MM thinking of going back home!!!!

[silverplanets]

Your mum is right - trust me.

 

Been there and got the t-shirt. There is no way your needs will ever be met and no matter how much you love him that's not going to change.

 

He's got this perfect guilt/threat hook over you every time ... you can't object to him going there (guilt) but each time he does it without clear boundries he's issuing a covert threat to you that he has other options.

 

Your suggestion about him going there, setting the alarm , coming to you and then going back was a good one ... I think that's more understanding than most people in your position would be.

 

Don't feel too bad about 2 wasted years ... I wasted 7 actual years over 1 15 year period on a similar situation.

 

Calmly get out and move on - your head (and heart) will feel clearer each and every day.

 

Everyone is worth so much more than this type of situation, and it's only because of the continual guilt/threat environment that you have had to endure that you've lost sight of this.

 

2010 has got to be worth more than wasting a third year on this, eh????

 

:-)

Chris

[Got it]

While I will agree that in an EMR there seems to be a greater chance of an uneven power struggle it doesn't have to be that way. I rarely allowed any considerations based on him being married. I expected to be treated as if he was a single guy if he wanted to be with me. While I knew there would be some secrecy I did not grant much more than that. There were people on both sides who knew the truth, we spent about 5 days a week together, sleep overs at least once a week, weekends based on both party's schedules, trips, etc.

 

His marital status was his cross to bear not mine. He needed to work even harder as he was lucky to have me as his mistress not the other way around.

 

The same goes for his separation. While I am empathetic to his pain I do not allow my boundaries to be crossed where I feel minimized. There is obviously an ebb and flow to each of our needs he can not manipulate the majority of the relationship's focus. That isn't fair to myself or our relationship.

 

The last thing I would want is to have a man I need to mollycoddle, I had a (ex) husband that I had to do that. Remember you are the prize. He should be honored to be with you.

 

Don't forget that.

[OWoman]

While I will agree that in an EMR there seems to be a greater chance of an uneven power struggle it doesn't have to be that way. I rarely allowed any considerations based on him being married. I expected to be treated as if he was a single guy if he wanted to be with me. While I knew there would be some secrecy I did not grant much more than that. There were people on both sides who knew the truth, we spent about 5 days a week together, sleep overs at least once a week, weekends based on both party's schedules, trips, etc.

 

His marital status was his cross to bear not mine. He needed to work even harder as he was lucky to have me as his mistress not the other way around.

 

The same goes for his separation. While I am empathetic to his pain I do not allow my boundaries to be crossed where I feel minimized. There is obviously an ebb and flow to each of our needs he can not manipulate the majority of the relationship's focus. That isn't fair to myself or our relationship.

 

The last thing I would want is to have a man I need to mollycoddle, I had a (ex) husband that I had to do that. Remember you are the prize. He should be honored to be with you.

 

Don't forget that.

 

Agree completely.

[crystal_lostheart]

Spoke to xMM yesterday on phone

 

He told me that he has 'done all he can for me for now.... I have left my W, I have only been out of the house for 10 months. I think things are fine the way they are and I'm sorry YOU want me to move faster and get a D'.

 

Mind you I have never actually said go get a D. I have just pointed out a few facts... 'How do we move forward if YOU don't get a D? Don't you want to move forward with your life? Would you expect any less from me after 2 years? How do we ever have a family and remarry (he tells me he wants this with me) if you don't D?' I was asking him this as a generalization for ANY R as well.

 

He said ' I am not telling my W there is someone else yet because she will stop me from seeing my child (when I want) for now and I am not ready to go through that yet. I have to come to terms with the fact that I am walking out on my child. I live at my parents house and you don't understand how hard that is. It is a slap in their face that their son walked out on their grandchild. I have shown you HUGE amounts of commitment by buying things for your house and for us, spending so much time with you. I have put you first in so many ways but it's never good enough for you is it? And anyway, I don't need to get a D for us to have a child together. We can have a child anytime whether I am D or not?'

