What did your ap say or imply about their spouse and marriage?

[OWoman]

Yes I have spent sufficient time with her to confirm that she is crazier that a ****house rat. He divorced her so that she could be free to date her OM (who also happened to be a friend of his). The OM dumped her, however we have been very happily married for several years now. I am stepmother to their children and therefore I unfortunately get to deal with her on a somewhat regular basis. In the time we've been married I have also become close friends with several people who knew them as a married couple. They all remained friends with my husband but avoid her like the plague because she is a nut. My in-laws also refuse to have anything to do with her. I also had to get a restraining order against her and even her former best friend supported me and has now become a good friend of mine.

 

As for how they ended up pregnant, they are both older and their marriage occurred before HIV became widely known. I'm not sure how old you are but back in those days people (especially married couples) were not as strict about condom use. They had the birth control pill and a shot could cure most diseases. He had unprotected sex resulting in pregnancy after they were already married and after they had already agreed that they would not have any children. She simply stopped taking the pill because she wanted to get pregnant but never told him or gave him a say.

 

Even today, many married couples use the birth control pill as their chosen method of contraception. It is not some far-fetched cockamamie outlandish newfangled controversial idea. You couldn't possibly be advocating for married couples to use condoms on top of the pill because one of them might be lying about birth control use.

 

Frankly, I don't understand how or why any woman would consider it acceptable to trick a man into having a child she knows he does not want. It's horribly unfair to all parties involved including the child. By the way, my husband is a great and loving father.

 

 

Apart from the RO and some other minor details, this could be my H's xW

[White Flower]

My MM told me in his first email that he was happily married. He has always spoken well of his wife. I believe she is a good woman.

 

Still he fell in love with me (for the second time in his life) and it turns out that our relationship has shown him a depth he did not know was possible.

 

I am the same person I was with my exSO. I just think that some combinations of man/woman make a deeper connection possible than other combinations. Doesn't mean that anything is/was "wrong" with the old partners.

I agree with you and felt I had that with my MM. Deep love, wild chemistry, and an unexplainable connection. However, I do feel that lies were told and truths were implied in order to hook me in. He was nice about his W, but said he was unhappy. Turns out he was pretty happy.

[Spoiled]

I didn't consider that my H had said anything negative about me after I found out about the A.

 

But when the first words out of the OW's mouth when I called her were "I don't know your side", I was clued in immediately.

 

Of course, my H swears he didn't say anything bad about me. But he also said "I don't remember", ALOT. LOL.

 

Its all part and parcel of affairs if you ask me. To me, saying that his W doesn't like to go out without the kids, is saying "she's too afraid to leave the kids behind so we can be alone. Its like she just doesn't want to be alone with me anymore". When, it could be that she just doesn't feel comfortable leaving the kids with a babysitter (past experience, maybe?). It may be true, but it doesn't paint the person in a good light.

 

I have no idea of what my H said to her about me. And likewise, she has no idea of what he said to me about her. So, I'd say we're about even.

 

His W and I were friends. I know her reasons for not wanting to leave the children but neither of us felt it was bad on her part. It was simply one reason they did not spend much quality time together. Which in turn, can create distance within a M.

 

I prefer not to leave my children either. But always made special efforts to put them to bed at a decent hour so we could spend time together. However, my H chose to do other things during that time.

 

No, and you never will know what all he said about you. But, do not assume it was bad. If not wanting to leave the kids is the worse thing he could say, that's good.

[Spoiled]

My MM told me in his first email that he was happily married. He has always spoken well of his wife. I believe she is a good woman.

 

Still he fell in love with me (for the second time in his life) and it turns out that our relationship has shown him a depth he did not know was possible.

 

I am the same person I was with my exSO. I just think that some combinations of man/woman make a deeper connection possible than other combinations. Doesn't mean that anything is/was "wrong" with the old partners.

 

Very likely. My xMM's W and I were friends, I knew she was an awesome person. And he friends with my H. If anything, I withheld negativity about my H because I never wanted to influence his perception of him.

