Wondering if it is over or if I am being unfair

[WalkInThePark]

The kids have always been attached to their mom, and she to them. My oldest is 7 and she still sleeps in his bed with him (alternating with my youngest i imagine) while I sleep alone.

 

This is totally wrong. What does your MC therapist say about this? Your W has stopped being your partner, she is now only a mom.

Does she have enough help with the kids, with the household. Does she work? Maybe you should help her so that there is more time for you as a couple. But if she does not want couple time, the situation is pretty hopeless.

It wouldn't be the first woman who basically uses her H as a sperm donor...

[drpepper43]

I saw somewhere that he told his wife that he was friendly with a woman. I didn't see that he told his wife that he was vulnerable to having an affair with the friend, and if not with her, then with someone else. I may have missed this of course.

 

I have told my wife:

 

a) that she has become my primary outlet to discuss our marriage problems

b) that I felt "abnormally close" to her, and "closer than I should be"

c) that until we figured out how to spend time together, that it just meant more time with this activity and this women, which was likely just to drive us further apart

d) that I felt like I was an "affair waiting to happen" on a day when I felt particularly weak

e) that I felt like we were lost because she would not be able to compete with this woman because we have no common interests to spend time together, and she represented a chance to have a partner that wanted to spend time doing fun things with me.

 

LOL, and to add a little humor into this, my friend has a southern accent and my wife on more than one occasion has said, "You must be hanging around your friend too much, you just said 'ya'll'!"

 

I do not know that I really said ya'll but clearly she is not a secret.

[drpepper43]

This is totally wrong. What does your MC therapist say about this? Your W has stopped being your partner, she is now only a mom.

Does she have enough help with the kids, with the household. Does she work? Maybe you should help her so that there is more time for you as a couple. But if she does not want couple time, the situation is pretty hopeless.

It wouldn't be the first woman who basically uses her H as a sperm donor...

 

I agree... MC tells her she should be sleeping with me.

 

Last night was a case in point.

 

As I mentioned I really hate watching TV for long stretches, but we had basically the entire "Mentalist" season 2 on DVR unwatched. It was New Years Eve, so I felt like it'd be a nice to spend time however she wanted to as a couple. We watched 2 shows. I asked to watch a third, she said she was too tired.

 

As we are going up the bedroom, my youngest boy shouted "Mama, you need to sleep with me now."

 

I was chuckling to myself because I'm thinking, "really? this kid stayed up almost 3 hours waiting for something that isn't going to happen. LOL"

 

My wife shouted back, "I'll be down in a minute."

 

I did not say anything last night - no sense in starting a fight - but this afternoon I confronted her and was told that I was inconsiderate as she did that because she had a cold and did not want to be a loud sleeper and keep me up. Big fight. Walls go up more, and I continue to gather stuff as I move closer to an eventual separation. Sigh.

 

To answer your other question: Per MC's suggestion I have been doing more around the house. Today I took my boys bowling with her, I gave her a backrub, and I took down all the Christmas decorations and vacuumed so she could wake up from a nap to a clean house.

[Susmay]

I have told my wife:

 

a) that she has become my primary outlet to discuss our marriage problems

b) that I felt "abnormally close" to her, and "closer than I should be"

c) that until we figured out how to spend time together, that it just meant more time with this activity and this women, which was likely just to drive us further apart

d) that I felt like I was an "affair waiting to happen" on a day when I felt particularly weak

e) that I felt like we were lost because she would not be able to compete with this woman because we have no common interests to spend time together, and she represented a chance to have a partner that wanted to spend time doing fun things with me.

 

LOL, and to add a little humor into this, my friend has a southern accent and my wife on more than one occasion has said, "You must be hanging around your friend too much, you just said 'ya'll'!"

 

I do not know that I really said ya'll but clearly she is not a secret.

 

OK thanks for answering.

 

Two big questions:

 

1. Does your wife mind if you have sex with someone else?

 

2. If she does mind, does your wife trust you not to?

 

If she doesn't care whether you are faithful then there's not much you can do about it.

