What about the other man?

[dprtman09]

BBM

 

This sounds good, but it doesn't completely cover the issue.

 

What about a man and woman in a long-term relationship who are not married? There is no contract, there are no vows, so is it not cheating?

 

And what about all the lying and sneaking around done by the single OW/OM? This is not rare, it is the majority. So, as they, IYO, are doing nothing wrong, why lie and sneak around? Maybe it is just me, maybe I am all alone in the universe, but when I am doing nothing wrong, I don't lie about what I am doing.

 

Thank you, eeyore. Once again, you are reminding everyone that it takes two to tango.

[dprtman09]

you have all the answers and refuse to face them. You want an apology from him, that is not coming......

 

You have argued with everyone who has told you you haven't faced your wife and the situation to date....

 

But by all means, flaunt your 134 IQ (obviously your wife's is higher, as she has convinced you it was not a PA and all his fault and heck she is your boss now) and keep telling everyone you know better.....

 

Let me ask you.... How could this happen in front of your eyes and progress to the point that it did?????

No one knows about a cheating spouse BEFORE it happens!

A PA is in the eyes of the beholder. I have no reason to believe she went to bed with him. My W and I have faced each other for over a year now and WE"RE STILL MARRIED. Is that so d***ed amazing??? I mentioned my IQ to that particular person because of the tone of his/er message. I agree that the apology will never com and I really don't care. However, this thread to date is openning my eyes as to what he may have been thinking. I am an information gatherer. My W only knows waht he wanted her to know. I want to know what he doesn't want me to know. Believe me when I tell you, I could still give him some royal grief if I wanted to, but I know that what goes around comes around. When my satisfaction comes, I'll know that , too. More importantly, he will, too. Lastly, My W and I are insulted by your implication that we are in competition over who is the smartest person in our marriage. We are not married to our jobs, we are married to each other and take pride in OUR accomplishments. She is not my boss, the company will not allow that. They made special arrangements to put me under another supervisor to make room for her promotion. We are both successful with our employer and are happy with our respective contributions.

[dprtman09]

Dprtman,

 

Lets get a few things clear:

 

Your wife DID have a PA (Kissing). It is up to both of you to defend your marriage. Hang around on this page and you will see how many OM's there actually are.

 

You need to research how this breakdown in your marriage occurred. Firstly, your wife did not approach you as her feelings for OM changed. Secondly, she participated in an EA relationship with him. Thirdly, she compromised the sanctity of your marriage by indulging in a PA.

 

OM filled a need that you did not. Find it. Fix it.

 

Your wife was dishonest from the outset. You need to allocate time to mend this phenomenon since there is lots of competition. I suggest that you both learn the concept of radical honesty so that you are both protected.

 

It take about TWO years for a betrayed spouse to recover. Trust me, you will find that this is not over. This is not about blame - but future marriage protection.

 

You need to get your wife on board -you may be the next person to walk out. I recommend that you read the articles at Marriage Builders.com. Please realize that a high IQ has NO relation to emotional maturity. Dang, even Einstein divorced!

Excellent points. We have been working at them and for the most part, you're right. Thank you. The best compliment I can give you is not to dispute you.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

No one knows about a cheating spouse BEFORE it happens!

A PA is in the eyes of the beholder. I have no reason to believe she went to bed with him. My W and I have faced each other for over a year now and WE"RE STILL MARRIED. Is that so d***ed amazing??? I mentioned my IQ to that particular person because of the tone of his/er message. I agree that the apology will never com and I really don't care. However, this thread to date is openning my eyes as to what he may have been thinking. I am an information gatherer. My W only knows waht he wanted her to know. I want to know what he doesn't want me to know. Believe me when I tell you, I could still give him some royal grief if I wanted to, but I know that what goes around comes around. When my satisfaction comes, I'll know that , too. More importantly, he will, too. Lastly, My W and I are insulted by your implication that we are in competition over who is the smartest person in our marriage. We are not married to our jobs, we are married to each other and take pride in OUR accomplishments. She is not my boss, the company will not allow that. They made special arrangements to put me under another supervisor to make room for her promotion. We are both successful with our employer and are happy with our respective contributions.

 

and I find this thread very amusing because of your unintentional humour..... You do not seem to get the sarcasm in my post, nor do you really understand what happened between you, your wife and the other man..... Until you do, keep spouting and flaunting your smarts on this thread as it is really quite amusing.....

 

Now to be serious.... Your spouse cheated right in front of you (reminds of a post last month in the Marriage section where a wife suggested a polyamourous relationship with her dance instructor and tried to get her husband to agree to it)...... Open your eyes and ask "Why the f**k would she start an AFFAIR right in front of your face with the your supervisor?" That to me is the most facsinating aspect and you accpeted it or turned a blind eye.... How could you not know??????

 

But I do wish you the best of luck.....

[Space Ritual]

No one knows about a cheating spouse BEFORE it happens!

