What about the other man?

[dprtman09]

I don't want to blame ONE, I just want to know what rationale made him pursue her or allow her to come on to him, WHICHEVER IS TRUE.

 

Really? You think its his responsibility to tell her not to betray you by coming on to him? Come on now.

 

SOOOO! Half of the population has to be moral and half doesn't. Now I'm beginning to see why he has no remorse. My wife has answered many, many times to several people. She has been screamed at, defamed, villified, accused, and threatened. She has watched me and our son fall apart. She decided she no longer wanted that. You are right, both of you need to answer to your respective spouses and accept the consequences of your actions. But EVERYONE who is a party to the A has a cross to bear. Tha's one of the things wrong with this world--relative morality.

[dprtman09]

SOOOO! Half of the population has to be moral and half doesn't. Now I'm beginning to see why he has no remorse. My wife has answered many, many times to several people. She has been screamed at, defamed, villified, accused, and threatened. She has watched me and our son fall apart. She decided she no longer wanted that. You are right, both of you need to answer to your respective spouses and accept the consequences of your actions. But EVERYONE who is a party to the A has a cross to bear. Tha's one of the things wrong with this world--relative morality.

 

 

It wasn't his responsibily totally, it was hers as well, BUT HE KNEW ME and he KNEW SHE was married and he didn't have the decency or self respect to tell he "no" or "you're married". And it didn't stop HIM from being anywhere that she was and that was not in her control. He was the supervisor, he could go to her office everyday if he pleased, so you tell me if he was after her or she was after him??????

[eeyore1981]

D09, I get what you are saying, but a lot of people don't, not because they are incapable, but because they don't want to see what crappy human beings they are.

 

They want to postulate blame as being a fixed amount, therefore, if you blame someone as well as your wife, in their minds you are taking responsibility away from your wife and putting it on someone else.

 

Blame is not fixed. One person being 100% responsible for their actions does not take away from another person being 100% responsible for their actions. Going after a married person, or succumbing to a married person going after them, is a sh*tty thing to do, no matter how you slice it. It doesn't lessen how sh*tty the actions of the married person were.

 

If you give $20 in payment, and the cashier gives you change back for $100, you have a choice whether to keep it, or correct their mistake. Keeping it does not make the cashier any less of an idiot, however, it is still wrong, and still stealing. Some people give it back, some, however, justify keeping it without a thought of whether the cashier will end up having it taken out of their check, get fired for stealing, etc. It all comes down to whether or not a person cares about others.

 

I haven't read this entire thread, but it sounds like your OM is like my OW. It's been over 2 years since dday for me, and the only remorse OW has is she chose my H to screw around with, and she is very, very remorseful about that, lol. Sometimes, it is the best you will ever get, and you have to learn to be satisfied with it.

[dprtman09]

maybe I can help being an OW... the reason he didnt mind trying to steal your wife is because he had no commitment to you. He like other men wanted the hottest piece of A** he could get his hands on and he thought it was her. If your wife insists she did not have a PA believe her. You two were obviously in a rough patch in your marriage and are going to make it work which I applaud.

If the affair were a PA she would not have been having explosive sex with you, it would have been with the supervisor. It is unfortunate that women are human too and when there is a lull in the attention and intimacy we crave at home we are subject to fall for flirting and attention to make us feel alive and sexy again... You said yourself you have an ego and women do too in a sense. We also want to feel sexy and desired and he supplied that temporarily. If you are a happier person in your marriage with your wife and she is happier let this pass... Dont hold it over her head... he feels rejected by her and is not saying anything to keep the doubt in your mind.

Worry less about each and every detail and pour that energy into your newly happy marriage and explosive sex life and leave that where it belongs... in the past... best wishes

 

elle01--a breath of fresh air! During our discussions of events, my wife said that was part of what she felt. I have read material that indicates that such feelings occur. Don't think for one minute that I don't have any part in the A. Granted, simply losing romance is no justifiction for what happened, but I have an obligation to prove that I can forgive if I claim to forgive. So, yes, I do need to appreciate what has been returned to me. It took her a while to realize that his only motivation was a piece. It did't do well for her self esteem. But, when it dawned on her that it was a possibility, her anger was real. It is a pity, though, that an OM hasn't yet replied to any postings. The problem is that women need love to have sex and men need sex to have love, generally speaking. I think you know that many people can be hurt by two people having an A. I also think you know that the TWO of you were wrong. Therefore, at this point, you are "more right". Best wishes to you, too and may you find the one who is right for you if you haven't already.

