What about the other man?

[dprtman09]

:mad:My wife, who I love without question, had an emotional affair with her supervisor (who also happened to be my supervisor at the time). He took advantage of his ability to be in proximity to her as a way to convince her that she should date him, which she did. At this point, I want to make it clear that she made bad choices, too. She has admitted that! All of the info I've seen about EM's fits our respective situations to a tee. I have found understanding of all that she told me about how it began and how hard it was to end. The deception was there, the destruction of trust was there, the ugly accusations and counter accusations were there, etc., etc. I was a mess when I found out. However, I was fortunate enough to contact the OM during the affair. I asked him what about the A made him think HE was right. He only replied, "I'm single". I replied, "But she's not". He then proceeded to kick her under the bus by claiming that she was "too strong". When I told my wife that, she said, "What did I do, tie him to a chair?" I truly believe that it never became a PA even though it's hard. I have to give my W some credit. She admits, in her own way, that it was close. He expressed his objection to her still sleeping with me at one point. He told one of her friends that he wanted to be with her only if I were out of the way.

Now, it's time to get to the point. Our marriage is saved! My W IS the woman I married! She has gone through the steps to regain my trust and I am making every effort to do so. IT IS NOT EASY! Can any man out there who is single and has been in an EM with a married woman tell me what goes on in his head? I need closure. Does anyone have the nerve? My wife and I recently and jointly tried to get the OM to at least own up, but all he does is reply that it was all her fault and any contact was initiated by her. Cell records don't lie and I still have them. It takes two! There is evidence that she contacted him after she claims to have had NC, but now there has been NC for about 2 months minimum. I can tell that she is back and I haven't been happier in a while.

I will hurt for a while yet and my W knows this. She lets me bring things up and I promised not to be accusatory. We have set rules and we're following them. To be honest, I could, but won't, thank the OM for making my W understand where we belong. I have worked on myself, too. The fun part is that he'll never know what he couldn't have (I DO have an ego).

Any insights would be helpful.

Edited December 23, 2009 by dprtman09

[Bryanp]

Hello,

Let me get this stright. Your wife was having an affair with her supervisor who was also your supervisor. This is so very low and showed her utter contempt for you. In addition, she said it came very close to physical (I assume intercourse) but did not. The OM demanded that she stop sleeping with you. Please think about the 2 above sentences. She admitted to coming very close which means she engaged in some serious physical activity and he demanded that she stop sleeping with you. I am sorry my friend but the chance are pretty good she was in fact sleeping with him and this is why he demanded that she stop sleeping with you because he did not want to share her.

 

I seriousy doubt that she would put her marriage at such risk by openly dating her's immediate supervisor and you being aware of it without it becoming totally physical. The previous statements just do not make sense. It is quite normal for betrayed spouses to be in denial and the betraying spouse to engage in damage control which sounds like this is probably the case. I would encourage the both of you to have STD testing as soon as possible.

[eyeswide]

I think what you're asking for is understanding as to why this happened from his POV, but I also think you're saying that you are frustrated that he is taking no responsibility for what happened. Is that a fair summary?

 

I have experienced the same frustration. I have forgiven my husband ("bad feelings" still come up and forgiveness is a process, not a one time act) and actively continue to do so, but what lingers in my head is not so much what he did to me but what his xAP did to me.

 

In my case, she was a friend. A really good, feel-it-in-our-hearts kind of friend. She threw me under a bus, bigtime, during their affair (while lying to me continuously). That hurts. A lot.

 

But what I also find myself haunted by is how she has since blamed my H for almost everything in the affair and her unwillingness to truly take adequate responsibility for what happened. She has also shown little remorse toward me for the pain and hurt she has caused. She threw a few words about this to me after (finally) ending contact with my H, but it was so perfunctory that the "apology" itself felt downright dismissive.

 

And still it burns. Still I am haunted. I don't even know what I want from her and even if I ever figure it out, I'll probably never get it. Everyone on LS will say "the OW doesn't owe the BW anything. And vice versa." But the "incomplete" feeling I have still drives me nuts. I want her to admit that she is JUST as responsible for their affair as he is.

 

Sorry I can't offer you much advice, but I can at least say "I think I know what you're feeling."

Edited December 23, 2009 by eyeswide

[lkjh]

I think the reason why you want the OM to fess up is because your wife has not been honest with you. First off the affair was probably somewhat physical, when he told her friend he won't be with her as long as she is sleeping with you he meant that he won't be in a relationship with her, not that he won't sleep with her.

