I have no sympathy for substance abuse of any kind. There is always a choice.

[Zeta4PhiSius]

You know EXACTLY what you're getting into when you take that first pill.

 

You know damn well what it will result in when you continue.

 

You have a choice every step of the way to not do it anymore.

 

I am spending my Christmas morning waiting for my drug addict of an 87-year-old Grandmother getting "ready" which consists of her screaming, yelling, and fighting my mom every step of the way because she's so f****** selfish she doesn't give a **** about anything, anybody, or any part of life aside from her drugs or who can "help" her. I used to like her but because of all this s*** she puts us through on a daily basis I'm ashamed to say that I hate her (I know you're not "supposed" to hate your family but in this case I make an exception) and don't want anything else to DO WITH HER once I'm finally out of this place.

 

That's why I have no sympathy because you're not a victim- you're a blood sucking emotional vampire that can stop anytime you take the choice to. You just have to want it badly enough to put your selfish behavior aside to think about someone else in your life for once and what your behavior is doing to them.

 

For the record, I'm only staying where I live for a couple more months or so when I finally get my own place.

 

There. I'm done. My venting for the day.

 

Kudos to all of you who have taken the choice to stop for good and resume a life of normalcy after the hell you've been through. You are the ones who deserve the accolades and all the good things life can throw at you.

[Shouldacouldawoulda]

While I agree that an addict can be absolute hell and misery to deal with and that addicts have to make a choice to quit, some people do become addicted after surgeries or medical procedures without even realizing they are becoming addicted. Opiates affect your brain chemistry to the point that your brain actually thinks it is dying without the substance (as other drugs do as well).

 

It is horrible to live with or be around an addict, especially one who is in WD. If you and your family have supported your Grandmother and offered her help, you're right. It's probably time to cut your losses. Maybe if you give her an ultimatum, it could be a catalyst for her to change.

 

Addicts are not victims, but neither are those of us who maintain relationships with addicts. We have to set healthy boundaries for ourselves which can be incredibly hard to do. It took me 7 years to finally move on.

 

I'm sorry your Christmas has been so crummy. I hope it gets better for you.

[Shouldacouldawoulda]

Shoot, meant to ask, could your gmother have an underlying mental issue such as depression or be bipolar? A lot of addicts turn to drugs to self-medicate.

[Zeta4PhiSius]

I agree we're not. That's why I'm making changes and getting the heck out.

 

Mom tried getting her off a particular medication because the Pharmacy ran out of one that she had and wouldn't have gotten it in for much longer than normal. She went to the extreme deep end and kept screaming "Help me" and "Oh, my God" and all that crap in the most grating whining voice on the planet. She's too far gone mentally to care about anything but her pills. Ultimatums won't help. You even try or you do anything that goes against getting her "help" or her "pills" she goes "Damn you, damn you" for the rest of the night repeatedly until she goes to bed.

 

Nope...nothing bi-polar about this. If there were there'd at least be a positive, pleasant side and there'd probably be something that's decent about living here. But there's nothing but a big black endless chasm of darkness in this place. :mad: :mad:

[Jade 02]

While I agree that an addict can be absolute hell and misery to deal with and that addicts have to make a choice to quit, some people do become addicted after surgeries or medical procedures without even realizing they are becoming addicted. Opiates affect your brain chemistry to the point that your brain actually thinks it is dying without the substance (as other drugs do as well).

 

It is horrible to live with or be around an addict, especially one who is in WD. If you and your family have supported your Grandmother and offered her help, you're right. It's probably time to cut your losses. Maybe if you give her an ultimatum, it could be a catalyst for her to change.

 

Addicts are not victims, but neither are those of us who maintain relationships with addicts. We have to set healthy boundaries for ourselves which can be incredibly hard to do. It took me 7 years to finally move on.

 

I'm sorry your Christmas has been so crummy. I hope it gets better for you.

 

 

Tottaly agree!!!

[melodymatters]

Jeez, at 87 she is also more than likely suffering from at least some stage of dementia which is a major personality changer in itself.

 

I guess I'm being ageist, because I would have a different answer for someone younger.

 

Give her her damn pills and let her enjoy her last few years in la la land !

[threebyfate]

I'm being ageist, as well. Your average 87 year old is mentally/emotionally a 5 year old. Being a drug addict is the least of her worries.

 

My next question is why is she being forced to get "ready" for Christmas? Just leave her be and when she's ready, she'll be ready. Don't wait for her, just do your family thing.

 

If she runs out screaming at why people didn't wait, suggest she be ready sooner.