[dprtman09]

D09, I get what you are saying, but a lot of people don't, not because they are incapable, but because they don't want to see what crappy human beings they are.

 

They want to postulate blame as being a fixed amount, therefore, if you blame someone as well as your wife, in their minds you are taking responsibility away from your wife and putting it on someone else.

 

Blame is not fixed. One person being 100% responsible for their actions does not take away from another person being 100% responsible for their actions. Going after a married person, or succumbing to a married person going after them, is a sh*tty thing to do, no matter how you slice it. It doesn't lessen how sh*tty the actions of the married person were.

 

If you give $20 in payment, and the cashier gives you change back for $100, you have a choice whether to keep it, or correct their mistake. Keeping it does not make the cashier any less of an idiot, however, it is still wrong, and still stealing. Some people give it back, some, however, justify keeping it without a thought of whether the cashier will end up having it taken out of their check, get fired for stealing, etc. It all comes down to whether or not a person cares about others.

 

I haven't read this entire thread, but it sounds like your OM is like my OW. It's been over 2 years since dday for me, and the only remorse OW has is she chose my H to screw around with, and she is very, very remorseful about that, lol. Sometimes, it is the best you will ever get, and you have to learn to be satisfied with it.

 

Hosannah in the highest!!! You and elle01 finally get my point!!! Too many exclamation points? No sooner did my wife and I discuss your very point than up it popped. Are you psychic? Seriously, between the two of you, you are starting to shed light on what I need to know. The OM or OW in an A is amoral and uncaring about who they hurt so long as their needs appear to be satisfied. Several people have pointed out that the OM had no obligation to me and right now, that's the only power he has. Who's living in denial now? Some OM's or OW's do "repent" if you will, as pointed out by elle01, but most go on their mission of destruction like, dare I say, Hitler. They are the masters of their domain and all who enter are their subjects.It's a pity that there are women and men who make bad choices and become subjects, but BOTH are 100% responsible for their actions. The OM or OW, for the most part, just don't have any obligation (in their minds) to answer to those who are hurt. Thank you.

[dprtman09]

What really strikes me is that youalready got an answer from the OM after that email, making clear his point of view that your W had a major part to play & wasn't as much of a poor little naive victim as you want to make her out to be. You asked him for closure but sounds like you only want closure if he is telling you what you want to hear. Read what he said again.

 

Also I think it was a PA even if it wasn't full sex (eg kissing, foreplay type stuff) else he wouldn't have said those things about his being upset about her sleeping with you. Good luck but please take the blinkers off and don't try to pin all the blame in him- what he said in the closure email may well have been 100% the truth and your W might simply be doin the age old 'throwing the AP under a bus to save their own ass' move which we've seen a million times on this board already.

 

I appreciate your thoughts. My W never tried to play naive once she knew what I knew. They did do the kissing and foreplay type stuff. You are probably right on the money with that point. However, if you read all of this thread, you may find that I'm not naive enough to pin ALL of the blame on either party. My W knows she was wrong and cannot ( and has no desire to) come up with any more rationalizations for what she did. No, we are not unique in our situation, but we are not anyone but who we are, therefore, you have not seen me or my W a million times on this board before. I'm glad you said "MIGHT simply be". It shows you have an open mind. What he said was what he wanted me to hear. He may want to get back at me for taking what he thought he had or get back at her for rejecting him for what she already had.

[Davey McG]

dprtman09, I've read your thread I feel really bad for you but am confused as to why so much of the anger is directed to the OM.

 

Marriage is a contract and a promise between your wife and you. The OM has nothing to do with this agreement. It is no one's moral obligation to hold up the terms of your marriage except for you and your wife. Let him go. He owes you nothing. Nobody forced your wife to mess around with him. She CHOSE to do what she did. She is the only one that can fix things and no amount of harassing this guy will make things better.

