What about the other man?

[Darth Vader]

He definitely misused his position. BUT, your wife is the one that willingly dated him.

 

Your wife doesn't get a free pass because of the OM's status.

 

 

 

 

you found understanding? forgive me, but that translates to me like she is playing you like a fiddle.

 

 

 

 

although you have every right to be angry at the other man, and he does have the responsibility of doing unto others as he would have done unto him.....it is your wife that needs to be held accountable here.

 

 

 

 

really? with that I would have to assume that she is a complete open book, she comes right home after work, etc..etc. Oh, and also, has your wife quit her job or is she looking for another one? Because if she is not at least looking, then she is NOT going through one major step to right her wrong.

 

if you want to just up and forgive her and not hold her accountable to do what needs to be done, then that is your call. but if she is still working with this guy, in my opinion, nothing she has done up to this point makes a difference, UNTIL she is not around him on a daily basis.

 

 

 

 

again, you have every right to be angry at him...but it is your wife's state of mind an what went on in her head that is all that matters.

 

 

 

 

what difference does it make what the OM "owns up" to? Your wife willingly dated him. She is the one you need to deal with. Be angry at the other man, cuss his ass out. but at the end of the day his words to you are meaningless.

 

 

 

 

is she still working with him???

 

 

 

 

in other words, she wants no consequences to her actions. she wants you to hold in your feelings and not say what you really want to say.

 

 

 

 

what would those be?

 

 

 

 

but he COULD have had her. remember, she dated him, and don't think for a minute that he hasn't had her. not saying this to get your blood boiling, just don't be a fool. Your wife is a liar by default. My guess is she lied about it being a physical affair because she knows that would send most men over the top. also if it was physical, she knows that it would cast a label onto her as well that is different from simply an emotional affair.

 

but as far as thanking the OM? go ahead. nothing wrong with that. I thanked my OM for taking my x-wife off my hands. they are now each others problem, and I've heard that is exactly the case. Sucks to be them.

 

Listen to Dex, man, he's been there done that big time!

 

BTW Dex, You say they are each other's problem, are they having a rough time of it?

[LifesontheUp]

I never believed my xH would have an affair. After all he had watched how his fathers affair destroyed his mother and never spoke to his father again because of it. He detested what his father had done and was always disparaging of any work colleagues who had affairs. He called them selfish, lacking in morals etc etc.

 

But you know what, despite the above he had an physical affair with co-worker.

 

I didn't believe he had any opportunity for sex either. His time was accounted for. After all, me, him and his OW worked in the same office. Me and the xH went to work together and went home together and he never went out without me. BUT...............he managed it and it was physical.

 

Now I'm not saying it became physical between your wife and the OM but you are quick to point out that everything in life isn't black and white. So for once, open your mind to the possibility that despite your belief they didn't have opportunity, there is a chance they found a way. Believe it or not, those in affairs can be very creative in managing ways to see each other.

 

Reason I say the above is because your wife is still holding back on you. She still will not come clean and tell you who pursued whom. Why won't she tell you? This makes me wonder what else she is omitting.

 

IMHO if your marriage is to stand a chance she needs to answer all questions you have asked. Open and honest is key.

[dprtman09]

I never believed my xH would have an affair. After all he had watched how his fathers affair destroyed his mother and never spoke to his father again because of it. He detested what his father had done and was always disparaging of any work colleagues who had affairs. He called them selfish, lacking in morals etc etc.

 

But you know what, despite the above he had an physical affair with co-worker.

 

I didn't believe he had any opportunity for sex either. His time was accounted for. After all, me, him and his OW worked in the same office. Me and the xH went to work together and went home together and he never went out without me. BUT...............he managed it and it was physical.

 

Now I'm not saying it became physical between your wife and the OM but you are quick to point out that everything in life isn't black and white. So for once, open your mind to the possibility that despite your belief they didn't have opportunity, there is a chance they found a way. Believe it or not, those in affairs can be very creative in managing ways to see each other.

 

Reason I say the above is because your wife is still holding back on you. She still will not come clean and tell you who pursued whom. Why won't she tell you? This makes me wonder what else she is omitting.

 

IMHO if your marriage is to stand a chance she needs to answer all questions you have asked. Open and honest is key.