 

Then to finish it off he says, 'Look I can understand why you are upset but I think you're just in panic mode and need to calm down'.

 

I held the phone in my hands for a few seconds in complete and utter silence and then said 'I need to go. Please stop calling me'. And then I hung up and we haven't spoken since, which is good. I leave for my holiday next Thursday. I can't wait to get out of here.

 

I was just speechless after that conversation..... Again I started questioning myself then just remembered what Mum said .... Keep Walking.

[WhereToGoFromHere]

Mum knows best. Keep walking.

 

How can he think its okay to have a child with you if he hasn't got a D?

 

I'm scratching my head on that one.

[crystal_lostheart]

Mum knows best. Keep walking.

 

How can he think its okay to have a child with you if he hasn't got a D?

 

I'm scratching my head on that one.

 

Yeah ..... Hmmmm .... I actually laughed ... quite loudly

[2sunny]

he acts as if he has no concept of reality. seriously. and then he tries to make it your fault?

 

man, this guy has problems with mental processing. then have a child with you? what kind of comment is that at a time like this? a comment by a very desperate man... you did the right thing by hanging up - now if he calls again - don't talk to him... there's no point.

[Angel1111]

In a way, I can understand what he's saying, except for the thing about having a child. If you understand how men tick, you'll understand what he was really saying. Men are geared to be the providers and to be responsible for their family. They're taught that if they don't uphold that obligation, they're not really men. They're taught that walking out on their family makes them less of a man, that they're shirking their responsibility. They also put a high value on their money, and divorce always causes havoc on that area of their lives. Divorce can also impact their reputation in a negative way. All of these things create a lot of stress for men.

 

The problem is, while I understand what's happening with him, he doesn't need to be seeing anyone while he's going through this process. As long as he's with you, he will continually be torn about guilt, and having to please two women, among other things. Very few guys can handle this kind of thing, which is why very few of them don't leave their marriages. It's not because they think so much of their marriage, it's because they think so much of their responsibilities. Women do not carry this because we're not geared to feel responsible for a man and we know that if we walk away from a relationship, we can take our children with us. It's much more complicated for men. But, again, he needs to realize that he cannot continue to jerk you around while he's in the midst of all this turmoil. But, you know, he truly did feel that he was doing the best he could with you.

 

I think you could be a little more understanding about what he's going through, but let him know that it's not fair for you to get caught in the middle of it.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Angel1111

[2sunny]

I

think you could be a little more understanding about what he's going through, but let him know that you cannot let yourself get caught in the middle of it.

 

huh? here is the TITLE of this thread----> MM thinking of going back HOME.

 

where's the reality! oh ya, he's MARRIED and going back home!

 

why would the OP need to be "understanding?" she needs to reclaim her life, not be more understanding of a married man.

[crystal_lostheart]

In a way, I can understand what he's saying, except for the thing about having a child. If you understand how men tick, you'll understand what he was really saying. Men are geared to be the providers and to be responsible for their family. They're taught that if they don't uphold that obligation, they're not really men. They're taught that walking out on their family makes them less of a man, that they're shirking their responsibility. They also put a high value on their money, and divorce always causes havoc on that area of their lives. Divorce can also impact their reputation in a negative way. All of these things create a lot of stress for men.

 

The problem is, while I understand what's happening with him, he doesn't need to be seeing anyone while he's going through this process. As long as he's with you, he will continually be torn about guilt, and having to please two women, among other things. Very few guys can handle this kind of thing, which is why very few of them don't leave their marriages. It's not because they think so much of their marriage, it's because they think so much of their responsibilities. Women do not carry this because we're not geared to feel responsible for a man and we know that if we walk away from a relationship, we can take our children with us. It's much more complicated for men. But, again, he needs to realize that he cannot continue to jerk you around while he's in the midst of all this turmoil. But, you know, he truly did feel that he was doing the best he could with you.

 

I think you could be a little more understanding about what he's going through, but let him know that it's not fair for you to get caught in the middle of it.