[fooled once]

Yes I have spent sufficient time with her to confirm that she is crazier that a ****house rat. He divorced her so that she could be free to date her OM (who also happened to be a friend of his). The OM dumped her, however we have been very happily married for several years now. I am stepmother to their children and therefore I unfortunately get to deal with her on a somewhat regular basis. In the time we've been married I have also become close friends with several people who knew them as a married couple. They all remained friends with my husband but avoid her like the plague because she is a nut. My in-laws also refuse to have anything to do with her. I also had to get a restraining order against her and even her former best friend supported me and has now become a good friend of mine.

 

As for how they ended up pregnant, they are both older and their marriage occurred before HIV became widely known. I'm not sure how old you are but back in those days people (especially married couples) were not as strict about condom use. They had the birth control pill and a shot could cure most diseases. He had unprotected sex resulting in pregnancy after they were already married and after they had already agreed that they would not have any children. She simply stopped taking the pill because she wanted to get pregnant but never told him or gave him a say.

 

Even today, many married couples use the birth control pill as their chosen method of contraception. It is not some far-fetched cockamamie outlandish newfangled controversial idea. You couldn't possibly be advocating for married couples to use condoms on top of the pill because one of them might be lying about birth control use.

 

Frankly, I don't understand how or why any woman would consider it acceptable to trick a man into having a child she knows he does not want. It's horribly unfair to all parties involved including the child. By the way, my husband is a great and loving father.

 

If someone doesn't love their spouse, they aren't screwing them. If someone doesn't trust or want to be with their spouse, they divorce them.

 

He chose to have sex with the spouse he claimed to hate.

 

Of course all the friends are going to blame her -- he couldn't possibly have done anything wrong. He married her because he wanted to; no one put a gun to his head.

 

I chose NOT to have sex with my ex husband while married -- because I couldn't the last year we were together because I didn't love him nor did I want him to touch me. Obviously your now H didn't have a problem touching his ex wife. He should OWN what he did (have sex and marry his ex) instead of shifting blame. And quite honestly, instead of hating her and blaming her for making your now H have sex with her and marry her -- put it behind you and realize at one point he must have loved her or cared about her because he married her and had sex (multiple times) with her. Just accept it. Makes life easier. That is what comes with marrying a man who was married previously. Everyone has someone in their past -- instead of hating that person and blaming them, let it go.

 

Also, if he felt tricked with one pregnancy --- why did he continue to have sex and make more children? I mean, if she did "trick" him, wouldn't he have been smarter to stop having sex with her??

[OWoman]

If someone doesn't love their spouse, they aren't screwing them.

 

You've only ever had sex with people you love? Gosh! We do live in very different worlds!

 

I choose to have sex with people who excite me, arouse me, whom I lust after and desire.

 

I choose as friends people I love and respect.

 

Until my current H, these groups were entirely separate. The idea of sex with a friend seems incestuous to me, as repugnant as paedophilia or bestiality.

 

I certainly didn't love my first H, but I continued to have sex with him until I got tired of it and moved out.

 

 

If someone doesn't trust or want to be with their spouse, they divorce them.

 

In the ideal world, sure - but that's not always the case. Read other forums here and you'll see just how many Ms are riddled with mistrust or hostility... but they persist, if only in the short / medium term. Some even longer. My own parents stayed together "for the kids" despite intense hostility between them for decades - and then split. My H suppressed his negative feelings about his xW, convincing himself that he cared, and that their M was "normal", for decades too, before counselling, the A and the concerted efforts of friends and family convinced him that he was merely perpetuating the damage and doing his kids no favours.

[jennie-jennie]

I certainly didn't love my first H, but I continued to have sex with him until I got tired of it and moved out.

 

I'll second that. Sex is the last thing in a relationship that I let go off. I continued to have sex with my first SO half-a-year after I ended our relationship, with my second SO 1 1/2 years after I started up with MM - MM and I were long distance but I wanted my sex so my exSO had to do.

 

Gosh, FO, I thought you believed all MP had sex with their spouses, whether they admitted it or not. Now it turns out you yourself didn't?

[WalkInThePark]

xMM was realistic about his W. Said he had loved her a lot, still loved her but was no longer happy in his M because W was depressed and not dynamic anymore (compared to how she was in the beginning of their M). Sex was good in the beginning of the M but had been declining. He said that if sex was the only issue, he would have D her a long time ago. For him the fact that they have a disabled child is the big issue in their M and if it was not for that child, they would be happy. I have my doubts about that, I think that if it would not have been this child, W would have found another reason to be unhappy.