A PA is in the eyes of the beholder. I have no reason to believe she went to bed with him. My W and I have faced each other for over a year now and WE"RE STILL MARRIED. Is that so d***ed amazing??? I mentioned my IQ to that particular person because of the tone of his/er message. I agree that the apology will never com and I really don't care. However, this thread to date is openning my eyes as to what he may have been thinking. I am an information gatherer. My W only knows waht he wanted her to know. I want to know what he doesn't want me to know. Believe me when I tell you, I could still give him some royal grief if I wanted to, but I know that what goes around comes around. When my satisfaction comes, I'll know that , too. More importantly, he will, too. Lastly, My W and I are insulted by your implication that we are in competition over who is the smartest person in our marriage. We are not married to our jobs, we are married to each other and take pride in OUR accomplishments. She is not my boss, the company will not allow that. They made special arrangements to put me under another supervisor to make room for her promotion. We are both successful with our employer and are happy with our respective contributions.

 

You mentioned your IQ to me because I told you exactly what the score is...and still remains...and that score is Denial 1, Dprtman 0.

And it was not the tone you objected to, it was the truth you objected to.

 

You said your marriage was saved in you initial post. Rather than spouting off about your wish for a grudge match and how stupid we all are why don't you concentrate on that. I simply gave you an alternative reality to your situation (which by your subsequent replies will more likely than not come to fruition).

 

 

I see no further use in any of us pointing out the blatantly obvious to you, because you already know everything so trying to help you is a moot point. Actually what I told you came from experience, and was trying to get you to understand that this whole thing may or may not be over and to warn you of that possibility. Instead you took it as a blast to your honor and have continued to reply to other posters in an obstinate manner. Of course if you are really looking into all the reasons why your wife cheated, this has already been discussed, right?

You came here to seek advice, you got the advice. Just not the advice you were cherry picking for. Because I don't think Al Bundy is a registered user here.

 

But you can still catch him in reruns.

 

 

Best of luck

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Since you are so hellbent on getting an answer from the OM and go on and on telling us there was no PA (or at least no more then some kissing)..... Why don't you ask him for all the gory details????

[dprtman09]

and I find this thread very amusing because of your unintentional humour..... You do not seem to get the sarcasm in my post, nor do you really understand what happened between you, your wife and the other man..... Until you do, keep spouting and flaunting your smarts on this thread as it is really quite amusing.....

 

Now to be serious.... Your spouse cheated right in front of you (reminds of a post last month in the Marriage section where a wife suggested a polyamourous relationship with her dance instructor and tried to get her husband to agree to it)...... Open your eyes and ask "Why the f**k would she start an AFFAIR right in front of your face with the your supervisor?" That to me is the most facsinating aspect and you accpeted it or turned a blind eye.... How could you not know??????

 

 

But I do wish you the best of luck.....

 

I like you, TDP ( and that's NOT sarcastic).

Let me clarify the issue. The A began in January of '08. My mom was dieing and I may have been distracted. In February, I began to notice the tell-tale signs in her behavior and I confronted her. She denied everything. Soon after, I knew too much and confronted her again. In the first of several all-night sessions, she admitted it, but said it was no one I knew. By March, I knew who it was without a doubt. I confronted her again without letting her know that and she admitted it. That was the first of 6 times that she promised NC. Withing a few days after each promise, She was at it again. I always found out. I swept the cell records on line and any other search thing I could find. She couldn't make a move that I didn't trip over quickly. She even accidentally called me on her secret pay by use cell phone. She then gave it to me, I locked it, continued to monitor it, and it's still in my dresser srawer--dead. Her friends and me all told her continuously of the disrespect she was bringing herself. Of course, she was showing huge disrespect to me and our marriage. I had three phone conversations with the OM and he could not justify his actions. He didn't wish to. In the last coversation, he said that my W didn't want to save the marriage and was very unhappy. When I told her what she said, she replied "how stupid is he?". She had just told him that she couldn't go on like that any more. He missed the part about wanting to stay with her husband and work things out. His bluff was called and I won. I just wouldn't be f***ed with on my own turf. I told her at one point that I wouldn't leave unless she kicked me out--she didn't. I told her to get a lawyer if she wanted a divorce--she didn't. Keep being TDP. It's not easy to acquire what's right. One gets scorned and insulted, but it's worth it in the long run. She knew what she was doing was wrong, but for some dumb reason, it continued. I, too am TDP. I think I know where you're coming from. It worked for me, it will work for you. I will deal with Space Ritual later, but all who have been kind enough to participate in this thread have given me spins on conflicts in my mind that have helped.

She realized that she could not juggle the resposibilities of her new job, her marriage, and her family and her A. The A had to go. Neither one of us will ever forget, but we must forgive. THAT'S pragmatic.

Edited December 30, 2009 by dprtman09

[dprtman09]

You mentioned your IQ to me because I told you exactly what the score is...and still remains...and that score is Denial 1, Dprtman 0.

And it was not the tone you objected to, it was the truth you objected to.

