Terrible regret/guilt after being dumped

[carolinawanderer]

First, sorry if this story runs a bit long and is rambling. But I could really use some insight, it's Christmas Day and I should be happy, right? But I'm just reminded of how much I've lost.

 

Of course, this story is about a bad breakup. I started dating a girl during my junior year in college. We met online and it was long-distance. We were also very different people - we had very different interests and different personalities, though I think our career goals/life goals were similar enough. I was talkative, outgoing, kind of loud...she was meek, soft-spoken, cool-headed. But both of us were very sweet and affectionate toward each other.

 

We decide to give the dating thing a try. It wasn't love at first sight. She acted like she wanted to break it off a couple of times (within the first couple of months), but we talked and she decided to stay. She wasn't sure if we could overcome our differences.

 

Anyway. At this point it's the beginning of 2008. Things become wonderful between us. We talk all the time, there is a great deal of passion and love in our relationship. We lost our virginity to each other on Valentine's weekend. I could not have been more in love. We were so kind to each other. Sex was great, we were very sexually "playful" with each other and I loved the physical connection we had. She was a pretty girl, but was extremely insecure about her body, and I tried to "lift her up" emotionally. She was reserved and very distant with people, but grew to be very close to me. We had a very "sweet" relationship, lots of "I love you's," lots of gazing into each others' eyes, cuddling, love notes EVERY DAY of our relationship - all right up to the breakup.

 

We hardly ever fought...the only disputes we got into were over philosophical stuff. We were both smart people. I was more people-oriented and was planning to pursue a career as a physician; she was closer to nature and animals and was an aspiring vet. I made it clear that she was into some thing I just didn't think I could enjoy. We had different values and differing outlooks on life. I wouldn't say wholly incompatible; just different. Given our personalities, I'm pretty sure she ended up thinking sometimes I was trying to push my beliefs on her. I wasn't, that was not my intention at all. But I tend to be a little more forceful when I argue a point, and that was not her style. I never meant to run her over, or seem to. I respected her opinion very much.

 

I say this because for pretty much all of 2008, those were really the only issues we had. Minor, if you ask me.

 

'09 rolls around. Things are still good. Then, things in my personal life start to unroll a bit. It was my last semester of college, and stress was mounting. I couldn't get into med school, which put me in a bad place after busting my butt for four years. Also, at a previous point in my college career, I had someone who was harrassing me in a really, really disturbing way (I won't go into the details). It really scarred me and for some reason I was really upset about it again during my senior year, even though I had not heard from this person for a while.

 

Plus, I noticed I was starting to become a little bit bored with our relationship. I never thought of leaving - but little things she did annoyed me more. The spark was fading a little bit, talking to her on the phone became more of a chore than anything.

 

All of this put me into a bit of a depression. For about 2 months, I was off-and-on moody with her. She say some little thing on the phone that annoyed me and I wouldn't speak for a minute or two, or we'd be out somewhere and I'd just be in a noticeably bad mood. I never did any of this to hurt her, I loved her so much. But I was bored, depressed, and unhappy with where our relationship was, and I handled it the wrong way.

 

She'd want to go do something - take a walk, work out, whatever. If it was something I didn't want to do, I didn't want to disappoint her by saying no, but I'd usually get visually upset/resentful. Although I really loved her company, it bothered me how different we were from each other, and when she asked me to do things I didn't really feel like, it punctuated that fact.

 

Anyway, this was not for our whole relationship. We dated for a total of 21 months, and I was like this for maybe two of them, and then it was off-and-on. The vast majority of our relationship was full of compassion and love. The only other "moments" I had were times where I thought she didn't try hard enough to find out what was up/talk to me when I was upset about something else, but that was not very often.

 

Remember how I talked about that person harrassing me in college? Like I said, I couldn't stop dwelling on it for some reason...it was a rumor this person spread, and I found myself scared to do things because of what people might have been saying about me. (The rumor was pretty awful.) My ex was my outlet for all my feelings. I think during those few months, I talked about it to her a bit much. She was supportive, but I knew it wore on her. But I didn't know where else to turn.

 

Anyway, one day in April we got into a huge fight over the phone over how serious my situation was. I said some things I regretted. I felt like she didn't understand what I was going through and I was frustrated. The next day, she was really upset at me because she thought I was trying to belittle her opinion, and she tried to dump me.

 

She said it wasn't just that; she noticed my moodiness and depression the past couple of months and thought it wasn't going to get better. I promised her I'd turn it around. She tried to break up with me a couple weeks later because she thought I couldn't be the partner she wanted - we didn't enjoy enough of the same things, she felt (like being outdoors and whatnot) and, although she said she always wanted me to be "the one," she thought for these reasons she couldn't have a future with me.

 

I realized then how much I stood to lose. I was deeply in love with this girl, but my depression and my insecurities about our relationship were getting in the way. The only problem I had was that I had not heard most of her problems until she was ready to dump me. She had a bad habit of keeping things inside and not telling me what issues made her unhappy as they arose.