 

Hey Angel,

 

I get the whole pride thing with a man. I know and I get it.... I am a lot more independent than his W (I work, have my own house, no children) and I guess that guilt of leaving his W would be hard.

But I just think for now, he is not being rational about things and I can't and don't want to make him see otherwise. He needs to figure things out and that's why I am just staying away. But I have made the choice to just get on with life and move forward at the moment without him and deep down I think it will stay without him

[Angel1111]

I

 

huh? here is the TITLE of this thread----> MM thinking of going back HOME.

 

 

where's the reality! oh ya, he's MARRIED and going back home!

 

why would the OP need to be "understanding?" she needs to reclaim her life, not be more understanding of a married man.

 

I thought even then she had overracted to that situation. The thing is, they need to stop having a relationship and she needs to just let him go through the process without getting stuck in the middle. She could just be there as a friend so that they don't lose their connection. But as it is, he's too conflicted and needs to deal with it in his own way, in his own time.

 

You know, he might've gone back home and realized just how much he hated being there. I felt that way after leaving my husband. I went to his house for our son's bd party and I didn't expect the negative reaction I had from it. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

 

These two just need to stop trying to make this work while he's in the middle of a separation. I really don't think he's beng a jerk. I think he's trying as hard as he can and he's being honest with her about it. They need to be able to maintain that level of honesty between them. I do think 10 mos is a long time but, as I said, he has to deal with it in his own time. And trying to have a relationship with the OW is probably just hindering the process. I'm not saying he's right and she's wrong. It's not about right or wrong. It's about healing, and he apparently has a lot of healing to do. You have to respect that.

[Brokenlady]

He told me that he has 'done all he can for me for now.... I have left my W, I have only been out of the house for 10 months. I think things are fine the way they are and I'm sorry YOU want me to move faster and get a D'.

 

He said ' I am not telling my W there is someone else yet because she will stop me from seeing my child (when I want) for now and I am not ready to go through that yet. I have to come to terms with the fact that I am walking out on my child. I live at my parents house and you don't understand how hard that is. It is a slap in their face that their son walked out on their grandchild. I have shown you HUGE amounts of commitment by buying things for your house and for us, spending so much time with you. I have put you first in so many ways but it's never good enough for you is it? And anyway, I don't need to get a D for us to have a child together. We can have a child anytime whether I am D or not?'

 

Then to finish it off he says, 'Look I can understand why you are upset but I think you're just in panic mode and need to calm down'.

 

 

Crystal,

I have had this exact conversation with my xDM. He'd say he was going as fast as he could, but it was never good enough for me. He'd say I was panicing for no reason, that I was placing unreasonable demands on him and that he had given all he had to offer at that point. Sometimes he'd go as far as saying I was just like his xW. He said he felt like he was letting everyone down. Rest assured that if she hadn't filed and pushed it, they still wouldn't have a divorce even filed. I know in my heart he would not have done it.

 

It's all bull, an excuse, and a way to blameshift. It worked well for my xDM. He'd turn something I'd be upset at him for into a pity party that ended with me apologizing to him for not being understanding enough! Your needs count too. It can't be all about him, all the time.

[Brokenlady]

I thought even then she had overracted to that situation. The thing is, they need to stop having a relationship and she needs to just let him go through the process without getting stuck in the middle. She could just be there as a friend so that they don't lose their connection. But as it is, he's too conflicted and needs to deal with it in his own way, in his own time.

 

You know, he might've gone back home and realized just how much he hated being there. I felt that way after leaving my husband. I went to his house for our son's bd party and I didn't expect the negative reaction I had from it. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

 

These two just need to stop trying to make this work while he's in the middle of a separation. I really don't think he's beng a jerk. I think he's trying as hard as he can and he's being honest with her about it. They need to be able to maintain that level of honesty between them. I do think 10 mos is a long time but, as I said, he has to deal with it in his own time. And trying to have a relationship with the OW is probably just hindering the process. I'm not saying he's right and she's wrong. It's not about right or wrong. It's about healing, and he apparently has a lot of healing to do. You have to respect that.