 

You said your marriage was saved in you initial post. Rather than spouting off about your wish for a grudge match and how stupid we all are why don't you concentrate on that. I simply gave you an alternative reality to your situation (which by your subsequent replies will more likely than not come to fruition).

 

 

I see no further use in any of us pointing out the blatantly obvious to you, because you already know everything so trying to help you is a moot point. Actually what I told you came from experience, and was trying to get you to understand that this whole thing may or may not be over and to warn you of that possibility. Instead you took it as a blast to your honor and have continued to reply to other posters in an obstinate manner. Of course if you are really looking into all the reasons why your wife cheated, this has already been discussed, right?

You came here to seek advice, you got the advice. Just not the advice you were cherry picking for. Because I don't think Al Bundy is a registered user here.

 

But you can still catch him in reruns.

 

 

Best of luck

 

None of us really know each other. All of the information here has been helpful. I am an information gatherer. I am too d**m pragmatic. All of you have been through something. If I have made you think, I'm grateful for the effort you have put into it. You have made me think!!! I am grateful for that. You have made my W think. She is grateful for that. In fact, She has an associate that is going through d-day as we speak. Her A has just come out and we're dicussing it with each other now in light of our experiences. God will always give you what you need if you're paying attention. The answers are all around us and this thread was and is part of my environment. In fact, I cherry picked to find this sight. The intelligence shown here surpasses that of MANY other sites. Sifting through information requires filtering and accepting both what you want to hear and what you don't want to hear. In the long run, though, we will all use what is applicable to us and keep the rest for future reference. None of it is thoughtlessly discarded unless we truly are ignorant. No one deserves less respect than those who are stupid by choice. No one on this thread thus far is in that category. Once again, If I have made anyone think, thank you for thinking. Thank you for making me think and helping me further catalog the sea of emotions that go with this territory.

[dprtman09]

Just for the sake of clarity I am a former BS, ( my first marriage) not an affair partner and stand by what I said about the wayward spouse setting the tone for whether or not the boundries of her marriage being respected.

 

If she didn't respect her marriage and have the decency to be faithful, why should the OM feel responsible for a marraige that isn't even his?

 

My former husbands multiple partners did not incur my wrath. Matter of fact they never even heard a word from me except the one who called the house. They did not have any accountability to me or my marriage. My husband set the tone for whether our marriage should have been respected or not and my issues at that time lay solely with him. Also for the sake of clarity I get flirted with and hit on occasionally and understand that there are men who would have me were I willing to defile my marriage bed and vows..... I demand respect for my marriage and my vows and IT NEVER GOES THERE.

 

You hit the nail on the head. She had the total power at one point to determine the outcome of her behavior. It took someone possibly quite like you to bring that to her attention. Fortunately, that happened. I am still and probably will continue to be hurting for a long time, but I must lead by example. I will never accept justification for what she did, but I am obligated by my vows to stand by her for better or worse. If she loves me, she will see the right in what I am doing and that will help her to avoid future bad decisions. She took a h**l of a risk and could have lost. She had to realize, though, what she could lose in order to decide if it was worth it. I am not perfect (that might be a revelation to some of the participants' opinion of my attitide), but I was right and she was wrong; make no mistake about that. However, I could not force her to see that.

She had to pay attention to her environment to make her decision. You appear to be leading by example. You are not foolish or naive. Wherever you are in your life, you will find what is rightfully yours if I read you right.

[imagine]

Dprtman,

 

As Mr Pragmatic you must realize that many thing are not at your disposal while you are still researching.

 

Reread my previous letter and study the site articles.

 

Things that are not on your agenda are your forthcoming reactions: Right now your giver is working full-time. Soon, your taker will kick in and you will no longer be pragmatic. Your wife should be warned about this event -before it happens.

 

Despite your position now, you may have concern that your marriage is going to work. This condition is normal at approx 6 months after D-day. You might lovebust by means of anger outbursts or disrespectful judgments. You will need to vent -use us or find a friend. Do not take it out on your WW. Please note this does not exclude sharing your negative feeling of the affair.

 

You might have to do more frequent verification checks on WW. Do NOT inform her how you are doing these.

 

Instead of me printing the details I recommend you get the book "Surviving an Affair" Dr Harley.

[dprtman09]

Dprtman,

 

As Mr Pragmatic you must realize that many thing are not at your disposal while you are still researching.

 

Reread my previous letter and study the site articles.

 

Things that are not on your agenda are your forthcoming reactions: Right now your giver is working full-time. Soon, your taker will kick in and you will no longer be pragmatic. Your wife should be warned about this event -before it happens.

 

Despite your position now, you may have concern that your marriage is going to work. This condition is normal at approx 6 months after D-day. You might lovebust by means of anger outbursts or disrespectful judgments. You will need to vent -use us or find a friend. Do not take it out on your WW. Please note this does not exclude sharing your negative feeling of the affair.

 

You might have to do more frequent verification checks on WW. Do NOT inform her how you are doing these.

 

Instead of me printing the details I recommend you get the book "Surviving an Affair" Dr Harley.