 

I turned things around almost right away for her. I made her a promise, and I kept it. My moodiness almost disappeared. I did more things she wanted to do, and had a genuinely good time. I thought things were back to the way they were before. It was wonderful. I was happy, and she seemed to be very happy as well. We got into tiffs now and again, but it was much less frequent.

 

We then decide to move in together. She got into her vet program out-of-state, and I followed her and got a job. We had a couple of small tiffs after moving in, but who doesn't, right? Things seemed to be going just according to plan. She seemed so excited to be starting a new life with me.

 

Ten days later, she dumps me, and it's for good this time. I was totally shocked, especially since I had mostly fixed the things she wanted me to work on. I pleaded for reasons. She gave me a list of things she did not like about me - but also said that NONE of those things were why she was doing this. It made no sense. I mentioned to her all of the things I wrote above. She said that those things were bad, but the real reason she was dumping me was that moving in with me made her realize there was always "something missing" from our relationship. She was hot-and-cold with me during the breakup, as I lived with her for 2 weeks afterwards before finally moving out. If I tried to continue to ask why and reconcile, she started throwing scathing insults at me - "you're immature, you hate life, you wallow in your own misery," etc. etc. (IMO, none of those things were true, the only thing I was really upset about during our relationship was the harassment from that other person. Like I said, I usually loved being with her and around her.) When I didn't, she was nice enough. She even called me for sex a few times after I moved out, and kept insisting that none of this was my fault, I could have done nothing to prevent this, and felt guilty for hurting me so badly.

 

I want SO BADLY to believe this breakup was inevitable. She said straight to my face, many times, that it was. But I'm having a very tough time believing this for a few reasons.

 

1. She said many times I was the only one, how amazing our relationship was, how she needed me in her life, etc etc - and this was not long at all before the breakup.

 

2. Our relationship didn't really start doing badly until my moodiness and depression kicked in. Things were great before that. I feel like she only really started having doubts after that.

 

3. She told me a good number of things she didn't like about who I was. Even though she insists those were not the reasons for the breakup, I have to wonder if those two months of crappiness were enough to push her down the slippery slope of falling out of love.

 

She told me the last couple of months she kept trying to make it work and was outwardly happy with me, but, in the back of her mind, she knew something was wrong. It was strange...she looked me dead in the eye and told me how I was the one for her, told me how sweet and amazing I was, wrote me love poems, etc...this was around a month before the split.

 

I'm still living in the same town. I stayed for my job. She's been dating someone else for a few months now, and is apparently very enamored with him, from what I gather. Strange to see that...she was a socially awkward person who had been historically bad with guys until she met me. I was shocked to know she found someone else so quickly, and obviously heartbroken all over again. She said sex with anyone else wouldn't feel right, but I accidentally found out through one of her public internet posts how great things were with him. It was sickening, nauseating, just unnatural thinking of her in bed with another person.

 

I'm still in love with her, though. Every day, I miss her horribly. We had a good relationship, but I am tortured every single day of thoughts that her falling out of love with me was because of a few of my stupid behaviors during a short but crappy time in our relationship. I still feel like she could be the one - at first I thought we may have been too different, but later I felt like I could really share what she was into and she was my perfect fit.

 

The friends I've related this story to keep telling me that the stuff I did is nowhere close to meriting a break-up, especially since I worked on the problems she raised and wasn't stubborn about my faults. But I still have so much regret, and I wonder if she'd still be with me today had I just had a more positive attitude about things for a while. On the other hand, she was unsure from the beginning, and it took quite a few months of dating before she could see a future with me - I talked about it after 5 or 6 months of being together and she was obviously uncomfortable with it.

 

I'm really torn. I know the only way I can get over this is to somehow realize that the truth is that it was all inevitable and she would have dumped me eventually even if I had acted perfectly. But it seemed to me most of our relationship issues were my fault - I was usually the one to get upset, not her. And so I think that it must have been something I did that caused her to fall out of love, and no matter how hard we tried, she could never get that love back for me, even though my moodiness and whatnot didn't last for all that long.

 

It's been five months, and I still want her to come back to me so much, even though she totally shattered my trust in her.

 

Thoughts? What do you guys really think happened? Am I at fault, or was her love just not that deep, and she changed? I tried so hard to fix what she told me to...and the thought I pushed her away somehow is more than I can bear. I feel like I've lost the love of my life because of a few stupid things.

 

Also, I appreciate your patience and understanding. If I sound like a complete idiot, I'm sorry. Have a Merry Christmas, all.

