What did your ap say or imply about their spouse and marriage?

[anne1707]

Plus, I think that not bad-mouthing me to his AP was more an attempt to garner her admiration than as a gentlemanly act on my behalf.

 

Maybe, maybe not. I did not bad mouth my H because it felt so wrong to do that. What I was doing to my H was already unforgivable but there was no way that I was going to lie and say that he was a bad husband. I know I could get bashed for this but I respected my H too much to do that to him (yes, I do get the hypocrisy of that considering I was having an affair ).

[2sure]

You guys must think I am out of my mind. My previous reply was directed to another thread...but thanks so much for trying to pretend like it made sense!!

 

I DO have something to share here though.

 

When I was OW, exclusively dating married men...regardless of HOW I met them...they always immediately introduced the subject of "I'm not happy at home because..." Always some vague reference to the wife, the lack of sex, respect, etc etc.

 

I always discouraged this kind of conversation first because justification was not necessary - I didnt need it. And also because it is inconvenient to date a married guy , who wants to listen to him whine too?? But some of them actually required that - them being the victim of their circumstance, or wanting to establish an emotional "friendship" was something they for some reason needed for the affair to meet their ideals.

 

So - my point. MOST of them, after realizing they did not have to complain about their wives to justify the affair to me...didnt. Not only that but over the course of time I found that each of them was quite happy with their spouse. They just had this handy litany of complaints available should OW require it or should they themselves require it not to feel guilty.

 

Just my personal experience.

[Fallen Angel]

You guys must think I am out of my mind. My previous reply was directed to another thread...but thanks so much for trying to pretend like it made sense!!

 

I DO have something to share here though.

 

When I was OW, exclusively dating married men...regardless of HOW I met them...they always immediately introduced the subject of "I'm not happy at home because..." Always some vague reference to the wife, the lack of sex, respect, etc etc.

 

I always discouraged this kind of conversation first because justification was not necessary - I didnt need it. And also because it is inconvenient to date a married guy , who wants to listen to him whine too?? But some of them actually required that - them being the victim of their circumstance, or wanting to establish an emotional "friendship" was something they for some reason needed for the affair to meet their ideals.

 

So - my point. MOST of them, after realizing they did not have to complain about their wives to justify the affair to me...didnt. Not only that but over the course of time I found that each of them was quite happy with their spouse. They just had this handy litany of complaints available should OW require it or should they themselves require it not to feel guilty.

 

Just my personal experience.

 

LMAO.. your response made no sense to me, but as others jumped in and started talking to you as though it belonged here, I thought perhaps something had been deleted and I had missed it..

 

Stuff like that seems to happen alot around here.. there was a thread where someone insulted me.. when I first read it I didn't have time to respond as I was headed out the door to work, when I got home, it was gone, I thought I was losing my mind, searching for a post that no longer existed.. lmao...

 

It happens.. lmao.. if I had been you though I would have just acted like I meant it to be here all along though.. lmao...

[skylarblue]

What are some of the things your AP has said, implied, alluded to regarding their spouse?

 

It’s weird because the first 1-3yrs my MM never said anything negative or positive about his W. He didn’t talk about her as a person/personality at all. And then gradually he started to make negative comments about her, usually while telling of “something stupid” that she’d done. He’s always referring to her as a constant and unprovoked nag. He says she doesn’t interest him anymore. She’s never satisfied with anything that he does. He doesn’t like the way she talks to their kids. He calls her a b*tch/stupid b*tch, an embarrassment, and a big lump in bed. He doesn’t do it frequently (other than “nag” or “bitch”), but it’s been very noticeable over the past year. I don’t know if he’s always had problems with his W, if he just feels comfortable enough now with me, or if our R is causing him to feel negative towards her. I know he can’t be that miserable because he doesn’t want to get caught or divorced. And she can’t be that bad. I’ve seen his house so I know she cleans. He calls me from upstairs when she’s downstairs making dinner so I know she cooks. He’s been worried or questioned at times about his clothing in the hamper so I know she does his laundry. And he works constantly (sometimes 16hrs days), she’s a SAHM so I know she always has the kids. I think he comes down on her unnecessarily hard sometimes. I just sit and listen and tell him how he’s so right and she’s so wrong (even if she’s right).