 

RE: third paragraph: She has been and it is. You are on the money. She is with me about getting with the people on this site. Whether she agrees with them or not, she recognizes my right to use whatever it takes to get through the pain she caused. Taking it out on her is not a good idea any more. Even though I want to trust her completely again, she has driven innocence out of our M for good. ONE DAY AT A TIME is now the rule. We are striving to create new good memories to at least displace the bad ones of the last year or so.

[Stunned_To_Disbelief]

If the affair were a PA she would not have been having explosive sex with you, it would have been with the supervisor. It is unfortunate that women are human too and when there is a lull in the attention and intimacy we crave at home we are subject to fall for flirting and attention to make us feel alive and sexy again... You said yourself you have an ego and women do too in a sense. We also want to feel sexy and desired and he supplied that temporarily. If you are a happier person in your marriage with your wife and she is happier let this pass... Dont hold it over her head... he feels rejected by her and is not saying anything to keep the doubt in your mind.

 

 

Actually this alone shows it is more likely they were having sex. Many WW tend to have the best sex with their husbands while they're having their affairs. Guilt can be a powerful aphrodesiac, you add to this the OM's "jealousy" about the fact that you were having sex with her during this period and IMHO it was a full on PA. Men "getting it" tend to be possessive of "it"

I am sorry your W chose to do this to your marriage, I too have been thru this, I did not go in blindly & did find out much later that it was worse than I initially thought.

I commend your wanting to save your marriage, and I do wish you well, but don't build the foundation on mis-information. Do your homework, get all the facts.

God Bless

[dprtman09]

If the affair were a PA she would not have been having explosive sex with you, it would have been with the supervisor. It is unfortunate that women are human too and when there is a lull in the attention and intimacy we crave at home we are subject to fall for flirting and attention to make us feel alive and sexy again... You said yourself you have an ego and women do too in a sense. We also want to feel sexy and desired and he supplied that temporarily. If you are a happier person in your marriage with your wife and she is happier let this pass... Dont hold it over her head... he feels rejected by her and is not saying anything to keep the doubt in your mind.

 

 

Actually this alone shows it is more likely they were having sex. Many WW tend to have the best sex with their husbands while they're having their affairs. Guilt can be a powerful aphrodesiac, you add to this the OM's "jealousy" about the fact that you were having sex with her during this period and IMHO it was a full on PA. Men "getting it" tend to be possessive of "it"

I am sorry your W chose to do this to your marriage, I too have been thru this, I did not go in blindly & did find out much later that it was worse than I initially thought.

I commend your wanting to save your marriage, and I do wish you well, but don't build the foundation on mis-information. Do your homework, get all the facts.

God Bless

 

Soon, it will be 2 years since she began the adventure. In that 2 years, I have been back and forth between these 2 points of view over and over again. I have seen in this and other threads that it is perhaps the most "black and white" opinion that everyone has. What I have found is that men, because they look at sex first, tend to think that it is inevitable. Women, though, tend to mirror the fact that they need to be "in love" first. I agree with both points of view because I am a man, but I am in love with a woman, who by her actions has forced me to learn more about women than I ever had. I'm not Alan Alda, but I do see that gender equality is a political and economic issue, not a psychological and emotional one. Knowing my W's history and views of intamacy that HAVE been consistent throughout this time, I agree with elle01. I was the first (and I believe only) man that she slept with in the 7 years after her first husband's untimely death. I was and am honored by that. She trusts very few people and without trust, there is no intimacy with her; one can't even get close. I knew that she was spreading her emotions to him, but not her legs, to put it bluntly. That, in her mind now, was totally out of character for her and was the main reason why she was so bad at covering it up. Her relationship "suicide attempt" simply reflected her inability to initially cope with the usual difficulties of a recently wedded couple. This doesn't make it right. So far, I have discovered that the whole thing was at least as bad as I thought. It makes me shudder when I think that he touched her or visa-versa at all, but that did happen. However, I still believed that there are boundaries over which only I have crossed.

Thank you for helping point this out by quoting elle01. you couldn't have picked a better participant to bounce off of in making your point.

[2sunny]

I like you, TDP ( and that's NOT sarcastic).

Let me clarify the issue. The A began in January of '08. My mom was dieing and I may have been distracted. In February, I began to notice the tell-tale signs in her behavior and I confronted her. She denied everything. Soon after, I knew too much and confronted her again. In the first of several all-night sessions, she admitted it, but said it was no one I knew. By March, I knew who it was without a doubt. I confronted her again without letting her know that and she admitted it. That was the first of 6 times that she promised NC. Withing a few days after each promise, She was at it again. I always found out. I swept the cell records on line and any other search thing I could find. She couldn't make a move that I didn't trip over quickly. She even accidentally called me on her secret pay by use cell phone. She then gave it to me, I locked it, continued to monitor it, and it's still in my dresser srawer--dead. Her friends and me all told her continuously of the disrespect she was bringing herself. Of course, she was showing huge disrespect to me and our marriage. I had three phone conversations with the OM and he could not justify his actions. He didn't wish to. In the last coversation, he said that my W didn't want to save the marriage and was very unhappy. When I told her what she said, she replied "how stupid is he?". She had just told him that she couldn't go on like that any more. He missed the part about wanting to stay with her husband and work things out. His bluff was called and I won. I just wouldn't be f***ed with on my own turf. I told her at one point that I wouldn't leave unless she kicked me out--she didn't. I told her to get a lawyer if she wanted a divorce--she didn't. Keep being TDP. It's not easy to acquire what's right. One gets scorned and insulted, but it's worth it in the long run. She knew what she was doing was wrong, but for some dumb reason, it continued. I, too am TDP. I think I know where you're coming from. It worked for me, it will work for you. I will deal with Space Ritual later, but all who have been kind enough to participate in this thread have given me spins on conflicts in my mind that have helped.