Edited December 25, 2009 by carolinawanderer

[Eisenhower]

My friend, the sad truth is, many of us will never know for certain why the ex broke up with us. Often, their words and actions leading up to the breakup made no sense and the words they say during the breakup are worthless - they're double talking trying to get out without looking mean or bad. We have to accept that for whatever reason, they decided they don't want to be with us. And I feel your pain, finding out she was with a new guy was in some ways even harder on me than the breakup itself. Makes me sick and sad and jealous.

 

My advice (which I'm struggling to follow myself) is to stop analyzing the breakup or what you could have done differently. Only she knows why she did what she did and she will likely never be straight with you. Also, sometimes people really do change and what seemed like a perfect life to them two months earlier doesn't seem appealing anymore. You can't figure it out, and you'll drive yourself crazy trying. I'm afraid you (we) have to accept it and move on.

 

Good luck,

Eisenhower

[nobmagnet]

your not an idiot.

 

welcome to love shack. sorry your here but welcome

 

i feel i Know you already! It will be hard for me to give you a take on your story.....soz

 

you sound thoughtful and have had a rough time. IMO if she trully loved you........she would have been there for you at your hardest time.

 

But..........i feel you need to work on you. You need more self beleif. you need to heelfrom your awful experiance. Take time. work on you. if you mend you have more chance of gettingh her back by your side. The upside is even if you dont get back........your better.

 

all my lovexx

[carolinawanderer]

Thanks, guys.

 

You know, I do wonder if it was a case of us being too fundamentally different. Our differences really did not matter to me, but I guess they did to her.

 

She hated how I "reacted" to situations sometimes. I never really went off the deep end, but I would be visibly annoyed with things more often than she did. (Not at her, I mean, but at other stuff.) I wonder if she just wanted someone more level-headed.

 

Also, I forgot to mention this...after the breakup, here's what happened:

 

- I meet another girl and thought we were going to date (it was another online thing), but when we met I was not attracted to her at all. I told my ex about her - this is before we began NC - and even though it did not work, I noticed my ex becoming more distant with me.

 

- At this point I started the desperate, "please take me back" emails. I find out that she's starting to get interested in other guys - though I get the feeling she would have wanted anyone that wasn't me at that point. She tells me our relationship felt like "so long ago" despite being apart for only a few weeks.

 

- Eventually, when I got home from work one day, I find that she left all of our mementos in a box on my doorstep. When I go over to her place to ask why, she told me it didn't mean anything anymore. I got upset and she yelled at me, telling me how she was so happy to have me out of her life and that I was so "high-maintenance" during our relationship. I had my moments of course, but like I said, I was usually happy with her and treated her well. This is also when she told me about her new boyfriend.

 

- I don't talk to her for about a month and a half...I finally break NC. We meet for dinner, and it was more civil, but she still seems to have no problem taking shots at my personality and who I am. She gives me the same replies: "it's not your fault, there's nothing you could have changed to make me stay."

 

I haven't seen or talked to her since.

 

She obviously started putting up this emotional wall...didn't seem to be too fussed when I told her I might be moving away for good (which is true).

 

Even though there were many less-than-pretty moments, after the breakup, she said the following things to me before I moved out:

 

"If I had stayed with you, I'd have been comfortable, I could have even married you, but I never would have been TRULY happy."

 

"It's not your fault, we just didn't fit."

 

"If I stayed, I'd just keep breaking your heart, and that's not fair to you."

 

Thoughts? Especially that first thing...if she felt that she would be comfortable, does that mean I really didn't do anything wrong? I feel like if my character flaws were really the things she couldn't stand, then she would not have described things as "comfortable." She did say the relationship was a strain, but she also said she really trusted me and felt safe with me.

Edited December 26, 2009 by carolinawanderer

[GrayClouds]

Carolinawanderer your a thinker and that is a good thing and a bad thing. Good because it show intelligent and that is a great thing to have on your side. It is bad because situations like this, it just slows you down from healing and moving on.

 

Your trying to make sense out of it. It is not going to happens and is truely frustrating for a thinker who is use to able to understand a problem. After a break up and any answer to a question only leads to more question. That is why it is called love not logic and after a break up both goes out the window.

 

So what do you do. It is time to stop thinking about what has happen and start thinking about yourself. That needs to be your focus now. You do that by hitting the gym, start running or swimming or any type of expercise, trying new things, take up some new hobbies, hang out with old friends.

 

Read the following post and do what they way, the advice may be a bit late but it will still help you heal a great deal:

 

So you want a second chance?

 

The No Contact Guide

 

Take care, and be kind to yourself.

[carolinawanderer]

I think I'm getting all of this through my head, slowly but surely.

 

I do think moving put a big strain on her. She said the realization she had that we weren't right for each other had been "building" since we moved in. It's weird...I knew her feelings were fading a little when we were having issues in March/April, but after I convinced her to stay, she told me how much it was killing her to try to dump me and she said she did not want to lose me, or what we had.

 

I feel like if she were TRULY forcing it ever since then, she wouldn't have moved down with me in the first place. She would not have put me through that grief KNOWING it couldn't work.