 

If she cares but trusts you not to be unfaithful, then you have a similar problem to what happened in my marriage. You will devastate her if you have an affair and sadly in my opinion in order to get her to understand how serious this is for you, you may have to dent her trust in you somewhat, by explicitly telling her.

 

It is a terrible position to be in and I can see why many husbands prefer to have the affair, leave, or live in misery rather than admit to being untrustworthy. As a wife who's been through it though, I know I would have preferred to know exactly the score; and that every day was a day he was feeling "particularly weak". It would have been the lesser of 2 evils.

[Susmay]

Just by the way I think the issue of kids being unable to sleep without a parent is (and should be) a different matter to your marital problems. Unless it is being used by your wife specifically to avoid sleeping with you; that's not clear to me from what you've said. There are many mothers/parents who are very uncomfortable at the thought of leaving their kids alone and distressed at night.

 

There are plenty of tried and true methods about getting kids to sleep on their own. They all take some time and patience and don't usually mean going cold turkey which is very upsetting for children and parents alike. Assuming you and your wife agree that the boys should be sleeping in their own beds alone at night (do you both agree on this by the way?) then why not explore these options?

 

Your oldest son at 7 is old enough to appreciate a reward system and possibly your youngest is too. It needs to be explained to them too what the purpose of it is. You may feel like you're bribing them but if it's a win-win for all, why worry?

[HeyThere]

Dr P.

 

You don’t need to do anything you’re not comfortable with.

 

People have many different ideas how to respond to your situation. This is a post by luvstarved from another thread I thought you’d appreciate.

 

“This is an open forum...of the caveat emptor nature.

 

It is not a group counseling session. Anyone who comes on here to post their issues needs to do so with the understanding that they are seeking input from a wide variety of people with a wide variety of viewpoints.

 

Confusion is pretty much a given with posters, myself included. That's largely why we post.

 

When I post, I am just casting a net...hoping to hear from people who have experienced similar, or felt similar...and looking for some nugget of wisdom to emerge that will help me understand my own situation and ideally, how to proceed in it.

 

There are definitely responses that are knee-jerk and consistent and not very thoughtful. He's cheating! She's a bitch! It is up to the poster to weed these out and hone in on what is really helpful and useful and rational.”

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

Edited January 2, 2010 by HeyThere

[HeyThere]

Just by the way I think the issue of kids being unable to sleep without a parent is (and should be) a different matter to your marital problems. Unless it is being used by your wife specifically to avoid sleeping with you; that's not clear to me from what you've said.

 

Susmay you obviously have not been following this thread - because that is clear from Dr P that it is the problem.

[Toodamnpragmatic]

Susmay you obviously have not been following this thread - because that is clear from Dr P that it is the problem.

 

and it is not properly addressed by either of them. Susmay is right that many families have this problem. How it is handled is incorrect. There is no reason to spend the entire night in the child's bedroom.

 

Dr. P, while I do empathize with him is sometimes very childish in his comments about it's me or the kids...... It is about your spouse's inability to treat you like a partner. Actually she treats you as the child who can sleep through the night, thus can be ignored....

[Susmay]

Susmay you obviously have not been following this thread - because that is clear from Dr P that it is the problem.

 

I am not a close observer of the situation so it is not quite so clear to me as it seems to be to you. Perhaps you personally know Dr P and his wife and are there every night at bedtime?

 

Seriously, we have only Dr P's perspective on this and it does seem he is becoming very frustrated and resentful at the situation and he's probably got good reason to be. We posters get to attribute motives to his wife but ultimately it is only speculation. For all we know the children are very insecure and Mrs P may simply be unable to just leave them for whatever reason.

 

Whatever the situation, surely it would be best that Dr and Mrs P communicate with each other not only about their marital problems but about the family sleeping arrangements too. It might be that the sleeping arrangements are fixed, only to find that the marital relationship does not change much. Sadly this is what happened to me. It was great that the kids started getting through the night on their own without their parents' input but that didn't "fix" our underlying problem.