 

 

Sure. I always told my xDM that he had every right to do things at his own pace, but it wasn't fair of him to expect me to wait around while he lollygagged around. (So - he lied and lied to keep me thinking he was moving forward when he wasn't. Still there were signs I should have heeded that blared that he had nothing to offer but more pain). Anyway - I don't think she ought to wait for hm. And I just don't think it ever works just trying to "be friends". You cant go back to that when you've been lovers, at least not until after a lot of time has passed. This just isn't going to work between them, now or 2 years from now. In the meantime, while shes respecting his need to do things at his own pace, he has to respect the fact that he can't meet her needs and leave her be.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Brokenlady

[Angel1111]

Sure. I always told my xDM that he had every right to do things at his own pace, but it wasn't fair of him to expect me to wait around while he lollygagged around. (So - he lied and lied to keep me thinking he was moving forward when he wasn't. Still there were signs I should have heeded that blared that he had nothing to offer but more pain). Anyway - I don't think she ought to wait for hm. And I just don't think it ever works just trying to "be friends". You cant go back to that when you've been lovers, at least not until after a lot of time has passed. This just isn't going to work between them, now or 2 years from now. In the meantime, while shes respecting his need to do things at his own pace, he has to respect the fact that he can't meet her needs and leave her be.

 

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is, why get pissed off at the guy? She needs to just draw the line of where her boundaries are, tell him she understands what he's going through, and wish him happiness. If he wants to come looking for her when it's all over with, great. If she's still available and still wants to be with him, great. There's just no point in getting mad at him - he is trying, but he's confused and torn, and people do and say dumb things when they're in those situations.

[Angel1111]

Hey Angel,

 

I get the whole pride thing with a man. I know and I get it.... I am a lot more independent than his W (I work, have my own house, no children) and I guess that guilt of leaving his W would be hard.

But I just think for now, he is not being rational about things and I can't and don't want to make him see otherwise. He needs to figure things out and that's why I am just staying away. But I have made the choice to just get on with life and move forward at the moment without him and deep down I think it will stay without him

 

Yeah, and that's all good. I don't think you should sit around and wait for him or anything like that. I just don't think you need to end things with him on bad terms because he seems like a good guy overall. He's got enough on his plate, and so do you. Kindness goes a long way.

[crystal_lostheart]

Yeah, and that's all good. I don't think you should sit around and wait for him or anything like that. I just don't think you need to end things with him on bad terms because he seems like a good guy overall. He's got enough on his plate, and so do you. Kindness goes a long way.

 

It can be hard to be kind when you're hurting.

 

I understand it's not an easy situation, I can see from his point that he believes he is trying but I can't be in a R where I don't know where I stand with this man

 

And that is the truth of it

[crystal_lostheart]

I just don't think you need to end things with him on bad terms because he seems like a good guy overall. He's got enough on his plate, and so do you.

 

 

He has honestly put EXTRA on the plate...

 

Maybe he is a good guy???? But I know him best and he has done some things that are not so good.... to me and to others.

 

Why did I stay. I don't know. But now I feel like I am waking up and just realizing that we are never going to see eye to eye.

[crystal_lostheart]

Crystal,

I have had this exact conversation with my xDM. He'd say he was going as fast as he could, but it was never good enough for me. He'd say I was panicing for no reason, that I was placing unreasonable demands on him and that he had given all he had to offer at that point. Sometimes he'd go as far as saying I was just like his xW. He said he felt like he was letting everyone down. Rest assured that if she hadn't filed and pushed it, they still wouldn't have a divorce even filed. I know in my heart he would not have done it.

 

It's all bull, an excuse, and a way to blameshift. It worked well for my xDM. He'd turn something I'd be upset at him for into a pity party that ended with me apologizing to him for not being understanding enough! Your needs count too. It can't be all about him, all the time.