 

She did tell me last month that she was afraid she couldn't find anyone else, but also knew how devoted I was to her and the relationship, and that's why she stayed...it's all so confusing.

 

Based on all this, I think her love just wasn't strong enough to get her through a rough patch in our relationship and the stress of moving in together.

[GrayClouds]

I think I'm getting all of this through my head, slowly but surely.

 

I do think moving put a big strain on her. She said the realization she had that we weren't right for each other had been "building" since we moved in. It's weird...I knew her feelings were fading a little when we were having issues in March/April, but after I convinced her to stay, she told me how much it was killing her to try to dump me and she said she did not want to lose me, or what we had.

 

I feel like if she were TRULY forcing it ever since then, she wouldn't have moved down with me in the first place. She would not have put me through that grief KNOWING it couldn't work.

 

She did tell me last month that she was afraid she couldn't find anyone else, but also knew how devoted I was to her and the relationship, and that's why she stayed...it's all so confusing.

 

Based on all this, I think her love just wasn't strong enough to get her through a rough patch in our relationship and the stress of moving in together.

 

The desire to process it very strong. The reality is itis likely your way to close to the situtaion to have a good perspective at this point. The fact is you may be 100% correct or 100% wrong or likely somewhere in between but it does not change much.

 

Like most here will say, right now it is time to focus on yourself. I counted 13 "she's" and 8 "I's". that is over 60% "she's". We need to wrk on thinking at least 90% "I's".

 

What ever her reason were take srength that you cared deeply andtried hard. Now it is time to put the same effort into yourself. Hang in there your doing fine.

[JaggedRoad]

These sort of break ups are so frequent around here. Guy gets into a period of depression; girl breaks up; girl changes.

 

My story is similar to yours, but my realization to change was met with a break-up email. I spoke to a female friend of mine and she told me that girls are like this. "Typical girl ****" as another acquaintance (a wealthy and attractive female in her 30s) told me. Try not to dwell on it because it will drive you crazy.

 

Do not contact her for any reason!

 

You think you have something important to tell her? Don't do it. She won't care anymore. Even if she does, she will deny any concern.

 

I'm over 4 months into my break-up and I did not listen to anyone's advice. Do not make the same mistakes that I did. Do not trust your heart while you're going through this. Your heart is still trapped in yesterday, but you need to be in the present.

 

Read books, but do not try to associate anything from your life to the characters or events in a book. Go out with friends occasionally if you are up to it, but do not force yourself.

 

Whatever you do, do not read self-help books right away.

[carolinawanderer]

These sort of break ups are so frequent around here. Guy gets into a period of depression; girl breaks up; girl changes.

 

My story is similar to yours, but my realization to change was met with a break-up email. I spoke to a female friend of mine and she told me that girls are like this. "Typical girl ****" as another acquaintance (a wealthy and attractive female in her 30s) told me. Try not to dwell on it because it will drive you crazy.

 

Do not contact her for any reason!

 

You think you have something important to tell her? Don't do it. She won't care anymore. Even if she does, she will deny any concern.

 

I'm over 4 months into my break-up and I did not listen to anyone's advice. Do not make the same mistakes that I did. Do not trust your heart while you're going through this. Your heart is still trapped in yesterday, but you need to be in the present.

 

Read books, but do not try to associate anything from your life to the characters or events in a book. Go out with friends occasionally if you are up to it, but do not force yourself.

 

Whatever you do, do not read self-help books right away.

 

 

She told me it DID get better and that my attitude was not the reason for the breakup. So I proved to her that wasn't really who I was.

 

But it was weird. I told her my reasons for being moody and negative in the past, but she said, "Well, I think your negativity is just part of who you are." WTF?! I was not that negative, I was usually quite happy with her! And if I was acting negative - I had good reason to be, finding out I couldn't get into med school, and having a rough time my senior year with personal matters.

 

In any case, she said the real reason for the breakup was that we just did not fit, and nothing I changed would matter. I want so much to believe that.

[JaggedRoad]

Hey, don't think about it more than you already have. It won't make sense to you and you will constantly try to piece things together. But in the end, she is the only one who knows the truth. That is if she is completely honest with herself.

 

I don't know how much this is going to help, but a fellow LSer said it best:

 

Hey, I’

m

sorry to hear about your loss. I know it’s tough.

 

It has been my experience that when a woman breaks up with you, her feelings can rapidly change in a way that is difficult for us guys to understand. You need to understand though that she really feels right now like you did something wrong somehow, not morally wrong but like you screwed things up. Maybe she feels somehow cheated that you weren’t different. Maybe she blames you for everything. These are all emotions, I’

m

not saying they make any sense whatsoever. But you have to deal with the fact that that’s what she feels. Again it may make absolutely no sense, it may seem monumentally unfair and irrational. It doesn’t matter. You will never convince her to feel differently with logic. It doesn’t matter how right you are.