 

If your wife didn't want the affair to happen, it would not have happened. Simple!

[jnj express]

First You seem to think by your verbiage that an EA doesn't compare to a PA. In many instances an EA is way more damaging and serious than a PA. In an EA the partners give their hearts to each other along with intimacies, and emotions, that only belong to the mge. Many times a PA is just sex with no emotional attachment.

 

Your beef here is with your wife---you keep wanting opinions on why a single man would be a willing homewrecker----CUZ YOUR WIFE ALLOWED HIM TO. He took his shot and hit on her and she acquiesced. Life is full of scumbags like your Wife's Affair partner. It was up to her to say "NO, get the hell away from me I am married." She didn't.

 

Also did you ever find out the deep down WHY she gave her heart to a stranger and broke her vows and participated in the wreckage of her own mge.

[eeyore1981]

dprtman09, I've read your thread I feel really bad for you but am confused as to why so much of the anger is directed to the OM.

 

Marriage is a contract and a promise between your wife and you. The OM has nothing to do with this agreement. It is no one's moral obligation to hold up the terms of your marriage except for you and your wife. Let him go. He owes you nothing. Nobody forced your wife to mess around with him. She CHOSE to do what she did. She is the only one that can fix things and no amount of harassing this guy will make things better.

 

If your wife didn't want the affair to happen, it would not have happened. Simple!

 

BBM

 

This sounds good, but it doesn't completely cover the issue.

 

What about a man and woman in a long-term relationship who are not married? There is no contract, there are no vows, so is it not cheating?

 

And what about all the lying and sneaking around done by the single OW/OM? This is not rare, it is the majority. So, as they, IYO, are doing nothing wrong, why lie and sneak around? Maybe it is just me, maybe I am all alone in the universe, but when I am doing nothing wrong, I don't lie about what I am doing.

[eyeswide]

Hey D09, Sorry you had to listen to about 5 or 6 attack you and assume that you have mistakenly forgiven your wife and even refer to her hormones as "whormones" (geez, road, misogynize much?)

 

It seems like you are finally being heard, but -- as I predicted -- you're still getting the "OMs/OWs don't owe the BS anything" message quite a bit.

 

Here's what I'm wondering though...is his refusal to accept any responsibility for what happened actually more related to knowing that his arse is grass if anyone finds out? You're in Ohio -- I'm pretty sure that he'd be subject to job loss if your wife charged him with sexual harassment -- quid pro quo or otherwise. Hell, you could probably charge him with sexual harassment. His behavior (as a supervisor, so he is definitely subject to liability) created a pretty hostile work environment for you, no?

 

So I think he's got a kind of "rational" reason for not owning up to anything...he's SCARED!!! You have him over a barrel, from what I can tell from your story.

 

Use it. Get his ass canned. He can't retaliate if you file a claim. I think you are in the driver seat here D09. Enjoy it.

[jnj express]

Hey eyes----what planet are you coming from----there is nothing you can do in ohio to the OM----The beef is with the wife----there were no vows taken with the OM----the wife is responsible for whether she strays----If the OM offers, then it is up to the wife to say NO----SHE DIDN'T

[eyeswide]

:mad:My wife, who I love without question, had an emotional affair with her supervisor (who also happened to be my supervisor at the time).

 

Hi jnj -- I won't use the same insulting language or tone of voice that you have adopted with me, but I will respond...

 

the quote above from the OP's original post should help you get a better sense of the point I am trying to make (or what planet I am from, as it were).

 

This is not just a typical situation of a BH feeling like the OM did him wrong -- in his case the OM is not just some guy but his and his W's supervisor. If the wife and the OM were peers at work, the OM might not be liable, but in most states work supervisors can be taken to task for contributing to a "hostile work environment" related to sexual harassment.

 

Sexual harassment doesn't have to even be quid pro quo -- if the OP files a complaint saying that the supervisor created a hostile environment related to his past relationship with his wife, he might even have a claim.

 

My point is that the OM might realize that and that is why he is taking zero responsibility for anything happening because he's afraid he will lose his job.