 

Also, its only been 2 months NC which is way to early to claim that all is back to normal. To really recover from an affair you need lots of time. You should probably report him to HR

[dprtman09]

thank you ijkh. the om in question was let go in march of '08. that's when things really heated up. since we all worked for the same company when it began, i would have put my wife's job in jeopardy, too. the proverbial rock and a hard place. I am, however, well aware of the sexual harassment laws and probably could have filed a suit against the om and the company as a damaged third party. by the way, my w has been promoted since he left. she actually has his job.

[dprtman09]

Hello,

Let me get this stright. Your wife was having an affair with her supervisor who was also your supervisor. This is so very low and showed her utter contempt for you. In addition, she said it came very close to physical (I assume intercourse) but did not. The OM demanded that she stop sleeping with you. Please think about the 2 above sentences. She admitted to coming very close which means she engaged in some serious physical activity and he demanded that she stop sleeping with you. I am sorry my friend but the chance are pretty good she was in fact sleeping with him and this is why he demanded that she stop sleeping with you because he did not want to share her.

 

I seriousy doubt that she would put her marriage at such risk by openly dating her's immediate supervisor and you being aware of it without it becoming totally physical. The previous statements just do not make sense. It is quite normal for betrayed spouses to be in denial and the betraying spouse to engage in damage control which sounds like this is probably the case. I would encourage the both of you to have STD testing as soon as possible.

 

That's my biggest problem. I agree 100% with you to the extent that she won't admit how far they went. I really don't think they had intercourse. there are many reasons about her that would point that up, but it would be too longa a story. You did, however, hit on some really important points that I have been or am thinking about. As is characteristic, our intimate moments were quite intense during the A. Either she was taking her tension for him out on me or she was "primed".

[2sunny]

thank you ijkh. the om in question was let go in march of '08. that's when things really heated up. since we all worked for the same company when it began, i would have put my wife's job in jeopardy, too. the proverbial rock and a hard place. I am, however, well aware of the sexual harassment laws and probably could have filed a suit against the om and the company as a damaged third party. by the way, my w has been promoted since he left. she actually has his job.

 

from the way you address all of this - it seems you value a job much more than you value your wife. all of the words written about the job show that it's given a higher priority than your wife.

[dprtman09]

I think what you're asking for is understanding as to why this happened from his POV, but I also think you're saying that you are frustrated that he is taking no responsibility for what happened. Is that a fair summary?

 

I have experienced the same frustration. I have forgiven my husband ("bad feelings" still come up and forgiveness is a process, not a one time act) and actively continue to do so, but what lingers in my head is not so much what he did to me but what his xAP did to me.

 

In my case, she was a friend. A really good, feel-it-in-our-hearts kind of friend. She threw me under a bus, bigtime, during their affair (while lying to me continuously). That hurts. A lot.

 

But what I also find myself haunted by is how she has since blamed my H for almost everything in the affair and her unwillingness to truly take adequate responsibility for what happened. She has also shown little remorse toward me for the pain and hurt she has caused. She threw a few words about this to me after (finally) ending contact with my H, but it was so perfunctory that the "apology" itself felt downright dismissive.

 

And still it burns. Still I am haunted. I don't even know what I want from her and even if I ever figure it out, I'll probably never get it. Everyone on LS will say "the OW doesn't owe the BW anything. And vice versa." But the "incomplete" feeling I have still drives me nuts. I want her to admit that she is JUST as responsible for their affair as he is.

 

Sorry I can't offer you much advice, but I can at least say "I think I know what you're feeling."

 

You, as a woman, are right where I am as a man. In fact, it was one of her co-workers, a female BS, who was the biggest help to ending the A. She told my W that she knew how I felt and what was being done to me and the marriage. She finally tipped the balance away from the OM enough to wake my W up to his real motives. She and I didn't even really know each other, but I owe her a debt of gratitude.

[dprtman09]

from the way you address all of this - it seems you value a job much more than you value your wife. all of the words written about the job show that it's given a higher priority than your wife.

 

Absolutely one hundred per cent wrong! Sorry

[2sunny]

That's my biggest problem. I agree 100% with you to the extent that she won't admit how far they went. I really don't think they had intercourse. there are many reasons about her that would point that up, but it would be too longa a story. You did, however, hit on some really important points that I have been or am thinking about. As is characteristic, our intimate moments were quite intense during the A. Either she was taking her tension for him out on me or she was "primed".