She realized that she could not juggle the resposibilities of her new job, her marriage, and her family and her A. The A had to go. Neither one of us will ever forget, but we must forgive. THAT'S pragmatic.

 

yes SHE showed huge disrespect to you and the M... but you allowed it, again and again.

 

the evidence shows that - she LIES! yep, then you catch her... then she lies again, then you catch her... get it? nothing is changing here - you are just WILLING to put up with things the way they are.

 

you state that YOU won!!!! won what? won a broken marriage that is built on lies, deceit and pretending? i don't call that winning... i call that losing what you THOUGHT was a win. DENIAL - that is where you are... face it - it's the first step in moving forward. you are willing to look at the reality of what the M is - so how can you possibly figure out what to do about it when you aren't calling it what it is.

 

it's a broken marriage - change will do you all a lot of good - if you go on pretending and doing things the same - things will surely look the same or worse in the future.

[Darth Vader]

The first part of what you say explains his lack of responsibility and moral character. The second part is correct in the context of the time it all occurred. Neither one of them will make it clear who pursued who. It's all about admitting wrong behavior and trying to spin it. My W has come much , much further in admitting and analyzing her behavior than the OM ever will. Lastly, no, I was not given that option until she decided to break off the affair. I make this point to all contributors to this thread. She had all the power in the following situation: She had to decide to break the affair. Because I honored my vows all along, I could only wait until she made the right decision. Fortunately for both of us, she did. Once the affair was broken, the power was once gain equally distributed between the two of us. He has no power that we don't give hiom and he knows it.

 

The bolded part above should speak volumes to you about OM and your wife. Something did happen, but, obviously they're not going to tell you! Like someone said, it takes two to tango! People who cheat are very good at keeping secrets, even until death!

 

Your wife said they only kissed, nothing happened (sex), well that's what's called "trickle truth", others would call it "damage control". Think about it, how many WS's have lied to stay in a marriage, especially for financal reasons. I can be wrong, but, at least consider the possibility.

 

I wouldn't let your wife read any more of your posts, if I were you. She may try to manipulate you or try to explain away what people are posting to throw you off. Believe me, I've seen it happen more than once here at LS. If she was still having an affair with OM, she'd be doing these things.

 

By the way, sometimes there is no reason why people cheat, sometimes a WS just wants a little strange!

 

I hope they didn't screw each other.

 

Personally, Yes I think your wife was riding your Boss, she still may be riding him, or they are just laying low until you drop your guard only to resume again. I say this because there's too many things that just don't add up like the bolded statement above.

 

You're not stupid, don't let her treat you as though you are.

[dprtman09]

yes SHE showed huge disrespect to you and the M... but you allowed it, again and again.

 

the evidence shows that - she LIES! yep, then you catch her... then she lies again, then you catch her... get it? nothing is changing here - you are just WILLING to put up with things the way they are.

 

you state that YOU won!!!! won what? won a broken marriage that is built on lies, deceit and pretending? i don't call that winning... i call that losing what you THOUGHT was a win. DENIAL - that is where you are... face it - it's the first step in moving forward. you are willing to look at the reality of what the M is - so how can you possibly figure out what to do about it when you aren't calling it what it is.

 

it's a broken marriage - change will do you all a lot of good - if you go on pretending and doing things the same - things will surely look the same or worse in the future.

 

2sunny and Space Ritual: One camp. I've noticed a division of opinion in this thread. I've appreciated it. The black and white of life is often overshadowed by the grey (oxymoron type statement). No, I'm not calling anyone a moron, it's just that I have "more on" the ball than you and Space think I have. You two must have really been jacked! First, I have explained elsewhere in the thread why I am certain that no intercourse took place. Second, there is nary a minute of unaccounted for time in my W's life any more. Whether by design or by accident, we always know where we are and who we're with. I have been over and over the evidence (plentiful) and her stories over the last year. there are no more inconsistencies left. Fact is, she knows every suspicion I've had and has had to answer to them in many ways even since NC. Her relationship with the OM was doomed because of the basis of deception, I told both of them that. I did not turn a blind eye to her actions, but I did not turn a blind eye to the marriage either. The grey overshadows the black and white. We all have a right to keep what we think is good in our lives. My W cheated. She knows it. But even when she is aware of a given post on this site, she's not adjusting her approach to fit the idea the post may give me. She was exposed to both camps during her "adventure". She chose the grey. If God can forgive, who are we to think we know more? By the way, just to be politically correct, I do realize that one may not believe in God. But then one could say that we should have the ability to reason outside the box if we don't need a supreme being to help us.