 

If she has broken up with you, you need to as quickly as possible accept that situation and back off from her. My feeling is you should not treat her like a queen, or hang out with her unless she is willing to be back in a relationship with you. Definitely don’t let her treat you badly and still keep hanging in there, if she sees she can get away with that all it does is make her lose respect for you.

Best wishes with it,

Scott

 

Although your ex has not said that it is your fault, you really can't trust her words right now.

[carolinawanderer]

Hey, don't think about it more than you already have. It won't make sense to you and you will constantly try to piece things together. But in the end, she is the only one who knows the truth. That is if she is completely honest with herself.

 

I don't know how much this is going to help, but a fellow LSer said it best:

 

 

 

Although your ex has not said that it is your fault, you really can't trust her words right now.

 

I kind of need to trust her words if I want to get past this, I feel.

 

But honestly, what the guy you quoted said is true. I'll try to remember that.

[JaggedRoad]

Do what you need to do, but do not contact her.

[carolinawanderer]

I know. I already blubbered like an idiot in front of her enough and contacted her too many times after the break. No more, I say. I've realized nothing I can say or do at this point will bring her back or even get the truth out of her. I think she's already told me the truth, anyhow.

[meetmehalfway]

your story is so much like mine but i am just experiencing my break up right now, i still think i have a chance she is just in the state of confusion, what i really believe but is that no offense to anyone here, is that men thinks with their heads and women thinks with their heart, it is difficult to tell what they are thinking and whatever logic you throw at them will not work if their hearts already believe something else. best of luck to you but, if she moved on already i think the only thing you can do is move on also, work on yourself first but you'll be fine with your friends around, i need to tell myself too

merry xmas.

[DenverBachelor]

All right, that was a long post. There were so many different points to make comments on, so forgive me if I accidentally miss a couple.

 

First, let me say that I was told the same thing when my ex broke up with me -- "There is something missing." You really want to know what that means? I will tell you my interpretation of what it means after I went back and forth over my past relationship and made some realizations about my behaviour. I had an addiction problem when I moved out to Colorado and that caused me to behave in ways that I never would have. By the time I got my act together, the damage had already been done and the relationship was already headed south.

 

When a woman says, "there's something missing," it generally means there is some large emotional component to the relationship that is absent. We also had a lot of "philosophical" discussions -- including dissecting the exact meaning of "addictive and addicting." Ironically, she didn't know about my own addiction at the time we were arguing about this.

 

We would have great and interesting conversations, but sometimes they would get heated and whereas I thought it was just a fun debate, she would see the more adversarial component of the discussion.

 

If you treat your girlfriend like a best guy friend, in many respects you are going to push out that "emotional component" from the relationship and set yourself up for eventual failure. You have to understand that women are fundamentally different in the way they think about their problems and how they approach the emotional aspects of a relationships. Guys generally just want to get out super glue and a hammer and "fix" things whereas women won't just start "hammering" things but need to talk about things and explore the emotional dimensions of the problem.

 

Time and time again I have made the same mistake. I will start off in the relationship by being sweet, sensitive, buying flowers, going out to restaurants and having fun dating. As the relationship progresses, we'll sit around the house, watch reruns of sex and the city and throw tuna helper on the stove. The aspect of "dating" soon begins to die away as the relationship becomes comfortable. It's like a new pair of shoes -- we'll be very careful not to scuff them or get them dirty. Six months later, we're slamming our foot into them and running out the door.

 

It's fine to have fun philosophical discussions with a woman, but pay attention to how you're presenting yourself to her. Always be aware of her body language. If you can remember to start reading a woman's body language and paying attention to it, you'll be hundreds of times better off in the end.

 

*** Observe what a woman does and her body language first and her words second

 

You'd be surprised how much of a lost art this has become. Either many guys are just blind to it or don't realize how much information a woman is conveying by the tone of her voice, how she is sitting, what she's doing with her hands, her facial expressions, etc.

 

Your relationship with her is done. You should remain out of contact with her for a few months until you both can approach a possible friendship without any emotional investments still lingering. Most of the time, the friendship won't even come into play simply because you have both moved on with your life.

 

You should never hear the words "something missing" again if you focus on what a woman is trying to tell you -- not through her words but her actions. A lot of people are simply too afraid to come out and tell you how your **** stinks, but they're actions will always let you know something is amiss. The first step in communication is knowing that something needs communicating, right?

[JaggedRoad]

If you treat your girlfriend like a best guy friend, in many respects you are going to push out that "emotional component" from the relationship and set yourself up for eventual failure.

 

Ugh... that's pretty much what happened. I'll keep that in mind x_x

[carolinawanderer]

All right, that was a long post. There were so many different points to make comments on, so forgive me if I accidentally miss a couple.

