What did your ap say or imply about their spouse and marriage?

[Spark1111]

It is two years since DDAY, and I recently, FINALLY, spoke to the OW in our triangle.

 

At first, she seemed cold, and her tone of voice was somewhat superior. During the conversation, her tone changed because I think I finally became a real person to her, and hell, I AM a nice person.

 

So while my WS has sworn he never bad-mouthed me, I am sure many, many negative qualities and situations regarding me were IMPLIED to her, because initially, she seemed to have a very negative impression of me.

 

What are some of the things your AP has said, implied, alluded to regarding their spouse?

 

Please be honest.

[Shouldacouldawoulda]

My MM says they married because she was pregnant, that they were only casually seeing each other a couple of times a month (He has 3 jobs - so this is totally believeable.) before she got pregnant, and it was more about just hanging out with friends and then having sex. He says they never say I love you (They married at the courthouse, no elaborate vows or ceremony.) He says he just has nothing for her, he never has, and they pretty much just ignore each other. They do not share financials. She supposedly doesn't cook or do his laundry - he does it for himself & his son. Basically, he has said they just live under the same roof so they can both raise their son. Last night, during our big conversation, he said they have been talking about getting divorced and having him move close to her so he could help with their son. He says they don't argue. He says he doesn't care enough about her to even put forth an effort to argue or do anything else. And he swears she's the same way toward him. He can get so irate and irritated with ME sometimes, so it's hard to hear that they never argue - but he says it's because he has strong feelings for me & none for her. I asked him last night why she couldn't know about us then, and he said while he wouldn't care if she knew (his family members & friends all know about me), he didn't want to purposely hurt her. I guess she found a receipt or checkbook entry where he had taken me to dinner, and she asked him why he had spent so much. She's also started wondering why he keeps his phone locked. Her xH cheated on her also, so I'm sure she's starting to sense something is going on.

[stampdaddy]

Sparky,

 

I feel that it more than not is the PICTURE that gets painted regarding the State of the Union other than "personal" attacks against the BS...

 

"yeah, you know, it has just been eroding over time, we grew apart.. Sure, we tried a little here and there, but we always seemed to get "busy with life" and boom, here we are, out of love... SIGH... Sure I love her, but I am SO not in love with her anymore, and I havent been in years. She's a great MOM, and all, and I hope that we can remain friends after all of this. Is she annoying? You bet she is.. She always nit picks at the stupidest things and is always uptight. I feel like I live with my mother sometimes.. Like a room mate. Yeah, we are just room mates.. And the sex? Forget about it.. Sure I get my "Birthday Sex", but it is like I am making love to a log. And how can you call that "making love"?

 

" She is always talking down to me too.. But You, my beautiful Affair Partner, make me feel soooooo special and loved, and the Sex? WOW WEE......"

 

something like that I suppose

[Brokenlady]

He told me she was smothering - unwilling and unable to give him any space. She isolated him from his family and didn't allow him to have a social life outside the marriage (meaning, he couldn't go out even occasionally with friends). He said she was tempermental and jealous, controlling and spendthrift. He said she couldn't deal with the kids - kids wouldn't listen to her and she'd call him to come home from work with every preteen tantrum. He said that she wasn't very academically bright and he was a crutch for most of her professional work. He said she was lazy, unwilling to cook, clean, or perform any household tasks she deemed "beneath her". And he said she gave lousy blow jobs.

 

I've seen the evidence of all but the last one, and it's pretty much all true. Even she, in her conversation with me, admitted much of it. In hindsight, I see that her call to me was intended to hurt me as well as to remove me from his life, not any real quest for the truth (which I think probably matters less now that they're divorced anyhow). What is more interesting to me is the chicken or the egg question as to how she became that way. Given what I know now, I lean towards the idea that he made her the way she is. I know I've been reduced to behaviors I never thought capable of and am embarrassed of by this situation and this man. Seems only logical to me that he could have that effect on more than one woman.