 

It was a PA as well as an EA. We just seem to have a problem with defining "PA". Hard core posters want to say that it is impossible for them NOT to have gone to bed. I believed that myself while it was going on and for a while after. Deductive logic says that I cannot prove a negative. I can't prove that she did not go to bed with him. However, I can't prove that she did. We all know that. I have to make a hard decision on what to believe. Based on the preponderance of the evidence and eyewitnesses to the beginnings of it all, I have decided that she did not. Also, the same witnesses said that it was obvious at first that he pursued her (chased her until she caught him). Granted, it led to her making a really bad decision, but she is not a game player at heart, or I wouldn't have married her in the first place. I've been through the games--twice.

 

You are right, the opportunities definitely existed. But, given my W's past and her ability, or lack thereof, to trust just anyone, it would take more than a crush to get her to bed. Physical attraction is THE basis for any new relationship, but morals and emotions are present even in the wrong ones.

 

Her story has been repeated to me and my best friend many times. there have been no inconsistencies in the last year when it comes to the physical aspects. In fact, even when the A was still going, there were no inconsistencies. I can't prove that she's NOT lieing, but I can't prove that she is.

[Bryanp]

This is just a thought but why not have her take a polygraph. They cost about 400-500 dollars. My attorney friends tell me they are amazingly accurate unless one is a psychopath and delusional.

[dprtman09]

Actually, I prefer the Dark side!!!!!! LOL:p:lmao: Of course there's hope, there's hope for everyone.

 

But, seriously, people here on LS are trying to help you, they don't want to see you right back in here in a few months or years having just found out that "OMG they did sleep together, they were right, etc."

 

Believe me, I've seen it in here enough to know. It reminds me of the Tiger Woods thingy, a simple accident revealed all! And he has or rather had millions many times over, and he still couldn't keep it a secret! It never ceases to amaze me how things like infidelity can be found out in the most unusual ways. This paragraph is more directed towards your wife BTW, (since she reads these posts), but it should give you a heads up as well. If she did in fact ride her Boss, it is inevidable that it will come to light, so she might as well fess up now and stop wasting your years that would be better spent on someone else that you could trust and would be faithful and love you. (I had to get that point out)

 

 

 

 

This part disturbs me for some reason, damn strange.......... It looks like she had an agenda set up. Yes, the courts are crooked, shoot, the courts are crooks themselves, too bad women know it. Makes me want to stay single, forever! Well, almost.

 

In the last year, nothing has come to light. I have no doubt that those on this site are decent people, that's why I'm here (I cherry-picked my way to this site, as I pointed out somewhere in all of this). You have some very valid points, but, as I've pointed out to another poster, one cannot prove a negative. I can't prove that my W did NOT sleep with him. I have made a decision to go with the most evidence that she did not. In other words, none of us can prove that she did sleep with him. She cannot prove that she did NOT sleep with him. Her knowledge of my activity here and what she knows of the posts has led her to more soul searching regarding WHY she did what she did, so this site is helping me. In short, she wanted to have her cake and eat it, too. I believe that for a while, she actually thought that it was OK to look for things in the OM that she thought I couldn't offer. Sex wasn't one of them. She wanted both worlds. Matter and anti-matter cancel each other out in a h**l of an explosion. Our marriage was in critical condtion, but if I didn't think it was worth it, I wouldn't be here, just ask my first wife.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

This is just a thought but why not have her take a polygraph. They cost about 400-500 dollars. My attorney friends tell me they are amazingly accurate unless one is a psychopath and delusional.

 

He came here with a question, in which he wanted us to answer as he expected. This has not happened. Rightly or wrongly he has absolved his wife, though still is overly possessive and still hurt.

 

Many here still are convinced his wife has not come clean and while he considers having his wife back as some "victory", is continually confronted and he takes the bait and talks about why he is sure his wife was "blameless".

 

He still has not confronted how this could have been done with such callous disregard right in front of him, yet he missed it for ages...... And then wonders why some question his steadfast resolution that it can't happen on his watch.

[dprtman09]

 

this is disturbing to me as well... she was/is? still willing to cover up and be sneaky with omissions and half truths? what is the gain in that, certainly not any gain for the best interest of the M. she is willing to save face in order to try to save the M... is that good ENOUGH for you? she admits only when backed into the corner, how do you trust when that is the case? it's simply not good enough - you are settling for half truths and half measures which will get you nothing. if nothing is what you want - then that is good enough.

 

omissions and half truths or moving away from answering a question are still blatant forms of lying. how far is she willing to play this cover up game. if she's unwilling to be totally, brutally honest - then the M will suffer... maybe not now - but down the road it will show in forms of being disconnected, absent, and emotionally unavailable because of the guilt and shame from the cover up.

