What did your ap say or imply about their spouse and marriage?

[hopeless4u]

It is two years since DDAY, and I recently, FINALLY, spoke to the OW in our triangle.

 

At first, she seemed cold, and her tone of voice was somewhat superior. During the conversation, her tone changed because I think I finally became a real person to her, and hell, I AM a nice person.

 

So while my WS has sworn he never bad-mouthed me, I am sure many, many negative qualities and situations regarding me were IMPLIED to her, because initially, she seemed to have a very negative impression of me.

 

What are some of the things your AP has said, implied, alluded to regarding their spouse?

 

Please be honest.

 

 

My xMM was never horrible about his W, he said he loved her but didn't think he was in love with her and possible never had been.

 

He said she didn't have many friends as she could be quite judgmental toward people and couldn't forgive easily. (this wasn't said in a nasty way but during a conversation we were having about support)

 

He also said she was a good W and mother and the reason he was so torn was because she hadn't done anything wrong and did not deserve the heartache.

[John Who]

It's interesting that competition would be brought into the thread.

 

Shortly after the A started, I was asked out by a single, very available man.

 

Granted the MM, is telling me that he won't hold me back, encourages me to seek out available men.(Not that I needed him too.)

 

So I enjoy the single guys company, and likewise does, he. We make it a regular thing, to see ,and talk to one another. The MM, meanwhile is asking questions, abt this guy. Coming to my house, waiting for me to arrive home, after going out with him.

 

His exact quote to me was, "Now I have some competition". Looking back I realise, the underlying ,meaning now. It was a game in his mind. To hell with a persons feelings, mine, his W's. It's a game.

 

 

It's not that it's a game, although some people may see it as that.

 

Obviously A's do not start off as competion,but in alot of cases that is what happens.Whether some want to admit it or not you do or will compete for MM/MW in some way,shape,or form,and you do not have to be insecure to do this.

 

I'm glad you understand what I am trying to say SW.

 

But I guess it's a touchy subject for some people.

[Hazyhead]

Competetion doesn't have to be about being the best or coming out on top; if nothing else don't most OP compete for their time? (I know I'd have to have held my hand up to that one.)

[girlwithglasses]

He said she was a ball busting b!tch, mean, vindictive, petty, a shrew and crazy. He said he never intended to have a relationship with her, never loved her, but she was an easy lay and he was too lazy to find someone better so they ended up together. He said after 5 years of stalling he eventually gave up and agreed to get married because he was too lazy to get rid of her and he felt bad because she had been waiting around begging to get married for so many years. He said he regretted it even before the wedding was over and he wanted a divorce within weeks of getting married. He said she got pregnant on purpose behind his back even though he specifically told her he did not ever want children with her. He said after that he had resigned himself to staying for at least 18 years. He said he was relieved when he caught her cheating because it meant he could leave without guilt.

 

We've been together for several years now and I have been able to confirm that everything he said about her was true.

[anne1707]

He said she got pregnant on purpose behind his back even though he specifically told her he did not ever want children with her. .

 

Well they must have been doing something together

[bentnotbroken]

He said she was a ball busting b!tch, mean, vindictive, petty, a shrew and crazy. He said he never intended to have a relationship with her, never loved her, but she was an easy lay and he was too lazy to find someone better so they ended up together. He said after 5 years of stalling he eventually gave up and agreed to get married because he was too lazy to get rid of her and he felt bad because she had been waiting around begging to get married for so many years. He said he regretted it even before the wedding was over and he wanted a divorce within weeks of getting married. He said she got pregnant on purpose behind his back even though he specifically told her he did not ever want children with her. He said after that he had resigned himself to staying for at least 18 years. He said he was relieved when he caught her cheating because it meant he could leave without guilt.

 

We've been together for several years now and I have been able to confirm that everything he said about her was true.

 

 

So you have been in the private moments with him and her and confirmed all of this. If he didn't want to have kids, why did he stick his penis in her unprotected for? I mean if you don't want kids, then YOU take the steps not to. You don't depend on someone you don't like or trust. Is he still married to the cheating wife or is he still just cheating and claiming she is a cheater?

Edited December 31, 2009 by bentnotbroken

[girlwithglasses]

So you have been in the private moments with him and her and confirmed all of this. If he didn't want to have kids, why did he stick his penis in her unprotected for? I mean if you don't want kids, then YOU take the steps not to. You don't depend on someone you don't like or trust. Is he still married to the cheating wife or is he still just cheating and claiming she is a cheater?

 

Yes I have spent sufficient time with her to confirm that she is crazier that a ****house rat. He divorced her so that she could be free to date her OM (who also happened to be a friend of his). The OM dumped her, however we have been very happily married for several years now. I am stepmother to their children and therefore I unfortunately get to deal with her on a somewhat regular basis. In the time we've been married I have also become close friends with several people who knew them as a married couple. They all remained friends with my husband but avoid her like the plague because she is a nut. My in-laws also refuse to have anything to do with her. I also had to get a restraining order against her and even her former best friend supported me and has now become a good friend of mine.