[Shouldacouldawoulda]

Ha ha, BL! I've heard the "lousy blow job" one too! That was from them dating, according to him though. They supposedly ignore each other now & sleep in separate rooms, and therefore don't have sex. I tend to believe him on the not having sex part....you can kind of tell with men...And I was in a $hitty marriage that ended up sexless for the last couple of years. I know it can easily happen.

[Fallen Angel]

My MM has said that he loves his wife, but he both loves and is IN LOVE with me, thereby implying that he is not IN LOVE with her.

 

He has said that she was always a good mother, and a good spouse, and has never done anything to dishonor their marriage. He says that he does not dislike her.

 

He says that she is very involved in her church. (he himself has 'lost his faith' and no longer attends church) This seems to be a big area of contention in their marriage.

 

He has only 'complained' about her once or twice in the three years we have been 'involved', (Of course for a very long time I did not know she existed, so *shrug*) and those times were times he was really upset by something she had done, and he breifly mentioned it and then let it go.

 

He has said that he was quite young when he married, they had children right away (perhaps pregnant before they got married), and that he takes his role as parent very seriously. A commitment that comes before all else. But that he spent most/all of his marriage having short term PAs. Implying that had it not been for the children, he would not have stayed married all those years, as the obligation to his children comes before his finding happiness.

 

He has implied that he is there because of his child, saying that if his child were grown he 'thinks' things would be different in regards to our relationship status.

 

He has implied that with me is where he really WANTS to be, but that he is obligated to her/their child right now.

 

He has said that he can not spend his life without me, implying that somehow we will be together.

[Spark1111]

Wow, thank you!

 

While some of those issues certainly could have been said about our marriage, I hear a lot of PROJECTION!

 

What WS are criticizing their spouse's for, are many of the qualities I would have attributed to my WS pre-affair.

 

OM/OW, ever think about that?

 

What they blame their spouse's for might be the very behavior they are exhibiting in the marriage?

[Brokenlady]

And he claimed he'd checked out of the marriage years before i came along and he was just muddling through for the kids. Sex was non-existant because he wasn't attracted to her anymore (he'd refuse every time she'd initiate, save one or two times a year, supposedly) and he said he doesn't think he was ever "in love" with her. She seemed like good marriage material at a time that he wanted to settle down and have kids. He said she never made him feel special the way I did, blah blah. The standard nonsense.

[Shouldacouldawoulda]

And, omg, my xH, made me into someone I didn't even recognize - angry, bitter, mean, lethargic, ininterested, dispassionate, unaffectionate, sexless - basically a shrew. I knew who I was toward him, I wasn't toward ANYONE else, and now that we've divorced, I'm back to being my old self with more knowledge and greater self-awareness about certain things. I thought I had severe depression, and I even went for treatment. Turns out, I didn't need an anti-depressant, I just needed to get rid of him! Horrible partners can definitely change who you are... It's quite possible he "made" her that way. I think in situations like that though, the two people have no business being together anyway.

[anne1707]

As a former WS, I can at least honestly say that I did not bad mouth my H. However I know the ex-OM wanted me too. He would sometimes ask about what was "wrong" in my marriage and I refused to answer. I was already doing enough wrong without taking the injustice of it all yet further by saying ny H was bad or neglectful when he wasn't. However I do know that sometimes I remained silent on these issues which could possibly have allowed the ex-OM to come to his own conclusions.

 

So much of having an affair is not just about lying to the BS but also to the OM/OW. After all, how would most OM/OW feel if they were told that the BS was wonderful, loving, attractive and great in bed? It is not what they want to hear, so the WS either lies or keeps quiet on these issues.