 

honesty = freedom... how free do you both want to be? a M can't be based upon lies and deceit, that is just not possible for a healthy M. it can survive, it just won't flourish - big difference... get my drift?

 

i hope your W is reading - she owes you more truth than what she's given.

 

2s, you are right. She does owe me more truth. She owes me ALL the truth. But we do have the freedom to determine how this marriage will go. I firmly believe that any left over truth will come out when it should. Sometimes, you have to hurry up and wait, but never, NEVER do nothing while you wait. I'm an active kind of guy.

[dprtman09]

He came here with a question, in which he wanted us to answer as he expected.

This has not happened. Rightly or wrongly he has absolved his wife, though still is overly possessive and still hurt.

 

Many here still are convinced his wife has not come clean and while he considers having his wife back as some "victory", is continually confronted and he takes the bait and talks about why he is sure his wife was "blameless".

 

He still has not confronted how this could have been done with such callous disregard right in front of him, yet he missed it for ages...... And then wonders why some question his steadfast resolution that it can't happen on his watch.

 

TDP--right again. The original question buried in my verbeage was: does any single man who has been or is in an A with a married woman have the nerve to get on here and tell me what the h**l made him think he was right? That has not and may not ever be answered. The fact that the thread took on a life of its own speaks to the creativity and genuine concern of the participants. My W was wrong. The OM was wrong. Don't over-think it people!

 

I spent a great deal of time and energy over-thinking. The concept is so simple! All of your posts thus far have embodied every thought I had or will have regarding the last two years. You proved to me that I'm not unique or crazy. Those are the first fears I had about myself right after dday. I"M NOT INSANE! Everyone has shown me that. Some may think I'm off base, but, to each their own. How far off base do you think I felt on dday? Do any of you think that I knew which of my own thoughts or fears to believe? Do any of you think that you haven't helped put the whole mess into context? The problem I had was a big bunch of stuff floating around in the space of my brain. Now, at least, it's much more organized. You've all done that. That seems to be what this is all about.

 

Imagine, if you will, being bombarded with all of this from within. At least, when one hears it from others, one can "stream" it at a controlled pace. For that, I am grateful.

[Spark1111]

dp, speaking from my experience as a fBS, I, too could not wrap my head around the OW in my scenario.

 

Two years past DDAy, I called her and said, "I only have one question for you: Woman to woman, how did you give yourself permission to do to me what your exH did to you with his last AP? It is something I could never wrap my head around."

 

She grew hysterical, then angry, then blaming of everyone, (My WS especially, and me too) and then evaded further questions and hung up on me.

 

So much for closure. But it did help me gain insight into the type of person she was.

 

So, in my sitch, he (my WS) was a lonely, somewhat depressed man at that time in our marriage, and she was a needy divorcee who had to prove how desirable she was after her husband cheated and then married his LAST exotic affair partner.

 

It is as simple as they crashed into each other; two lonely, vulnerable souls who used the relationship (first as co-workers) to form a deep friendship based on flattery, attention and validation.

 

Then, boundaries were crossed and it escalated into an affair.

 

Maybe the OM loved the challenge of pursuing a vulnerable woman, made more exciting by the fact that she was married. Many men love the pursuit. It's competition! And if it could be won, think of the ego-boost to an insecure male ego!

 

Maybe your wife grew flattered that her supervisor was paying more than the usual attention to her, at a time she was feeling vulnerable and alone. A huge ego-boost for her!

 

Now, both are starting to feel extra special with all of this attention, and small step by small step, they start sliding down a slippery slope; something she/he believed could be controlled, now grows out of control.

 

Your wife SEEMS to be doing the hard work of restoring your trust, but still may not have a handle on what the hell happened. My husband, awakening from his affair-fog, is still trying to piece together information for me. It is a hard journey and you may not?/never have all of it from her; you may get NONE of it from him.

 

Please pick up a copy of "Not Just Friends," by Dr. Shirley Glass. She still remains the infidelity guru. Read anything you can find on her and her studies.

 

But please remember this as you seek to work on your marriage; cheaters generally have low self-esteem, conflict avoidance issues, and poor communication skills, especially about their feelings, according to most of the psychological research I have read.

 

You NEED to (I know, I know, in addition to everything else you have to endure because of the affair) create a safe environment for her to disclose the facts to you because you, as the BS who never cheated, remain the stronger personna in the relationship!

 

Good luck to you and your wife.

[Snowflower]

 

You NEED to (I know, I know, in addition to everything else you have to endure because of the affair) create a safe environment for her to disclose the facts to you because you, as the BS who never cheated, remain the stronger personna in the relationship!