 

First, let me say that I was told the same thing when my ex broke up with me -- "There is something missing." You really want to know what that means? I will tell you my interpretation of what it means after I went back and forth over my past relationship and made some realizations about my behaviour. I had an addiction problem when I moved out to Colorado and that caused me to behave in ways that I never would have. By the time I got my act together, the damage had already been done and the relationship was already headed south.

 

When a woman says, "there's something missing," it generally means there is some large emotional component to the relationship that is absent. We also had a lot of "philosophical" discussions -- including dissecting the exact meaning of "addictive and addicting." Ironically, she didn't know about my own addiction at the time we were arguing about this.

 

We would have great and interesting conversations, but sometimes they would get heated and whereas I thought it was just a fun debate, she would see the more adversarial component of the discussion.

 

If you treat your girlfriend like a best guy friend, in many respects you are going to push out that "emotional component" from the relationship and set yourself up for eventual failure. You have to understand that women are fundamentally different in the way they think about their problems and how they approach the emotional aspects of a relationships. Guys generally just want to get out super glue and a hammer and "fix" things whereas women won't just start "hammering" things but need to talk about things and explore the emotional dimensions of the problem.

 

Time and time again I have made the same mistake. I will start off in the relationship by being sweet, sensitive, buying flowers, going out to restaurants and having fun dating. As the relationship progresses, we'll sit around the house, watch reruns of sex and the city and throw tuna helper on the stove. The aspect of "dating" soon begins to die away as the relationship becomes comfortable. It's like a new pair of shoes -- we'll be very careful not to scuff them or get them dirty. Six months later, we're slamming our foot into them and running out the door.

 

It's fine to have fun philosophical discussions with a woman, but pay attention to how you're presenting yourself to her. Always be aware of her body language. If you can remember to start reading a woman's body language and paying attention to it, you'll be hundreds of times better off in the end.

 

*** Observe what a woman does and her body language first and her words second

 

You'd be surprised how much of a lost art this has become. Either many guys are just blind to it or don't realize how much information a woman is conveying by the tone of her voice, how she is sitting, what she's doing with her hands, her facial expressions, etc.

 

Your relationship with her is done. You should remain out of contact with her for a few months until you both can approach a possible friendship without any emotional investments still lingering. Most of the time, the friendship won't even come into play simply because you have both moved on with your life.

 

You should never hear the words "something missing" again if you focus on what a woman is trying to tell you -- not through her words but her actions. A lot of people are simply too afraid to come out and tell you how your **** stinks, but they're actions will always let you know something is amiss. The first step in communication is knowing that something needs communicating, right?

 

I took a lot of steps to put the "magic" back in our relationship after she tried to break up with me the first time. It was a busy time for both of us when this happened. Both of us were graduating from college, and we went to each others' commencements. I spent a few weeks visiting her, and we were usually out doing things, not just sitting around at home being comfortable. We did both a beach trip and a mountain trip and we had a lot of fun on both.

 

I feel like I didn't just correct my problems - I made sure our relationship was not "boring." We did a lot of things, it felt like "dating."

 

Also, I did make that mistake. If we disagreed on something, I got my point across more forcefully than she did. I didn't find out until later that she did not like it.

 

After the breakup, she ended up saying to me that I "manipulate people into thinking how I do." I asked her what the hell she meant by that, and she basically meant that I'm just stubborn in arguments. WTF? A lot of women are that way, too. I never meant to make her feel like I was trying to "run her over" when we disagreed on something. I just had strong opinions, and she had hers as well, but I noticed that she'd just want to stop talking in what I saw was just a bit of a debate.

 

Now, this didn't happen all the time, or even that often. She even brought this up to me in April when we about broke up, and I acknowledged how I could be blustery in disputes sometime.

 

My ex was the type of person who had a really difficult time standing up for herself. I feel like if she would have done it more often, I'd have gotten the point much more easily. We'd have these debates and she'd carry on later as if nothing was wrong.

 

Also, it really bugged me when she made a HUGE stink about not wanting to split checks when we did something. There wasn't very much I can say I didn't like about my ex, even now, but that was one of them. I told her time and time again that it was my parents' money I was spending, as I was in college...my parents did not expect me to work and took care of my tuition, but my ex had to work. She went on about how sometimes she felt more like a friend than a girlfriend, and I didn't know what to do. I couldn't just blow a ton of money on her that was not mine. PLUS, I did all sorts of sweet little things for her throughout our relationship, and in the short time between when we moved down and when we broke up, I bought her dinner and a gift to show her I would keep my word and not be so stingy with money in the future (because I had a job when I moved down).

 

Are you saying I got dumped basically because I didn't "treat her like a girlfriend" sometimes? We got into a few heated disputes and I had to be careful with money that wasn't mine. That should not be nowhere near enough to make someone fall out of love with you.

 

I felt like I did a good job taking care of our relationship. For the vast majority of it, we went out and did things a lot, we went places, we had fun. I wanted to make sure things didn't get too stale.