[Fallen Angel]

My MM says they married because she was pregnant, that they were only casually seeing each other a couple of times a month (He has 3 jobs - so this is totally believeable.) before she got pregnant, and it was more about just hanging out with friends and then having sex. He says they never say I love you (They married at the courthouse, no elaborate vows or ceremony.) He says he just has nothing for her, he never has, and they pretty much just ignore each other. They do not share financials. She supposedly doesn't cook or do his laundry - he does it for himself & his son. Basically, he has said they just live under the same roof so they can both raise their son. Last night, during our big conversation, he said they have been talking about getting divorced and having him move close to her so he could help with their son. He says they don't argue. He says he doesn't care enough about her to even put forth an effort to argue or do anything else. And he swears she's the same way toward him. He can get so irate and irritated with ME sometimes, so it's hard to hear that they never argue - but he says it's because he has strong feelings for me & none for her. I asked him last night why she couldn't know about us then, and he said while he wouldn't care if she knew (his family members & friends all know about me), he didn't want to purposely hurt her. I guess she found a receipt or checkbook entry where he had taken me to dinner, and she asked him why he had spent so much. She's also started wondering why he keeps his phone locked. Her xH cheated on her also, so I'm sure she's starting to sense something is going on.

 

I have picked up on some things like that as well. Though he has never come out and said "she doesn't take care of me" ie cook, clean etc. he has gone home and talked to me while doing his laundry, cooking his own dinner etc, even though she is there, and he has been gone working sometimes for a week or more.

 

I know he stopped at his house one night to get some clean clothes for work (he was coming to stay at my house that night). She had known that he was going to be coming home for an hour or so , and when he got there (after working a 12 hr day) she had prepared dinner for herself and their child, but had not made anything for him.

 

By the time he got to my house (it is about an hr drive between his house and my home) I had put together a homemade lasagne (sp?) and had it almost ready to come out of the oven when he walked in my door and was met with a kiss and a cold burbon and coke.

 

I know he is not used to being "taken care of", often being shocked when I do something like do his laundry, get up early to make him breakfast before he leaves for work, or buying him something I have heard him say that he likes. (simple things like his favorite coffee brand, or candy bar.)

 

So without saying it, he is implying that she doesn't "take care of him" the way that I do.. simply because he seems so genuinely shocked that someone would do those little things for him, without expecting something in return.

[skywriter]

The MM attempted once to ask me, "what do you think about a woman who?" I cut him off mid sentence.

 

She's not there to defend herself. I believe there are more sides to the truth than his. Especially based on his actions and here I was involved in helping him to be deceitful so.......

 

Even if she were wrong, who am I telling her?

[Hazyhead]

He didnt criticise her, or even imply anything personally negative, it was more based around the decline in their relationship and why he felt that had happened. If he cricised anyone it was himself - how he was hard to get along with and had withdrawn from her.

 

Any implications made about their sexual relationship was done through discussing our own experiences (kind of enlightening and new for both of us).

[bentnotbroken]

OW didn't have to say anything to me. He said it all in his text and she bought it. I agree with the poster that sometimes the WS is such a terror to leave with, the BS becomes whatever he hates. I became uncommunicative, why bother if everything I said was called dumb, stupid, or just plain laughed at. I began to doubt my own thoughts.

[Spark1111]

And, omg, my xH, made me into someone I didn't even recognize - angry, bitter, mean, lethargic, ininterested, dispassionate, unaffectionate, sexless - basically a shrew. I knew who I was toward him, I wasn't toward ANYONE else, and now that we've divorced, I'm back to being my old self with more knowledge and greater self-awareness about certain things. I thought I had severe depression, and I even went for treatment. Turns out, I didn't need an anti-depressant, I just needed to get rid of him! Horrible partners can definitely change who you are... It's quite possible he "made" her that way. I think in situations like that though, the two people have no business being together anyway.

 

Shouldacoulda, this is very interesting to me because my perception, and life is all about perception, is that after a very difficult time in our lives....I was somehow blamed for it all. Somewhat unfairly so.

 

But no matter what I tried, even suggesting counseling, he grew distant, angry, critical, and very, very, successfully pushed me away....and I gave up.

 

So while he is out having an affair unbeknownst to me, I too grew lazy, distant, somewhat angry, and fantasized about divorce after the youngest was successfully esconced in college.I, too, didn't like who I was becoming. A lot of truth here in your post.