 

xMM is convinced he can make W happy again and therefore he wants to give the M another try. And he is doing all kind of (external) changes for that: move to another city, make sure his W does not have any stress at all in her life (so not even her parttime job at home anymore). I personally think that all this won't really help unless his W - finally - takes responsibility for her own life and happiness. But xMM desperately wants to "save" her and make her happy. I personally think his W is a spoiled brat who cannot accept that there is one thing in her life that has not gone according to plan. And xMM somehow realizes this and admits it but he cannot give up the dream of making things better.

 

His description of his W and their M is realistic and balanced. He is not badmouthing her but not painting a rosy picture either. I don't think his W is a bad person and I am sure she is not mean or nasty with him. But that is probably part of the problem because it is way easier to leave someone who is really behaving badly rather than someone who is nice but with whom you have lost the spark.

[GreenEyedLady]

How did you come to that conclusion? Maybe you know him better than I do?? Or perhaps you know her?

 

Maybe I'm just better at interpreting behavior?

 

No one marries someone because they are too lazy: they marry someone because they want to. If they're that lazy, they don't get married. It takes far more work to get married than to do nothing.

 

I think you should be worried here. If you're allowing him to excuse his rather rotten behavior with flimsy excuses, don't be surprised if one day he tells his next OW he married you for a dumb*** excuse. He's not being accountable or taking responsibility. That doesn't sound well for you.

 

GEL

[fooled once]

You've only ever had sex with people you love? Gosh! We do live in very different worlds!

 

I choose to have sex with people who excite me, arouse me, whom I lust after and desire.

 

I choose as friends people I love and respect.

 

Until my current H, these groups were entirely separate. The idea of sex with a friend seems incestuous to me, as repugnant as paedophilia or bestiality.

 

I certainly didn't love my first H, but I continued to have sex with him until I got tired of it and moved out.

 

In the ideal world, sure - but that's not always the case. Read other forums here and you'll see just how many Ms are riddled with mistrust or hostility... but they persist, if only in the short / medium term. Some even longer. My own parents stayed together "for the kids" despite intense hostility between them for decades - and then split. My H suppressed his negative feelings about his xW, convincing himself that he cared, and that their M was "normal", for decades too, before counselling, the A and the concerted efforts of friends and family convinced him that he was merely perpetuating the damage and doing his kids no favours.

 

LOL - sorry OW, I didn't finish my thought --- what I meant was, if you claim you don't love your spouse, why are you having sex with them? I did have sex with people I didn't love, but I didn't marry someone I didn't love.

 

I completely agree with you that if two people are so unhappy in their marriage, staying for the kids does MORE damage than divorce. My own mother dealt with this with her parents. She was very happy they finally divorced. Her parents both remarried and all 4 of them hung out. My biograndparents made better friends than spouses.

[tami-chan]

What did you ap say or imply about their spouse and marriage

 

My xAP said that they ( his wife and he) were living parallel lives and that they have accepted the fact the they were no longer in love with each other. I believe him as, I myself, did not have a conventional marriage, although it was a good partnership.

 

My xAP did not bad mouth his now-exW. Neither did I bad mouth my stbxh to him. I have this nagging feeling that some BSs here would like for their WSs to have bad mouth them to their APs, why? Strange, because many really don't or have not.

 

Regarding competition: While this may be true to some, it is not true to many. I was never in competition with my xAP's wife. As a matter of fact, if she had met me, I think she would have understood why her husband was in love with me.

[Spoiled]

My xAP said that they ( his wife and he) were living parallel lives and that they have accepted the fact the they were no longer in love with each other. I believe him as, I myself, did not have a conventional marriage, although it was a good partnership.

 

My xAP did not bad mouth his now-exW. Neither did I bad mouth my stbxh to him. I have this nagging feeling that some BSs here would like for their WSs to have bad mouth them to their APs, why? Strange, because many really don't or have not.

 

Regarding competition: While this may be true to some, it is not true to many. I was never in competition with my xAP's wife. As a matter of fact, if she had met me, I think she would have understood why her husband was in love with me.