 

Good luck to you and your wife.

 

Good advice here!

 

dp, I think I understand what you are saying in your posts. If (and when) you feel your wife has disclosed everything that you need to know, then hopefully you will come to some sense of acceptance with what happened.

 

And I do think that many BS are the stronger person emotionally in the relationship. BS (if they haven't been unfaithful themselves) often don't have the emotional turmoil that many WS seem to have which lead them to have an A.

 

As horrible as I feel being a BS at times, at least I know I didn't cause such severe emotional harm to someone who loved me. There is some solace in that for me. I learned through this that I am emotionally stronger than my H in a lot of ways...I always was...perhaps, in part, that is why he 'ran' to someone as vulnerable as he was. Maybe this was the case with your wife, dp?

 

It's different for each BS--what they need to know and what they don't. Spark does a good job in her post above about explaining what she needed to know from her H.

 

I came to accept rather quickly that I would never know everything that was ever done/said between my H and the OW. Personally, I'm okay with that. My H tried to recall conversations and things that happened in his A and was consistent in his recollections. From what you post here, dp, if your wife is consistent and transparent then that is good.

 

I think many WS have a very difficult time discussing and admitting to what they did. Shame, remorse, guilt, embarrassment, play a big role. So, in a way I can understand some of their reluctance to talk about the affair with the BS. However, the WS should be trying, to the best of their ability, to be as consistent and honest as possible.

 

Good luck to you and your wife...if it has been a year and your relationship is gradually improving and you have a true sense of honesty from your wife and about your marriage in general, then this is a very good thing.

[dprtman09]

This is just a thought but why not have her take a polygraph. They cost about 400-500 dollars. My attorney friends tell me they are amazingly accurate unless one is a psychopath and delusional.

 

Oh, come on now! She didn't attack me, she attacked the M. As the M's lawyer, I don't think it's necessary. Maybe around April of '08, I may have agreed, but things have gone to right to stir that s**t up again.

[dprtman09]

He definitely misused his position. BUT, your wife is the one that willingly dated him.

 

Your wife doesn't get a free pass because of the OM's status.

 

 

 

 

you found understanding? forgive me, but that translates to me like she is playing you like a fiddle.

 

 

 

 

although you have every right to be angry at the other man, and he does have the responsibility of doing unto others as he would have done unto him.....it is your wife that needs to be held accountable here.

 

 

 

 

really? with that I would have to assume that she is a complete open book, she comes right home after work, etc..etc. Oh, and also, has your wife quit her job or is she looking for another one? Because if she is not at least looking, then she is NOT going through one major step to right her wrong.

 

if you want to just up and forgive her and not hold her accountable to do what needs to be done, then that is your call. but if she is still working with this guy, in my opinion, nothing she has done up to this point makes a difference, UNTIL she is not around him on a daily basis.

 

 

 

 

again, you have every right to be angry at him...but it is your wife's state of mind an what went on in her head that is all that matters.

 

 

 

 

what difference does it make what the OM "owns up" to? Your wife willingly dated him. She is the one you need to deal with. Be angry at the other man, cuss his ass out. but at the end of the day his words to you are meaningless.

 

 

 

 

is she still working with him???

 

 

 

 

in other words, she wants no consequences to her actions. she wants you to hold in your feelings and not say what you really want to say.

 

 

 

 

what would those be?

 

 

 

 

but he COULD have had her. remember, she dated him, and don't think for a minute that he hasn't had her. not saying this to get your blood boiling, just don't be a fool. Your wife is a liar by default. My guess is she lied about it being a physical affair because she knows that would send most men over the top. also if it was physical, she knows that it would cast a label onto her as well that is different from simply an emotional affair.

 

but as far as thanking the OM? go ahead. nothing wrong with that. I thanked my OM for taking my x-wife off my hands. they are now each others problem, and I've heard that is exactly the case. Sucks to be them.

 

Your post deserves more attention.

 

RE: OM's status: You're right. But keep in mind that they were BOTH wrong.

 

RE: "fiddle": Please don not insult me. Nothing got past me after dday. The lameness of her excuses and stories was outrageous and I never hesitated to let her know it. I didn't get stupid later.

 

RE: "doing unto others": Right again. But I remember that they are BOTH responsible.