[bentnotbroken]

What are some of the things your AP has said, implied, alluded to regarding their spouse?

 

It’s weird because the first 1-3yrs my MM never said anything negative or positive about his W. He didn’t talk about her as a person/personality at all. And then gradually he started to make negative comments about her, usually while telling of “something stupid” that she’d done. He’s always referring to her as a constant and unprovoked nag. He says she doesn’t interest him anymore. She’s never satisfied with anything that he does. He doesn’t like the way she talks to their kids. He calls her a b*tch/stupid b*tch, an embarrassment, and a big lump in bed. He doesn’t do it frequently (other than “nag” or “bitch”), but it’s been very noticeable over the past year. I don’t know if he’s always had problems with his W, if he just feels comfortable enough now with me, or if our R is causing him to feel negative towards her. I know he can’t be that miserable because he doesn’t want to get caught or divorced. And she can’t be that bad. I’ve seen his house so I know she cleans. He calls me from upstairs when she’s downstairs making dinner so I know she cooks. He’s been worried or questioned at times about his clothing in the hamper so I know she does his laundry. And he works constantly (sometimes 16hrs days), she’s a SAHM so I know she always has the kids. I think he comes down on her unnecessarily hard sometimes. I just sit and listen and tell him how he’s so right and she’s so wrong (even if she’s right).

 

 

You do know that is encouraging for him right?

[LucreziaBorgia]

I don't remember any of the guys I was with having anything really negative to say. Mainly stuff like 'we just lost the passion' or 'I sleep on the couch because she snores' or 'we live like roommates' - stuff like that. Only once did someone say it was because of his fiance's body - but she was in her late thirties at the time with three kids and I was just turning seventeen, and he was comparing our bodies while we were in bed. That was the only really negative thing I can remember. Mostly it was just 'familiarity breeds contempt' sort of stuff.

[John Who]

Here is a list of things I told OW about my W

 

1. I am not in love with her

 

2. We do not sleep in the same room.

 

3. We do not have sex.

 

4. We have nothing in common.

 

5. She bitches to much.

 

6. I am only there for the kids/financial reasons

 

7.she is not there for me emotionaly.

 

I LIED,1-6 were lies,7 was true.

 

I told OW these things because,I had to make her feel special,like she is the one the only one who understands me,after all she was competing with a women I went home to every night,and whether you OW admit it or not you do compete or atleast try to compete with the W.

 

If I had told OW W and I have great sex and all the positive things about her do you really think she would be happy about that......aaahh no.

[NoIDidn't]

 

If I had told OW W and I have great sex and all the positive things about her do you really think she would be happy about that......aaahh no.

 

I think an OW wouldn't be happy about hearing that you are happy in your marriage, but in my experience, it only makes them try harder.

 

I know what you are saying here, but I think my H said those things at the time because he truly believed them. Doesn't make it right, but it was what he felt at the time.

[JoyDevine]

Here is a list of things I told OW about my W

 

1. I am not in love with her

 

2. We do not sleep in the same room.

 

3. We do not have sex.

 

4. We have nothing in common.

 

5. She bitches to much.

 

6. I am only there for the kids/financial reasons

 

7.she is not there for me emotionaly.

 

I LIED,1-6 were lies,7 was true.

 

Why did you have an OW?

Just because 7 was missing?

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by bentnotbroken

Originally Posted by skylarblue

…I think he comes down on her unnecessarily hard sometimes. I just sit and listen and tell him how he’s so right and she’s so wrong (even if she’s right).

You do know that is encouraging for him right?

 

I’m not sure what you mean. Encouraging for him to do what? I know he’s just talking typical MM bs. I know he doesn’t actually treat his W bad (physically, emotionally, or verbally). I just sit there and play my role.