[trail_blazers_7]

i feel like i need to chime in here.

addiction isn't something that can be stopped at the user's leisure. there's a multitude of factors that play into addiction. brain chemistry/predisposition to addiction/depression/even anxiety.

it isn't something that's chosen, it's something that the addict is driven to.

i myself am a recovering alcoholic/heroin addict

i've also been diagnosed with severe depression and anxiety, i spent 3 days in a mental institution after having a sever nervous breakdown.

it was all an attempt to make myself feel better, and to a degree it did. but an intervention by my family made me realize that it caused more pain than relief

i feel very badly for you, your grandmother, and your family; but she wont be able to stop until all of her family, you included, help her

you don't know how long she, or anyone in your family has left on earth. don't spend what precious time you do have together hating her

[Jade 02]

Addiction IS a disease,and the only way someone will get clean is if they WANT to ,otherwise it is pure misery for EVERYONE AROUND! At any age.

 

And thanks to the Dr.s they made a percentage of heroin addicts,who usually turn to methadone(opiate replacement) which is one off the worst drugs to get off of besides what 2sunny told me,booze,and benzo's

[2sunny]

i would suggest the OP learn more about this disease.

[Devil Inside]

First of all let me say that I am so sorry that you are in such a difficult space. It is agonizing to have to watch a loved one in the struggles of addiction. It can be hell to be the target of emotional and verbal abuse as the addict tries to get their fix.

 

As someone that has both personal and professional experience with addiction and recovery let me tell you, it is no picnic. You stated that everyone should know what may happen when they take that first pill...well...sure. So you have never had a sip of alcohol? Or a bite of a cheeseburger? Or played a video game or slot machine? Or had sex? There are many things that can become the addictive substance, and it often times someone does not know that they have the genetic predisposition for addiction.

 

Now, once someone is hooked there are things they can do to recover. However, it is very, very, difficult. One of the hardest things you can ever do. I should know, I was hooked to meth...and I got off, but let me tell you, it was not easy.

 

As for prescription medication. That can be a beast. It starts off as something prescribed by your physician...so how can it be wrong. Then, especially with some of the pain killers, you get on this never ending cycle of pain and medication withdrawal. It is actually an epidemic.

 

I would recommend that you and your mother speak with a family therapist. Maybe the social worker at the hospital where your grandmother was a patient can recommend somebody. It will be helpful to gain some perspective through some psycho education. It will also be important to have some support as you set your limits.

 

Good luck to you.

[Tayla]

First of all let me say that I am so sorry that you are in such a difficult space. It is agonizing to have to watch a loved one in the struggles of addiction. It can be hell to be the target of emotional and verbal abuse as the addict tries to get their fix.

 

As someone that has both personal and professional experience with addiction and recovery let me tell you, it is no picnic. You stated that everyone should know what may happen when they take that first pill...well...sure. So you have never had a sip of alcohol? Or a bite of a cheeseburger? Or played a video game or slot machine? Or had sex? There are many things that can become the addictive substance, and it often times someone does not know that they have the genetic predisposition for addiction.

 

Now, once someone is hooked there are things they can do to recover. However, it is very, very, difficult. One of the hardest things you can ever do. I should know, I was hooked to meth...and I got off, but let me tell you, it was not easy.

 

As for prescription medication. That can be a beast. It starts off as something prescribed by your physician...so how can it be wrong. Then, especially with some of the pain killers, you get on this never ending cycle of pain and medication withdrawal. It is actually an epidemic.

 

I would recommend that you and your mother speak with a family therapist. Maybe the social worker at the hospital where your grandmother was a patient can recommend somebody. It will be helpful to gain some perspective through some psycho education. It will also be important to have some support as you set your limits.

 

Good luck to you.

 

I could not have said it any better. You spoke from experience and realism.

On the other side of the coin is a wonderful example by the OP of how it does tear at the family and they are in fact a "By product" of the disease. Unfortunately at young ages there is little choice in staying. The poster seems to be making some accurate statements of how it affects those around the addict. The Family members are void of empathy as well stated by the poster and rightly so. THey cant possibly have that kind of kindheartedness because its been blinded by the actions of the addict. It is a disease that affects the family and whether they agree or not, they carry every symptom that is associated by the disease. Selfishness, no trust and low faith in the human race. So I get both sides and to top this off....The OP needs to heal from all this thru being educated and gaining an outside understanding. My personal hope for the OP is to heal and thru that, come to accept that the addiction doesn't make the person it takes a person hostage.