 

RE: "open book": Yes, she is. Yes, she does. Why should she, she's the first sensible District Manager they've had in 4 years. This guy was let go in early March of 2008. Later, it came out that the company may have been aware that something was amiss. By the way, he was OUR supervisor. Our company is in 50+ locations in Ohio. After a brief stint with his replacement (incompetant), she (a training manager at the time) was promoted to the position that the OM had held. Everyone says she's better at it than he was. She began her career at entry level in my office. We started dating after her promotion to my peer in the chain of command 7 years ago. She's the only over-achiever I've ever trained. I know her job well enough to know exactly what she's doing now. The OM lives 40 miles away and is a district manager for Hllrich (a Pizza Hut multi-franchise holder). I see his vehicle frequently because one of his locations is .5 miles from where I work. I know enough people in the company (after 12+ years) to be able to track my W any time if I want to. I just don't want to waste the energy if I don't have to.

 

RE: "no consequences": The destruction she caused to me, our son, and the marriage were the consequences. When she finally decided to see that, she knew she couldn't succeed anywhere with all that baggage. At first, she did not want to see, but too many people told her about what she was doing. She was wrong, but not ignorant. Lastly, there was a time when she did not want to hear my feelings (obviously). In the "romantic" part of her A, why would she want to hear the down side? Having to come home to utter chaos was what she deserved at the time. Facing the fact that she had to end the chaos took time, but it happened because, eventually, she did listen to the down side from me and others.

 

Thank you for your post. I told Toodamnpragmatic that this thread is helping me organize my thoughts. I have to decide what is important to discuss with my W and what is not. Your post sums much of it up

 

I read what you went through. I hope they are miserable, too. I told my W and the OM that they could never have a relationship based on the destruction they caused. He ignored me and she woke up. She realized the cost of being with him and figured out that he had nothing to lose, so why should he care what happened to her or me. Once again, she was wrong in what she did, but in the long run, not ignorant.

 

My father told me that if one pays attention, one will find the person they should be with. If that hasn't happened to you yet, it will. It took me 50+ years. Keep paying attention. You derserve it.

Edited January 6, 2010 by dprtman09

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Oh, come on now! She didn't attack me, she attacked the M. As the M's lawyer, I don't think it's necessary. Maybe around April of '08, I may have agreed, but things have gone to right to stir that s**t up again.

 

That was the OP, which everyone has ignored (me too, but I have fun on this post for other reasons as many can see)..... I even asked in an earlier post, since you have asked the OM for answers, whether you ever asked him straight, whether they slept together and that you have never answered.

 

Really I am happy that you are past this, but I still am not sure whether you have all the answers from your wife. I however think differently then others, and am not sure you need or want to have all the answers from your spouse. What you want is for you two to be happy, and if that means keeping a secret, so be it.....

[dprtman09]

Your post deserves more attention.

 

RE: OM's status: You're right. But keep in mind that they were BOTH wrong.

 

RE: "fiddle": Please don not insult me. Nothing got past me after dday. The lameness of her excuses and stories was outrageous and I never hesitated to let her know it. I didn't get stupid later.

 

RE: "doing unto others": Right again. But I remember that they are BOTH responsible.

 

RE: "open book": Yes, she is. Yes, she does. Why should she, she's the first sensible District Manager they've had in 4 years. This guy was let go in early March of 2008. Later, it came out that the company may have been aware that something was amiss. By the way, he was OUR supervisor. Our company is in 50+ locations in Ohio. After a brief stint with his replacement (incompetant), she (a training manager at the time) was promoted to the position that the OM had held. Everyone says she's better at it than he was. She began her career at entry level in my office. We started dating after her promotion to my peer in the chain of command 7 years ago. She's the only over-achiever I've ever trained. I know her job well enough to know exactly what she's doing now. The OM lives 40 miles away and is a district manager for Hllrich (a Pizza Hut multi-franchise holder). I see his vehicle frequently because one of his locations is .5 miles from where I work. I know enough people in the company (after 12+ years) to be able to track my W any time if I want to. I just don't want to waste the energy if I don't have to.

 

RE: "no consequences": The destruction she caused to me, our son, and the marriage were the consequences. When she finally decided to see that, she knew she couldn't succeed anywhere with all that baggage. At first, she did not want to see, but too many people told her about what she was doing. She was wrong, but not ignorant. Lastly, there was a time when she did not want to hear my feelings (obviously). In the "romantic" part of her A, why would she want to hear the down side? Having to come home to utter chaos was what she deserved at the time. Facing the fact that she had to end the chaos took time, but it happened because, eventually, she did listen to the down side from me and others.