 

He thinks I'm demanding??? I get angry because after 2 years I have never asked for anything ... all I WAS asking for was to START moving forward. He left his W (not 2 weeks ago but 10 months ago) and he's done NOTHING. Yet he thinks he has????? No.... he's weak.

 

I myself left my H. Got a D. Bought a house. Set myself up. But with him the child is ALWAYS the excuse not to do anything. And that's fine now. I don't need his guilt trips anymore.

[crystal_lostheart]

Your mum is right - trust me.

 

Been there and got the t-shirt. There is no way your needs will ever be met and no matter how much you love him that's not going to change.

 

He's got this perfect guilt/threat hook over you every time ... you can't object to him going there (guilt) but each time he does it without clear boundries he's issuing a covert threat to you that he has other options.

 

Your suggestion about him going there, setting the alarm , coming to you and then going back was a good one ... I think that's more understanding than most people in your position would be.

 

Don't feel too bad about 2 wasted years ... I wasted 7 actual years over 1 15 year period on a similar situation.

 

Calmly get out and move on - your head (and heart) will feel clearer each and every day.

 

Everyone is worth so much more than this type of situation, and it's only because of the continual guilt/threat environment that you have had to endure that you've lost sight of this.

 

2010 has got to be worth more than wasting a third year on this, eh????

 

:-)

Chris

 

He does play the guilt trip.... a lot. I used to fall for it all the time. I don't know why I fought for him so much?

[Brokenlady]

Yeah, that makes sense. I guess what I'm trying to say is, why get pissed off at the guy? She needs to just draw the line of where her boundaries are, tell him she understands what he's going through, and wish him happiness. If he wants to come looking for her when it's all over with, great. If she's still available and still wants to be with him, great. There's just no point in getting mad at him - he is trying, but he's confused and torn, and people do and say dumb things when they're in those situations.

 

It is certainly up to each of us to enforce our own boundaries, but often MM try to bulldoze over them. This MM isn't trying to do anything except avoid cutting ties one way or the other. And that's ok if thats what he wants, but I get the impression he's telling crystal he's really trudging along towards her and away from his wife when he really is not. It's that he's trying to guilt her into waiting by getting her to pity how hard it is for him.

 

I can personally testify that it is really annoying to have an MM whining about "hard" a divorce is when the OW has been through one herself. That, coupled with the pleading for patience while no progress is being made is the root of the anger and resentment, i think.

[Brokenlady]

Yeah, and that's all good. I don't think you should sit around and wait for him or anything like that. I just don't think you need to end things with him on bad terms because he seems like a good guy overall. He's got enough on his plate, and so do you. Kindness goes a long way.

 

There is no need to end things on bad terms. But I think that his lack of movement forward over nearly is year is cause to end things. She's been holding his hand and he's still hurting her, and she doesn't need this crap. He will undoubtedly whine about how he feels abandoned when he needs her the most - I've heard this song and dance so many times. One thing I've learned is that boundaries with MM have to be really well structured - fences don't cut it, you need the wall of china.

 

Whether or not he's a good person isn't the issue. It's how his behavior, and insistence on not changing it is going to affect crystal. Truly I think my xDM is a good person (I'd like to think i wouldn't pick out someone inherently evil), but he's got some really bad behaviors that cause me so much pain and it's just too much for me to put up with anymore.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Brokenlady

[silverplanets]

I can personally testify that it is really annoying to have an MM whining about "hard" a divorce is when the OW has been through one herself. That, coupled with the pleading for patience while no progress is being made is the root of the anger and resentment, i think.

 

I HUGELY agree with this. I have been divorced and know the stages. I have also left a relationship in which I had a child (I was the prime carer and man so this was not legally easy and added to that I was insistent that our child would be in both parents lives' equally) so I know the stages in this as well.

 

I have known my MW for approx 15 years and in all that time have lost count of the number of stalls on the way to a divorce ... all the while asking me to be understanding.