 

I WAS DEPRESSED. Just couldn't put a finger on why....why he had stopped loving me.

[Spark1111]

Sparky,

 

I feel that it more than not is the PICTURE that gets painted regarding the State of the Union other than "personal" attacks against the BS...

 

"yeah, you know, it has just been eroding over time, we grew apart.. Sure, we tried a little here and there, but we always seemed to get "busy with life" and boom, here we are, out of love... SIGH... Sure I love her, but I am SO not in love with her anymore, and I havent been in years. She's a great MOM, and all, and I hope that we can remain friends after all of this. Is she annoying? You bet she is.. She always nit picks at the stupidest things and is always uptight. I feel like I live with my mother sometimes.. Like a room mate. Yeah, we are just room mates.. And the sex? Forget about it.. Sure I get my "Birthday Sex", but it is like I am making love to a log. And how can you call that "making love"?

 

" She is always talking down to me too.. But You, my beautiful Affair Partner, make me feel soooooo special and loved, and the Sex? WOW WEE......"

 

something like that I suppose

 

Spot on, Stampdaddy! Spot on....:)

 

I can just hear it.

 

And what long term relationship does NOT have these issues, IMHO.

 

As for the log, it comes alive when the mechanical robot goes home!

 

And no, I wouldn't call it making love by any means because it takes two loving, committed partners to make love.

 

One thing my husband's affair taught me ABOUT HIM, was how sweetly romantic he could be.

 

He had CHOSEN not to be that way with me for a very, very long time.

[Spark1111]

As a former WS, I can at least honestly say that I did not bad mouth my H. However I know the ex-OM wanted me too. He would sometimes ask about what was "wrong" in my marriage and I refused to answer. I was already doing enough wrong without taking the injustice of it all yet further by saying ny H was bad or neglectful when he wasn't. However I do know that sometimes I remained silent on these issues which could possibly have allowed the ex-OM to come to his own conclusions.

 

So much of having an affair is not just about lying to the BS but also to the OM/OW. After all, how would most OM/OW feel if they were told that the BS was wonderful, loving, attractive and great in bed? It is not what they want to hear, so the WS either lies or keeps quiet on these issues.

 

Ah.....the lies of omission. Just say nothing and let the AP assume the worst.

 

Very, very honest of you Annie.

 

And I will assume the same for my WS.

 

She SO ADMIRED his devotion to his children as she was a divorced single-mom and her xH was not so kind to his own child.

 

My WS stepped into the role of superdad to her child because one; it so impressed her, and two; she assumed he must be staying in our loveless marriage for the sake of his children.

 

Meanwhile, I'm cooking, cleaning, schlepping three kids in and out of college, solving their problems and answering the constant question of "Where's Dad?" with "Working late again, I guess."

[Spark1111]

My MM has said that he loves his wife, but he both loves and is IN LOVE with me, thereby implying that he is not IN LOVE with her.

 

He has said that she was always a good mother, and a good spouse, and has never done anything to dishonor their marriage. He says that he does not dislike her.

 

He says that she is very involved in her church. (he himself has 'lost his faith' and no longer attends church) This seems to be a big area of contention in their marriage.

 

He has only 'complained' about her once or twice in the three years we have been 'involved', (Of course for a very long time I did not know she existed, so *shrug*) and those times were times he was really upset by something she had done, and he breifly mentioned it and then let it go.

 

He has said that he was quite young when he married, they had children right away (perhaps pregnant before they got married), and that he takes his role as parent very seriously. A commitment that comes before all else. But that he spent most/all of his marriage having short term PAs. Implying that had it not been for the children, he would not have stayed married all those years, as the obligation to his children comes before his finding happiness.

 

He has implied that he is there because of his child, saying that if his child were grown he 'thinks' things would be different in regards to our relationship status.

 

He has implied that with me is where he really WANTS to be, but that he is obligated to her/their child right now.