 

Thank you for your post. I told Toodamnpragmatic that this thread is helping me organize my thoughts. I have to decide what is important to discuss with my W and what is not. Your post sums much of it up

 

I read what you went through. I hope they are miserable, too. I told my W and the OM that they could never have a relationship based on the destruction they caused. He ignored me and she woke up. She realized the cost of being with him and figured out that he had nothing to lose, so why should he care what happened to her or me. Once again, she was wrong in what she did, but in the long run, not ignorant.

 

My father told me that if one pays attention, one will find the person they should be with. If that hasn't happened to you yet, it will. It took me 50+ years. Keep paying attention. You derserve it.

 

One last point RE: "liar by default": She WAS a liar by default. However, a lame one--really lame. I now have only 2 requirements of her, NC and don't lie to me. To quote Peter Gabriel, "I will find out!".

[dprtman09]

That was the OP, which everyone has ignored (me too, but I have fun on this post for other reasons as many can see)..... I even asked in an earlier post, since you have asked the OM for answers, whether you ever asked him straight, whether they slept together and that you have never answered.

 

Really I am happy that you are past this, but I still am not sure whether you have all the answers from your wife. I however think differently then others, and am not sure you need or want to have all the answers from your spouse. What you want is for you two to be happy, and if that means keeping a secret, so be it.....

 

TDP, a voice of reason.

[dprtman09]

Good advice here!

 

dp, I think I understand what you are saying in your posts. If (and when) you feel your wife has disclosed everything that you need to know, then hopefully you will come to some sense of acceptance with what happened.

 

And I do think that many BS are the stronger person emotionally in the relationship. BS (if they haven't been unfaithful themselves) often don't have the emotional turmoil that many WS seem to have which lead them to have an A.

 

As horrible as I feel being a BS at times, at least I know I didn't cause such severe emotional harm to someone who loved me. There is some solace in that for me. I learned through this that I am emotionally stronger than my H in a lot of ways...I always was...perhaps, in part, that is why he 'ran' to someone as vulnerable as he was. Maybe this was the case with your wife, dp?

 

It's different for each BS--what they need to know and what they don't. Spark does a good job in her post above about explaining what she needed to know from her H.

 

I came to accept rather quickly that I would never know everything that was ever done/said between my H and the OW. Personally, I'm okay with that. My H tried to recall conversations and things that happened in his A and was consistent in his recollections. From what you post here, dp, if your wife is consistent and transparent then that is good.

 

I think many WS have a very difficult time discussing and admitting to what they did. Shame, remorse, guilt, embarrassment, play a big role. So, in a way I can understand some of their reluctance to talk about the affair with the BS. However, the WS should be trying, to the best of their ability, to be as consistent and honest as possible.

 

Good luck to you and your wife...if it has been a year and your relationship is gradually improving and you have a true sense of honesty from your wife and about your marriage in general, then this is a very good thing.

 

Snowflower and Spark1111: I wish I could reply to two posts at once, but this is the best I can do. Both of you represent the balance that I have seen in the posters to this and other threads. It is gratifying to see this and represents the very conflicts that we who are participating have faced in our lives. We all handled it in our own ways. Some of it turned out good, some bad, but it all turned out, whether we liked it or not, the way it should have. Thank you for lending balance to the thread here.

[dprtman09]

Um, did I read this correctly? "under my supervision"???? You "tell her after the fact"? Entries that "you choose to discuss"?

 

Up until this post I thought perhaps yourself and your wife had re-kindled your relationship, but your phrasing makes me think that you have assumed the supervisor position in the relationship. In a marriage, at least to my mind, NOBODY gets to be the supervisor. You may be crowing now that your relationship has been saved, but if you are going to give her attitude like that, I assure you that she will resent you for both the continued punishment and treating her like the subserviant in the marriage. That's just wrong.

 

Do you think that your beautiful, accomplished and intelligent wife is going to take that for long? No. Do you think perhaps the OM spoke to her like an equal, which was both flattering and made him attractive to her? Yes. Do you think that your pretty little wife won't walk once she gets her eggs gathered into her basket? Because now I am pretty sure she will....

 

I simply cannot believe that you actually posted those phrases. Amazing.

 

OK, Chingaling, it's your turn. Considering my remarks out of context, you are on the money. By the way. thank you for referring to my W as what she is; that's why I married her.