 

Have a nice day:), jnj.

[imagine]

Dprtman,

 

Lets get a few things clear:

 

Your wife DID have a PA (Kissing). It is up to both of you to defend your marriage. Hang around on this page and you will see how many OM's there actually are.

 

You need to research how this breakdown in your marriage occurred. Firstly, your wife did not approach you as her feelings for OM changed. Secondly, she participated in an EA relationship with him. Thirdly, she compromised the sanctity of your marriage by indulging in a PA.

 

OM filled a need that you did not. Find it. Fix it.

 

Your wife was dishonest from the outset. You need to allocate time to mend this phenomenon since there is lots of competition. I suggest that you both learn the concept of radical honesty so that you are both protected.

 

It take about TWO years for a betrayed spouse to recover. Trust me, you will find that this is not over. This is not about blame - but future marriage protection.

 

You need to get your wife on board -you may be the next person to walk out. I recommend that you read the articles at Marriage Builders.com. Please realize that a high IQ has NO relation to emotional maturity. Dang, even Einstein divorced!

Edited December 28, 2009 by imagine

[Toodamnpragmatic]

you have all the answers and refuse to face them. You want an apology from him, that is not coming......

 

You have argued with everyone who has told you you haven't faced your wife and the situation to date....

 

But by all means, flaunt your 134 IQ (obviously your wife's is higher, as she has convinced you it was not a PA and all his fault and heck she is your boss now) and keep telling everyone you know better.....

 

Let me ask you.... How could this happen in front of your eyes and progress to the point that it did?????

[Robin2000]

It wasn't his responsibily totally, it was hers as well, BUT HE KNEW ME and he KNEW SHE was married and he didn't have the decency or self respect to tell he "no" or "you're married". And it didn't stop HIM from being anywhere that she was and that was not in her control. He was the supervisor, he could go to her office everyday if he pleased, so you tell me if he was after her or she was after him??????

 

 

My thoughts are that maybe if OM saw that your wife did not take the sanctity of your marriage seriously, why should he?

 

If the wife didn't have the self respect, or decency or even respect for you to ignore the attraction why should he?

 

Why does it even matter who was after who? Your wife either didn't say no when he approached her or she pursued him. I'm of the opinion that neither option makes him accountable to show decency or respect towards a relationship that the wife didn't behave decently/respectful towards. She set the tone as the married person for the situation in my opinion. She should be the sole focus of your concern. And as for her not having control over him as her supervisor. HR could have helped her with that. Or a good lawyer. Either option with her husband at her side as her champion against a sexual harrasser--not devastated after being in the dark. But you weren't given that option, were you?

[jnj express]

Hey eyes----I am not trying to be nasty----1st the OM has already left his job and is long gone----DPMan's wife has that position at this point in time.

 

just to set you straight----there are 7 states where the BS can file criminal conversation, or alienation of affection torts, Ohio is not one of them. One can always try intentional infliction of emotional distress but that is a much tougher proof, in re:adultery.

 

As to going after the OM for workplace harrasement---this situation was a situation between 2 consenting adults. If the wife had not consented, then she would have yelled rape from the beginning.

 

DPman needs to stop going after single men----yes there are lots of scumbag singles out there who will do whatever they can to get a married woman into bed ----or to gain their attention, and affection, and they are all slime, and they are responsible for 50% of the A.--BUT it is the wife who is responsible for saying NO. She knew what she was doing, she connived, manipulated, planned, cheated, and snuck her way around for how long????? She went home to her H. night after night looked him in the eyes and said everything is fine.

 

Much as I would love to go after the OMen who help to wreck families, and then usually walk away FREE-----they are not the ones responsible to the mge. DPMan's wife chose to disrespect her H., her kids and her family. That is where DPMan needs to go to work on his problem.

[Space Ritual]

Hey JNJ...

 

Happy Holidays and we sure miss you over at CC...well at least I do...lol. You always tell it like it is, even when they dont want to hear it.