 

I like that...............

[polksaladannie]

My AP has been very honest from the get go, stating that he will never leave his W or child. And that is why I tend to believe him when he share info about his home life with me. Some things he has said:

 

"My wife is like Laura Ingalls(in bed)"

"I am no longer attracted to my wife."

"My wife is very needy"

"We're like brother and sister"

 

He describes her as being very goodnatured, though. She does not strike me as someone who could easily fall into another relationship for a number of reasons, and I think that my AP knows this, hence one of the reasons he sticks around. I think that he feels sorry for her.

[Holding-On]

I have picked up on some things like that as well. Though he has never come out and said "she doesn't take care of me" ie cook, clean etc. he has gone home and talked to me while doing his laundry, cooking his own dinner etc, even though she is there, and he has been gone working sometimes for a week or more.

 

I know he stopped at his house one night to get some clean clothes for work (he was coming to stay at my house that night). She had known that he was going to be coming home for an hour or so , and when he got there (after working a 12 hr day) she had prepared dinner for herself and their child, but had not made anything for him.

 

By the time he got to my house (it is about an hr drive between his house and my home) I had put together a homemade lasagne (sp?) and had it almost ready to come out of the oven when he walked in my door and was met with a kiss and a cold burbon and coke.

 

I know he is not used to being "taken care of", often being shocked when I do something like do his laundry, get up early to make him breakfast before he leaves for work, or buying him something I have heard him say that he likes. (simple things like his favorite coffee brand, or candy bar.)

 

So without saying it, he is implying that she doesn't "take care of him" the way that I do.. simply because he seems so genuinely shocked that someone would do those little things for him, without expecting something in return.

 

so.... let me get this straight. She, apparently??, DIDN'T work 12 hours. She just lay around the house? Went to the spa?

If she works out of the house also, then she picked up the child, made the kid's supper, helped the kid with homework (or if very young, read the stories, bathed, put to bed, got his/hers clothes picked out for the next day, made his/her lunch for the next day and ON and ON).

If she was home with the kid all day then I assure you that she was working for 12 hours on top of that and probably DYING for him to get home and relieve her so she could just, you know, pee by herself.

 

And her reward for doing all the drudge work that goes into THEIR child....???

To have him go out again to play with you so that she is stuck at home with the kid.

And for you to criticize her for not having a negligee and bourbon in one hand.

WEIRD

 

And for the record, I was the OW.

I've also been a SAHM (stay at home mom)

and am currently a WOHM (work out of home mom)

 

I'm also in an open marriage. I can tell you, when I am hanging out with my boyfriend on my date night, I'm EXTREMELY grateful to my husband for taking care of the children and the house on that night.

The difference is that he gets his own date nights.

 

When exactly does your MM take care of the kid so that she can go out get some good new exciting sex and flowers, supper and so forth at the hands of her boyfriend?? hmmm?

 

okay you really struck a nerve!!

lol

[Spark1111]

Interesting point!

 

While he is out perhaps complaining about the lack of attention I am showing him, let's see:

 

I was working two jobs, doing laundry, cooking, cleaning, taking care of my elderly parent, his sick father, the banking, bills, moving children in and out of college, hosting graduation parties, attending friend and family functions.

 

He, under the guise of a new high-powered position, was travelling often, late night dinner meetings, etc. I let him be, as lonely as I was, because I thought it was good for him and ultimately, good for us. He had grown so depressed while out of work for so long.

 

I would not discover her existence for almost two years during this time.

 

Two initial blinks for me at DDAY:

 

I am amazed I DID NOT have an affair during this time, because I received not attention, no kindness, no validation for all my efforts on behalf of us, for a very long time.

 

If he did not complain about me, more power to the man I thought I knew.

 

But he definitely wasn't singing my praises either! Jeez I worked hard to keep home and hearth together to support him in his new endeavor.

 

Second thought, when I found out she was a single mom of ONE child: Wow, every other weekend she is home ALONE as her child goes to her xH!

 

I'd be running around naked answering the door with a bourbon in my hand too!:bunny:

[girlwithglasses]

Maybe I'm just better at interpreting behavior?