 

Back to the point: "under my supervision" is her choice, not mine. She and I realize that disclosure at this point must be mutually agreed upon. The last thing a marriage should be is a power struggle. We are her, me, and the marriage. We are responsible to all three. I choose to discuss because it's up to her to answer my queries. She does so because she wants to work with me to rebuild the marriage. If I made her a servant, then I would be responsible for her actions. I have no time to be two people, it's hard enough being one. I left a marriage where I had to be someone I wasn't. I won't go there again. Likewise, I can't expect her to either.

 

Thank you for allowing me to address this very important point.

 

The reason I had to say what I said is because someone thought that her access to this thread would allow her to manipulate me and I wanted to make it clear that such was not the case.

Edited January 6, 2010 by dprtman09

[dprtman09]

TDP, a voice of reason.

 

By the way, TDP, perhaps you can shed some light on the following for the benefit of myself and others on this thread. According to the rules of deductive logic, one cannot prove a negative. Therefore, no one can prove what didn't happen in the A. Since I am aware of this fact, I am aware that I am not in denial, rather I have to accept what I can't prove. That is a choice only I can make.

 

Likewise, as in court, we can debate the preponderance of evidence until we are blue in the face and no one will be able to prove what did happen in the A. I have to accept that I have a right (though difficult) to make a judgement on the evidence and a verdict about the M. So does my W. We control what we can control and actively wait for solutions to occur when we can't control.

[Dexter Morgan]

Listen to Dex, man, he's been there done that big time!

 

BTW Dex, You say they are each other's problem, are they having a rough time of it?

 

not to threadjack, but I have posted before that he has already hit her. blackened her eye.

 

so I guess that would be a "yes".

[Dexter Morgan]

Your post deserves more attention.

 

RE: OM's status: You're right. But keep in mind that they were BOTH wrong.

 

RE: "doing unto others": Right again. But I remember that they are BOTH responsible.

 

Yes, but you want to absolve your wife and make it look as if she had a lesser role in things and that the OM is more to blame. To blame he is, but it is your wife that needs to bear the brundt of the responsibility here.

 

You want to take it easy on your wife, say she is a good person, all this that and the other, but make the OM out to be a jackass. That he is, but your wife is no better.

 

 

RE: "open book": Yes, she is. Yes, she does. Why should she, she's the first sensible District Manager they've had in 4 years.

 

if the other man hadn't been let go, then the least she would need to do is start looking for another job...that is unless of course you wouldn't have minded her being in daily contact with the man she had the hots for.

[silverplanets]

I've been a OM and also had an A .. seperate relationships, a long time apart and after my A I stood up for myself and divorced.

 

Even with this "experience" I just can't work out where you're trying to go with this?

 

- Has your wife told you the truth .. maybe, maybe not .. only time will tell

- Is the marriage saved .. maybe, maybe not ... only time will tell

 

Either way a joint obsession with what the OM thought seems odd at best .. and pretty toxic at worst.

 

You're treating him as if he's a differnet species .. he's not .. he's a human being just like you. If you want to understand him then just put yourself in his shoes ..

 

- perhaps he was at a point of low confidence in his life and therefore his "common sense" radar wasn't working ...

- perhaps he has issues from childhood which means he can only connect with poeple he can't have

- perhaps he really liked your wife and was suprised (and pleased) to find out she was available ...

- perhaps he had a bet with his mates he could get in her pants ...

- perhaps he loves red and your wife always wore red ...

 

OK, it's getting silly, but the point is that these are some possibilities and there are many more ... but there are two truths in all of them ...

 

1) NONE of these situations on their own caused an affair .. your wife willingly did that all by herself in taking part in a relationship whilst she was married

2) The other man doesn't need to tell you which one it was .. you wife can tell you ..

 

Did it feel like love to her? Given that it was a slowly developng emotional based affair rather than a one night stand then that looks likely. (Did she tell him she loved him?).

 

What did she also tell him (real or implied) to signal her availability/willingness. Did she tell him your marriage was over. Did she say she was thinking of leaving you. Did she manage to spend whole evenings and nights with him (which a normally married person just cannot do?). He got some sign for sure .. he;'s a guy like you and I and we both know we're not that bright at reading signs !!! so it was a pretty damn obvious one !!!!

 

Your poor wife knows this already ... and if that hasn't been shared with you then I'd be concerned for you both.

 

If she has shared it then what do you need him for .. to confirm what she says. If you need that then you don;t trust her and you still have issues - so again I'd be concerned for you.

 

Something that might be worth both of you pondering ... my married woman's husband reacted exactly like you ... took control, mastered a plan, decided he wanted to win .....