 

Have a great New Year

 

DMcD

[jnj express]

Hey ds---how are you---you have a happy new year also hey you all got mad at me for telling that guy that he should have kept a leash on his wife, but you know I was right---If she was hitting the bars without him like she was---he could have tried to stop it---he didn't then he got mad cuz I did tell it like it was----would you let your wife repeatedly go out to bars w/out trying to do something about it. Anyway you be good, and again happy new year to you.

[silktricks]

dprtman - it is unfortunate, but almost undoubtedly true, that you will NEVER get from the OM what you would like to see... a recognition of joint responsibility for the affair.

 

I hope that you will be able to let it go, because continued dwelling upon the matter will probably not help you in the long run. You've seen here in this thread the sum total of how most affair partners feel. They are single and therefore have zero responsibility. According to them, it's always the married person who started it, always the married person who has the sole responsibility for it, oh yes, and of course the betrayed spouse's responsibility for not keeping their partner "satisfied"... in other words, it's the responsibility of everyone except themselves.

 

I once saw a co-worker attempt to sue the company we worked for as having a "hostile work environment" because she had an affair with a married co-worker. Some people just need to play the victim card and never be adult enough to take responsibility for their own actions. Be glad that your wife is taking responsibility for hers.

 

I hope the two of you can continue to rebuild your marriage. Don't expect to get many (or any) apologies from affair partners for their part, though. It almost never happens.

 

Good luck!!

[Robin2000]

 

You've seen here in this thread the sum total of how most affair partners feel. They are single and therefore have zero responsibility. According to them, it's always the married person who started it, always the married person who has the sole responsibility for it,

 

 

Just for the sake of clarity I am a former BS, ( my first marriage) not an affair partner and stand by what I said about the wayward spouse setting the tone for whether or not the boundries of her marriage being respected.

 

If she didn't respect her marriage and have the decency to be faithful, why should the OM feel responsible for a marraige that isn't even his?

 

My former husbands multiple partners did not incur my wrath. Matter of fact they never even heard a word from me except the one who called the house. They did not have any accountability to me or my marriage. My husband set the tone for whether our marriage should have been respected or not and my issues at that time lay solely with him. Also for the sake of clarity I get flirted with and hit on occasionally and understand that there are men who would have me were I willing to defile my marriage bed and vows..... I demand respect for my marriage and my vows and IT NEVER GOES THERE.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Just for the sake of clarity I am a former BS, ( my first marriage) not an affair partner and stand by what I said about the wayward spouse setting the tone for whether or not the boundries of her marriage being respected.

 

If she didn't respect her marriage and have the decency to be faithful, why should the OM feel responsible for a marraige that isn't even his?

 

My former husbands multiple partners did not incur my wrath. Matter of fact they never even heard a word from me except the one who called the house. They did not have any accountability to me or my marriage. My husband set the tone for whether our marriage should have been respected or not and my issues at that time lay solely with him. Also for the sake of clarity I get flirted with and hit on occasionally and understand that there are men who would have me were I willing to defile my marriage bed and vows..... I demand respect for my marriage and my vows and IT NEVER GOES THERE.

 

You are right, but you do hope the OM/W has some morals.... Unfortunately often not so....

 

Anyways looking forward to the OP doing the sweep of the recent posts and telling us how we are all wrong in our assumptions, posts, comments and observations....

[dprtman09]

My thoughts are that maybe if OM saw that your wife did not take the sanctity of your marriage seriously, why should he?

 

If the wife didn't have the self respect, or decency or even respect for you to ignore the attraction why should he?

 

Why does it even matter who was after who? Your wife either didn't say no when he approached her or she pursued him. I'm of the opinion that neither option makes him accountable to show decency or respect towards a relationship that the wife didn't behave decently/respectful towards. She set the tone as the married person for the situation in my opinion. She should be the sole focus of your concern. And as for her not having control over him as her supervisor. HR could have helped her with that. Or a good lawyer. Either option with her husband at her side as her champion against a sexual harrasser--not devastated after being in the dark. But you weren't given that option, were you?

