to do with me when I tried to work things out, but as soon as I left her alone and was finally content enough to start to 'move on', she caught wind of it and wanted to interfere.

 

However -- its all my fault according to her. I ruined our marriage. I caused her to leave -- you know the drill. So her being "happy" now, is my doing, however her being distraught and angered is also my doing.

 

Its not like all of us can up and re-locate to get away from the situation, I have to see her too often, and at times she'll pretend like she doesn't even know who I am (which hurts and drives me crazy) -- others, she'll make a scene.

 

I may abuse myself -- but the 'torture' you speak of comes from her.

 

Tojaz' situation may differ because his relationship with his ex is a helluva lot better than mine, but its still not him torturing himself, its the fact that she is still so willing to be in the midst of his life after the fact that she walked out on him IMHO. Maybe I'm wrong and he really does want her around, but I know I'd much rather just have the person who walked out on my marriage completely out of my life, there is no reason for them to still be there unless kids are involved.

[nobmagnet]

My dreams are comingtrue having been released. He walked. His life aintgoingto change as much as minebecause I have dreams.Dreams I can do without him. I restricted my dreams because I didnt have the energy or drive till he went. I was to blame for thatnot him. I put these ristictions on myself wrongly. Its a positive thingout of a negative one. Tojaz, She put restictions on herself. You didnt do it. The fact she has accomplished these things are not inspite of you. It was her choice to restrict her life not yours.

 

love neet xx

[SummerLady]

I'm calling it for what it is!

 

BS!

 

She's got more time on her hands, she's not got you. She's improvsing and adapting the same as you.

 

She's trying to adapt and overcome the same as you are ~ she's just trying to do it in her own way.

 

RULE ONE~ "You did the best you knew to do, you gave the best you had at the time!"

 

Bro your going to be me in about 34 years from now! If I had known then what I know now? I wouldn't be me!

 

I wasn't the best father and husband? But I'm far from having been the worse!

 

I gave it my all and did my best at the time?

 

Quit beating yourself up!

 

 

Gunny is right per usual. You gave what you had to give. You did the best you could at that particular time. That is all one human being can do. People move on from relationships for all sorts of reasons. You want someone to stay because they want to be there. Sometimes the bigger picture is hard to see right away. May take some time. You need to emotionally move on. You need to focus on you. Don't come down on yourself everyday. Give yourself a break..it always amazes me how we give passes to others and beat ourselves up constantly. The healing will take time but you will get there. Good Luck.

[Pups]

Hi Tojaz,

I'm new but I totally feel for you. I'm in a very similar situation. I like the book called "Storms Can't Hurt the Sky: A Buddhist Path Through Divorce." I know it sounds weird, but tough times call for drastic measures. Good luck! And thanks for posting, because I've gotten a lot of solace from reading your posts.

[tojaz]

Tojaz' situation may differ because his relationship with his ex is a helluva lot better than mine, but its still not him torturing himself, its the fact that she is still so willing to be in the midst of his life after the fact that she walked out on him IMHO. Maybe I'm wrong and he really does want her around, but I know I'd much rather just have the person who walked out on my marriage completely out of my life, there is no reason for them to still be there unless kids are involved.

Well Ak, I do want her around in a way. As long as she seems to want to be around. I agree that I would want the woman that walked out completely out of my life.....but the woman I loved for the last 13 years is still welcome. Lately I see a little of both in the pointless E-mails she sends me and the fact that the name on her E-mail account occasionaly reverts back to having my last name after having changed it back to her maiden. Has gone back and forth a few times. In the last few weeks. It is torture, but I also don't want to miss anything.

 

 

Hi Tojaz,

I'm new but I totally feel for you. I'm in a very similar situation. I like the book called "Storms Can't Hurt the Sky: A Buddhist Path Through Divorce." I know it sounds weird, but tough times call for drastic measures. Good luck! And thanks for posting, because I've gotten a lot of solace from reading your posts.

Welcome to LS Pups, and thanks for the compliment. Sorry I didn't reply sooner. Been laying low for a couple days. I'll have to look into that book, sounds interesting. The best help comes from sticking around and sharing your story. This place has helped me big time, not to mention making some very good friends.

TOJAZ

[KellyP]

Tojaz, she has you to thank for all that, she wouldn't be as successful as she is without your support and caring, just like you say she created you, you also created her.

[DenverBachelor]

And I was standing on the roof of a 6 story block of flats, wondering what it would feel like to hit the concrete 6 floors below.

 

Very painful but survivable.