[dazzle22]

Well, I can't speak for your grandmother, don't know what her problem is, has she always been a "mean and drama" person? Some people are, and they get worse as they age.

 

However, invariably I have found that addiction to drugs and alcohol tends to be an attempt to self medicate a very mentally/emotionally painful condition, such as depression, bipolar illness, anxiety, PTSD, insomnia or chronic pain. When I find out a patient is having a problem with a substance, my first question always is, "What painful or unpleasant emotional state are you trying to medicate with _____?"...

[Devil Inside]

I could not have said it any better. You spoke from experience and realism.

On the other side of the coin is a wonderful example by the OP of how it does tear at the family and they are in fact a "By product" of the disease. Unfortunately at young ages there is little choice in staying. The poster seems to be making some accurate statements of how it affects those around the addict. The Family members are void of empathy as well stated by the poster and rightly so. THey cant possibly have that kind of kindheartedness because its been blinded by the actions of the addict. It is a disease that affects the family and whether they agree or not, they carry every symptom that is associated by the disease. Selfishness, no trust and low faith in the human race. So I get both sides and to top this off....The OP needs to heal from all this thru being educated and gaining an outside understanding. My personal hope for the OP is to heal and thru that, come to accept that the addiction doesn't make the person it takes a person hostage.

 

 

It is so true Tayla...addiction truly is a family disease...everybody is affected. The OP definitely has to set limits, get out, and live a life that is their own. Actually I forgot to mention that Narconon or Alanon meetings would be very helpful. They are support groups for friends and family of addicts. You will find others that struggle with the same issues you do.

 

My hope for you (OP) would be that you find a way to have a balanced view of this topic. I do not advocate that anyone play the victim...we all have to be accountable for our actions...whether an addict or not...however, I do know that nobody gets better without the support and help of an empathetic support system. I would never have survived the personal hell that was my addiction without the love and support of my family, friends, and professional helpers.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Devil Inside

[Zeta4PhiSius]

It is so true Tayla...addiction truly is a family disease...everybody is affected. The OP definitely has to set limits, get out, and live a life that is their own. Actually I forgot to mention that Narconon or Alanon meetings would be very helpful. They are support groups for friends and family of addicts. You will find others that struggle with the same issues you do.

Thank you for the support everyone.

 

While I would love to set limits - I live in the living room and have no way to avoid the family fights or anything of the sort - no privacy at all. Even saying one thing politely that resembles "please stop the screaming for a little bit..." and she goes off the deep end yelling at me "damn you" for the rest of the night. Even being nice to her yields extremely hostile glares and nasty words "I clean up after you all the time in the bathroom" (which is NOT true - I have never ONCE left anything to actually clean UP).

 

I also realize what a grip that getting into this crap can have on you and I do apologize for my earlier outburst. I'm angry nearly all the time here because I can't stand all of the fights and there is nothing that actually resembles fun. If I try to go have fun my day is spoiled by having to come back here. I spend most of my free time sleeping because I can't stand being awake where I am and everything that happens in the course of the day. I'd far rather be at work 24/7 than be here. At least then I can laugh.

 

I'm already on my way to getting out though. I'm saving up for a new apartment that I will be moving into next month (man I can't WAIT) and I'll be able to finally get and keep myself in a better frame of mind after living in hell for 2+ years.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Zeta4PhiSius

[Zeta4PhiSius]

dazzle 22 wrote:

Well, I can't speak for your grandmother, don't know what her problem is, has she always been a "mean and drama" person? Some people are, and they get worse as they age.

 

However, invariably I have found that addiction to drugs and alcohol tends to be an attempt to self medicate a very mentally/emotionally painful condition, such as depression, bipolar illness, anxiety, PTSD, insomnia or chronic pain. When I find out a patient is having a problem with a substance, my first question always is, "What painful or unpleasant emotional state are you trying to medicate with _____?"...

As far back as I can remember my grandmother has always been a bitter person. I can remember when I was much younger (younger than 10) her talking about the next door neighbor as being a "witch" when I thought the next door neighbor was pretty nice. Both of them had always been cordial and polite with me. This is not the only incident - there are a number of others. She's on about 20 different medications and I still can't understand or figure out why she needs more than one pill for her blood pressure and something else.

 

She's always had hell to say about my mom like "That fool woman" or whatever because she didn't turn herself into a rich college success like my uncle did. She put my grandfather through hell with screaming and screeching at him about the littlest, inconsequential things - the same thing she now does with my mom and all of us. I'm not just basing this on hearsay - I've heard it before when I lived here several years ago when my grandfather was alive. He died 3 years ago from a stroke.