 

He has said that he can not spend his life without me, implying that somehow we will be together.

 

Fallen Angel, if you are happy, I'm happy. No judgement here and I hope it works out for the both of you, I really do.

 

How old is the child? How long are you willing to wait?

 

NOTHING was more devastating to my children than the discovery their father was cheating on their mother.

 

That was not the man they saw, loved, admired, respected.

 

He could be difficult, sometimes impatient, but always had their best interests at heart.

 

Devastate their mother? Never! They had never seen me cry other than sentimental tears and at the funeral of my brother.

 

Separation, divorce would have hurt them and me for a while, but nothing could hurt them worse than seeing me brought to my knees.

 

I truly believe the truth hurts for a while, but lies and deception hurt for a lifetime, especially when it is parent/child relationship.

 

And in the end, the love relationship modelled between a man and a woman, whether it be spouses or OW/OM, is the relationship YOUR CHILD will have in adulthood.

 

I know so many OM/OW find this admirable in their AP, and not wanting to hurt a child is one of the most admirable qualities anyone could have.

 

But a loveless marriage does hurt them so much more, IMHO.

[skywriter]

But a loveless marriage does hurt them so much more, IMHO.

 

 

Hear, Here!

[Spark1111]

OW didn't have to say anything to me. He said it all in his text and she bought it. I agree with the poster that sometimes the WS is such a terror to leave with, the BS becomes whatever he hates. I became uncommunicative, why bother if everything I said was called dumb, stupid, or just plain laughed at. I began to doubt my own thoughts.

 

So true Bent!

 

Since I couldn't seem to anything right, I stopped trying to do anything for him.

 

Also, there was no Quid Pro Quo. None, whatsoever, on his part. Not one kind gesture. Just bills, logistics of child-rearing, arguments over the same old bs, and I couldn't seem to turn it around.

 

I felt invisible to him. How sad.

 

So whatever he told her, he will have to live with, because I think it does become a distancing dynamic, and certainly much of it would be true for the time he crashed into her.

 

But for reasons of unhappiness only known to him, I would have to say he checked out on the marriage right before he crashed into her.

[Fallen Angel]

Fallen Angel, if you are happy, I'm happy. No judgement here and I hope it works out for the both of you, I really do.

 

How old is the child? How long are you willing to wait?

 

NOTHING was more devastating to my children than the discovery their father was cheating on their mother.

 

That was not the man they saw, loved, admired, respected.

 

He could be difficult, sometimes impatient, but always had their best interests at heart.

 

Devastate their mother? Never! They had never seen me cry other than sentimental tears and at the funeral of my brother.

 

Separation, divorce would have hurt them and me for a while, but nothing could hurt them worse than seeing me brought to my knees.

 

I truly believe the truth hurts for a while, but lies and deception hurt for a lifetime, especially when it is parent/child relationship.

 

And in the end, the love relationship modelled between a man and a woman, whether it be spouses or OW/OM, is the relationship YOUR CHILD will have in adulthood.

 

I know so many OM/OW find this admirable in their AP, and not wanting to hurt a child is one of the most admirable qualities anyone could have.

 

But a loveless marriage does hurt them so much more, IMHO.

 

I quite agree that being in a loveless marriage is worse for the children. They see it, no matter how hard the parents try not to show it. They feel the disconnect, and it effects them. I have told him as much, but as this is apparently the way they have raised all their children... *shrug* He seems to think the kids do not know. Though I am sure they do....

 

Most of their marriage he was in the military, gone for months sometimes a year or more at a time. Not only deployed to war zones, but to overseas bases, where she chose not to follow, or the family was not allowed to follow. So his wife has learned to live independent of him, long ago, and since his retirement from the military, that seems to have not changed. They live mostly separate lives, he found work that keeps him gone a majority of the time, and she lives her life the same whether he is there or not. Not a good model for the kids in my opinion.. but, it is not my marriage, therefor not my place to say anything. I have offered up my opinion to him, he will do with it what he will.