 

No one marries someone because they are too lazy: they marry someone because they want to. If they're that lazy, they don't get married. It takes far more work to get married than to do nothing.

 

I think you should be worried here. If you're allowing him to excuse his rather rotten behavior with flimsy excuses, don't be surprised if one day he tells his next OW he married you for a dumb*** excuse. He's not being accountable or taking responsibility. That doesn't sound well for you.

 

GEL

 

:lmao:

 

I find it hilarious that you presume to lecture me on interpreting behaviour. Didn't your husband lie to you and claim he was not married when you first started seeing him? I guess your superior behaviour interpretation skills must have been off that day. You can't interpret your own husband's behaviour that took place right in front of your eyes yet you presume to interpret my husbands behaviour of 25 years ago with no knowledge of either of us. With all due respect, I humbly decline the unsolicited advice.

 

We all have our deal breakers. My husband was an emotional idiot 25 years ago, and apparently that is a dealbreaker for you. Your husband, on the other hand, is a liar and that is a dealbreaker for me. Perhaps you should be worried.

 

I absolutely lose no sleep over the idea that my husband may one day leave me for some other woman. I had a full and satisfying life before I met him and should he ever choose to leave I will continue to have a full life. He is not now, nor has he ever been my end all and be all. He is my partner and my best friend but he is not God. If he leaves I will survive.

 

Lazy may have been a poor choice of words but the fact remains that my husband ended up in a marriage that he never wanted. I am going to assume that you are American (I may be wrong but to be frank, every time I have met someone who believes that their own value system is the universal norm, that person turned out to be an American.) It may surpise you to know that there are literally millions of people in cultures around the world who do not get married to the same reasons that most Americans get married. There are families where the wishes of the parents ultimately determine who marries who. My husband was pressured into his marriage by a family that had such ideas about marriage and he was too emotionally immature to do the right thing and walk away. He was not willing or able to do the emotioanl work necessary to walk away.

 

I, myself, almost married a man I did not want to marry when I was about the same age DH was when he married XW. I dated the guy and liked him but I didn't want to marry him. The parents exerted a tremendous amount of pressure. His parents even bought us an apartment to start our married life. My mother and his mother planned the entire wedding with very little input from me. I literally had to flee the country to get out of marrying him and my mother didn't speak to me for years afterward. So yes, people do get married even if they don't really want to. It happens all the time.

 

Here is what you wrote in early 2008:

 

Sometimes it does happen...

This is to all the women/men in difficult situations...

 

No matter what people say, sometimes it works out...Sometimes the M is irreparable....Sometimes people grow apart or never were in love at all...

 

Sometimes you meet the one for you at the wrong time...

 

And sometimes when people really love each other, they do what it takes to make things right...

 

This is not to give anyone false hope. This is to say that it does happen. It's happened for me.

 

Don't ever settle for less, no matter what. Love always finds a way.

 

GEL

 

It worked out for me. My husband's first marriage was a mistake and as you yourself noted sometimes happens, he was never in love. We are happy. So rather than worry as you recommend, I will instead continue to enjoy the wonderful life my husband and I have created together.

Edited January 22, 2010 by girlwithglasses

[girlwithglasses]

Blameshift much?

 

Your H married his XW for the same reason he married you: HE WANTED TO.

 

No wonder she became a ball-busting bitch...He apparently DESERVED IT!

 

GEL

 

My husband and I are still paying for therapy for his son because, among other things, when he was a young teenager and first started dating, XW used to make fun of the size of his penis when she got angry and call him names like "little d!ck" "pencil d!ck" and "d!ckless wonder"

 

So tell me... you think the kid deserved to have his balls busted too? Or just my husband?

 

GEL you know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about what happened in my husband's previous marriage or why it happened.

[girlwithglasses]

So, just curious, exactly how many times did she trick him, the horrible conniving ****house rat!!! (?)

 

Since you appear to be the resident smart @ss I'm sure you will be able to figure this out. Here is a clue: The age difference between my husband's children is measured in minutes rather than years.

 

Take all the time you need...