 

.... only I was never an enemy .. yes I really did care for her but heck she was an adult and it wasn;t up to me (or him) whether she chose to be in her marriage or not (it was up to her and her alone)

 

5 YEARS after she stayed with him she contacted me desperate to leave him ...

 

My point here is not what my answer was but that it was 5 years and she was chasing me.

 

So you;ve won .. but do you know at what cost ... (and do you know the enemy ... I'll give you a clue it perhaps wasn't the OM)

 

And your wife .. she;s been "shock and awe'd" by your operation .. but again, do you know at what cost???

 

Incidentally, my reason for being the original OM ... I was at a vunerable period in my life and wasn;t respecting MY boundries (ie avoiding relationships which were likely to do me harm) AND she told me her marriage was over and she was leaving him ... and I believed her.

 

She was a decent person, I genuinly liked her and I feel sorry that she is not happy now.

 

Wishing you both the best individually and as a couple if that's what you both decide ..

 

Chris

 

One final thought .. I do hope that working out how the OM thinks is not part of a plan to put in place an operation that will keep all OM away from your wife in the future. If so that's scarily controlling. Like I said, I hope it;s not , just an afterthought :-)

[Untouchable_Fire]

Likewise, as in court, we can debate the preponderance of evidence until we are blue in the face and no one will be able to prove what did happen in the A. I have to accept that I have a right (though difficult) to make a judgement on the evidence and a verdict about the M. So does my W. We control what we can control and actively wait for solutions to occur when we can't control.

 

True, but based on the circumstances you CAN say that there is a high likelihood that X occurred during the affair... or whatever.

 

You wanted to know what was in the other guys head?

 

Some of us are just deeply competitive. I've known men that struggle to even be attracted to women who are single. Listen to rap music for 10 minutes and you will understand what I mean. "forget about your BF and meet me at the hotel"... ect.

[dprtman09]

Yes, but you want to absolve your wife and make it look as if she had a lesser role in things and that the OM is more to blame. To blame he is, but it is your wife that needs to bear the brundt of the responsibility here.

 

You want to take it easy on your wife, say she is a good person, all this that and the other, but make the OM out to be a jackass. That he is, but your wife is no better.

 

 

 

 

 

if the other man hadn't been let go, then the least she would need to do is start looking for another job...that is unless of course you wouldn't have minded her being in daily contact with the man she had the hots for.

 

Understand this above all else. I will never absolve my wife. The Catholic church split apart over the subject of absolution in the middle ages. She has yet to absolve herself. It's a matter of forgiveness.

[2sunny]

Understand this above all else. I will never absolve my wife. The Catholic church split apart over the subject of absolution in the middle ages. She has yet to absolve herself. It's a matter of forgiveness.

 

so what does forgiveness look like for you; and for your wife? have you asked her to describe this for you? i'd ask, because a lot of times i am surprised when two people have a very different idea of what a simple concept looks like for them...

 

based upon both expectations laid out in detail - it may give you a better idea of what you can and/or can't look past or move forward with.

[dprtman09]

so what does forgiveness look like for you; and for your wife? have you asked her to describe this for you? i'd ask, because a lot of times i am surprised when two people have a very different idea of what a simple concept looks like for them...

 

based upon both expectations laid out in detail - it may give you a better idea of what you can and/or can't look past or move forward with.

 

I'm glad you asked. For a while, it did not look as though you agreed with much of what I've posted. Maybe you still don't, but open discussion has been productive, so here goes. To me, forgiveness does not mean forgetfullness. It means that I can go on loving my W for the woman she is even though she committed a wrong against me. It means that I shouldn't constantly remind her of the wrong she already knows she has committed. It means that I should allow her to talk freely about what happened whenever and wherever practical. As long as I am sure that she is taking responsibility for her actions, she is free to do so.

 

To her, as she has related to me, She hopes that I have gotten past the anger and fear. She hopes that I will give her the opportunity to show me what our marriage means to her in light of the fact that she could have destroyed it. She has said that it is her responsibility to accept forgiveness if I will give it. Our MC told her that, but at first she thought that meant kissing my a**. It finally dawned on her that it meant not to dispute my right to be angry and hurt and let me control that in my own way. She also has allowed me to decide what, amongst her many complaints during the A, I may actually have been "guilty" of that made her unhappy, so that I can correct my relationship to her if necessary. In order for this marriage to succeed, we two intelligent and relatively successful people have to start using our common sense to replace the bitter memories with new ones that strengthen our drive to a new dynamic, if you will. The A has forever changed our marriage, no doubt, but it's up to us what we do with the changes.

 

By the way, yes, she had already been asked.