 

One of my guidelines in conflict: Don't attack the person, attack the situation or what they say.

 

[THE BOX]<--->[ME]

[dprtman09]

The bolded part above should speak volumes to you about OM and your wife. Something did happen, but, obviously they're not going to tell you! Like someone said, it takes two to tango! People who cheat are very good at keeping secrets, even until death!

 

Your wife said they only kissed, nothing happened (sex), well that's what's called "trickle truth", others would call it "damage control". Think about it, how many WS's have lied to stay in a marriage, especially for financal reasons. I can be wrong, but, at least consider the possibility.

 

I wouldn't let your wife read any more of your posts, if I were you. She may try to manipulate you or try to explain away what people are posting to throw you off. Believe me, I've seen it happen more than once here at LS. If she was still having an affair with OM, she'd be doing these things.

 

By the way, sometimes there is no reason why people cheat, sometimes a WS just wants a little strange!

 

I hope they didn't screw each other.

 

Personally, Yes I think your wife was riding your Boss, she still may be riding him, or they are just laying low until you drop your guard only to resume again. I say this because there's too many things that just don't add up like the bolded statement above.

 

You're not stupid, don't let her treat you as though you are.

 

I said it takes two to tango, and the reason why was because many people are trying to blame this totally on my W, leaving the OM innocent. To what degree they tangoed still seems to be the vicarious thought of some of the posters. By the way, he was also her boss.

 

Fact is, she knew that she could get the house and our son more likely than not no matter what she did. Courts are like that. We're still married. I would have more financial reasons to stay married than her.

Ohio is not a community property state. I've been divorced (not for cheating) and lost a lot.

 

As for her reading any of these posts, check out my reply to 2sunny above. Also understand that I need to be truthful with her if I intend to lead this marriage by example. She knows I will hurt for a long time and I will use any and all tools available (within reason) to get through it. She knows better than to stop me and I'm smart enough (thank you) to know if she's using my tools against me (no blue remarks, please).

 

Whereas I would not put it past the OM to pick up with her again if given the chance (just to prove me wrong), the fact that her last words to him were "f*** off", leads me to believe that she won't give him the chance.

 

If you total up the time they spent together on the phone or in person over an eight month period, it came to about 3-4 days. When I gave that little tidbit to my W, it dawned on her that he was controlling the entire "relationship"--NOT what she can live with. That, in turn, made her realize that she could not go on letting our relationship get out of our control.

 

You're not stupid--You can see the grey in the world if you just step a little further up or get a bit older, whichever applies. For you, there is hope.

[2sunny]

her willingness to lie and cover up are still facts that you have stated.

 

only faced with HAVING to fess up - did she... this is not consider being truthful or honest - this is considered sneaky - on;y if backed into a corner does she tell?

 

i'm glad you find solice in that with her - me? not so much, never would, never could...

[Darth Vader]

I said it takes two to tango, and the reason why was because many people are trying to blame this totally on my W, leaving the OM innocent. To what degree they tangoed still seems to be the vicarious thought of some of the posters. By the way, he was also her boss.

 

Fact is, she knew that she could get the house and our son more likely than not no matter what she did. Courts are like that. We're still married. I would have more financial reasons to stay married than her.

Ohio is not a community property state. I've been divorced (not for cheating) and lost a lot.

 

As for her reading any of these posts, check out my reply to 2sunny above. Also understand that I need to be truthful with her if I intend to lead this marriage by example. She knows I will hurt for a long time and I will use any and all tools available (within reason) to get through it. She knows better than to stop me and I'm smart enough (thank you) to know if she's using my tools against me (no blue remarks, please).

 

Whereas I would not put it past the OM to pick up with her again if given the chance (just to prove me wrong), the fact that her last words to him were "f*** off", leads me to believe that she won't give him the chance.

 

If you total up the time they spent together on the phone or in person over an eight month period, it came to about 3-4 days. When I gave that little tidbit to my W, it dawned on her that he was controlling the entire "relationship"--NOT what she can live with. That, in turn, made her realize that she could not go on letting our relationship get out of our control.

 

You're not stupid--You can see the grey in the world if you just step a little further up or get a bit older, whichever applies. For you, there is hope.

 

Actually, I prefer the Dark side!!!!!! LOL:p:lmao: Of course there's hope, there's hope for everyone.

 

But, seriously, people here on LS are trying to help you, they don't want to see you right back in here in a few months or years having just found out that "OMG they did sleep together, they were right, etc."