 

Plus, I feel like if we have 15 months where things are good, and then 2 when they're not so good, and THAT was enough to make her not want to be with me anymore even after I fixed things, her love can't have been all that deep.

 

Anyway, she said that wasn't the reason, even after I posed that question to her a lot. I did pay attention to signs she was giving me...I could usually tell when something was wrong with her. I was much more careful to be more light-hearted when we disagreed over something after she told me that it was bothering her.

 

You say there was a big emotional component missing? Honestly, I think that just had to do with our personalities. The only times when I feel like I didn't treat more like a friend than a girlfriend was splitting checks and debates over random crap. Other than that, I'm not sure what more I could have done. She even told me she made a "stay vs. break up" list back in April, and some of the things that really compelled her to stay were how "sweet and caring" I was. So I don't think she felt like I treated her like a guy friend MOST of the time. In the end, we are all human, and while women are certainly different from men, they're not a seperate species. We treat everyone the same in some respects.

 

I don't think I could have given her much more than I did, save for those couple of months of depression and listlessness. I feel I really did treat her like a woman the vast majority of the time. It was hard not to - she wasn't overly emotional, but there weren't many "guy" things I thought she enjoyed.

 

I'm not trying to crap on your points. I think pretty much all of what you said is 100 percent true. But like I said, I feel like I really did treat her how she wanted to be treated most of the time. I had some lapses. But no one has a perfect relationship.

 

Plus, I was also VERY willing, much more than her, to talk things out. I usually wanted to know why she felt how she felt, and to understand not only how to fix problems, but why fixing those things would make a difference. I was much more open with my feelings than she was, and I knew that superficially doing things without addressing underlying issues wouldn't do anything. For example, I didn't start doing things she wanted to do just to appease her. I had a genuine desire to be a part of what she was interested in, and to enjoy myself, which is exactly what she wanted.

 

She said the only reason she about split with me back in April was because she thought my issues of depression and disinterest could not be fixed. I proved her wrong.

 

I pressed her for reasons so many times after the split. She insulted me quite a bit. But not once did I ever hear, "I don't feel loved, I feel like you don't care about me in that way, I feel like I'm just a friend you have sex with, etc etc." I feel like if she were think that, it definitely would have come out. She said some things to me that were quite a bit worse than that.

 

In the end, I'm pretty sure it was just a matter of us being so fundamentally different, and she saw that after the honeymoon phase ended. I guess that's something that just can't be changed.

Edited December 27, 2009 by carolinawanderer

[DenverBachelor]

Also, it really bugged me when she made a HUGE stink about not wanting to split checks when we did something. There wasn't very much I can say I didn't like about my ex, even now, but that was one of them.

 

If you want an honest assessment from me based on everything you wrote, I will give it to you -- but be forewarned, I'll be honest with how I see everything.

 

From what you wrote above, I would have to agree with her on this. You're missing a big component here and splitting checks is bordering on anal-retentive. If you go down that road, be prepared to have a lot of first dates. I can understand where you are coming from with it being your parents money, but there are better ways to handle this.

 

Nothing is a bigger turn-off (at least to me anyway) then dating someone and having to divide up checks. The way I like to approach it is the "I've got next round" methodology. You got dinner on Wednesday? She can get dinner on Friday. You bought groceries last week? She can buy them this week. Will it be perfectly split down the middle? No. Does it have to be? No. If you think it has to be, you may be anal-retentive.

 

If she said you force your views on others, it may mean that although you feel passionate about your beliefs, you are presenting them in a very confrontational way. I was guilty of this until I learned to read body language better.

 

That's just my opinion. If I ever went on a date with someone and she insisted we split the check, I'd just buy dinner and move on to the next date. I don't really enjoy the hassle of having to throw cash around the table and turn a romantic night out into a pre-algebra problem. Better approach -- You're grabbing dinner? Cool, I'll pay for drinks and a movie afterwards.

[DenverBachelor]

I'm not trying to crap on your points. I think pretty much all of what you said is 100 percent true. But like I said, I feel like I really did treat her how she wanted to be treated most of the time. I had some lapses. But no one has a perfect relationship..

 

YOU feel like you treated her how she wanted to be treated most of the time. Keyword here is "you." Obviously she felt differently, or she would most likely still be with you. I think you're taking the viewpoint that, "Hmm, I know I was a great guy to her and she left me, so I'll have to figure out the problem on her side of the court."

 

After my breakup, I had a lot of revelations about both of us. I realized a lot of my own mistakes. That's the tough aspect of dealing with a failed long-term relationship because nobody wants to go through their own crap. The point is that you HAVE to do it at some point or you'll never learn from your previous relationships.

 

Ask yourself this and rudiment on it for a bit -- If I were to call your ex up right now and asked her, "What was the biggest thing you hated about your ex," what do you think her answer would be?