[moaningmyrtle]

I have picked up on some things like that as well. Though he has never come out and said "she doesn't take care of me" ie cook, clean etc. he has gone home and talked to me while doing his laundry, cooking his own dinner etc, even though she is there, and he has been gone working sometimes for a week or more.

 

I know he stopped at his house one night to get some clean clothes for work (he was coming to stay at my house that night). She had known that he was going to be coming home for an hour or so , and when he got there (after working a 12 hr day) she had prepared dinner for herself and their child, but had not made anything for him.

 

By the time he got to my house (it is about an hr drive between his house and my home) I had put together a homemade lasagne (sp?) and had it almost ready to come out of the oven when he walked in my door and was met with a kiss and a cold burbon and coke.

 

I know he is not used to being "taken care of", often being shocked when I do something like do his laundry, get up early to make him breakfast before he leaves for work, or buying him something I have heard him say that he likes. (simple things like his favorite coffee brand, or candy bar.)

 

So without saying it, he is implying that she doesn't "take care of him" the way that I do.. simply because he seems so genuinely shocked that someone would do those little things for him, without expecting something in return.

 

There are other possible explanations for this type of behviour - I know because I saw my own H did it.

 

For instance he could say things like:

 

"I'll only be home for a short time and I don't know exactly what time so don't cook me a meal". This allows him to eat with the OW with whom he is going to spend the night.

 

Or,

 

"Don't wash/iron my good shirts because I prefer to do it myself so I know it's done right."

 

Both of these sorts of things allow the MM to subtly imply to the OW that his W does not take care of him.

 

In my case I read in e-mails to the OW:

 

"The boys loved playing with the Game-boys I got them for Christmas". In fact the game-boys were selected and paid for by me, wrapped by me and then passed onto his parents and my parents to give as gifts for Christmas - and it was my idea!

 

Another time I read in an e-mail "I took the kids to such and such a restaurant for their birthday". Again the whole thing was booked and arranged by me, I made the phone calls to family members and paid the deposit as we were a big party.

 

The less than subtle implication was that he was the main caring parent.

 

My H has always done the ironing in our house mainly because most of our ironing is his shirts and he likes them done his way. I'm happy with this as he does my few clothes as well. I do all the washing, drying, sorting etc plus shop for the washing powder (you get the picture). I saw in an e-mail to the OW where he emphasized that he had to do all the ironing in our house.

[bentnotbroken]

Originally Posted by bentnotbroken

Originally Posted by skylarblue

…I think he comes down on her unnecessarily hard sometimes. I just sit and listen and tell him how he’s so right and she’s so wrong (even if she’s right).

You do know that is encouraging for him right?

 

I’m not sure what you mean. Encouraging for him to do what? I know he’s just talking typical MM bs. I know he doesn’t actually treat his W bad (physically, emotionally, or verbally). I just sit there and play my role.

 

 

He does abuse her emotionally and mentally. An A is emotional abuse. I know a lot of people don't see it that way. But no one can say harsh and nasty things about you to someone else and it not show up in their actions toward you. What is in the heart always shows itself. Yes, I understand you are playing your role.

[OW_WS]

I should start with establishing that ours is not a classic A, no feelings there or supposed to be there, I guess our PA is more of FWB and work mates scenario so it's probable you're not gonna be able to use my answer but for this side to be represented too...

 

I never badmouth my SO to MM, in fact he nearly never comes up in anything other than polite conversation and in the few times that my MM seemed to be going the direction of wanting to uncover any dirt it's been cut short.

 

MM has two modes and certainly talks about her too much for my taste. One in polite, friendly conversation -say on a plane or while working late or over lunch- where he may complain calmly and even half jokingly about her being a nag or not cleaning the house or having a bad career choice or the complete lack of passion BUT I react and cut it short and he comes to and adds positives about her intelligence, her looking good, what a great mother she is, etc.