 

I was understanding to a degree but there is a reality ... if you've never been to see a lawyer you ain't divorcing, if you've never told your partner you WANT a divorce then you ain't divorcing ... it's just pie in the sky stuff.

 

I even had "we're selling the house, we need to wait for that" and then they sold it they moved to a new one ... (they were selling the house but it was NOTHING to do with any separation).

 

In all that time i completely sorted my sh*t out, from a MUCH harder starting position than her.

 

If it's been TWO years for you then you should be able to see a concrete provable step .. and if there's not then the request to wait as the process takes time is FALSE .. the process has not even started.

 

I think my MW mistook her thinking she might divorce one day with actually doing a divorce .. they are VERY separate things.

 

And my BEEF with every MM and MW who does this that they are playing god with YOUR life (never mind their married partner) ... all they need to do is be honest .. "I've done NOTHING about it" .. and you're free to kick them in to touch ... but do they do this ... no they don't .... and THAT is why they need to be kicked into touch !

 

Sorry - rant over.

 

I feel very strongly about people who deliberately mislead others. If they tell you they are leaving and they are not then in my opinion they should be liable in some way for your wasted time.

[crystal_lostheart]

There is no need to end things on bad terms. But I think that his lack of movement forward over nearly is year is cause to end things. She's been holding his hand and he's still hurting her, and she doesn't need this crap. He will undoubtedly whine about how he feels abandoned when he needs her the most - I've heard this song and dance so many times. One thing I've learned is that boundaries with MM have to be really well structured - fences don't cut it, you need the wall of china.

 

Whether or not he's a good person isn't the issue. It's how his behavior, and insistence on not changing it is going to affect crystal. Truly I think my xDM is a good person (I'd like to think i wouldn't pick out someone inherently evil), but he's got some really bad behaviors that cause me so much pain and it's just too much for me to put up with anymore.

 

Reading all your posts here. Your situation sounds almost identical to mine. Thank you for your advice. It helps me when I have moments of doubt

Hugs

[crystal_lostheart]

I HUGELY agree with this. I have been divorced and know the stages. I have also left a relationship in which I had a child (I was the prime carer and man so this was not legally easy and added to that I was insistent that our child would be in both parents lives' equally) so I know the stages in this as well.

 

I have known my MW for approx 15 years and in all that time have lost count of the number of stalls on the way to a divorce ... all the while asking me to be understanding.

 

I was understanding to a degree but there is a reality ... if you've never been to see a lawyer you ain't divorcing, if you've never told your partner you WANT a divorce then you ain't divorcing ... it's just pie in the sky stuff.

 

I even had "we're selling the house, we need to wait for that" and then they sold it they moved to a new one ... (they were selling the house but it was NOTHING to do with any separation).

 

In all that time i completely sorted my sh*t out, from a MUCH harder starting position than her.

 

If it's been TWO years for you then you should be able to see a concrete provable step .. and if there's not then the request to wait as the process takes time is FALSE .. the process has not even started.

 

I think my MW mistook her thinking she might divorce one day with actually doing a divorce .. they are VERY separate things.

 

And my BEEF with every MM and MW who does this that they are playing god with YOUR life (never mind their married partner) ... all they need to do is be honest .. "I've done NOTHING about it" .. and you're free to kick them in to touch ... but do they do this ... no they don't .... and THAT is why they need to be kicked into touch !

 

Sorry - rant over.

 

I feel very strongly about people who deliberately mislead others. If they tell you they are leaving and they are not then in my opinion they should be liable in some way for your wasted time.

 

xMM is very good at trying to turn things around bi

but the problem for him now is - I have heard all these 'similar' things when he made excuses about not leaving. I don't think he realizes that I'm not that stupid. Not falling for it this time. Thanks for the advice.

[Austen]

I'm new here and in a difficult situation myself. I've read your entire thread, and it's been enlightening. I have to say, you have a pair, girl. And I admire that. Don't back down!