 

As for how they ended up pregnant, they are both older and their marriage occurred before HIV became widely known. I'm not sure how old you are but back in those days people (especially married couples) were not as strict about condom use. They had the birth control pill and a shot could cure most diseases. He had unprotected sex resulting in pregnancy after they were already married and after they had already agreed that they would not have any children. She simply stopped taking the pill because she wanted to get pregnant but never told him or gave him a say.

 

Even today, many married couples use the birth control pill as their chosen method of contraception. It is not some far-fetched cockamamie outlandish newfangled controversial idea. You couldn't possibly be advocating for married couples to use condoms on top of the pill because one of them might be lying about birth control use.

 

Frankly, I don't understand how or why any woman would consider it acceptable to trick a man into having a child she knows he does not want. It's horribly unfair to all parties involved including the child. By the way, my husband is a great and loving father.

[GreenEyedLady]

He said she was a ball busting b!tch, mean, vindictive, petty, a shrew and crazy. He said he never intended to have a relationship with her, never loved her, but she was an easy lay and he was too lazy to find someone better so they ended up together. He said after 5 years of stalling he eventually gave up and agreed to get married because he was too lazy to get rid of her and he felt bad because she had been waiting around begging to get married for so many years. He said he regretted it even before the wedding was over and he wanted a divorce within weeks of getting married. He said she got pregnant on purpose behind his back even though he specifically told her he did not ever want children with her. He said after that he had resigned himself to staying for at least 18 years. He said he was relieved when he caught her cheating because it meant he could leave without guilt.

 

We've been together for several years now and I have been able to confirm that everything he said about her was true.

 

Blameshift much?

 

Your H married his XW for the same reason he married you: HE WANTED TO.

 

No wonder she became a ball-busting bitch...He apparently DESERVED IT!

 

GEL

[girlwithglasses]

Blameshift much?

 

Your H married his XW for the same reason he married you: HE WANTED TO.

 

No wonder she became a ball-busting bitch...He apparently DESERVED IT!

 

GEL

 

How did you come to that conclusion? Maybe you know him better than I do?? Or perhaps you know her?

[bentnotbroken]

Yes I have spent sufficient time with her to confirm that she is crazier that a ****house rat. He divorced her so that she could be free to date her OM (who also happened to be a friend of his). The OM dumped her, however we have been very happily married for several years now. I am stepmother to their children and therefore I unfortunately get to deal with her on a somewhat regular basis. In the time we've been married I have also become close friends with several people who knew them as a married couple. They all remained friends with my husband but avoid her like the plague because she is a nut. My in-laws also refuse to have anything to do with her. I also had to get a restraining order against her and even her former best friend supported me and has now become a good friend of mine.

 

As for how they ended up pregnant, they are both older and their marriage occurred before HIV became widely known. I'm not sure how old you are but back in those days people (especially married couples) were not as strict about condom use. They had the birth control pill and a shot could cure most diseases. He had unprotected sex resulting in pregnancy after they were already married and after they had already agreed that they would not have any children. She simply stopped taking the pill because she wanted to get pregnant but never told him or gave him a say.

 

Even today, many married couples use the birth control pill as their chosen method of contraception. It is not some far-fetched cockamamie outlandish newfangled controversial idea. You couldn't possibly be advocating for married couples to use condoms on top of the pill because one of them might be lying about birth control use.

 

Frankly, I don't understand how or why any woman would consider it acceptable to trick a man into having a child she knows he does not want. It's horribly unfair to all parties involved including the child. By the way, my husband is a great and loving father.

 

 

I am 40+ and yes I do advocate each person in a marriage taking responsibility for birth control (feminist you know). Not only to discuss it before marriage but during as well. And my apologies for not reading your back story before responding to your post. I have dealt with more than a few crazies myself.

[girlwithglasses]

I am 40+ and yes I do advocate each person in a marriage taking responsibility for birth control (feminist you know). Not only to discuss it before marriage but during as well. And my apologies for not reading your back story before responding to your post. I have dealt with more than a few crazies myself.

 

No problem. Actually they were both also purportedly feminists and they did discuss birth control which is why he felt so disrespected and betrayed believing she had intentionally taken away his freedom of choice in the matter (which ironically is also a feminist value). I think he always resented her for it. If there is an upside to the story I guess it would be that he has grown tremendously from the experience as a man, a father and a husband.