 

she was thinking about him while in your presence. that is also a true form of cheating... sex PHYSICALLY with a husband but MENTALLY and emotionally she was with the OM... hence the intense sex during the affair. so, ultimately in her mind she wasn't having sex with you but with him.

[dprtman09]

:mad:My wife, who I love without question, had an emotional affair with her supervisor (who also happened to be my supervisor at the time). He took advantage of his ability to be in proximity to her as a way to convince her that she should date him, which she did. At this point, I want to make it clear that she made bad choices, too. She has admitted that! All of the info I've seen about EM's fits our respective situations to a tee. I have found understanding of all that she told me about how it began and how hard it was to end. The deception was there, the destruction of trust was there, the ugly accusations and counter accusations were there, etc., etc. I was a mess when I found out. However, I was fortunate enough to contact the OM during the affair. I asked him what about the A made him think HE was right. He only replied, "I'm single". I replied, "But she's not". He then proceeded to kick her under the bus by claiming that she was "too strong". When I told my wife that, she said, "What did I do, tie him to a chair?" I truly believe that it never became a PA even though it's hard. I have to give my W some credit. She admits, in her own way, that it was close. He expressed his objection to her still sleeping with me at one point. He told one of her friends that he wanted to be with her only if I were out of the way.

Now, it's time to get to the point. Our marriage is saved! My W IS the woman I married! She has gone through the steps to regain my trust and I am making every effort to do so. IT IS NOT EASY! Can any man out there who is single and has been in an EM with a married woman tell me what goes on in his head? I need closure. Does anyone have the nerve? My wife and I recently and jointly tried to get the OM to at least own up, but all he does is reply that it was all her fault and any contact was initiated by her. Cell records don't lie and I still have them. It takes two! There is evidence that she contacted him after she claims to have had NC, but now there has been NC for about 2 months minimum. I can tell that she is back and I haven't been happier in a while.

I will hurt for a while yet and my W knows this. She lets me bring things up and I promised not to be accusatory. We have set rules and we're following them. To be honest, I could, but won't, thank the OM for making my W understand where we belong. I have worked on myself, too. The fun part is that he'll never know what he couldn't have (I DO have an ego).

Any insights would be helpful.

I guess I have to Reply to my own post, if you will. I really appreciate all of the comments thus far, but my W and I have been there and done that. She is privy to all of this and we really don't want to go over old territory. What I need to know was best seen by eyeswide. Is there a single man with enough nerve to tell me what he thought was right about an EM with a MW??? I could E-mail THE OM and invite him to reply anonomously, but my W and I already figure that he won't. She even e-mailed him in my presence asking him to give me some closure and he wouldn't. All he said was that it was all her fault, etc., etc. My W has owned up to all she can right now. I'm sure that if anything else is true, I'll know when I should. It's just that "The Jackass", as I call him, thought he was man enough to steal my wife, but is not man enough to admit it.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

ok. im an xOW. not what you are looking for but something hit me in your last post. it seems you are blaming him much more than the wife. like hes trying to steal her. he couldnt have stolen her if she wasnt open to it. she made vows to you, not him. it seems youre directing your anger in the wrong direction. she should be the one explaning...not him.

[Bryanp]

I think browneyedgirl made an excellent point. The OM never made vows to you. The OM never swore that he would foresak all others for you. The OM was not married to you. All your wife had to say was NO but she did not. It seems like you are trying to rationlize somehow it was all the OM's fault that she openly dated him and was physical intimate with him. Married people get hit on all the time but they do not go on to betray their spouses in such a way that your wife did to you. If a woman hit on you and you decided to pursue it and betray your spouse, is it not your fault? The bottom line is that married people are supposed to say NO when they are hit on but your wife said yes and somehow you are shifting the blame almost totally to the OM and wishing for an apology. What is wrong with this picture?

[elle01]

maybe I can help being an OW... the reason he didnt mind trying to steal your wife is because he had no commitment to you. He like other men wanted the hottest piece of A** he could get his hands on and he thought it was her. If your wife insists she did not have a PA believe her. You two were obviously in a rough patch in your marriage and are going to make it work which I applaud.