 

The first part of what you say explains his lack of responsibility and moral character. The second part is correct in the context of the time it all occurred. Neither one of them will make it clear who pursued who. It's all about admitting wrong behavior and trying to spin it. My W has come much , much further in admitting and analyzing her behavior than the OM ever will. Lastly, no, I was not given that option until she decided to break off the affair. I make this point to all contributors to this thread. She had all the power in the following situation: She had to decide to break the affair. Because I honored my vows all along, I could only wait until she made the right decision. Fortunately for both of us, she did. Once the affair was broken, the power was once gain equally distributed between the two of us. He has no power that we don't give hiom and he knows it.

[dprtman09]

My thoughts are that maybe if OM saw that your wife did not take the sanctity of your marriage seriously, why should he?

 

If the wife didn't have the self respect, or decency or even respect for you to ignore the attraction why should he?

 

Why does it even matter who was after who? Your wife either didn't say no when he approached her or she pursued him. I'm of the opinion that neither option makes him accountable to show decency or respect towards a relationship that the wife didn't behave decently/respectful towards. She set the tone as the married person for the situation in my opinion. She should be the sole focus of your concern. And as for her not having control over him as her supervisor. HR could have helped her with that. Or a good lawyer. Either option with her husband at her side as her champion against a sexual harrasser--not devastated after being in the dark. But you weren't given that option, were you?

 

dprtman - it is unfortunate, but almost undoubtedly true, that you will NEVER get from the OM what you would like to see... a recognition of joint responsibility for the affair.

 

I hope that you will be able to let it go, because continued dwelling upon the matter will probably not help you in the long run. You've seen here in this thread the sum total of how most affair partners feel. They are single and therefore have zero responsibility. According to them, it's always the married person who started it, always the married person who has the sole responsibility for it, oh yes, and of course the betrayed spouse's responsibility for not keeping their partner "satisfied"... in other words, it's the responsibility of everyone except themselves.

 

I once saw a co-worker attempt to sue the company we worked for as having a "hostile work environment" because she had an affair with a married co-worker. Some people just need to play the victim card and never be adult enough to take responsibility for their own actions. Be glad that your wife is taking responsibility for hers.

 

I hope the two of you can continue to rebuild your marriage. Don't expect to get many (or any) apologies from affair partners for their part, though. It almost never happens.

 

Good luck!!

My W and I agree with you. He won't apologize. If he really did care about her, then he's hurt (poor baby). If he just wanted a piece, then he didn't care about either one of us. Either way, he probably feels that we're both crazy. Finally, yes, our marriage is being rebuilt. Like I've said before, I am serious about my vows and I will make that clear to my W. She needs to rebuild the trust and that will take time. But, I need to allow her the chance to do so. It is still a 2-way street.

[dprtman09]

First You seem to think by your verbiage that an EA doesn't compare to a PA. In many instances an EA is way more damaging and serious than a PA. In an EA the partners give their hearts to each other along with intimacies, and emotions, that only belong to the mge. Many times a PA is just sex with no emotional attachment.

 

Your beef here is with your wife---you keep wanting opinions on why a single man would be a willing homewrecker----CUZ YOUR WIFE ALLOWED HIM TO. He took his shot and hit on her and she acquiesced. Life is full of scumbags like your Wife's Affair partner. It was up to her to say "NO, get the hell away from me I am married." She didn't.

 

Also did you ever find out the deep down WHY she gave her heart to a stranger and broke her vows and participated in the wreckage of her own mge.

 

Even if he was allowed to, he could have still said no. Dual responsibility is what we have here. Yes, we have discussed what led her to stray and I have examined any mistakes I may have made. She admits that she overplayed my faults in order to justify her actions on dday. We took it from there to find out what my faults may really have been. By the way, I will NOT take responsibility for what she did.

[dprtman09]

dprtman09, I've read your thread I feel really bad for you but am confused as to why so much of the anger is directed to the OM.

 

Marriage is a contract and a promise between your wife and you. The OM has nothing to do with this agreement. It is no one's moral obligation to hold up the terms of your marriage except for you and your wife. Let him go. He owes you nothing. Nobody forced your wife to mess around with him. She CHOSE to do what she did. She is the only one that can fix things and no amount of harassing this guy will make things better.

 

If your wife didn't want the affair to happen, it would not have happened. Simple!

 

Nobody forced the ***hole to mess with her either. I have stopped communicating with him a while back.