 

She's also the type that will put you down if she doesn't like what you got for her one iota. I got her a DVD set featuring documentary-style information of her favorite music performer this past Christmas and she feigned "liking it" at first and then wanted something else that I already had. Never even bothered to watch it. She's also NEVER HAPPY with what you do for her or what you get her. Get her something from fast food and she just doesn't eat it or she'll take 20 minutes to decide what she wants to eat and then when you bring it home she just doesn't bother with it. This is just the tip of the iceberg of what she puts all of us through.

 

Funny how life takes the great, wonderful people and the nasty mean people live the longest isn't it?

Edited January 8, 2010 by Zeta4PhiSius

[dazzle22]

I suspected she was a nasty biddy from what u said. Yes, too bad these nasty old witches have so many meds that massively prolong their lives..

[doushenka]

You know EXACTLY what you're getting into when you take that first pill.

 

Unless you were out of your mind when your doctor gave it to you.

 

I wasn't given a chance to make an informed decision. Here, they said, take these little white pills. You'll feel better. Didn't tell me benzodiazepines were physically addicting and that the withdrawal syndrome would be worse than my panic attacks.

 

I was seventeen, terrified, and suicidal. I was unable to consent.

[carhill]

I'm already on my way to getting out though.

 

Good decision. You're young. No need to expose yourself to this kind of toxicity if you don't have to. Someone mentioned boundaries. Wise advice, IMO. I finally had to institutionalize my mother or go insane myself. She's in a locked facility now. Someone today asked me if I wanted to buy a lottery ticket. I told her I won the lottery. I'm still alive and sane.

 

I hope whoever is left to deal with grandma sees the light too. There are likely ways of mitigating some of the issues, but she's probably going to be a handful until she's dead. Fact of life. My sympathies....

[sedgwick]

Sure, you can choose not to use the first time, or maybe even the first few times. But I guarantee you no addict living in the streets and hustling to get high is "choosing" it anymore.

[Clep]

I would strongly recommend going to an al-anon meeting. There you can learn about the "disease" of addiction, how you can aid in the afflicted gaining some sanity and quitting, as well as gaining some sanity for yourself.

 

It is a road that cannot be truly understood by another until they experience it, and the same goes for the addicted.

 

"Addiction is like dominos, it knocks the addicted down and then they knock the people down around them". It is a family disease and all involved require treatment for it. It is hard to understand, but we each have our role. Remove your role from the equation and you can make a difference. I have been in shoes similar to yours and I didn't wear them well. Thanks to Al-anon I now wear a new pair of shoes, and they fit me well. They also kicked my ex in the ass in an oh so gentle way, and it worked.

 

I wish you the very best.

[You Go Girl]

It's true that the addiction takes over the addicts life. They ruin their lives and those around them.

I don't go the pity route for the addict. There is a point where the addict KNOWS they have a problem, and they just don't care enough to do anything about it. They'd rather keep the status quo and get their fix as long as possible.

I do believe that people with childhood trauma are more susceptible to becoming addicts. At the same time, I won't play the pity game with them.

I think OP would despise Al-anon. Those meetings are all about fixing yourself and asking a higher power to do it. Really those meetings boil down to becoming more religious. No asking the addict to change their behavior at all, instead focus on the guilt of that you, the victim of an addict, is not perfect either so...stop being angry with the addict, and focus on your own flaws. And that is exactly what they do there.

 

OP--you're doing the best thing possible for yourself. Taking control of your own life and doing what is needed to make it possible for you to be independent so that you don't have to live in that situation any longer. Good for you! Keep it up, and don't let small obstacles stand in the way.

[Clep]

There is a point where the addict KNOWS they have a problem, and they just don't care enough to do anything about it. I won't play the pity game with them.

 

I think OP would despise Al-anon. Those meetings are all about fixing yourself and asking a higher power to do it. Really those meetings boil down to becoming more religious. No asking the addict to change their behavior at all, instead focus on the guilt of that you, the victim of an addict, is not perfect either so...stop being angry with the addict, and focus on your own flaws. And that is exactly what they do there.

 

 

I think they care greatly and despise the choices they make. The disease of their mind does not allow them to believe there are choices. That to me isn't pity, but an understanding of the situation. Out of the numerous AA speakers I have heard, none of them are currently looking for pity, just sharing their stories in an effort to let the still afflicted know they are not alone.

 

I do not think anyone is in the position to decide what is right or wrong for another, nor what another would like or dislike.