If the affair were a PA she would not have been having explosive sex with you, it would have been with the supervisor. It is unfortunate that women are human too and when there is a lull in the attention and intimacy we crave at home we are subject to fall for flirting and attention to make us feel alive and sexy again... You said yourself you have an ego and women do too in a sense. We also want to feel sexy and desired and he supplied that temporarily. If you are a happier person in your marriage with your wife and she is happier let this pass... Dont hold it over her head... he feels rejected by her and is not saying anything to keep the doubt in your mind.

Worry less about each and every detail and pour that energy into your newly happy marriage and explosive sex life and leave that where it belongs... in the past... best wishes

[torranceshipman]

What really strikes me is that youalready got an answer from the OM after that email, making clear his point of view that your W had a major part to play & wasn't as much of a poor little naive victim as you want to make her out to be. You asked him for closure but sounds like you only want closure if he is telling you what you want to hear. Read what he said again.

 

Also I think it was a PA even if it wasn't full sex (eg kissing, foreplay type stuff) else he wouldn't have said those things about his being upset about her sleeping with you. Good luck but please take the blinkers off and don't try to pin all the blame in him- what he said in the closure email may well have been 100% the truth and your W might simply be doin the age old 'throwing the AP under a bus to save their own ass' move which we've seen a million times on this board already.

[Space Ritual]

DPRTMAN,

 

You are in denial that this is a thing of the past. Sorry but you seem to be riding a "Honeymoon" of what you perceive as to being the salvation of your marriage. and I am afraid it's just like an addict who gets out of treatment and is a 90 day wonder with sobriety who thinks that everything from here on out is going to be a piece of cake.

 

The term "closure" is very overrated. Plus you rarely if ever really get the answers you seek. NC of two months is nothing at all. The question should not be about the Other Man, it should be about the steps YOUR WIFE HAS TAKEN TO GAIN YOUR TRUST BACK.

 

Being you have said that she has not been forthcoming with how far the affair went, but you ARE SURE it didn't go physical......

 

Dude, right now you can't be sure of anything. For all you know it's still going on. People that have affairs just don't get them, out of their system as you want to believe. You won't go into any detail as to exactly it is that your wife has done to build that trust back in so short a time. You just allude to "been there, done that". And you are giving your wife a free pass on all of this. And before you come back with "I am in a unique situation", or "You Don't know me", let me tell you...You are unique, just like everyone else.

 

I hate to tell you, but your eventual outcome is as clear as day. she will wait until your guard is down, and it will begin again. Maybe not with the same guy, but there will be another. She hasn't had to feel much consequence to her actions so my guess is that this isn't over by a long shot

[road]

" in her own way, that it was close. He expressed his objection to her still sleeping with me at one point."

 

This was a PA. Physical Affair. The OM was banging your WW. WW's are afraid to admit they did the OM. They will admit to something small as to make their BH feel better.

 

Also when there is a PA the WW and OM want exclusivity when it comes to sex. Thus they work to not have the WW "do" her BH.

[road]

"If the affair were a PA she would not have been having explosive sex with you, it would have been with the supervisor."

 

Unfortunately there have been many stories where a WW's need for sex gets so amped up during the affair that they even go to new levels with their BH. Their whormone's are on such an edge they need relief so they'll do BH because OM is not available.

[dprtman09]

ok. im an xOW. not what you are looking for but something hit me in your last post. it seems you are blaming him much more than the wife. like hes trying to steal her. he couldnt have stolen her if she wasnt open to it. she made vows to you, not him. it seems youre directing your anger in the wrong direction. she should be the one explaning...not him.

 

Well, you just made my point, thank you! You, as an OW are obviously not taking the responsibility for not saying no to the MM. We're all adults here and we all have choices to make. No one can say the MM made the right choice, but are you not an accomplice? That's why I'm angry with the OM. He could have turned my W away because she is married. What I want to know is what made you think you were right???

[dprtman09]

I think browneyedgirl made an excellent point. The OM never made vows to you. The OM never swore that he would foresak all others for you. The OM was not married to you. All your wife had to say was NO but she did not. It seems like you are trying to rationlize somehow it was all the OM's fault that she openly dated him and was physical intimate with him. Married people get hit on all the time but they do not go on to betray their spouses in such a way that your wife did to you. If a woman hit on you and you decided to pursue it and betray your spouse, is it not your fault? The bottom line is that married people are supposed to say NO when they are hit on but your wife said yes and somehow you are shifting the blame almost totally to the OM and wishing for an apology. What is wrong with this picture?