[bentnotbroken]

ummm.... no offense to your husband, but if he didn't want to have kids, there's a simple surgical procedure that he could have had that would have prevented it ( pretty much foolproof, no pills required, but does not prevent the spread of std's)

 

 

When she said he described himself as "too lazy" to do the right thing about marriage, that spoke volumes for me. How do you be "too lazy" to not marry a person you don't want to marry:eek:? And he married the "easy lay":eek:

[Fallen Angel]

Yes I have spent sufficient time with her to confirm that she is crazier that a ****house rat. He divorced her so that she could be free to date her OM (who also happened to be a friend of his). The OM dumped her, however we have been very happily married for several years now. I am stepmother to their children and therefore I unfortunately get to deal with her on a somewhat regular basis. In the time we've been married I have also become close friends with several people who knew them as a married couple. They all remained friends with my husband but avoid her like the plague because she is a nut. My in-laws also refuse to have anything to do with her. I also had to get a restraining order against her and even her former best friend supported me and has now become a good friend of mine.

 

As for how they ended up pregnant, they are both older and their marriage occurred before HIV became widely known. I'm not sure how old you are but back in those days people (especially married couples) were not as strict about condom use. They had the birth control pill and a shot could cure most diseases. He had unprotected sex resulting in pregnancy after they were already married and after they had already agreed that they would not have any children. She simply stopped taking the pill because she wanted to get pregnant but never told him or gave him a say.

 

Even today, many married couples use the birth control pill as their chosen method of contraception. It is not some far-fetched cockamamie outlandish newfangled controversial idea. You couldn't possibly be advocating for married couples to use condoms on top of the pill because one of them might be lying about birth control use.

 

Frankly, I don't understand how or why any woman would consider it acceptable to trick a man into having a child she knows he does not want. It's horribly unfair to all parties involved including the child. By the way, my husband is a great and loving father.

 

So, just curious, exactly how many times did she trick him, the horrible conniving ****house rat!!! (?)

[girlwithglasses]

ummm.... no offense to your husband, but if he didn't want to have kids, there's a simple surgical procedure that he could have had that would have prevented it ( pretty much foolproof, no pills required, but does not prevent the spread of std's)

 

At the time, he did not think he needed that procedure because they had discussed the form of contraception they would use. After he realized that she had changed her mind about the use of that form of contraception he did, in fact, get a vasectomy.

 

When she said he described himself as "too lazy" to do the right thing about marriage, that spoke volumes for me. How do you be "too lazy" to not marry a person you don't want to marry:eek:? And he married the "easy lay":eek:

 

Yeah, by any definition he was extremely emotionally stunted and immature at the time. They both were. This all happened a long time ago and they were both young and stupid. The relationship started as a rebound hook up after his girlfriend (first love) moved away. He was brokenhearted and still very much in love with the girlfriend when he got married to XW. His rationale at the time was that he and XW had been together so long they "might as well get married." When I asked XW why she married him, she told me she knew he did not love her but it was time to get married, she didn't want to be an old maid, and her parents did not want her living in sin. They figured it would just work itself out. She thought he would eventually grow to love her. He thought he would eventually grow to love her. It never happened. Go figure... People get married for stupid reasons all the time and then bring children into their mess for good measure.

[Spoiled]

Wow, thank you!

 

While some of those issues certainly could have been said about our marriage, I hear a lot of PROJECTION!

 

What WS are criticizing their spouse's for, are many of the qualities I would have attributed to my WS pre-affair.

 

OM/OW, ever think about that?

 

What they blame their spouse's for might be the very behavior they are exhibiting in the marriage?

 

My xMM and I never bad mouthed our spouses. We both spoke of how they were good spouses, and good parents. We had experienced decreased excitement, attention, and intimacy in our marriages. Him stating how they rarely spent time together without their children due to her not wanting to be away from them was not bad mouthing her. I was her friend and spoke about that issue with her years prior to the A, nothing new and it was true. But he also admitted to his contribution of not listening and working too much. We were real with each other and did not portray our spouses to be awful or evil.

[NoIDidn't]

Nope, there was absolutely no competition in any of my As. I did not want their lives, so why should I compete? I figured that what I had was vastly superior to what [she] had, so what would I be competing for?

 

 

Okay, I fixed that for you. LOL.

 

You were competing. You just figured you already beat the competition by just being better and superior out the gate.

 

Not my words. You said them yourself. See above.

[NoIDidn't]

I didn't consider that my H had said anything negative about me after I found out about the A.

 

But when the first words out of the OW's mouth when I called her were "I don't know your side", I was clued in immediately.

 

Of course, my H swears he didn't say anything bad about me. But he also said "I don't remember", ALOT. LOL.

 

Its all part and parcel of affairs if you ask me. To me, saying that his W doesn't like to go out without the kids, is saying "she's too afraid to leave the kids behind so we can be alone. Its like she just doesn't want to be alone with me anymore". When, it could be that she just doesn't feel comfortable leaving the kids with a babysitter (past experience, maybe?). It may be true, but it doesn't paint the person in a good light.