[HeyThere]

I am not a close observer of the situation so it is not quite so clear to me as it seems to be to you. Perhaps you personally know Dr P and his wife and are there every night at bedtime?

 

Your response here is characteristic of a spouse threatened by the other in their life being an independent thinker. I’m responding to the original posters comments of his wife’s outstanding intimacy issues while using her children as a shield toward her husband. Of course there are always two sides to every story, but we are not privy to that here and I’m communicating on the info known.

 

Ideally Dr P and his wife would work their differences out, while communicating respect, care, and trust to each other. However, so far this is not the case.

 

In the case of the sons being 7 and 3 with the mother still sleeping with them and ignoring her husband; this represents serious psychological issues.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

[Susmay]

HeyThere to me[/b]:]

 

...Susmay you obviously have not been following this thread...

 

And later:

 

...Your response here is characteristic of a spouse threatened by the other in their life being an independent thinker.

 

Hmm HeyThere...

 

You seem to be giving out valuable advice to Dr P.

 

I'm not sure why you especially feel the need to discredit me and what I have to say. Whether or not I follow the thread to your satisfaction, whether or not I am threatened by my SO being an independent thinker and whether or not he even is an independent thinker should be totally irrelevant to you, Dr P, other posters and any advice/comments I post.

[Susmay]

...

In the case of the sons being 7 and 3 with the mother still sleeping with them and ignoring her husband; this represents serious psychological issues.

 

 

 

I disagree; at least I disagree that it is any sort of indication of serious psychological issues of the children. This sounds to me like something that has become a habit. Plenty of families have a "family bed". If the habit is damaging to the parents' relationship then I think we both agree they need to do something about it. They may however find that when this habit is altered they still have the same marital problems.

[HeyThere]

How many men are whipped? This thread is pertanant here, and applies to both sexes.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

[HeyThere]

I disagree; at least I disagree that it is any sort of indication of serious psychological issues of the children. This sounds to me like something that has become a habit. Plenty of families have a "family bed". If the habit is damaging to the parents' relationship then I think we both agree they need to do something about it. They may however find that when this habit is altered they still have the same marital problems.

 

Excuse me - issues of the parents, particular to the mother.

[drpepper43]

When I post, I am just casting a net...hoping to hear from people who have experienced similar, or felt similar...and looking for some nugget of wisdom to emerge that will help me understand my own situation and ideally, how to proceed in it.

 

Thanks so much. To be honest, what I have got listening to other perspectives has been amazingly valuable.

 

I have learned a lot and thank you and everyone else for the opinions.

[HeyThere]

Hmm HeyThere...

 

You seem to be giving out valuable advice to Dr P.

 

I'm not sure why you especially feel the need to discredit me and what I have to say. Whether or not I follow the thread to your satisfaction, whether or not I am threatened by my SO being an independent thinker and whether or not he even is an independent thinker should be totally irrelevant to you, Dr P, other posters and any advice/comments I post.

 

Being an independent thinker, and valued by your spouse or partner is critical to any relationship.

[drpepper43]

1. Does your wife mind if you have sex with someone else?

2. If she does mind, does your wife trust you not to?

 

1. My wife would be devastated if I had sex with someone else, and I respect her too much to do that.

 

2. I am pretty sure that she trusts me so much not to that it isn't even a possibility in her mind.

 

I think the difference is that I always have in the back of my mind that if I don't meet some base level of marital need, she will leave. I don't think she has that voice or understanding.

[drpepper43]

Dr. P, while I do empathize with him is sometimes very childish in his comments about it's me or the kids...... It is about your spouse's inability to treat you like a partner. Actually she treats you as the child who can sleep through the night, thus can be ignored....

 

Ouch, but point well taken.

[drpepper43]

Of course there are always two sides to every story, but we are not privy to that here and I’m communicating on the info known.

 

I wish I could tell you her side of the story to help.

 

Her biggest complaint lately is that "she can do nothing right".

 

This makes sense because until lately I have not challenged anything in the relationship - I have been too passive. Now I am challenging things and it is causing problems.