[Got it]

Outside of saying they were leading parallel lives, talking about the affair she had had years ago, etc honestly there wasn't much (negative) he said. Sure were there moments when he would get a text that would piss him off and he would ask why she was doing x, y, or z. But no nothing really outside the norm. Always said she was a good mom. I know she doesn't believe that, so I am assuming she must have had some negative things about him when she had her affair, but really he didn't do it.

[Fallen Angel]

so.... let me get this straight. She, apparently??, DIDN'T work 12 hours. She just lay around the house? Went to the spa?

If she works out of the house also, then she picked up the child, made the kid's supper, helped the kid with homework (or if very young, read the stories, bathed, put to bed, got his/hers clothes picked out for the next day, made his/her lunch for the next day and ON and ON).

If she was home with the kid all day then I assure you that she was working for 12 hours on top of that and probably DYING for him to get home and relieve her so she could just, you know, pee by herself.

 

And her reward for doing all the drudge work that goes into THEIR child....???

To have him go out again to play with you so that she is stuck at home with the kid.

And for you to criticize her for not having a negligee and bourbon in one hand.

WEIRD

 

And for the record, I was the OW.

I've also been a SAHM (stay at home mom)

and am currently a WOHM (work out of home mom)

 

I'm also in an open marriage. I can tell you, when I am hanging out with my boyfriend on my date night, I'm EXTREMELY grateful to my husband for taking care of the children and the house on that night.

The difference is that he gets his own date nights.

 

When exactly does your MM take care of the kid so that she can go out get some good new exciting sex and flowers, supper and so forth at the hands of her boyfriend?? hmmm?

 

okay you really struck a nerve!!

lol

 

LMAO.. I haven't read this thread in awhile...

 

since the child in question is 15.. none of that applies. LMAO.. good try though

 

Oh, and no, she has BETTER than bankers hrs. No 12 hr days for her, not even close.

[Fallen Angel]

Interesting point!

 

While he is out perhaps complaining about the lack of attention I am showing him, let's see:

 

I was working two jobs, doing laundry, cooking, cleaning, taking care of my elderly parent, his sick father, the banking, bills, moving children in and out of college, hosting graduation parties, attending friend and family functions.

 

He, under the guise of a new high-powered position, was travelling often, late night dinner meetings, etc. I let him be, as lonely as I was, because I thought it was good for him and ultimately, good for us. He had grown so depressed while out of work for so long.

 

I would not discover her existence for almost two years during this time.

 

Two initial blinks for me at DDAY:

 

I am amazed I DID NOT have an affair during this time, because I received not attention, no kindness, no validation for all my efforts on behalf of us, for a very long time.

 

If he did not complain about me, more power to the man I thought I knew.

 

But he definitely wasn't singing my praises either! Jeez I worked hard to keep home and hearth together to support him in his new endeavor.

 

Second thought, when I found out she was a single mom of ONE child: Wow, every other weekend she is home ALONE as her child goes to her xH!

 

I'd be running around naked answering the door with a bourbon in my hand too!:bunny:

Again, in my case, this does not apply to me.

 

I am a single mother of three children, aged 16, 11 and 6.

 

I do not get child support, so I work to support my kids and myself on my own.

 

I do laundry, clean the house, cook the meals, do all the banking, pay all the bills, work a job, attend chorus, ROTC events, school plays, parent/teacher conferences.. volunteer at a few local non-profits.

 

I have a very busy life. I get no weekends off, as my ex-H is MIA since the divorce.

 

Yet, I still manage to make the time to show the man I love, that I love him. And sometimes that means meeting him at the door with a bourbon and coke after he has had a long, hard day at work, and while I do it with sweet kisses and tender caresses, i have yet to do it naked.. as the kids would probably find that quite disgusting and disturbing... lmao!

[Fallen Angel]

Since you appear to be the resident smart @ss I'm sure you will be able to figure this out. Here is a clue: The age difference between my husband's children is measured in minutes rather than years.

 

Take all the time you need...

 

Didn't take me anytime at all, to decide that you are being less than truthful... lmao.. Had his children been twins, you would have stated that in your first post.. why? simply because that would have ment more credence to your 'he was trapped by this crazy b*tch' theory....

 

But say whatever you need to say.. cause you know the truth.. and I would be willing to bet money on the fact that there was more than one pregnancy involved in his marriage.