 

Another mode, which is starting to bother me more and more and while I am trying to curb is in the midst of sex and is, I suspect, mostly fantasy talk. It's a mixture of how great it would be if she was suspicious, how terrible she is in bed, how she can't do this or that with comparisons and compliments to my appearence and my abilities and in more extreme cases how great it would be if she got a lover herself or left him. When this happened I've had to halt all proceedings and explain clearly that even if it's "just" turn-on talk it's not making me feel comfortable and it needs to stop.

 

I'd like to claim I am coming down on this because I am such a fighter for all women or some such but in reality it is because I do NOT want him to even contemplate anything other than good sex between us, any emotional talk, any complaints about her and innuendos about leaving mean the beginning of the end for us in my book.

 

With that said, sicko bedroom talk aside, when he has complaints the things he claims that I believe him on, are that they are severely incompatible sexually despite trying, that while they love each other in a friends way, she lacks passion completely by personality as well as now lacks drive to keep up with his libido (a MM classic and DUH she does, he's like a teenager!) that she is unwilling to go to MC again (they're remarried, been to MC before) and so on. I've often tried to give him ideas on how some of the immediate issues could be sorted, have insisted he does little acts to treat her better, etc and that too, not because I like her -which I do, the woman deserves a medal in so many ways!- but because I have a vested interest in the two of them being happy and remaining together.

[OW_WS]

Why did you have an OW?

Just because 7 was missing?

 

Why wouldn't 7 be strong enough of a reason? To say it was "just" that it would be to imagine the size of the need he had for it and label it as "manageable".

[Virgo1982]

Yes, it sounds quite sad to me. Unrequited love is a painful thing. Funny someone would be willing to put someone else through the same situation to meet their needs. But, people treat you the way you allow them to. So, do what you have to-whoever you are.

[fooled once]

He said he had a loveless, sexless marriage - standard MM speak for "I am bored and want to cheat".

 

He said they rarely talked and had nothing in common.

[skylarblue]

Originally Posted by bentnotbroken

He does abuse her emotionally and mentally. An A is emotional abuse. I know a lot of people don't see it that way. But no one can say harsh and nasty things about you to someone else and it not show up in their actions toward you. What is in the heart always shows itself. Yes, I understand you are playing your role.

 

When I mentioned I just sit there and play my role, I wasn’t doing so gloatingly like I think you took it (I apologize if I am mistaken). I was just making reference that my position is to agree he’s always right regardless of my own opinion. As far as an A is emotional abuse, you and I have disagreed on this in the past. However, something you said in a response to me before kinda stuck with me. Something along the lines (I’m paraphrasing from recollection) of when a BW has a feeling that something is wrong and goes directly to the source (her H) for the truth and he continuously lies to her and gaslights (I had to look that up) her and makes her think she’s done something wrong in asking, that is emotionally abuse. Although, I’m still not ready to call in his situation abuse, I do understand what you are saying and can’t say I wholly disagree with you anymore. Because his negative comments about his W have been very noticeable to me lately, I’ve been wondering if it does show up in [his] actions toward [her]. Again, not in a belittling way, but just is he making less of an effort to be a good H to her.

[Spark1111]

There are other possible explanations for this type of behviour - I know because I saw my own H did it.

 

For instance he could say things like:

 

"I'll only be home for a short time and I don't know exactly what time so don't cook me a meal". This allows him to eat with the OW with whom he is going to spend the night.

 

MM, good point!

 

I remember never really knowing where he was or what or when he'd be home. A new, high=power position had been attained by him. I'd ask him to call if he'd be home for dinner.

 

He would waltz in last minute and say he had a business dinner, he'd be out.

 

He'd then run to her home because she was available that evening and complain I hadn't cooked for him! HA!

 

Yes, my efforts in the marriage were constantly spun or minimized by him to her.

 

Just amazing!

[Spark1111]

LOL, Stampy, you're not even an OW! I did bold what I've heard my MM say. My MM was actually very kind RE his W. But he did tell me something private I wished he didn't. I think he was trying to convince me that her parts just don't work right anymore and perhaps that made it all right to go ahead and cheat, I don't know.