 

I have no idea of what my H said to her about me. And likewise, she has no idea of what he said to me about her. So, I'd say we're about even.

[anne1707]

Of course, my H swears he didn't say anything bad about me. But he also said "I don't remember", ALOT. LOL.

 

 

It is quite possible that he did not say anything bad. I did not say anything bad about my H - there was nothing bad to say. However at times I would not answer the ex-OM's questions so he may be used that to come to his own conclusions. It was always the ex-OM who raised the subject of the state of my marriage and what things were like between my H and I. I did not want to talk to him about any of this - it was a betrayal too far in my books.

 

Hindsight is a great thing. I can see that the ex-OM was trying to compete with my H . Thankfully I am (still) with the better man.

[Hazyhead]

I'm glad you and your man got your happy ending. It's nice to read these stories in amongst all the traumatic heartbreaking ones.

 

One thing though, I can understand how someone can be tricked into having a child if he believes his wife is on the pill... but you say he has children - plural? So he was tricked more than once? That's kinda careless. I agree with FS - it's not solely the woman's responsibility. Or, he must be an incredibly trusting man given how awful his wife was.

[skywriter]

hmmm... could "easy" be a double entendre here...

 

i'm sorry, but this situation sounds like the punchline of a bad joke...

 

" he was so lazy"...'how lazy was he?'

 

" so lazy he married a total beast of a woman because he was too lazy to say "no"..."

 

 

Okay, I'll admit it, that was just about the WORST joke ever ( it's even worse than some of my ' how many (whatevers) does it take to screw in a light bulb ' jokes

 

 

 

frozensprout you're a hoot! You've made my day!

[Spark1111]

Hmmmm....interesting turn of events here folks!

 

I too became pregnant before marriage. Wanted the baby (had a career by then) but remained unsure if I wanted the marriage, not because I didn't love him (I did). I remained unsure if that was marrying a person for the "right" reasons.

 

My parents did not have a great marriage and I remained unsure, not of the man, but of the institution.

 

Okay, so he pursues me relentlessly to marry him and I do. I feel safe with him. It all good. I never looked back, but I think he did, and with some regrets, too.

 

So.....I think here was another line:

 

I only married my wife because she was pregnant. It was the right thing to do.

 

To quote my friend 2sure:

 

"See? It makes him look like a victim and a hero and the same time."

 

What a prince OF A MAN!

[White Flower]

Hmmmm....interesting turn of events here folks!

 

I too became pregnant before marriage. Wanted the baby (had a career by then) but remained unsure if I wanted the marriage, not because I didn't love him (I did). I remained unsure if that was marrying a person for the "right" reasons.

 

My parents did not have a great marriage and I remained unsure, not of the man, but of the institution.

 

Okay, so he pursues me relentlessly to marry him and I do. I feel safe with him. It all good. I never looked back, but I think he did, and with some regrets, too.

 

So.....I think here was another line:

 

I only married my wife because she was pregnant. It was the right thing to do.

 

To quote my friend 2sure:

 

"See? It makes him look like a victim and a hero and the same time."

 

What a prince OF A MAN!

I think all MM need to show themselved in that light in order to get the OW to cross the line in the first place. Sad, but true.

[bentnotbroken]

I think all MM need to show themselved in that light in order to get the OW to cross the line in the first place. Sad, but true.

 

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a t-shirt that says, "I'm married...and it's bad":laugh::laugh:

[jennie-jennie]

I think all MM need to show themselved in that light in order to get the OW to cross the line in the first place. Sad, but true.

 

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a t-shirt that says, "I'm married...and it's bad":laugh::laugh:

 

My MM told me in his first email that he was happily married. He has always spoken well of his wife. I believe she is a good woman.

 

Still he fell in love with me (for the second time in his life) and it turns out that our relationship has shown him a depth he did not know was possible.

 

I am the same person I was with my exSO. I just think that some combinations of man/woman make a deeper connection possible than other combinations. Doesn't mean that anything is/was "wrong" with the old partners.

[OWoman]

Okay, I fixed that for you. LOL.

 

You were competing. You just figured you already beat the competition by just being better and superior out the gate.

 

Not my words. You said them yourself. See above.

 

Nope - I didn't say I was better. I said what I had was better - better for me. I didn't want a full-time R with some dude in my face all the time, and I sure as hell didn't want one dude only when I could have the infinite variety of a different guy each time, if that was what I wanted. I saw the full-time R / M scenario as the worst kind of prison sentence (I'd been M before, and was very pleased to have escaped) and it certainly wasn't what I wanted. They (all the BWs) were welcome to it! I was certainly not going to compete with them for it! It just wasn't what I wanted.

 

So no - there was no competition.

 

ETA - I didn't mean "she" in that post you quoted; I meant "they", as I was speaking collectively about all the BWs whose MMs I was, ahem, dabbling in...