 

Look at my reply to browneyed girl and add this: I have never not blamed my W for the A. Believe me, she and all of our close friends know that. However, I made vows to her and forgiveness, though not easy, is necessary. She knows I will not forget and my guard will never be down, but if I can't forgive and look for reasons (within reason) to trust her again, then "WE" are doomed. As far as a woman hitting on me, I need to avoid following, yes, but is that woman not wrong for doing so? It takes two to tango, people. Wake up and smell the coffee!!! I don't want to blame ONE, I just want to know what rationale made him pursue her or allow her to come on to him, WHICHEVER IS TRUE.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

I never once said I was right. Please dont use my words to prove a point other than how i intended them.

 

I have an obligation to explain my actions to my own husband. He has an obligation to explain his actions to his wife.

 

I feel no obligation to tell her that I'm sorry your husband was coming on to me and i should have protected your marriage by fighting him off. it doesnt work that way.

 

now i do feel obligated to tell her how i hurt her as another woman, a mother and just a human being as we shouldnt hurt others like that.

 

but its not my job to keep her husband from cheating on her. i wasnt his "accomplice." its not that OM's responsibility not to destroy your marriage its your W's.

[dprtman09]

DPRTMAN,

 

You are in denial that this is a thing of the past. Sorry but you seem to be riding a "Honeymoon" of what you perceive as to being the salvation of your marriage. and I am afraid it's just like an addict who gets out of treatment and is a 90 day wonder with sobriety who thinks that everything from here on out is going to be a piece of cake.

 

The term "closure" is very overrated. Plus you rarely if ever really get the answers you seek. NC of two months is nothing at all. The question should not be about the Other Man, it should be about the steps YOUR WIFE HAS TAKEN TO GAIN YOUR TRUST BACK.

 

Being you have said that she has not been forthcoming with how far the affair went, but you ARE SURE it didn't go physical......

 

Dude, right now you can't be sure of anything. For all you know it's still going on. People that have affairs just don't get them, out of their system as you want to believe. You won't go into any detail as to exactly it is that your wife has done to build that trust back in so short a time. You just allude to "been there, done that". And you are giving your wife a free pass on all of this. And before you come back with "I am in a unique situation", or "You Don't know me", let me tell you...You are unique, just like everyone else.

 

I hate to tell you, but your eventual outcome is as clear as day. she will wait until your guard is down, and it will begin again. Maybe not with the same guy, but there will be another. She hasn't had to feel much consequence to her actions so my guess is that this isn't over by a long shot

 

Thanks for the concern. I have an IQ of 134. I'm not stupid. If that's how you trust people, then you've had some bad experiences. I know your concern is genuine, or you would not have replied, but no one is going to restart the destruction of the last several months unless it's me or my W. So far that has not happened. There is nothing unique about me or my situation. I have been around the block enough to know when I'm being had. Right now, I'm not being had.

[mybrowneyedgirl]

I don't want to blame ONE, I just want to know what rationale made him pursue her or allow her to come on to him, WHICHEVER IS TRUE.

 

Really? You think its his responsibility to tell her not to betray you by coming on to him? Come on now.

[dprtman09]

I never once said I was right. Please dont use my words to prove a point other than how i intended them.

 

I have an obligation to explain my actions to my own husband. He has an obligation to explain his actions to his wife.

 

I feel no obligation to tell her that I'm sorry your husband was coming on to me and i should have protected your marriage by fighting him off. it doesnt work that way.

 

now i do feel obligated to tell her how i hurt her as another woman, a mother and just a human being as we shouldnt hurt others like that.

 

but its not my job to keep her husband from cheating on her. i wasnt his "accomplice." its not that OM's responsibility not to destroy your marriage its your W's.

 

You still won't admit that you could have stopped the affair yourself. What did he do, tie you to a chair??? What were you thinking at the time--that it was OK because he hit on you? We ALL have an obligation to hold up moral behavior.

[dprtman09]

"If the affair were a PA she would not have been having explosive sex with you, it would have been with the supervisor."

 

Unfortunately there have been many stories where a WW's need for sex gets so amped up during the affair that they even go to new levels with their BH. Their whormone's are on such an edge they need relief so they'll do BH because OM is not available.

 

road, i know there's a point in there somewhere, but you need to find it.

Even my wife doesn't know where you're going yet.