 

Believe me, I've seen it in here enough to know. It reminds me of the Tiger Woods thingy, a simple accident revealed all! And he has or rather had millions many times over, and he still couldn't keep it a secret! It never ceases to amaze me how things like infidelity can be found out in the most unusual ways. This paragraph is more directed towards your wife BTW, (since she reads these posts), but it should give you a heads up as well. If she did in fact ride her Boss, it is inevidable that it will come to light, so she might as well fess up now and stop wasting your years that would be better spent on someone else that you could trust and would be faithful and love you. (I had to get that point out)

 

 

Fact is, she knew that she could get the house and our son more likely than not no matter what she did.

 

This part disturbs me for some reason, damn strange.......... It looks like she had an agenda set up. Yes, the courts are crooked, shoot, the courts are crooks themselves, too bad women know it. Makes me want to stay single, forever! Well, almost.

[2sunny]

Neither one of them will make it clear who pursued who. It's all about admitting wrong behavior and trying to spin it.

 

this is disturbing to me as well... she was/is? still willing to cover up and be sneaky with omissions and half truths? what is the gain in that, certainly not any gain for the best interest of the M. she is willing to save face in order to try to save the M... is that good ENOUGH for you? she admits only when backed into the corner, how do you trust when that is the case? it's simply not good enough - you are settling for half truths and half measures which will get you nothing. if nothing is what you want - then that is good enough.

 

omissions and half truths or moving away from answering a question are still blatant forms of lying. how far is she willing to play this cover up game. if she's unwilling to be totally, brutally honest - then the M will suffer... maybe not now - but down the road it will show in forms of being disconnected, absent, and emotionally unavailable because of the guilt and shame from the cover up.

 

honesty = freedom... how free do you both want to be? a M can't be based upon lies and deceit, that is just not possible for a healthy M. it can survive, it just won't flourish - big difference... get my drift?

 

i hope your W is reading - she owes you more truth than what she's given.

[Darth Vader]

 

this is disturbing to me as well... she was/is? still willing to cover up and be sneaky with omissions and half truths? what is the gain in that, certainly not any gain for the best interest of the M. she is willing to save face in order to try to save the M... is that good ENOUGH for you? she admits only when backed into the corner, how do you trust when that is the case? it's simply not good enough - you are settling for half truths and half measures which will get you nothing. if nothing is what you want - then that is good enough.

 

omissions and half truths or moving away from answering a question are still blatant forms of lying. how far is she willing to play this cover up game. if she's unwilling to be totally, brutally honest - then the M will suffer... maybe not now - but down the road it will show in forms of being disconnected, absent, and emotionally unavailable because of the guilt and shame from the cover up.

 

honesty = freedom... how free do you both want to be? a M can't be based upon lies and deceit, that is just not possible for a healthy M. it can survive, it just won't flourish - big difference... get my drift?

 

i hope your W is reading - she owes you more truth than what she's given.

 

 

I think I see where you're going with this Sunny, Half-Truths are still lying!

 

If she's telling half truths, even by omission, obviously she's hiding something!

 

Seems awfully hokey to me!

 

She knows we're onto her, how much is she trying to convince you that we're the one's who are crazy, or don't know what we're talking about? I have to wonder if or how much she's manipulating what we're saying to you here. This is why it's not good to have both the BS and the WS on here posting or reading at the same time, too much can happen, too much is revealed! This should've been your place exclusively, but, she may have found this place in time.

[Space Ritual]

2sunny and Space Ritual: One camp. I've noticed a division of opinion in this thread. I've appreciated it. The black and white of life is often overshadowed by the grey (oxymoron type statement). No, I'm not calling anyone a moron, it's just that I have "more on" the ball than you and Space think I have. You two must have really been jacked! First, I have explained elsewhere in the thread why I am certain that no intercourse took place. Second, there is nary a minute of unaccounted for time in my W's life any more. Whether by design or by accident, we always know where we are and who we're with. I have been over and over the evidence (plentiful) and her stories over the last year. there are no more inconsistencies left. Fact is, she knows every suspicion I've had and has had to answer to them in many ways even since NC. Her relationship with the OM was doomed because of the basis of deception, I told both of them that. I did not turn a blind eye to her actions, but I did not turn a blind eye to the marriage either. The grey overshadows the black and white. We all have a right to keep what we think is good in our lives. My W cheated. She knows it. But even when she is aware of a given post on this site, she's not adjusting her approach to fit the idea the post may give me. She was exposed to both camps during her "adventure". She chose the grey. If God can forgive, who are we to think we know more? By the way, just to be politically correct, I do realize that one may not believe in God. But then one could say that we should have the ability to reason outside the box if we don't need a supreme being to help us.

 

One of my guidelines in conflict: Don't attack the person, attack the situation or what they say.

 

[THE BOX]<--->[ME]

 

 

(Shakes head).......I don't think we can be sure that the wife is not writing some of these replies.

[dprtman09]

(Shakes head).......I don't think we can be sure that the wife is not writing some of these replies.