 

Spark, do tell about the conversation! I can't believe she finally talked to you!

 

Oh God.....she hates me, and I was very surprised by her level of hysteria and instability. Not what I expected at all WF!

 

Some affairs are less about turning towards the AP, and have more to do with revenge against the BS. I think my situation has a strong componenet of revenge.

 

So, while he never said anything mean about me, I'm sure much was IMPLIED.

 

I started a thread on it but am not savvy enough to post it here.

 

However, I have always appreciated your perspective. If you care to read it and let me know your thoughts, I'd be honored.

[Brokenlady]

I LIED,1-6 were lies,7 was true.

 

I told OW these things because,I had to make her feel special,like she is the one the only one who understands me,after all she was competing with a women I went home to every night,and whether you OW admit it or not you do compete or atleast try to compete with the W.

 

If I had told OW W and I have great sex and all the positive things about her do you really think she would be happy about that......aaahh no.

 

You don't deserve your W if the above is true. It sounds like you're gloating, and that's nauseating.

[anne1707]

You don't deserve your W if the above is true. It sounds like you're gloating, and that's nauseating.

 

 

I don't think he's gloating. I think he is just being honest. I am sorry but so often on here I see the OW/OM thinking that what they get told by the WS must be the truth but why? I admit I lied to the ex-OM just as I lied to my H. I did not want to leave my H so I tried to keep the status quo of the affair by not telling the ex-OM things he would not want to hear (e.g. holidays etc I was planning with my H). I was a complete cake eater who did not want to end their marriage - like most WS.

[Brokenlady]

I think my trouble is that I can't conceive of ever treating another person that way, of being so incredibly selfish and careless with the feelings of others that are near and dear to me. Of lying to those I love just to get what I want. (One could argue I did something similar to DM's xW, but I didn't know her - I wasn't purporting to care about her then betraying her.) How a WS who claims to care for either woman can be so heartless is frightening, really.

 

And for my part, I had a reason to believe it. I saw alot of what he told me for himself, and he did leave his xW and divorce her. We got engaged. I had reason to trust him. Until I didn't....

Edited December 29, 2009 by Brokenlady

[anne1707]

Brokenlady

 

Apologies if I have the wrong understanding but it almost seems as if you think is wrong for the WS to lie to the OM/OW but fine for them to lie to their spouse.

 

I lied to both the ex-OM and my H. I consider what I did to my H far worse (and not just because of the commitment we made to each other when we got married) but because he had no idea whatsover that I could have been lying whereas it would not have taken much surely for the ex-OM to realise that I was lying to my H so I would also of been capable of lying to him.

[Brokenlady]

Brokenlady

 

Apologies if I have the wrong understanding but it almost seems as if you think is wrong for the WS to lie to the OM/OW but fine for them to lie to their spouse.

 

I lied to both the ex-OM and my H. I consider what I did to my H far worse (and not just because of the commitment we made to each other when we got married) but because he had no idea whatsover that I could have been lying whereas it would not have taken much surely for the ex-OM to realise that I was lying to my H so I would also of been capable of lying to him.

 

Yeah, that wasn't what I meant. It's not fine to lie to anyone you claim to love. Bad enough to do it to someone new who shouldn't be involving themselves with a married person, but worse to a spouse. Either way, I don't understand how someone can do that to people (either one) if they truly believe they love them. I can make more sense out of lying to one or the other, particularly the WS who claim to not be "in love" with their spouses (though its wrong either way), but lying to both suggests a real heartlessness, and an inability to actually love anyone but themselves, if that.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Brokenlady

[anne1707]

I can understand why you say heartless but after being in that situation, I can promise you that is not the case. I do not want to play down the harm and pain I caused but I was also in a mess emotionally.

 

I hated lying and knew that I was being unfair and selfish. Some of it was done to protect me and some to protect others. I was well and truly in the affair fog. I had got myself into a situation which I really did not know how to handle - no excuse, I know - but affairs are messy.