 

As to how long I will stay, the truth is, I do not know. I know that I become less satisfied everyday. I love this man with all that I am, but I was not made to be an OW. it is not in my nature, and it is slowly tearing my soul into pieces. I suppose when it is torn small enough, I will find the strength to move on. I hope that is sooner rather than later.. his youngest child has 3 more years at home, I do not have three more years as an OW left in me... the breaking point is fast approaching... I just hope it happens before I am so broken that there is no way to heal from it.

[2sure]

There is no way of knowing everything unless you come right out and ask him and tell him you need his answer verified.

 

Tell him his protectiveness of his phone has made you anxious and paranoid and that the marriage is in trouble.

 

Whether he is cheating, who knows - but he is betraying you. He is doing something that is undermining your relationship and marriage and he does not want you to know about it. Period.

 

Openness and honesty has never hurt a marriage, privacy has.

[bentnotbroken]

So true Bent!

 

Since I couldn't seem to anything right, I stopped trying to do anything for him.

 

Also, there was no Quid Pro Quo. None, whatsoever, on his part. Not one kind gesture. Just bills, logistics of child-rearing, arguments over the same old bs, and I couldn't seem to turn it around.

 

I felt invisible to him. How sad.

 

So whatever he told her, he will have to live with, because I think it does become a distancing dynamic, and certainly much of it would be true for the time he crashed into her.

 

But for reasons of unhappiness only known to him, I would have to say he checked out on the marriage right before he crashed into her.

 

 

I actually have flashes of resentment of him wasting my time. Then I think of my kids and I wouldn't have them without him. But he knew all along that I would never met his expectations. It was why I was chosen by him. Someone he could groom, manipulate, stand on to make himself feel bigger than he was.

 

As I matured he became even more controlling. I admit I was weak in believing he loved me for real, I know better now. I could have never done anything that would have met his standard. OW did the same thing to her H. He wasn't going to met her standards. Two NPD personalities together would never work. I remember my therapist saying to me that he and I should never have been together and she is amazed it lasted as long as it did. I don't know if that was a testament to my love, my fear or the co-dependency of our relationship.

[HappyAgain]

And, omg, my xH, made me into someone I didn't even recognize - angry, bitter, mean, lethargic, ininterested, dispassionate, unaffectionate, sexless - basically a shrew. I knew who I was toward him, I wasn't toward ANYONE else, and now that we've divorced, I'm back to being my old self with more knowledge and greater self-awareness about certain things. I thought I had severe depression, and I even went for treatment. Turns out, I didn't need an anti-depressant, I just needed to get rid of him! Horrible partners can definitely change who you are... It's quite possible he "made" her that way. I think in situations like that though, the two people have no business being together anyway.

 

 

OMG, that sounds exactly like me. After being so abused by his behaviour and his affairs I became someone that even "I" didn't recognize anymore. And like you, it was only with him that I was that person - everyone else in my life loved me. I became insecure and depressed never knowing if what he was saying was the truth, who he was writing love letters to this time, what he was saying about me to others this time, always wondering if he was staying with me just for financial security (that turned out to be true.)

 

Well, when I finally got the truth out that he was with me simply because he had no financial means to support himself and that he was chasing after any available whore he could find, he was out. Realizing I was married to a narcissist, I thought it would have been harder to heal from the experience but almost as soon as I got rid of him I became happier. Goodbye therapy, medication, depression - welcome happy me!

[Spark1111]

Oh 2sure, I have asked and asked.

 

We are in R now and it going pretty well. He PERCEIVES he never said a bad word about me, but I am pretty sure much was IMPLIED.

 

Plus, I think that not bad-mouthing me to his AP was more an attempt to garner her admiration than as a gentlemanly act on my behalf.

 

Because it IS admirable when a man will not denigrate his spouse, or any other woman, to his AP, but just allude to "problems in the marriage."

 

Women think, wow, what a respectful guy. It's part of the affair personna, IMHO.