[GrayClouds]

All right, that was a long post. There were so many different points to make comments on, so forgive me if I accidentally miss a couple.

 

First, let me say that I was told the same thing when my ex broke up with me -- "There is something missing." You really want to know what that means? I will tell you my interpretation of what it means after I went back and forth over my past relationship and made some realizations about my behaviour. I had an addiction problem when I moved out to Colorado and that caused me to behave in ways that I never would have. By the time I got my act together, the damage had already been done and the relationship was already headed south.

 

That "something missing" in your relationship was likely a major component to the foundation of the relationship. Just as addicts are drawn to addiction as a way to get certain needs meet, those who are attracted to the addict for the do it for same reasons, be it different needs. But in both cases it is usually a destructive whay to do so.

 

The words "something missing"is often amplification of personal dissatisfaction is which a they are not willing to look internally for the root cause. It is much easier and convenient to hang it on that on the relationship or the other person in the relationship. Often eople will look for relationships to distract them from that hole in themselves. And it work for while but it usual comes sneaking back. The healthy/mature person faces it, the unhealthy/immature person blames the relationship and bounces to another relationship for anther distraction.

 

As likely as your behavior caused the damage in the relationship, it also likely it was a component that drew her to you, even if she was not consciously cognizant of your addiction. Generally healthy people are not attracted to unhealthy people. Her behavior after the break up has illustrated she enjoys drama, an addict offers a good deal of that. But even the most exciting show in town get boring if you watch it every day. I suspect, at the end point, she needed new drama to keep things interesting for her, and that "was the something missing."

 

When a woman says, "there's something missing," it generally means there is some large emotional component to the relationship that is absent. We also had a lot of "philosophical" discussions -- including dissecting the exact meaning of "addictive and addicting." Ironically, she didn't know about my own addiction at the time we were arguing about this.

 

We would have great and interesting conversations, but sometimes they would get heated and whereas I thought it was just a fun debate, she would see the more adversarial component of the discussion.

 

Possible she just didn't not enjoy such intellectual debate, there is many women who do, there is many relationships that depend on it. That stimulation can be as enjoyable as a good roll in the hay with a well matched partner. This to the type of person you need as a partner. I suggest seeing it less as mistake, unless you were bulling, but the fact that you need someone who enjoys giving good repartee.

 

 

Time and time again I have made the same mistake. I will start off in the relationship by being sweet, sensitive, buying flowers, going out to restaurants and having fun dating. As the relationship progresses, we'll sit around the house, watch reruns of sex and the city and throw tuna helper on the stove. The aspect of "dating" soon begins to die away as the relationship becomes comfortable. It's like a new pair of shoes -- we'll be very careful not to scuff them or get them dirty. Six months later, we're slamming our foot into them and running out the door.

 

A realization of any relationship is to find that level of comfort, which is not to say take it for granite but the security of knowing you can throw tuner helper in the stove. If that is the person you are then possible the mistake is more your not being true to who you are at the start.

 

I have a friend who hated all the traditional romantic type of dating things, restaurants, moves, flowers, ect. A few years after college, after still not having a relationship last longer then a few dates, he pretty much stop doing those. So instead he would do things like biking, rehabbing a house, just hang and drinking beer by the fire pit, pretty much old shoes stuff. Some girls got disenchanted quick, other really liked it, and was able to find his wife of 10 years and a pretty good marriage at that by being true.

 

*** Observe what a woman does and her body language first and her words second

 

You'd be surprised how much of a lost art this has become. Either many guys are just blind to it or don't realize how much information a woman is conveying by the tone of her voice, how she is sitting, what she's doing with her hands, her facial expressions, etc.

 

If a woman or man is mature and invest in the relationship then the owe the relationship and the other the effort to directly communicate themselves. If you find that you need to read the tea leaves or decipher what someone is communicating primarily on non verbals, then the relationship is already taking on water.

 

People forget a primary purpose to dating it to get to know a person. A major component of that is finding out how open they are to communicate, to be emotional and intellectually intimate. It is the downside of the ease that physical intimacy now can be achieve. It is easy to fool ourselves that because we achieve the physical we also achieve the non physical. It take more maturate and openness to communicate intimacy then to do it physically. So we commit to a relationship before we know if the other is can effectively communicate there wants and needs. Then we bounce from relationship to relationship so we never develop the ability to do so, nor the desire to wait until we can find someone is committee to do so.

 

The first step in communication is knowing that something needs communicating, right?

 

The first step in communication may be knowing that something needs communicating, but it is the next step that is the difficult one; courage and the desire to communicative. In a relationship that mean to be open and vulnerable.

 

As important as it is to think about the dynamics of the interpersonal of relationship, and many do not give it just due, that is a danger to over think it. Often it is as simple as "be yourself" and "say what is on your mind". Simple but not easy.

Edited December 28, 2009 by GrayClouds