 

I think, especially after reading everything, you guys are right that I blame my kids for the sleeping thing when really, I am more angry since I've been adamant since day one that there should be no "family bed" and 7 years later I'm still struggling to get listened to. I bring up OW possibilities and it doesn't phase her. Etc. I just feel like I've been taken for granted in this relationship.

[Susmay]

1. My wife would be devastated if I had sex with someone else, and I respect her too much to do that.

 

2. I am pretty sure that she trusts me so much not to that it isn't even a possibility in her mind.

 

I think the difference is that I always have in the back of my mind that if I don't meet some base level of marital need, she will leave. I don't think she has that voice or understanding.

 

I'm fairly sure that my husband would have answered similarly prior to his affair even as to the bolded part.

 

However when an attractive married (therefore 'safe') woman offered herself to him on a plate, he was unable to resist. The respect he felt was just not enough to enable him to resist, in the belief that I was not willing to or unable to meet his desire for sex/affection/intimacy.

 

I read enough of their e-mails to each other to work out that he didn't intend to leave me and did not want me to ever find out. But of course I did find out and was completely devastated and trust was all but destroyed. It will be a long slow process to regain a functional level of trust in our marriage.

 

If he had been brutally honest with me about the possibility of an affair and with whom, then that would have caused dents in the level of trust in our relationship there's no doubt about that. But at the same time it would have been effective. Initially I didn't discover his infidelity and what I did find out (ie that he was sorely tempted to have an affair) was enough to "get me off my bum" and do something about fixing our marriage. It helped that he too was willing to put in the hard yards - as it sounds like you are Dr P.

 

With the benefit of hindsight we both agree that this would have been preferable to what actually happened and the destruction caused when I discovered his infidelity.

[HeyThere]

susmay, I’m so sorry to learn about the pain in your relationship.

 

Why loved ones sometimes act contrary to our wishes, is more than mindboggling.

 

I’m constantly telling my children (myself?) how important it is to feel good about ourselves. As parents we want our children to be well adjusted, self sufficient individuals. That message can be skewed based on whatever is happening in our own lives.

 

I’ve paperwork to get to, but here I am writing this post –go figure? Time to get back at it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Card carrying member of CRAP – Citizens Resisting Acronym Proliferation

Edited January 2, 2010 by HeyThere

[drpepper43]

I read enough of their e-mails to each other to work out that he didn't intend to leave me and did not want me to ever find out. But of course I did find out and was completely devastated and trust was all but destroyed. It will be a long slow process to regain a functional level of trust in our marriage.

 

Thanks Susmay, I am very sorry to hear about your situation... it will help to keep it in the back of my mind so I don't make the same mistakes. I thank you for sharing and hope things work out well for you.

[Susmay]

Thanks Susmay, I am very sorry to hear about your situation... it will help to keep it in the back of my mind so I don't make the same mistakes. I thank you for sharing and hope things work out well for you.

 

Thank you. If anyone else can take anything from my experience, it would make it all not quite so meaningless. Honest communication about what one wants and is tempted to do, can go a very long way in a marriage.

[Susmay]

susmay, I’m so sorry to learn about the pain in your relationship.

 

Why loved ones sometimes act contrary to our wishes, is more than mindboggling.

 

I’m constantly telling my children (myself?) how important it is to feel good about ourselves. As parents we want our children to be well adjusted, self sufficient individuals. That message can be skewed based on whatever is happening in our own lives.

 

I’ve paperwork to get to, but here I am writing this post –go figure? Time to get back at it.

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Card carrying member of CRAP – Citizens Resisting Acronym Proliferation

 

Thank you. I guess it gets really mind boggling when somebody acts contrary to their own expressed values and undertakings. It makes it very difficult to believe that there is real love and respect there.

[HeyThere]

Dr P

 

What is happening? Have you been keeping up with the How many men are whipped? thread?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.”

-- Eleanor Roosevelt

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Card carrying member of CRAP – Citizens Resisting Acronym Proliferation