 

I am not religious at all nor is my ex. I am now spiritual which is quite different from religion.

[You Go Girl]

I think they care greatly and despise the choices they make. The disease of their mind does not allow them to believe there are choices. That to me isn't pity, but an understanding of the situation. Out of the numerous AA speakers I have heard, none of them are currently looking for pity, just sharing their stories in an effort to let the still afflicted know they are not alone.

 

I do not think anyone is in the position to decide what is right or wrong for another, nor what another would like or dislike.

 

I am not religious at all nor is my ex. I am now spiritual which is quite different from religion.

 

Well I'm heated from being in a situation that makes me upset and angry every day of my life, so I'm biased, and I realize it.

I haven't heard an AA speaker. They tell me the meetings are closed. Maybe I'll go to one and not reveal I'm not an alcoholic myself, just so that I can hear someone who actually is trying to do something about their situation, unlike my H. That alone might help me feel better, even though it's not my H who is one of those who are trying to do something about the problem.

But, if I go with that he might despise the choices he makes--then I have to forgive him, and that thought brings out the pity for him and then I think oh but I love him, he doesn't mean to hurt me, and then I'll continue to live with this, and geezus I don't want to continue living with this disease anymore.

Well, he said he'd seek a therapist back before Thanksgiving...it's almost March, and he's done nothing, and I've reminded him since then too. So March will be my month to move out. It's also been 6 years of this.

I know you've experienced the pain Clep--I know you understand. But it's also behind you now. It's so much worse when it's still here and now!

I'm glad to see you composed, not angry anymore. One day I'll get there!

And yes, pushing the spirituality as part of the program isn't a bad thing...too bad the meetings near me were so clearly christian and I could see the look in the christian women's eyes that I wasn't part of the clan.

Finding the right meeting is important, they're not all the same crowd. When I said that I was agnostic, that I like some ideas in Buddhism, that I like christian morality of right and wrong, I felt like a leper in the room, I could read it in their eyes. We discussed step 3 and they all proclaimed what good christians they are. That was perhaps the unfortunate result of the meetings near me.

OP--did you get that apartment?

[Clep]

Well I'm heated from being in a situation that makes me upset and angry every day of my life, so I'm biased, and I realize it.

I haven't heard an AA speaker. They tell me the meetings are closed. Maybe I'll go to one and not reveal I'm not an alcoholic myself, just so that I can hear someone who actually is trying to do something about their situation, unlike my H. That alone might help me feel better, even though it's not my H who is one of those who are trying to do something about the problem.

But, if I go with that he might despise the choices he makes--then I have to forgive him, and that thought brings out the pity for him and then I think oh but I love him, he doesn't mean to hurt me, and then I'll continue to live with this, and geezus I don't want to continue living with this disease anymore.

Well, he said he'd seek a therapist back before Thanksgiving...it's almost March, and he's done nothing, and I've reminded him since then too. So March will be my month to move out. It's also been 6 years of this.

I know you've experienced the pain Clep--I know you understand. But it's also behind you now. It's so much worse when it's still here and now!

I'm glad to see you composed, not angry anymore. One day I'll get there!

And yes, pushing the spirituality as part of the program isn't a bad thing...too bad the meetings near me were so clearly christian and I could see the look in the christian women's eyes that I wasn't part of the clan.

Finding the right meeting is important, they're not all the same crowd. When I said that I was agnostic, that I like some ideas in Buddhism, that I like christian morality of right and wrong, I felt like a leper in the room, I could read it in their eyes. We discussed step 3 and they all proclaimed what good christians they are. That was perhaps the unfortunate result of the meetings near me.

OP--did you get that apartment?

 

There are open AA meetings all over the place...you can just ask. I was directed recently to a big book study with AA and Al-anon both in the room. It has been quite enlightening.

 

Therapy won't do anything in my experience for the alcoholic. I used to think self help would do the trick and just found out more of why that doesn't work. We went that route too and it just didn't work at all.

 

The pain is something I still live with daily. The resentments that were already built up in me before I started Al-anon are worked through all the time. I see what you are saying though about the difference between dealing with active addiction and not. It is quite overwhelming isn't it.

 

Maybe your move will bring your guy to a point where he realizes what he has lost. For an A it takes much for them to realize the toll the drinking is taking on them.

 

Glad to see you doing what you feel is best for yourself as that is all one can do. I went to many different meetings to find the right one and I was lucky that the first one for me was the right one after all. The program has nothing to do with Christianity from my experience.

 

I hope things find you well and your move goes well.