 

If "the wife" knows what is in this thread, it's because I tell her after the fact. She has no password to get in. I told her that if she wants to participate, she can, under my supervision, but thus far we only discuss entries that I choose to discuss (including yours) in the light of what truths may have yet to be discovered. This is one of MY tools for recovery. She has her ways also (and it doesn't include the OM!). I am not in this site to decieve anyone. Lies won't do it. The truth will set you free.

[Chingaling]

If "the wife" knows what is in this thread, it's because I tell her after the fact. She has no password to get in. I told her that if she wants to participate, she can, under my supervision, but thus far we only discuss entries that I choose to discuss (including yours) in the light of what truths may have yet to be discovered. This is one of MY tools for recovery. She has her ways also (and it doesn't include the OM!). I am not in this site to decieve anyone. Lies won't do it. The truth will set you free.

 

 

Um, did I read this correctly? "under my supervision"???? You "tell her after the fact"? Entries that "you choose to discuss"?

 

Up until this post I thought perhaps yourself and your wife had re-kindled your relationship, but your phrasing makes me think that you have assumed the supervisor position in the relationship. In a marriage, at least to my mind, NOBODY gets to be the supervisor. You may be crowing now that your relationship has been saved, but if you are going to give her attitude like that, I assure you that she will resent you for both the continued punishment and treating her like the subserviant in the marriage. That's just wrong.

 

Do you think that your beautiful, accomplished and intelligent wife is going to take that for long? No. Do you think perhaps the OM spoke to her like an equal, which was both flattering and made him attractive to her? Yes. Do you think that your pretty little wife won't walk once she gets her eggs gathered into her basket? Because now I am pretty sure she will....

 

I simply cannot believe that you actually posted those phrases. Amazing.

[Dexter Morgan]

:mad:My wife, who I love without question, had an emotional affair with her supervisor (who also happened to be my supervisor at the time). He took advantage of his ability to be in proximity to her as a way to convince her that she should date him, which she did.

 

He definitely misused his position. BUT, your wife is the one that willingly dated him.

 

Your wife doesn't get a free pass because of the OM's status.

 

 

At this point, I want to make it clear that she made bad choices, too. She has admitted that! All of the info I've seen about EM's fits our respective situations to a tee. I have found understanding of all that she told me about how it began and how hard it was to end.

 

you found understanding? forgive me, but that translates to me like she is playing you like a fiddle.

 

 

The deception was there, the destruction of trust was there, the ugly accusations and counter accusations were there, etc., etc. I was a mess when I found out. However, I was fortunate enough to contact the OM during the affair. I asked him what about the A made him think HE was right. He only replied, "I'm single". I replied, "But she's not".

 

although you have every right to be angry at the other man, and he does have the responsibility of doing unto others as he would have done unto him.....it is your wife that needs to be held accountable here.

 

 

Now, it's time to get to the point. Our marriage is saved! My W IS the woman I married! She has gone through the steps to regain my trust

 

really? with that I would have to assume that she is a complete open book, she comes right home after work, etc..etc. Oh, and also, has your wife quit her job or is she looking for another one? Because if she is not at least looking, then she is NOT going through one major step to right her wrong.

 

if you want to just up and forgive her and not hold her accountable to do what needs to be done, then that is your call. but if she is still working with this guy, in my opinion, nothing she has done up to this point makes a difference, UNTIL she is not around him on a daily basis.

 

 

and I am making every effort to do so. IT IS NOT EASY! Can any man out there who is single and has been in an EM with a married woman tell me what goes on in his head?

 

again, you have every right to be angry at him...but it is your wife's state of mind an what went on in her head that is all that matters.

 

 

I need closure. Does anyone have the nerve? My wife and I recently and jointly tried to get the OM to at least own up, but all he does is reply that it was all her fault and any contact was initiated by her.

 

what difference does it make what the OM "owns up" to? Your wife willingly dated him. She is the one you need to deal with. Be angry at the other man, cuss his ass out. but at the end of the day his words to you are meaningless.

 

 

Cell records don't lie and I still have them. It takes two! There is evidence that she contacted him after she claims to have had NC, but now there has been NC for about 2 months minimum.

 

is she still working with him???

 

 

I can tell that she is back and I haven't been happier in a while.

I will hurt for a while yet and my W knows this. She lets me bring things up and I promised not to be accusatory.

 

in other words, she wants no consequences to her actions. she wants you to hold in your feelings and not say what you really want to say.

 

 

We have set rules and we're following them.

 

what would those be?

 

 

To be honest, I could, but won't, thank the OM for making my W understand where we belong. I have worked on myself, too. The fun part is that he'll never know what he couldn't have

 

but he COULD have had her. remember, she dated him, and don't think for a minute that he hasn't had her. not saying this to get your blood boiling, just don't be a fool. Your wife is a liar by default. My guess is she lied about it being a physical affair because she knows that would send most men over the top. also if it was physical, she knows that it would cast a label onto her as well that is different from simply an emotional affair.

 

but as far as thanking the OM? go ahead. nothing wrong with that. I thanked my OM for taking my x-wife off my hands. they are now each others problem, and I've heard that is exactly the case. Sucks to be them.